Biglaw lawyer taking questions

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
ruleser
Posts: 870
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:41 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby ruleser » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:17 pm

3rdYrLitigator wrote:
Along the same lines, would it be better to attend a school that offers, say like W and L now is, a 3rd year program that will be experiential/practical possibly over some higher ranked ones with far less of that?


Well, maybe among peer schools, but I wouldn't put too much weight on the program. That said, if you really want to get a leg up, clinics are the way to go.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

3rdYrLitigator
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:52 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby 3rdYrLitigator » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:35 pm

Renzo wrote:Did you law review? If so, was it worth it?


I did a secondary journal, absolutely worth it.

User avatar
erico
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:56 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby erico » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:52 pm

you briefly touched on patent attorneys at your firm. do you have any idea if the noraml hiring standards, i.e. only top 20 schools etc, apply to hard IP guys (electrical engineering background for example)? or are hard ip attorneys more rare and thus given some slack? ha.

thanks for all the infor in this thread, very informative.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby Renzo » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:55 pm

On a scale of zero to 10, how delusional would you have to be to think you're going to get a 1L summer assoc. job ITE?

3rdYrLitigator
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:52 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby 3rdYrLitigator » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:03 pm

erico wrote:you briefly touched on patent attorneys at your firm. do you have any idea if the noraml hiring standards, i.e. only top 20 schools etc, apply to hard IP guys (electrical engineering background for example)? or are hard ip attorneys more rare and thus given some slack? ha.

thanks for all the infor in this thread, very informative.


I've interviewed some of the patent attorneys that came through recruiting this year, they were all top 20. As far as I know, things used to be a little more slack, but this year it's top schools only.

On a scale of zero to 10, how delusional would you have to be to think you're going to get a 1L summer assoc. job ITE?


Can never hurt to apply, but if you don't have serious connections, I'd say you'd have to be right around a 9.5.

User avatar
BaiAilian2013
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:18 pm

How often do the long hours come in the form of having to work extremely late into the night (e.g. ending up with 4 or 5 hours of sleep) rather than just late evenings and weekends? In your experience, is significant sleep deprivation common?

User avatar
erico
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:56 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby erico » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:43 pm

BaiAilian2013 wrote:How often do the long hours come in the form of having to work extremely late into the night (e.g. ending up with 4 or 5 hours of sleep) rather than just late evenings and weekends? In your experience, is significant sleep deprivation common?


hahaha

Anonymous User
Posts: 273534
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:58 am

Are there any black partners in your firm?

How are black associates viewed in general by the firm?

Is it all down to hard work for everyone?

Please be honest and give us an overview of your observations.

TheJudge
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby TheJudge » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:Are there any black partners in your firm?

How are black associates viewed in general by the firm?

Is it all down to hard work for everyone?

Please be honest and give us an overview of your observations.



From what I can tell, AA get treated way differently. They are also allowed way more leeway when it comes to hours for instance. You know, my firm really likes to pay 160K a year for people that underperform.

User avatar
20121109
Posts: 2149
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:19 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby 20121109 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are there any black partners in your firm?

How are black associates viewed in general by the firm?

Is it all down to hard work for everyone?

Please be honest and give us an overview of your observations.



From what I can tell, AA get treated way differently. They are also allowed way more leeway when it comes to hours for instance. You know, my firm really likes to pay 160K a year for people that underperform.


What is wrong with you? You really are quite sad. This man is here to offer real insight into life as a Biglaw lawyer and then you attempt to start some frivolous affirmative action debate based on your prejudice. Stop derailing this thread.

06072010
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:30 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby 06072010 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are there any black partners in your firm?

How are black associates viewed in general by the firm?

Is it all down to hard work for everyone?

Please be honest and give us an overview of your observations.



From what I can tell, AA get treated way differently. They are also allowed way more leeway when it comes to hours for instance. You know, my firm really likes to pay 160K a year for people that underperform.


