NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools Forum
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- rondemarino
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
I'm now definitely willing to settle for a close to full ride at a decent non-T-14 like WUSTL. Not saying I'll get one from them, just that I'd probably accept if so lucky.
- greyarea
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Why? It does reek of resentment (which you may see as pathetic), but I thought it was pretty hilarious and well written.banquos ghost wrote:Anonymous User wrote:
The second-tier crew are really getting a kick out of it:
--LinkRemoved-- ... he-toilet/
I found that entire blog pathetic.
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Why? It does reek of resentment (which you may see as pathetic), but I thought it was pretty hilarious and well written.
The ATL crew seemed to get a kick out of it:
--LinkRemoved--
And Tom the Temp downright loved it:
http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/2 ... -hell.html
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
greyarea wrote:Why? It does reek of resentment (which you may see as pathetic), but I thought it was pretty hilarious and well written.banquos ghost wrote:Anonymous User wrote:
The second-tier crew are really getting a kick out of it:
--LinkRemoved-- ... he-toilet/
I found that entire blog pathetic.
I agree, hilarious and well-written.
- greyarea
- Posts: 19
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
I try not to wear my tin foil hat often and I despise unnecessary doom and gloom attitudes. But as a OL, I can definitely appreciate people that are willing to share their negative experiences of the legal field, so that I know I'm not only being spoon fed law school propaganda. I mean seriously. Where else do you see schools post up false statistics and never flinch once? I don't see Dentistry schools luring applicants by putting up inaccurate salary stats.
Not to self: If LS doesn't work out, become a dentist.
Not to self: If LS doesn't work out, become a dentist.
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- Helmholtz
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
I think dentists are one of the few professionals who have a higher suicide rate than lawyers.greyarea wrote:I try not to wear my tin foil hat often and I despise unnecessary doom and gloom attitudes. But as a OL, I can definitely appreciate people that are willing to share their negative experiences of the legal field, so that I know I'm not only being spoon fed law school propaganda. I mean seriously. Where else do you see schools post up false statistics and never flinch once? I don't see Dentistry schools luring applicants by putting up inaccurate salary stats.
Not to self: If LS doesn't work out, become a dentist.
- greyarea
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:07 am
Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Good eye, Debbie Downer.Helmholtz wrote:I think dentists are one of the few professionals who have a higher suicide rate than lawyers.greyarea wrote:I try not to wear my tin foil hat often and I despise unnecessary doom and gloom attitudes. But as a OL, I can definitely appreciate people that are willing to share their negative experiences of the legal field, so that I know I'm not only being spoon fed law school propaganda. I mean seriously. Where else do you see schools post up false statistics and never flinch once? I don't see Dentistry schools luring applicants by putting up inaccurate salary stats.
Not to self: If LS doesn't work out, become a dentist.
-
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Right. It's not about wallowing in pessimism; it's about trying to change a bad system (or at least work around it) rather than getting screwed by it. Having said that, as someone already suggested, you have a serious problem when the dean of Harvard Law School feels compelled to tell his students not to panic about finding a job.greyarea wrote:I try not to wear my tin foil hat often and I despise unnecessary doom and gloom attitudes. But as a OL, I can definitely appreciate people that are willing to share their negative experiences of the legal field, so that I know I'm not only being spoon fed law school propaganda. I mean seriously. Where else do you see schools post up false statistics and never flinch once? I don't see Dentistry schools luring applicants by putting up inaccurate salary stats.
Not to self: If LS doesn't work out, become a dentist.
