TRANSFERS-- how are you doing in OCI? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I know there are a ton of people on here that transferred up from a lower ranked school to a t20 or better. How is OCI working out for everyone (i.e. are you getting callbacks, offers, if your school is not that far in OCI how did you fell your screening interviews went)?

I just got done with OCI recently at a t10. It seemed like a lot of interviews ended about 2 minutes in, where the interviewer asked, "so you don't have any grades at X school?" It seemed like, they were saying, yeah you did great at your old school but that tells me nothing because I can't compare you to students here at X school (and one interviewer explicitly said that). It seems like with the 100+ interviews firms are doing this year (in total-- including multiple schools) for around 10 summer associate jobs they are really just looking for anything to throw out resumes & transcripts, and a student not having grades at the school they are interviewing at is a really easy way to reject an applicant.

If I end up empty handed with no offers this fall and just do an unpaid externship or something like that this summer, what type of grades would I need at a t10 (MVPB) to get a job out of 3L OCI (which is a graveyard) next year? Top 5%, top 1%, or even better?

[Anonymous User]

I am also a transfer to MVPB, and my experience has been vastly different from yours. Every interviewer seemed very favorable to transfers; a couple even told me that in their experience, transfers fair just as well in their new school, if not better. In fact, a few of my interviewers were transfers to MVPB themselves. Granted, OCI ended last week and I have yet to receive any callbacks/rejections, but they did not seem too concerned with the fact that I was a transfer.

[06072010]

I know there are a ton of people on here that transferred up from a lower ranked school to a t20 or better. How is OCI working out for everyone (i.e. are you getting callbacks, offers, if your school is not that far in OCI how did you fell your screening interviews went)?

I just got done with OCI recently at a t10. It seemed like a lot of interviews ended about 2 minutes in, where the interviewer asked, "so you don't have any grades at X school?" It seemed like, they were saying, yeah you did great at your old school but that tells me nothing because I can't compare you to students here at X school (and one interviewer explicitly said that). It seems like with the 100+ interviews firms are doing this year (in total-- including multiple schools) for around 10 summer associate jobs they are really just looking for anything to throw out resumes & transcripts, and a student not having grades at the school they are interviewing at is a really easy way to reject an applicant.

If I end up empty handed with no offers this fall and just do an unpaid externship or something like that this summer, what type of grades would I need at a t10 (MVPB) to get a job out of 3L OCI (which is a graveyard) next year? Top 5%, top 1%, or even better?

At Mich, 3L's at most got 1 interview through OCI. Start a mail campaign yesterday.

[Anonymous User]

I will post back once I know more. It will be interesting since I targeted DC and it seems to be the most competitive market. I second PK's suggestion about direct mail, as I emailed out about 30 resumes (to a secondary market) before OCI started and already have 2 callbacks lined up from those. I used NALP and the city's bar association website to get both NALP and non-NALP employers contact info in the secondary market.

[Anonymous User]

I know there are a ton of people on here that transferred up from a lower ranked school to a t20 or better. How is OCI working out for everyone (i.e. are you getting callbacks, offers, if your school is not that far in OCI how did you fell your screening interviews went)?

I just got done with OCI recently at a t10. It seemed like a lot of interviews ended about 2 minutes in, where the interviewer asked, "so you don't have any grades at X school?" It seemed like, they were saying, yeah you did great at your old school but that tells me nothing because I can't compare you to students here at X school (and one interviewer explicitly said that). It seems like with the 100+ interviews firms are doing this year (in total-- including multiple schools) for around 10 summer associate jobs they are really just looking for anything to throw out resumes & transcripts, and a student not having grades at the school they are interviewing at is a really easy way to reject an applicant.

If I end up empty handed with no offers this fall and just do an unpaid externship or something like that this summer, what type of grades would I need at a t10 (MVPB) to get a job out of 3L OCI (which is a graveyard) next year? Top 5%, top 1%, or even better?

At Mich, 3L's at most got 1 interview through OCI. Start a mail campaign yesterday.