And he's abusing the anonymous feature badly and thus gets outted. TheJudge, you are warned and are on thin ice.

3rdYrLitigator
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:52 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby 3rdYrLitigator » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:41 am

BaiAilian2013 wrote:How often do the long hours come in the form of having to work extremely late into the night (e.g. ending up with 4 or 5 hours of sleep) rather than just late evenings and weekends? In your experience, is significant sleep deprivation common?


Well the latest I've ever stayed at work is 1:30 AM. However, in the past 3 months, I've probably been at work for 12 or more hours more often than not. I think everyone works on a fair amount of sleep debt.

Are there any black partners in your firm?

How are black associates viewed in general by the firm?

Is it all down to hard work for everyone?

Please be honest and give us an overview of your observations.


Of course there are black partners, and as far as black associates, I haven't seen any difference in how they're treated. They get the same amount of work as other associates and as far as I know have to work as well and as hard as everyone else. Here's the thing about Biglaw, from what I've seen, people don't care about your personal/racial/political affiliations, they don't really care about your home life (married, kids, etc.), what they care about is getting their work done. A partner isn't going to accept anything but high quality work, and anyone that doesn't deliver is gone. That's how associates are treated, as far as partners, once you get to that level, it's develop business or you're gone. I just think all other considerations are secondary to the bottom line.

User avatar
Dan Flavin
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:11 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby Dan Flavin » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:57 am

Could you rank the following in terms of their importance in securing a permanent offer:
1) Work Product
2) Hours put in
3) 2L Grades
4) Attending social events
5) Being well liked
6) Working in an active practice group (i.e., lit as opposed to corp)
7) Working in a single practice group rather than moving around

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby nealric » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:48 pm

1) Work Product
2) Hours put in
3) 2L Grades
4) Attending social events
5) Being well liked
6) Working in an active practice group (i.e., lit as opposed to corp)
7) Working in a single practice group rather than moving around


I have a family member who is a hiring partner. I've been told the following:

1. Work product. Great work product can trump most things. In the end, it's your work product that they are selling. Said hiring partner has given offers to people who were generally disliked and even made somewhat of an arse of themselves during firm events because their work product was excellent.
2. Being generally liked/desired. This collapses several of your points. If a practice group head tells the hiring partner "I want X", then X is going to get an offer barring some other extraordinary circumstances. There are of course, a variety of reasons why a partner would think that of a SA. It tends to be a mix of work product and personality. It also may depend on pre-law school experience that jives with the practice group.

Other factors fall into the "can only hurt you" category.

1. 2L grades won't matter unless they fall to the point of being worrisome. If you had a 3.7 1L year and a 2.7 2L year, that could cause problems. Falling from a 3.7 to a 3.6 is no big deal. By contrast, going from a 3.5 to a 3.7 probably won't really help you.

2. Practice group can cause a no-offer if you make them think that you are dead set on a practice group where they won't be needing anybody. Telling them, "All I've ever wanted to do is securitization work" could be problematic.

3. Don't anger anyone. Sounds easy enough, but you would be surprised. Make sure you know what expectations are RE: deadlines. If you tell someone you are going to do something, do it. Generally, don't be flaky. One of the main things that can sink a SA is someone from the firm complaining about them (even if it's kind of petty).

4. Being a complete social outcast can be a problem too. You don't need to be the life of the party, but if you spend all if your time staring at your shoes, people may speak ill of you.

5. General unprofessionalism. At said hiring partner's firm, there was once a summer who would walk around the office without shoes on (just socks). That kind of thing can also get you dinged.
Last edited by nealric on Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

3rdYrLitigator
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:52 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby 3rdYrLitigator » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:07 pm

nealric wrote:
1) Work Product
2) Hours put in
3) 2L Grades
4) Attending social events
5) Being well liked
6) Working in an active practice group (i.e., lit as opposed to corp)
7) Working in a single practice group rather than moving around


I have a family member who is a hiring partner. I've been told the following:

1. Work product. Great work product can trump most things. In the end, it's your work product that they are selling. Said hiring partner has given offers to people who were generally disliked and even made somewhat of an arse of themselves during firm events because their work product was excellent.
2. Being generally liked/desired. This collapses several of your points. If a practice group head tells the hiring partner "I want X", then X is going to get an offer barring some other extraordinary circumstances. There are of course, a variety of reasons why a partner would think that of a SA. It tends to be a mix of work product and personality. It also may depend on pre-law school experience that jives with the practice group.