- kurla88
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Wow... weird thing - the UPenn student they quote was one of the students they had wooing us at ASW. :/
- ruleser
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- Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:41 am
Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
+1 - Nice, this is what I've been saying and getting clobbered for - and it's not just with regard to law school and housing - the entire economy is a bubble - there can be no recovery anytime soon. This is a collapse. Everything has been unsustainable for years, as jobs went overseas, salaries stagnated, etc., but everything continued thanks to the new availability of credit. In 1970, people bought cars with cash, didn't use credit cards, etc. Now almost every household in our nation is a bubble (50% of mortgages are underwater, personal bankruptcies have set a new record every year since the late 90's, credit debt per household/lack of savings, etc.) It cannot and will not turn around in a year.coherentowst wrote:Not that this is a novel thing to say, but it seems to me that there has been a massive debt-fueled bubble in legal education and employment that is now bursting with a vengeance. And like the housing bubble, it won't be brought back even if the economy does turn around. Paying full price to go to law school now is like buying a house at the top of the bubble. Going to a top law school is just buying a house in a high-end neighborhood where prices are never supposed to go down and nobody is ever supposed to be foreclosed on. Guess how that worked out for people who bought houses like that.gahthelaw wrote:realistically though...how many NYU or Harvard kids are going to get no-offered? Everyone is stressing about OCI, and they just happened to get to them at that exact time. I bet if you talked to Derek Fanciullo right now, he'd have his offer.
Am I being overly optimistic?
Which is why I've put off law school a year to keep working, put $$ in the bank, and keep writing for the website that I've been laying this all out for years - which people keep sending $$ to and subscribing to even if I haven't written in months.
- rondemarino
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Didn't W&L give you a full ride? I thought you put off law school because your June scores opens up the possibility of attending higher ranked schools.ruleser wrote:Which is why I've put off law school a year to keep working, put $$ in the bank, and keep writing for the website that I've been laying this all out for years - which people keep sending $$ to and subscribing to even if I haven't written in months.
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
ruleser wrote:+1 - Nice, this is what I've been saying and getting clobbered for - and it's not just with regard to law school and housing - the entire economy is a bubble - there can be no recovery anytime soon. This is a collapse. Everything has been unsustainable for years, as jobs went overseas, salaries stagnated, etc., but everything continued thanks to the new availability of credit. In 1970, people bought cars with cash, didn't use credit cards, etc. Now almost every household in our nation is a bubble (50% of mortgages are underwater, personal bankruptcies have set a new record every year since the late 90's, credit debt per household/lack of savings, etc.) It cannot and will not turn around in a year.coherentowst wrote:Not that this is a novel thing to say, but it seems to me that there has been a massive debt-fueled bubble in legal education and employment that is now bursting with a vengeance. And like the housing bubble, it won't be brought back even if the economy does turn around. Paying full price to go to law school now is like buying a house at the top of the bubble. Going to a top law school is just buying a house in a high-end neighborhood where prices are never supposed to go down and nobody is ever supposed to be foreclosed on. Guess how that worked out for people who bought houses like that.gahthelaw wrote:realistically though...how many NYU or Harvard kids are going to get no-offered? Everyone is stressing about OCI, and they just happened to get to them at that exact time. I bet if you talked to Derek Fanciullo right now, he'd have his offer.
Am I being overly optimistic?
Which is why I've put off law school a year to keep working, put $$ in the bank, and keep writing for the website that I've been laying this all out for years - which people keep sending $$ to and subscribing to even if I haven't written in months.
The economy is bad, but that number is waaaay off. It's more like 23% . The 50% was a preditcion made for 2011 by Deutsche bank. Funny thing about economic predictions made two years out......
- ruleser
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:41 am
Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Thanks for that correction. Nothing worse than making a perhaps valid point but undermining it with an errorDwaterman86 wrote:ruleser wrote:+1 - Nice, this is what I've been saying and getting clobbered for - and it's not just with regard to law school and housing - the entire economy is a bubble - there can be no recovery anytime soon. This is a collapse. Everything has been unsustainable for years, as jobs went overseas, salaries stagnated, etc., but everything continued thanks to the new availability of credit. In 1970, people bought cars with cash, didn't use credit cards, etc. Now almost every household in our nation is a bubble (50% of mortgages are underwater, personal bankruptcies have set a new record every year since the late 90's, credit debt per household/lack of savings, etc.) It cannot and will not turn around in a year.coherentowst wrote:Not that this is a novel thing to say, but it seems to me that there has been a massive debt-fueled bubble in legal education and employment that is now bursting with a vengeance. And like the housing bubble, it won't be brought back even if the economy does turn around. Paying full price to go to law school now is like buying a house at the top of the bubble. Going to a top law school is just buying a house in a high-end neighborhood where prices are never supposed to go down and nobody is ever supposed to be foreclosed on. Guess how that worked out for people who bought houses like that.gahthelaw wrote:realistically though...how many NYU or Harvard kids are going to get no-offered? Everyone is stressing about OCI, and they just happened to get to them at that exact time. I bet if you talked to Derek Fanciullo right now, he'd have his offer.