I mass mailed around mid to end of July to all the big Chicago firms (that were on NALP - so around 60 applications) prior to knowing whether I would even be able to participate in OCI (the OCI bidding deadline had passed before I was accepted). I emailed out a resume and a generic cover letter (since it was way to many firms to write a personalized cover letter to, and it was unclear as to which firms are even having a summer program). The mail campaign was completely unsuccessful, but Chicago is a major market. The mail campaign led to odd results though because it appeared some of the firms that came to OCI at my school said that they weren't interested, but then I was signed up for OCI at that firm later (although, many just said to sign up for a OCI slot). Also, I think it would be hard for me to be successful in a secondary market since I have no ties to any of them being from Chicago.

[Anonymous User]

I know there are a ton of people on here that transferred up from a lower ranked school to a t20 or better. How is OCI working out for everyone (i.e. are you getting callbacks, offers, if your school is not that far in OCI how did you fell your screening interviews went)?

I just got done with OCI recently at a t10. It seemed like a lot of interviews ended about 2 minutes in, where the interviewer asked, "so you don't have any grades at X school?" It seemed like, they were saying, yeah you did great at your old school but that tells me nothing because I can't compare you to students here at X school (and one interviewer explicitly said that). It seems like with the 100+ interviews firms are doing this year (in total-- including multiple schools) for around 10 summer associate jobs they are really just looking for anything to throw out resumes & transcripts, and a student not having grades at the school they are interviewing at is a really easy way to reject an applicant.

If I end up empty handed with no offers this fall and just do an unpaid externship or something like that this summer, what type of grades would I need at a t10 (MVPB) to get a job out of 3L OCI (which is a graveyard) next year? Top 5%, top 1%, or even better?

At Mich, 3L's at most got 1 interview through OCI. Start a mail campaign yesterday.

I mass mailed around mid to end of July to all the big Chicago firms (that were on NALP - so around 60 applications) prior to knowing whether I would even be able to participate in OCI (the OCI bidding deadline had passed before I was accepted). I emailed out a resume and a generic cover letter (since it was way to many firms to write a personalized cover letter to, and it was unclear as to which firms are even having a summer program). The mail campaign was completely unsuccessful, but Chicago is a major market. The mail campaign led to odd results though because it appeared some of the firms that came to OCI at my school said that they weren't interested, but then I was signed up for OCI at that firm later (although, many just said to sign up for a OCI slot). Also, I think it would be hard for me to be successful in a secondary market since I have no ties to any of them being from Chicago.

Good point. I did have a tie to the secondary market that I mass mailed to, and I think that is why I got those interviews. I would think that Milwaukee, Indianapolis, and St. Louis would all be secondary markets that you could consider (clearly they are not Chicago, but I would rather live in Milwaukee than be unemployed). I would also mass mail non-NALP firms in Chicago (if you can find any info on the web about them). One firm that I have an interview with was a non-NALP firm, and granted I have no idea what the salary at the place is, but at this point, as long as they pay in US dollars, I could care less.

[Anonymous User]

Good idea. I actually interviewed with a firm from Milwaukee during OCI, and the guy only had 6 slots available and about half were empty. I singed up for one of the empty slots and did some research on the place before going in and it was funny because the guy was really trying to sell the firm to me (probably since it had no interest from MVPB students, which I thought was crazy considering they pay $125K a year and COL out there WI is a joke).

How did you find out that these non-NALP firms existed, how many attorneys they have (i.e. that they are not just a 5 person operation), and where and to whom to mail your application materials to (even this can be tough to find on some of these websites)?

I would try both the bar association websites (either for the state or the city, there are generally websites for each) and Martindale-Hubbel. I ended up finding a couple of law firms (Non-Nalp) who were sponsors of the local bar association and just went to their websites and found out they had a formal summer program. I also ran a search on Martindale for alums of my current school (transfer school) for that area that I was targeting and actually found that there were a lot of alums from my transfer school practicing in that area. It was hit or miss for a lot, but on Martindale they list the firm that the alum is practicing it, and I would just google the firm and see if they had a website and go from there. It isn't the easiest thing to do but might work out for you.