Other factors fall into the "can only hurt you" category.

1. 2L grades won't matter unless they fall to the point of being worrisome. If you had a 3.7 1L year and a 2.7 2L year, that could cause problems. Falling from a 3.7 to a 3.6 is no big deal. By contrast, going from a 3.5 to a 3.7 probably won't really help you.

2. Practice group can cause a no-offer if you make them think that you are dead set on a practice group where they won't be needing anybody. Telling them, "All I've ever wanted to do is securitization work" could be problematic.

3. Don't anger anyone. Sounds easy enough, but you would be surprised. Make sure you know what expectations are RE: deadlines. If you tell someone you are going to do something, do it. Generally, don't be flaky. One of the main things that can sink a SA is someone from the firm complaining about them (even if it's kind of petty).

4. Being a complete social outcast can be a problem too. You don't need to be the life of the party, but if you spend all if your time staring at your shoes, people may speak ill of you.

5. General unprofessionalism. At said hiring partner's firm, there was once a summer who would around the office without shoes on (just socks). That kind of thing can also get you dinged.


I agree with all of this. I will say that this past year it looked like it was a little harder in regards to which groups you chose. At some firms, if you did a lot of work in a particular group that wasn't hiring, and no one in other groups got to know you, you were at risk. This wasn't a problem when I was coming through, but if you're interested in a slow group, I'd try to work with partners in other groups.

lsb
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:46 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby lsb » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:23 pm

nealric wrote:
1) Work Product
2) Hours put in
3) 2L Grades
4) Attending social events
5) Being well liked
6) Working in an active practice group (i.e., lit as opposed to corp)
7) Working in a single practice group rather than moving around


I have a family member who is a hiring partner. I've been told the following:

1. Work product. Great work product can trump most things. In the end, it's your work product that they are selling. Said hiring partner has given offers to people who were generally disliked and even made somewhat of an arse of themselves during firm events because their work product was excellent.
2. Being generally liked/desired. This collapses several of your points. If a practice group head tells the hiring partner "I want X", then X is going to get an offer barring some other extraordinary circumstances. There are of course, a variety of reasons why a partner would think that of a SA. It tends to be a mix of work product and personality. It also may depend on pre-law school experience that jives with the practice group.

Other factors fall into the "can only hurt you" category.

1. 2L grades won't matter unless they fall to the point of being worrisome. If you had a 3.7 1L year and a 2.7 2L year, that could cause problems. Falling from a 3.7 to a 3.6 is no big deal. By contrast, going from a 3.5 to a 3.7 probably won't really help you.

2. Practice group can cause a no-offer if you make them think that you are dead set on a practice group where they won't be needing anybody. Telling them, "All I've ever wanted to do is securitization work" could be problematic.

3. Don't anger anyone. Sounds easy enough, but you would be surprised. Make sure you know what expectations are RE: deadlines. If you tell someone you are going to do something, do it. Generally, don't be flaky. One of the main things that can sink a SA is someone from the firm complaining about them (even if it's kind of petty).

4. Being a complete social outcast can be a problem too. You don't need to be the life of the party, but if you spend all if your time staring at your shoes, people may speak ill of you.

5. General unprofessionalism. At said hiring partner's firm, there was once a summer who would walk around the office without shoes on (just socks). That kind of thing can also get you dinged.



LOL How stupid can people get

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby nealric » Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:04 pm

LOL How stupid can people get


I can kind of understand. I mean, it was always hot in my office when I was a SA. Sometimes it was nice to slip your shoes off under your desk. I can *kind of* see how someone might do that and just absent-mindedly walk out of their office to make a copy or something without putting their shoes back on.

