What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

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topsome
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What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby topsome » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:51 pm

I figure this would be useful since we had a "what did we learn after finals" thread that was pretty informative.

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:19 pm

I learned that I might end up being one of those people that Above the Law talks about in a doomsday article.

FrankReynolds
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby FrankReynolds » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:22 pm

Hmmm... maybe that the no pre-screening 20 minute speed dating model of interviewing does not work very well in this economy. Frankly, I think we should all be upset with our law school career services for not adjusting the model. The firms pretty much had there hands tied--look what happened at Fordham when a firm tried to pull out!

I think most students would have much less frustration now if they were pre-screened out of a bunch of reach firms and interviewed for more diverse options.

Mark71121
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Mark71121 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:30 pm

1. OCS are pretty worthless
2. go to a t14
3. be top 1/3 at t14

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:50 pm

Personally, I learned that displaying knowledge of the firm and showcasing a good personality in the screening interview can result in multiple call back offers to a mix of market paying firms or large secondary market firms, even when coming from a T2 outside the top 15%. I must say that is exactly what I learned after 2009 oci because I was positive, based on my T2 stats and the T14 or bust mentality, that I had absolutely no shot at landing a call back. Thus what has happened has been a pleasant surprise, but I am at this point just hoping and praying for the best during the call backs, and not getting my hopes up.

topsome
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby topsome » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:11 pm

What would you have done differently if you could?

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:39 pm

Most interviewers suck at interviewing.

shadowfish
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby shadowfish » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Most interviewers suck at interviewing.

TITCR

I tended to have a better time with 2+ interviewers, because at least one of them would have something interesting to say or would be able to direct the interview properly. With 20 mins, though, nobody would ever get enough time to talk, myself included.

mr.undroppable
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby mr.undroppable » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Most interviewers suck at interviewing.


gotta remember who your clients are...

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:18 pm

yah i thought two interviewers would be good... until they couldnt stop talking to each other in an attempt to show how collegial their firm is.

expeecting a ding.

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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:46 am

prepare to have an answer to "what questions do you have for me?" for 20 minutes, just in case

---why---
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby ---why--- » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:00 am

1. Think long and hard before going to law school.

2. Think longer and harder if you are going to a t2 law school.

3. Going to X school does not guarantee Y job anymore.

4. Some method of pre-screening at CLS (and I assume other schools) would be helpful for EVERYONE. I interviewed at way too many firms that were never going to hire me based on GPA. The concept is great, but we need more guidance. Can't the schools and firms work together on this? I know that going to CLS makes you smart and all and the school doesn't want to discriminate, blah blah, but if a firm has a GPA cutoff, it has a gpa cutoff.

5. There might be as high as 75% LESS summer positions.

6. Having 1 call-back is a good thing.

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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:36 am

those who complain about "only" have 3 callbacks are insufferable.

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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:35 pm

---why--- wrote:4. Some method of pre-screening at CLS (and I assume other schools) would be helpful for EVERYONE. I interviewed at way too many firms that were never going to hire me based on GPA. The concept is great, but we need more guidance. Can't the schools and firms work together on this? I know that going to CLS makes you smart and all and the school doesn't want to discriminate, blah blah, but if a firm has a GPA cutoff, it has a gpa cutoff.


No pre-screening is a remnant of the carnival atmosphere of boom years at the top rung of schools where anyone with a pulse would be hired. It didn't really hurt to let people take some chances on unrealistic firms. Because, sometimes, they weren't unrealistic or there was no appreciable GPA cutoff.

The overwhelming majority of schools have preselect systems for some if not all of their interviews. They normally need it, CLS & ilk normally do not. In 2009 (and 2008 to an extent), this has backfired.

-

The complaints about "only" 2-3 callbacks have some basis. Historically, it's ~50% that a callback means an offer. No one can say whether or not callbacks this year are being much more carefully given and most will mean offers, that it will be about the same, or if it will be worse than historical and most of the cuts are coming at screening.

Statistically, there is some right to be nervous.

oneforship
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby oneforship » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The complaints about "only" 2-3 callbacks have some basis. Historically, it's ~50% that a callback means an offer. No one can say whether or not callbacks this year are being much more carefully given and most will mean offers, that it will be about the same, or if it will be worse than historical and most of the cuts are coming at screening.

Statistically, there is some right to be nervous.


I think the point was that, ITE, 2-3 callbacks could very well be a blessing compared to some (many?).

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:18 pm

oneforship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The complaints about "only" 2-3 callbacks have some basis. Historically, it's ~50% that a callback means an offer. No one can say whether or not callbacks this year are being much more carefully given and most will mean offers, that it will be about the same, or if it will be worse than historical and most of the cuts are coming at screening.

