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Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:14 am
by d34d9823
Core wrote:
Yeah. Sorry to find amusement in your problem. :(

But seriously, it's not like you can make a bad choice here. Did you decide yet?

Nah it's cool. I'd do the same.
Yea - Penn. I was having second thoughts and doubting myself, but once I snapped out of it I realized that my decision was, for me, the right one.


Congrats. :D

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:08 am
by Anonymous User
3rdYrLitigator wrote:I'm not sure I can really differentiate a lot of these. I'd say personally:

1, 5, 6
7
9
the rest

legends159 wrote:Generally speaking, how would you rank these summer jobs for resume boost in preparation for OCI: it's fine if you say that some are on the same level and no real difference.

1. firm job (big law firm)
2. firm job (small firm in middle of nowhere)
3. Public interest work with high profile agency (say ACLU; NAACP)
4. Public interest work with smaller agency
5. US attorney's office (civil division)
6. US attorney's office (criminal division)
7. Government agency (say SEC)
8. Extern with a state judge (non-Supreme Court)
9. Extern with a federal judge/state supreme court judge
10. RA for a professor



Didn't know small firm work was so poorly ranked... :|

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:22 am
by nixxers
thanks for answering so many questions! v. helpful!

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:59 am
by 3rdYrLitigator
hiromoto45 wrote:1. How do women fair at your firm?
2.During what year or time does it become seemingly clear which associates are on the partner track and which are not?
3. Are the URMs in your firm given work level to yours or is it significantly less demanding? I ask because you said previous URMs have been hired with lesser gpas. I can't but think that would affect the quality of work or productivity that would be expected of URMs.
4. Do URMs still face a glass-ceiling to partnership even if they excel beyond expectations or are just as productive as non-urms that are on the partner track?


1. There aren't as many women partners but there are almost equal number of associates. As far as I can tell women are treated the same as men. There also doesn't seem to be a stigma to taking maternity leave.

2. I'd say around years 4-6, but people are asked to leave at every level all the time.

3. URMs get the same work.

4. No, when it come to making partner the almighty book of business rules. You could be a martian and as long as you can bring in the $, you'll be fine.

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:03 am
by 3rdYrLitigator
Anonymous User wrote:
3rdYrLitigator wrote:I'm not sure I can really differentiate a lot of these. I'd say personally:

1, 5, 6
7
9
the rest

legends159 wrote:Generally speaking, how would you rank these summer jobs for resume boost in preparation for OCI: it's fine if you say that some are on the same level and no real difference.

1. firm job (big law firm)
2. firm job (small firm in middle of nowhere)
3. Public interest work with high profile agency (say ACLU; NAACP)
4. Public interest work with smaller agency
5. US attorney's office (civil division)
6. US attorney's office (criminal division)
7. Government agency (say SEC)
8. Extern with a state judge (non-Supreme Court)
9. Extern with a federal judge/state supreme court judge
10. RA for a professor



Didn't know small firm work was so poorly ranked... :|


The problem with small firm work is that there are so many small firms that I don't know if it's a one man shop your uncle owns, and you're stamping envelopes. Small firms also generally aren't as selective and go more by who you know. So the places I listed above are places that are selective (mostly).

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:28 am
by hiromoto45
3rdYrLitigator wrote:4. No, when it come to making partner the almighty book of business rules. You could be a martian and as long as you can bring in the $, you'll be fine.


How does an associate bring in money for the firm? Do they solicit clients on their own, or win big cases?

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:52 am
by Anonymous User
3rdYrLitigator wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
3rdYrLitigator wrote:I'm not sure I can really differentiate a lot of these. I'd say personally:

1, 5, 6
7
9
the rest

legends159 wrote:Generally speaking, how would you rank these summer jobs for resume boost in preparation for OCI: it's fine if you say that some are on the same level and no real difference.

1. firm job (big law firm)
2. firm job (small firm in middle of nowhere)
3. Public interest work with high profile agency (say ACLU; NAACP)
4. Public interest work with smaller agency
5. US attorney's office (civil division)
6. US attorney's office (criminal division)
7. Government agency (say SEC)
8. Extern with a state judge (non-Supreme Court)
9. Extern with a federal judge/state supreme court judge
10. RA for a professor



Didn't know small firm work was so poorly ranked... :|


The problem with small firm work is that there are so many small firms that I don't know if it's a one man shop your uncle owns, and you're stamping envelopes. Small firms also generally aren't as selective and go more by who you know. So the places I listed above are places that are selective (mostly).


Interesting. Would you rank the same for those aspiring to transactional law?

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:23 am
by miamiman
Thanks for taking my prior question. Just a few quick follow-ups:

1. How did you learn which firms place a higher premium upon associate development?

2. How did you learn which firms were stronger in x or y litigation than peers that market themselves in the same area?

3. A lot of the recent advice being circulated around here and is to view OCI as just one of a number of possible routes of obtaining that first, coveted job. How would you advise entering students on making the necessary networking steps needed to supplement -- if not entirely bypass -- a rough OCI?

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:45 am
by ZXCVBNM
Anonymous User wrote:
3rdYrLitigator wrote:I'm not sure I can really differentiate a lot of these. I'd say personally:

1, 5, 6
7
9
the rest

legends159 wrote:Generally speaking, how would you rank these summer jobs for resume boost in preparation for OCI: it's fine if you say that some are on the same level and no real difference.