Am I being overly optimistic?
Which is why I've put off law school a year to keep working, put $$ in the bank, and keep writing for the website that I've been laying this all out for years - which people keep sending $$ to and subscribing to even if I haven't written in months.
The economy is bad, but that number is waaaay off. It's more like 23% . The 50% was a preditcion made for 2011 by Deutsche bank. Funny thing about economic predictions made two years out......
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- ruleser
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
All of the above - and am retaking the LSAT again thanks to a waiver. One of the reasons I turned down W&L is I wanted $$ in the bank before I'd do a FT program, a year to see what the economy does, and a chance to get as high a ranked school as possible. I almost did Loyola PT thanks to the economy - literally had registered thanks to the big scholly but pulled out 2 days before - I wanted this year to write for my site, and didn't think ITE Loyola PT was the right move.rondemarino wrote:Didn't W&L give you a full ride? I thought you put off law school because your June scores opens up the possibility of attending higher ranked schools.ruleser wrote:Which is why I've put off law school a year to keep working, put $$ in the bank, and keep writing for the website that I've been laying this all out for years - which people keep sending $$ to and subscribing to even if I haven't written in months.
Honestly, ITE, decisions are wait-and-see - if I get a top school this year but the economy is even worse, I may be thankful to just have my job (if I still have it)
- rondemarino
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:29 am
Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Right. So you're looking to buy a house (J.D.) in a high-end market (top ranked school) at the height of the bubble?ruleser wrote:All of the above - and am retaking the LSAT again thanks to a waiver. One of the reasons I turned down W&L is I wanted $$ in the bank before I'd do a FT program, a year to see what the economy does, and a chance to get as high a ranked school as possible. I almost did Loyola PT thanks to the economy - literally had registered thanks to the big scholly but pulled out 2 days before - I wanted this year to write for my site, and didn't think ITE Loyola PT was the right move.rondemarino wrote:Didn't W&L give you a full ride? I thought you put off law school because your June scores opens up the possibility of attending higher ranked schools.ruleser wrote:Which is why I've put off law school a year to keep working, put $$ in the bank, and keep writing for the website that I've been laying this all out for years - which people keep sending $$ to and subscribing to even if I haven't written in months.
Honestly, ITE, decisions are wait-and-see - if I get a top school this year but the economy is even worse, I may be thankful to just have my job (if I still have it)
EDIT: Hmm.... that sounds more confrontational than I intended.
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Since that was my analogy, I'll offer a point of clarification: i was referring to paying full price for law school (top or not). Getting a scholarship could make law school a good deal, just as getting a house for half price even at the top of the bubble could have worked out well.rondemarino wrote:Right. So you're looking to buy a house (J.D.) in a high-end market (top ranked school) at the height of the bubble?ruleser wrote:All of the above - and am retaking the LSAT again thanks to a waiver. One of the reasons I turned down W&L is I wanted $$ in the bank before I'd do a FT program, a year to see what the economy does, and a chance to get as high a ranked school as possible. I almost did Loyola PT thanks to the economy - literally had registered thanks to the big scholly but pulled out 2 days before - I wanted this year to write for my site, and didn't think ITE Loyola PT was the right move.rondemarino wrote:Didn't W&L give you a full ride? I thought you put off law school because your June scores opens up the possibility of attending higher ranked schools.ruleser wrote:Which is why I've put off law school a year to keep working, put $$ in the bank, and keep writing for the website that I've been laying this all out for years - which people keep sending $$ to and subscribing to even if I haven't written in months.