[Anonymous User]

Bump for most other OCIs being over and Penn's just beginning today . . .

[Anonymous User]

Bump for most other OCIs being over and Penn's just beginning today . . .

CLS transfer here. I have 7 call backs and I think I'll probably end up with 1 or 2 more at the most (they're still calling back people at this point, got one this evening actually). I got one V5 and was shut out from the rest of the V20, but I wasn't expecting to get them ITE. I think I interview quite well and came from a solid 1L school. (I think this helped a lot) I'm definitely glad I transferred.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a transfer to a T5. I had 16 interviews, 4 callbacks, and 1 ding so far (probably more dings via mail but I don't have access to my mailbox yet). All of the interviews were for a secondary market. The callbacks fall between V10-V60, and they are all on Vault's t-10 in the region list. I came from another T14 school though and was top 15%.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a transfer to a T6. I have one callback; would have done much better if I had stayed at my original school. Hell, I even wrote on to a secondary journal at my new school. Transferring may prove to be one of the decisions I regret most in life, considering it will tally up to about $120k in extra debt.

[tgbyuio]

Transferred to a T14 from a T30. Had 12 screening interviews in new york, followed by 3 on-campus, so 15 total. I've had 5 dings (mostly from firms that would have been out-of-reach anyways, I was around top 20% at my old school and went straight through from undergrad), 1 callback from an on-campus (V100 in DC), which leaves the majority unanswered. Given that my old school was really tied to a midwestern market that is HORRIBLE right now, the added national stature of a T14 I think has paid off purely due to access to these other markets. I'm not sure if I'd feel the same if I was taking on as much debt as many other transfers, because I don't have to. It's a huge blessing. I'm not regretting transferring (yet).

But more generally, it's a huge mistake to think that this summer will make or break one's career. If you went to law school to become a lawyer, make a career-long commitment. We're (mostly) in our 20s. Even if this recession lasts as long as the great depression (it won't), the market will pick up again while we all have decades left to our careers. I can understand the panic vis a vis debt obligations, but I honestly think the long term benefit of a T14 JD will outlive any short term transaction costs of transferring. Look beyond the potential career benefits, and take advantage of everything else a transfer can benefit from--better curricular options, better professors, better clinical opportunities--don't forget everything else that comes with a transfer.

Enough with the Above the Law panic, and buckle down. This shit will get better.

[Anonymous User]

MVBP transfer from T2 here. I had 12 OCI interviews and have received 2 callbacks - V20 (Secondary Market), V50-60 (Chicago) - one of which I know is noted for favoring transfers. I've also received 5 dings and am still waiting on 5 to respond. I have also mass mailed - one positive response, a couple dings, a couple inquiries for additional info, and a lot of silence.

As previous posters have mentioned, I had some employers who seemed to look well upon transfers and some that appeared less receptive during OCI (in which case, their attitude often turned me off the firm anyway). As far as other transfers, it seems that quite a few have at least one callback.

I do not regret transferring in the least. Though I would have been assured an offer in the secondary market where my T2 school was located, I desired greater geographic opportunity . . . and now I have a callback in each of my targeted two markets (which I could not have reached from my T2). And I agree with tgbyuio; there were many other reasons that induced the transfer and a number of great benefits that go beyond 2L summer employment (not the least of which is the Alumni network).

We're in the beginning right now - everyone is experiencing feelings of uncertainty (including the firms) about how this employment season will pan out. Work hard now and pursue every opportunity that comes your way. Panic in another month or two.

In the meantime, good luck to all!!!

[Anonymous User]

I echo the T6 transfer's sentiment above. I made the mistake of leaving a school near the market in which I want to practice for a T10 (still no more than 500 miles from my target city). However, this has had a couple effects.