Statistically, there is some right to be nervous.


I think the point was that, ITE, 2-3 callbacks could very well be a blessing compared to some (many?).


right, considering that there are many median people at CCN with 1 or no callback at this point.

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
right, considering that there are many median people at CCN with 1 or no callback at this point.


It appears, however, that firms are all wanting the same thing. Looking at various reports, it seems like people either have a fairly substantial number of callbacks or few to none. The (potentially) good thing about this is that this means firms yields will be pretty low and they will likely have to go for another couple of rounds to fill out even fairly meager classes.

I think this is just going to be a very long and painful OCI process this year. I wouldn't be surprised if some firms are left holding the bag. With everyone being skitterish, I think people are going to be more likely to snap up offers so if some firms wait too long, they might find they need to dig deeper into their lists.

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bwv812
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby bwv812 » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:58 am

.
Last edited by bwv812 on Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. T6
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Mr. T6 » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:16 am

I agree with everything said in this thread. I'm above median at Chicago, on a secondary journal, without a single callback. I'm holding out hope for waitlists due to a surprising dearth of rejections. Many of my friends are in the same boat. Someone who graded on to the LR has nothing.

I'm a decent interviewer, but, really, I don't know what it means to interview "well." Some interviewers are aggressive, pressing you on why you want the firm. Other interviewers want to talk about their kids. You have to quickly read their approach and go along, but you're not going to blow anyone away. These are conversations, not gauntlets.

There are a few silver linings: I'll have only 80k in debt, God willing, at graduation; I have neither kids nor a mortgage; and I am geographically flexible. But this is still rough.

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Mr. T6
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Mr. T6 » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
right, considering that there are many median people at CCN with 1 or no callback at this point.


It appears, however, that firms are all wanting the same thing. Looking at various reports, it seems like people either have a fairly substantial number of callbacks or few to none. The (potentially) good thing about this is that this means firms yields will be pretty low and they will likely have to go for another couple of rounds to fill out even fairly meager classes.

I think this is just going to be a very long and painful OCI process this year. I wouldn't be surprised if some firms are left holding the bag. With everyone being skitterish, I think people are going to be more likely to snap up offers so if some firms wait too long, they might find they need to dig deeper into their lists.


Or they might say, "Fuck it. We're not hiring anyone." I think that's as likely ITE.

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Anhimal
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anhimal » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:40 am

Mr. T6 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
right, considering that there are many median people at CCN with 1 or no callback at this point.


It appears, however, that firms are all wanting the same thing. Looking at various reports, it seems like people either have a fairly substantial number of callbacks or few to none. The (potentially) good thing about this is that this means firms yields will be pretty low and they will likely have to go for another couple of rounds to fill out even fairly meager classes.

I think this is just going to be a very long and painful OCI process this year. I wouldn't be surprised if some firms are left holding the bag. With everyone being skitterish, I think people are going to be more likely to snap up offers so if some firms wait too long, they might find they need to dig deeper into their lists.


Or they might say, "Fuck it. We're not hiring anyone." I think that's as likely ITE.


This is a brutal year...

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
right, considering that there are many median people at CCN with 1 or no callback at this point.


It appears, however, that firms are all wanting the same thing. Looking at various reports, it seems like people either have a fairly substantial number of callbacks or few to none. The (potentially) good thing about this is that this means firms yields will be pretty low and they will likely have to go for another couple of rounds to fill out even fairly meager classes.

I think this is just going to be a very long and painful OCI process this year. I wouldn't be surprised if some firms are left holding the bag. With everyone being skitterish, I think people are going to be more likely to snap up offers so if some firms wait too long, they might find they need to dig deeper into their lists.


I've noticed this as well. Most people I know of with callbacks have 12+ (with many 18+) while many have none. This is across quite a few markets.

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:27 am

It's all about the numbers... A terrible interview can lose you a job, a great interview (like performing jesus miracles) can help you get a job, but with those two extremes aside, it's all about the numbers... and dumb luck (can't forget that one)

Anonymous User
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:11 am

What did I learn in OCI? Transferring was the worst fucking idea ever. 120k extra debt for only 1 callback; would have done better at my original school. Really wishing I could back out and go back to old school.

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SteelReserve
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Re: What did we learn after 2009 OCI?

Postby SteelReserve » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:37 am

Transferring was the worst fucking idea ever. 120k extra debt for only 1 callback


Sweet Jesus. I wonder if any of the people from my t2, who thought they were hot shit for transferring into a t20, are in a similar position?




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