Honestly, ITE, decisions are wait-and-see - if I get a top school this year but the economy is even worse, I may be thankful to just have my job (if I still have it)
EDIT: Hmm.... that sounds more confrontational than I intended.
- Helmholtz
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
[quote="coherentowst"]
Right, but ruleser had a full ride to a good school. Instead of taking that offer he's looking for the "chance to get as high a ranked school as possible."
Right, but ruleser had a full ride to a good school. Instead of taking that offer he's looking for the "chance to get as high a ranked school as possible."
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- ruleser
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
No worries. I have been planning on doing law school for years - I am delaying because of econ reality, and will some more if necessary - I won't go sticker anywhere - I am retaking the LSAT to see if I can't get a higher ranked school with some $$$.rondemarino wrote:Right. So you're looking to buy a house (J.D.) in a high-end market (top ranked school) at the height of the bubble?ruleser wrote:All of the above - and am retaking the LSAT again thanks to a waiver. One of the reasons I turned down W&L is I wanted $$ in the bank before I'd do a FT program, a year to see what the economy does, and a chance to get as high a ranked school as possible. I almost did Loyola PT thanks to the economy - literally had registered thanks to the big scholly but pulled out 2 days before - I wanted this year to write for my site, and didn't think ITE Loyola PT was the right move.rondemarino wrote:Didn't W&L give you a full ride? I thought you put off law school because your June scores opens up the possibility of attending higher ranked schools.ruleser wrote:Which is why I've put off law school a year to keep working, put $$ in the bank, and keep writing for the website that I've been laying this all out for years - which people keep sending $$ to and subscribing to even if I haven't written in months.
Honestly, ITE, decisions are wait-and-see - if I get a top school this year but the economy is even worse, I may be thankful to just have my job (if I still have it)
EDIT: Hmm.... that sounds more confrontational than I intended.
My whole point in going to law school, if you can imagine, was to get more of an ability to help head off/deal with this financial collapse - I've been screaming about it for a decade - wrote a novel, put up a play, started a website, been on the radio - law school was a step toward public office to deal with it.
- ruleser
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Yes - my goal is to get into a school where my screaming about this economy, etc. can have an effect. I almost bit on GMU since they are an econ center, but at near sticker couldn't do that. W&L wouldn't help with that.Helmholtz wrote:coherentowst wrote: Right, but ruleser had a full ride to a good school. Instead of taking that offer he's looking for the "chance to get as high a ranked school as possible."
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
ruleser wrote:Yes - my goal is to get into a school where my screaming about this economy, etc. can have an effect. I almost bit on GMU since they are an econ center, but at near sticker couldn't do that. W&L wouldn't help with that.Helmholtz wrote:coherentowst wrote: Right, but ruleser had a full ride to a good school. Instead of taking that offer he's looking for the "chance to get as high a ranked school as possible."
I think you may be misguided.
- ruleser
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
...
Last edited by ruleser on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- rondemarino
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
What schools would this be?ruleser wrote:Yes - my goal is to get into a school where my screaming about this economy, etc. can have an effect. I almost bit on GMU since they are an econ center, but at near sticker couldn't do that. W&L wouldn't help with that.Helmholtz wrote:coherentowst wrote: Right, but ruleser had a full ride to a good school. Instead of taking that offer he's looking for the "chance to get as high a ranked school as possible."
- ruleser
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
Chicago, Yale, Harvard (any would be via transfer from a high enough ranked school obviously)rondemarino wrote:What schools would this be?ruleser wrote:Yes - my goal is to get into a school where my screaming about this economy, etc. can have an effect. I almost bit on GMU since they are an econ center, but at near sticker couldn't do that. W&L wouldn't help with that.Helmholtz wrote:coherentowst wrote: Right, but ruleser had a full ride to a good school. Instead of taking that offer he's looking for the "chance to get as high a ranked school as possible."
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
why not a PHD in econ?
- Helmholtz
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Re: NYTimes: Downturn dims prospects even at top law schools
You should have just gone to W&M for free during 1L, be #1 in your class, and transfer to Yale.ruleser wrote: Chicago, Yale, Harvard (any would be via transfer from a high enough ranked school obviously)
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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