1) Whereas employers from my target city (TC) came to OCI at my new school in years past (and lots of them), this year that is not holding true. There are only 2-3 employers coming, which has meant a massive write-in campaign to the other firms. Even with an undergraduate degree from the major public university in the state to which I want to return, I have had several employers question why, if I wanted to work in TC, I left my old school. I have been dinged by one firm outright, without even an interview, even though I was going to be in town anyway and was not going to cost them anything.

2) From what I have heard, transfers this year from my school are simply not competitive (as a general rule) for the primary market my new school feeds; the desire to work in this market is, unfortunately, the reason many decided to transfer.

This leaves me in purgatory -- I am, in TC's eyes, "too good" for TC, but not good enough for the major markets. I agree that this may have been a huge mistake, as reports from my old school seem to be that people much lower than my class ranking are receiving callbacks at nearly every TC firm at which they have interviewed.

I will qualify that I am in a somewhat unique situation with the economy and leaving the area in which I want to practice. In different circumstances, such as transferring to break into a different market, the decision may have made sense.

Enough rambling. Law review is calling.

[Anonymous User]

I transferred from a T25 to a T6. So far I've heard back from around half the firms at OCI. I have one callback from the market I transferred from and nothing but dings from the market of my new school. 100k in extra debt might be stinging for quite a while.

[Anonymous User]

So far my experience had been bad:
23 interviews
0 CBs
8/11 dings in the market I want (particularly because the remaining 3 are firms I have no shot at).
Haven't heard from other markets yet (which is odd because I interviewed at a couple firms in NYC and those were quick for most people).

Mass mailed every single NALP firm in my target market (major market) and rejected at every single one

Mass mailed every single NALP firm in a state that connects to the one I am from and was either rejected or haven't heard from every single one.

Mass mailed every single small to mid size firm on martindale's (50 attorneys and above) in the market I want and got nothing but rejects with the exception of one firm that says they want to do a screening interview, but the recruiting coordinator wouldn't call me back.

So a total mass mailings are well over 500 firms, with a total of 0 interviews (1 that said they want to interview me but never returned my phone call).

I'm a t3 to t10 transfer. Top 2% at my old school but not much else because journal write-on results aren't here. I also didn't work last summer (did summer school). Also, looking at an extra $130K in debt as a result of the transfer (gave up a free-ride).

In all fairness, though, I should mention I was an incredibly bad interviewee at most of OCI because I was nervous. But even then, it seemed like a lot of firms didn't really ask me much of anything besides maybe one or two questions to clarify things on my resume (such as what did you do in summer of 07'), and after that simply just asked me if I had questions for them, which is where the other 15-18 minutes of the interview went. That seemed like a complete waste of time because WTF good does it do me to learn a ton about a firm when they don't give me a callback. I think the time would've been better spent if firms would actually have asked me questions.

Also, being a bad interviewer doesn't do much justice for explaning the 500+ dings I got from mass mailings.

[Anonymous User]

I also didn't work last summer (did summer school).

I am curious why you did this? Even in this economy, you must have been able to get a job with your grades, right?

[Anonymous User]

I also didn't work last summer (did summer school).

I am curious why you did this? Even in this economy, you must have been able to get a job with your grades, right?

I was PT last year (24 credits) and I needed 28-32 to transfer by this fall.

[Anonymous User]

T10 Transfer into CCN
6-7 Callbacks, all in a major market.
I have dings from almost every other firm, except maybe Milbank and two others

I think I'm doing better than most other transfers, except those who transferred from a T20 that's well recruited from. I think, with the T20, and especially the T14/T10, those schools are known quantities to a lot of the firms. Rather than evaluate someone who rocked out at a T50 in an entirely new context, firms have a decent idea of how the student did relative to his or her peers at a T14 or whatever, because they recruit at those schools.

One firm, during my screening interview, essentially told me they'd have to talk to the recruiting team who handles my old school before deciding whether to call me back.