1. firm job (big law firm)
2. firm job (small firm in middle of nowhere)
3. Public interest work with high profile agency (say ACLU; NAACP)
4. Public interest work with smaller agency
5. US attorney's office (civil division)
6. US attorney's office (criminal division)
7. Government agency (say SEC)
8. Extern with a state judge (non-Supreme Court)
9. Extern with a federal judge/state supreme court judge
10. RA for a professor



Didn't know small firm work was so poorly ranked... :|


I wonder if it is any different when talking about NY. I decided to intern for a judge in SDNY instead of US attorney's office - EDNY. Not sure which would be better. Too late anyway I guess. Besides, I was told I couldn't turn down the Judge anyway.

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:18 pm
by 3rdYrLitigator
hiromoto45 wrote:
3rdYrLitigator wrote:4. No, when it come to making partner the almighty book of business rules. You could be a martian and as long as you can bring in the $, you'll be fine.


How does an associate bring in money for the firm? Do they solicit clients on their own, or win big cases?


Junior associates bring in money by billing a ton. Some associates do bring in work, but there's not really an expectation until you're a more senior associate.

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:20 pm
by 3rdYrLitigator
Anonymous User wrote:
Interesting. Would you rank the same for those aspiring to transactional law?


Pretty much. If 7 is in the same area as your transactional work that could bump it up.

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:22 pm
by 3rdYrLitigator
miamiman wrote:Thanks for taking my prior question. Just a few quick follow-ups:

1. How did you learn which firms place a higher premium upon associate development?

2. How did you learn which firms were stronger in x or y litigation than peers that market themselves in the same area?

3. A lot of the recent advice being circulated around here and is to view OCI as just one of a number of possible routes of obtaining that first, coveted job. How would you advise entering students on making the necessary networking steps needed to supplement -- if not entirely bypass -- a rough OCI?


1. This is something that I didn't figure out until being in firms and having friends in firms.

2. This kind of information you can get by talking to lawyers in your market, and looking at rankings like Chambers.

3. No idea, I generally think the "go to this or that event and meet a partner to get your foot in the door" is generally useless. The best way is through OCI, the second best way is to clerk then lateral, the third best way is to go small/mid law and then try to build up enough skills to lateral.

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:45 pm
by chicoalto0649
What are some good ways to get fired in BigLaw? I've only heard about the success stories on TLS but I would like to know some of the reasons why people get excused from their firm. Can you be terminated at any time?

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:59 pm
by ogurty
I can't really think of a question right now; I'd just like to express my thanks to you for answering these questions and continuing to check back on this thread. So much good information!

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:25 pm
by mhernton
How are those with significant work experience and therefore a little longer in the tooth viewed by Big Law?

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:21 pm
by 3rdYrLitigator
chicoalto0649 wrote:What are some good ways to get fired in BigLaw? I've only heard about the success stories on TLS but I would like to know some of the reasons why people get excused from their firm. Can you be terminated at any time?


Have low billables (often you have almost no control over this as a junior associate). Miss deadlines, turn in crappy work product and don't improve after being told what you've done wrong. You can be terminated at any time.

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:22 pm
by 3rdYrLitigator
mhernton wrote:How are those with significant work experience and therefore a little longer in the tooth viewed by Big Law?


Work experience is good, depends on how long in the tooth. It's not fatal but may give you a slight knock down if you're pretty old.

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:22 pm
by 3rdYrLitigator
ogurty wrote:I can't really think of a question right now; I'd just like to express my thanks to you for answering these questions and continuing to check back on this thread. So much good information!


No problem.

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:27 pm
by jimmyd11011
3rdYrLitigator wrote:
mhernton wrote:How are those with significant work experience and therefore a little longer in the tooth viewed by Big Law?


Work experience is good, depends on how long in the tooth. It's not fatal but may give you a slight knock down if you're pretty old.


Is it a disadvantage to have gone straight from undergrad to law school with no real work experience when interviewing at oci? Is is that how a lot (most?) of the people hired are?

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:51 pm
by DoubleChecks
thanks for all your help -- this thread is amazing

just tagging

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:56 pm
by 03121202698008
DoubleChecks wrote:thanks for all your help -- this thread is amazing

just tagging


There is a subscribe and bookmark button at the top of each thread...

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:08 pm
by Anonymous User
This thread's been fantastic, thanks!

Re: the earlier question on ranking the most helpful summer gigs, where would you rank a SA at a midsize regional firm in a small secondary market, if you're eventually shooting for NYC biglaw?

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:12 pm
by Anonymous User
How does your firm distinguish at OCI between US and non US residents? Are international students evaluated very differently or does it depend on the country/school?

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:30 pm
by bconly
thanks, this stuff is interesting

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:44 pm
by 3rdYrLitigator
jimmyd11011 wrote:
3rdYrLitigator wrote:
mhernton wrote:How are those with significant work experience and therefore a little longer in the tooth viewed by Big Law?


Work experience is good, depends on how long in the tooth. It's not fatal but may give you a slight knock down if you're pretty old.


Is it a disadvantage to have gone straight from undergrad to law school with no real work experience when interviewing at oci? Is is that how a lot (most?) of the people hired are?


Maybe slightly but the majority of law school students have no work experience, so you're in the majority. However, all things considered I think people with WE do get a bump.