NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

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ruleser
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby ruleser » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:58 pm

deleted to keep thread on topic
Last edited by ruleser on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby ruleser » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:59 pm

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Last edited by ruleser on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:00 pm

ruleser wrote:
Dwaterman86 wrote:why not a PHD in econ?

Blech: 1) most of what they teach in econ is hogwash (that is why this is happening to begin with), 2) I want to come up qualified to serve in a lawmaking capacity, not just write about the economy - the issues affecting the economy include social issues, econ, health, etc.



Fair enough. Well, I take it your goal is to end up in politics. So I guess a JD is as useful as any other degree.

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby ruleser » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:01 pm

deleting cuz this ended up hijacking thread

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soullesswonder
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby soullesswonder » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:47 pm

For everyone embracing the whole "buying a house at the top of the boom" trope, you should know that the greatest bubbles in housing occurred at the lower price tiers. So if the analogy holds, you would be better off investing in a T6 degree because it will retain more of its value in a down market. Check the Case-Shiller Index if you want a index breakdown by price tier.

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby coherentowst » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:56 pm

soullesswonder wrote:For everyone embracing the whole "buying a house at the top of the boom" trope, you should know that the greatest bubbles in housing occurred at the lower price tiers. So if the analogy holds, you would be better off investing in a T6 degree because it will retain more of its value in a down market. Check the Case-Shiller Index if you want a index breakdown by price tier.


Not interested in turning this into a real estate thread, but I will say that that bubble ain't done deflating. Check back with Case-Shiller in two years.

Now, of course it is better to invest in a T6 degree. My point was only that even the topmost schools will not be immune to the long-term deflation that I see coming in the legal field. Thinking "I will be immune because I'm going to Harvard instead of TT Law" is analagous to thinking "My house is immune to price declines because it's in Marin County instead of Riverside."

My point was also that this deflation will not be a temporary recession-induced event, but like the housing collapse will be a long-term phenomenon.

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby stacks » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:02 pm

My takeaway, if we're drawing an analogy to bubbles, is to take on the least amount of debt as possible.

Looking at dim prospects for employment is only looking at one side of the equation. YHS grads might be more employable in big law, but many students factored likely income in their cost-benefit analysis and now those projections at this point in time aren't holding up across the board due to the economic downturn.

The end result, at least in the short term, is that the income may not balance out loan debt and opportunity costs in the way that people thought. For someone like myself, looking to go INTO law school, I realize the landscape will likely change, but I've learned from the downturn not to take on excessive risks - even if it meant attending a lesser university in favor of less debt (ie, less risk)

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:17 pm

it is really ironic that when the economy starts going down the tubes, eeryone goes back to graduate and professional school. Take law school for instance. We have a 1L class this year and they are just so naive and "happy to be in law school" that it is a bit sickening. I am happy they are happy. Law school is a great place. But looking back, i think there should be some serious thought put into going straight through undergrad to law school and shouldering that debt. Big law jobs will not and are no longer a dime a dozen. Furthermore, people who say "things will get better" are right, to an extent. Our economy will recover, but ask any partner who knows economics, and he/she will tell you that big law will not be the runaway train that it once was for years to come. Competition-- especially now with the masses going back to school-- will only increase. Moreover, law firms will be quite skeptical of overhiring for a few years. And, to boot, with the masses going back to law school, quite frankly, many of them simply have no idea what the profession is like in a realistic since. They are still stuck on lala land where they think they will be changing the constitution and whathave you. Law is a business. It is not immune to market forces. Be prepared to make 50k, or dont go into law school. Period. I look at these 1Ls and i feel for them, because they jjust dont know how hard they will have to work to find a decent-paying job....it is quite sad. And it doesnt help that law schools are not honest about hiring prospects, so much so, that it borders on the unethical. And that is my .02

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby Erie Doctrine » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:it is really ironic that when the economy starts going down the tubes, eeryone goes back to graduate and professional school. Take law school for instance. We have a 1L class this year and they are just so naive and "happy to be in law school" that it is a bit sickening. I am happy they are happy. Law school is a great place. But looking back, i think there should be some serious thought put into going straight through undergrad to law school and shouldering that debt. Big law jobs will not and are no longer a dime a dozen. Furthermore, people who say "things will get better" are right, to an extent. Our economy will recover, but ask any partner who knows economics, and he/she will tell you that big law will not be the runaway train that it once was for years to come. Competition-- especially now with the masses going back to school-- will only increase. Moreover, law firms will be quite skeptical of overhiring for a few years. And, to boot, with the masses going back to law school, quite frankly, many of them simply have no idea what the profession is like in a realistic since. They are still stuck on lala land where they think they will be changing the constitution and whathave you. Law is a business. It is not immune to market forces. Be prepared to make 50k, or dont go into law school. Period. I look at these 1Ls and i feel for them, because they jjust dont know how hard they will have to work to find a decent-paying job....it is quite sad. And it doesnt help that law schools are not honest about hiring prospects, so much so, that it borders on the unethical. And that is my .02


I think you are severely underestimating 1Ls. As one myself, I know that my classmates and I are very aware of how difficult it is out there right now. No one's talking golden ticket whatsoever.

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:13 pm

This article is about me. I have no callbacks, even from $80k firms that I applied to, despite being above median at T14. I'm seriously thinking about just dropping out to cut my losses, since it looks more and more like nobody at all wants to hire me.

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby Voyager » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:21 pm

FYI:

I have lots of 3L friends at my "T6" who got no offered this past summer.

The safest bet this past summer was getting a gig in the V10. No one knows whether things will be worse or better next summer but of course everyone realizes that getting any SA position for the summer of 2010 is going to be rough...

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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:This article is about me. I have no callbacks, even from $80k firms that I applied to, despite being above median at T14. I'm seriously thinking about just dropping out to cut my losses, since it looks more and more like nobody at all wants to hire me.



I'm still hoping that my phone will ring, but I'm right with you. I thought about dropping out, but it doesn't really make sense unless you have something pretty lucrative to go into. If your options are 24k bullshit job, you might as well just stick it out and milk the income based repayment as much as you can.




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