TheJudge
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby TheJudge » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:37 am

PKSebben wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are there any black partners in your firm?

How are black associates viewed in general by the firm?

Is it all down to hard work for everyone?

Please be honest and give us an overview of your observations.



From what I can tell, AA get treated way differently. They are also allowed way more leeway when it comes to hours for instance. You know, my firm really likes to pay 160K a year for people that underperform.


And he's abusing the anonymous feature badly and thus gets outted. TheJudge, you are warned and are on thin ice.


Why? I made a sarcastic remark to someone's boneheaded question? I mean what is the poster thinking? Because he is URM he will get some sort of cushy postition and no one will dare give him any of the stressful stuff?

markakis
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:34 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby markakis » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:42 am

TheJudge wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are there any black partners in your firm?

How are black associates viewed in general by the firm?

Is it all down to hard work for everyone?

Please be honest and give us an overview of your observations.



From what I can tell, AA get treated way differently. They are also allowed way more leeway when it comes to hours for instance. You know, my firm really likes to pay 160K a year for people that underperform.


And he's abusing the anonymous feature badly and thus gets outted. TheJudge, you are warned and are on thin ice.


Why? I made a sarcastic remark to someone's boneheaded question? I mean what is the poster thinking? Because he is URM he will get some sort of cushy postition and no one will dare give him any of the stressful stuff?


I'm with you a 100%, TheJudge. I am an URM but it does get to me when some urms just seem to want a life-time free pass. It's almost as if they don't want to earn their keep anymore, which I find somewhat irritating

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby Renzo » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:24 am

TheJudge wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
And he's abusing the anonymous feature badly and thus gets outted. TheJudge, you are warned and are on thin ice.


Why? I made a sarcastic remark to someone's boneheaded question? I mean what is the poster thinking? Because he is URM he will get some sort of cushy postition and no one will dare give him any of the stressful stuff?


You should feel free to use sarcasm and to argue that people are boneheads, but don't try and hide in an anonymous post. Stand behind your sarcasm or keep it to yourself.

democrattotheend
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:04 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby democrattotheend » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:46 pm

Hi. Thanks for doing this...this thread has been very informative for me, even though I am only a 0L, because I think it's important to gain insight into what lawyers actually do before making the investment in law school. Threads like this are helpful because they go beyond what the firms tell you on their website and give insight into what it's actually like, so I appreciate your taking the time.

Here's my question: A lot of firms tout pro bono on their website, and many state that they give billable hours credit for pro bono and that they treat pro bono hours the same as other hours for bonuses, promotions, etc. Do they really mean that, or is it just PR? Is it looked down upon to do too much pro bono work, even if the firm gives billable hours credit? If so, how many hours of pro bono work are considered acceptable to count towards billable?

If you are not at a firm that gives billable credit for pro bono, my specific question may not be relevant, but either way, can you give me a general sense of how pro bono work is viewed by managing partners and other people who have a say in whether you stay or not?

User avatar
Kohinoor
Posts: 2756
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm with you a 100%, TheJudge. I am an URM but it does get to me when some urms just seem to want a life-time free pass. It's almost as if they don't want to earn their keep anymore, which I find somewhat irritating

You're abusing the anon feature.

markakis
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:34 am

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby markakis » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:27 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm with you a 100%, TheJudge. I am an URM but it does get to me when some urms just seem to want a life-time free pass. It's almost as if they don't want to earn their keep anymore, which I find somewhat irritating

You're abusing the anon feature.


Bite me

06072010
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:30 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby 06072010 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:38 pm

I'm going to out this poster, I think. Stop the abuse of the anon function.

06072010
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:30 pm

Re: Biglaw lawyer taking questions

Postby 06072010 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:46 pm

PKSebben wrote:I'm going to out this poster, I think. Stop the abuse of the anon function.


And banned.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.