[transferguy]

T10 Transfer into CCN
6-7 Callbacks, all in a major market.
I have dings from almost every other firm, except maybe Milbank and two others

I think I'm doing better than most other transfers, except those who transferred from a T20 that's well recruited from. I think, with the T20, and especially the T14/T10, those schools are known quantities to a lot of the firms. Rather than evaluate someone who rocked out at a T50 in an entirely new context, firms have a decent idea of how the student did relative to his or her peers at a T14 or whatever, because they recruit at those schools.

One firm, during my screening interview, essentially told me they'd have to talk to the recruiting team who handles my old school before deciding whether to call me back.

Agreed. I'm a CCN transfer from a (formerly) well recruited T25 and I have 7+ callbacks. I think the school where you came from is a pretty important factor ITE.

[agibson6]

Sorry for not being quite on topic, but OP mentioned something that I've been wondering about. Do your transfer grades translate exactly into the new school's system? Say if someone got a 4.0 at a T2, then transferred to a top 6 or something...it's like they would be in the top echelon of their new class even though they didn't earn those grades against the people who went to the school for 1L. On the other hand, no reliable subjective system could possibly exist in my opinion.

OP illustrates one drawback with interviewers, but otherwise?

[transferguy]

Sorry for not being quite on topic, but OP mentioned something that I've been wondering about. Do your transfer grades translate exactly into the new school's system? Say if someone got a 4.0 at a T2, then transferred to a top 6 or something...it's like they would be in the top echelon of their new class even though they didn't earn those grades against the people who went to the school for 1L. On the other hand, no reliable subjective system could possibly exist in my opinion.

OP illustrates one drawback with interviewers, but otherwise?

No, they definitely don't translate exactly. I think they start to approach "exact translation" the closer your former school is in ranking to your new school (i.e. going from DCNG to another DCNG school will likely translate you over pretty closely--adjusting for various curves at each school, of course). Also, if your former school is visited by the firm you are interviewing for, they probably use past GPA charts from your old school in deciding upon you.

[Anonymous User]

I completely struck out at firms that did OCI at my original school as well as my new school. I also struck out with my mailings to firms that do OCI at my original school but not my new school, presumably because they don't buy my pitch that I wouldn't mind going back to their market. I can't blame them too much--they're right--but I would sure as hell rather go back to that market as opposed to the jobless shitstorm that I've put myself in to now.

Transferring: Absolutely the worst decision of my life. T40, top 1% to a T6, wrote on to a freaking secondary journal at the T6 even, tripple the debt, two goddamned callbacks. If one of the callbacks works out, great, but at this point, I am surveying several of the higher bridges in the area.

[06072010]

I completely struck out at firms that did OCI at my original school as well as my new school. I also struck out with my mailings to firms that do OCI at my original school but not my new school, presumably because they don't buy my pitch that I wouldn't mind going back to their market. I can't blame them too much--they're right--but I would sure as hell rather go back to that market as opposed to the jobless shitstorm that I've put myself in to now.

Transferring: Absolutely the worst decision of my life. T40, top 1% to a T6, wrote on to a freaking secondary journal at the T6 even, tripple the debt, two goddamned callbacks. If one of the callbacks works out, great, but at this point, I am surveying several of the higher bridges in the area.

I think it's too early to be looking at bridges. It's a brave new world out there with legal hiring -- you'll need to see what hiring looks like during the upturn to judge your decision fairly, I think.

[transferguy]

I completely struck out at firms that did OCI at my original school as well as my new school. I also struck out with my mailings to firms that do OCI at my original school but not my new school, presumably because they don't buy my pitch that I wouldn't mind going back to their market. I can't blame them too much--they're right--but I would sure as hell rather go back to that market as opposed to the jobless shitstorm that I've put myself in to now.

Transferring: Absolutely the worst decision of my life. T40, top 1% to a T6, wrote on to a freaking secondary journal at the T6 even, tripple the debt, two goddamned callbacks. If one of the callbacks works out, great, but at this point, I am surveying several of the higher bridges in the area.

How well would you say you interview?