Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

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steve_nash
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby steve_nash » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:09 pm

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Last edited by steve_nash on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:12 pm

steve_nash wrote:
gobucks101 wrote:Responses should go like this...
Person not going to Fordham: Nice! Way to go Fordham!
Person going to Fordham: What the hell? Ego won't make me get off this ramen noodle diet and pay my rent!


and this is exactly my response. if it were my school, i would be furious at it.


no steve_nash, the students -- nay, THE ENTIRE LEGAL COMMUNITY will applaud Fordham for sticking up for itself because it's always been some sort of underdog or something wildly incoherent.

Bold predictions: Reed Smith comes out with carefully crafted statement about client value, the economy, and the willingness to hire qualified Fordham students. Shortly followed by the Fordham asshat dean retreating from his earlier position.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:20 pm

PKSebben wrote:
steve_nash wrote:
gobucks101 wrote:Responses should go like this...
Person not going to Fordham: Nice! Way to go Fordham!
Person going to Fordham: What the hell? Ego won't make me get off this ramen noodle diet and pay my rent!


and this is exactly my response. if it were my school, i would be furious at it.


no steve_nash, the students -- nay, THE ENTIRE LEGAL COMMUNITY will applaud Fordham for sticking up for itself because it's always been some sort of underdog or something wildly incoherent.

Bold predictions: Reed Smith comes out with carefully crafted statement about client value, the economy, and the willingness to hire qualified Fordham students. Shortly followed by the Fordham asshat dean retreating from his earlier position.


Sounds about right.

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danquayle
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby danquayle » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:27 pm

rondemarino wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
steve_nash wrote:
gobucks101 wrote:Responses should go like this...
Person not going to Fordham: Nice! Way to go Fordham!
Person going to Fordham: What the hell? Ego won't make me get off this ramen noodle diet and pay my rent!


and this is exactly my response. if it were my school, i would be furious at it.


no steve_nash, the students -- nay, THE ENTIRE LEGAL COMMUNITY will applaud Fordham for sticking up for itself because it's always been some sort of underdog or something wildly incoherent.

Bold predictions: Reed Smith comes out with carefully crafted statement about client value, the economy, and the willingness to hire qualified Fordham students. Shortly followed by the Fordham asshat dean retreating from his earlier position.


Sounds about right.


Reed Smith hires Cardozo/Brooklyn students and deeper into the t-14. Is contented.

PK closes thread again.

pithypike
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby pithypike » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:33 pm

What price did Reed Smith pay? I'm not seeing anything harming them here.....if anything, FU just looks petulant.

Hitachi
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Hitachi » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:38 pm

The practical effect of what they did is identical to that of withdrawing after bids were submitted but before the schedules were created, and 15-20 firms at Michigan did that.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:01 pm

danquayle wrote:Reed Smith hires Cardozo/Brooklyn students and deeper into the t-14. Is contented.

PK closes thread again.


LOL. The nice simplistic picture is appealing, no? Also, Reed Smith isn't exactly the cream of the legal employer crop, at least in normal times. Fordham graduates are usually a little out of their recruiting league.

Play a fun game and count (LinkRemoved)...

(1) ... the number of HYS grads at RS
(2) ... the number of other T-14 grads at RS

Bonus: Why doesn't RS's attorney directory allow you search for attorneys by law school?

Look, I don't disagree that Fordham's Dean's e-mail was a incendiary. The wording, probably not the finest and there is a chance it MIGHT spook potential employers. But just like law students/schools will be quick to forgive the firms no-offering summers (or rescinding 3L offers after graduation) when the good times return, so too will law firms be quick to forgive schools like Fordham.

EDIT: removed redundant content, plus grammar fixes

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the fledgling
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby the fledgling » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:06 pm

Hmm. Well most of what I think has been said already. As a Fordham 0L I'm both pleased and displeased. Honor is a valuable trait, and symbolically this was a terrific idea, but five whole years? I'm glad that we all know RS is not exactly a "kind" employer (or in this case, potential employer)--maybe this publicity will force them to get their act together a bit, at least superficially--but I would've liked to at least have had the option of seeing them at OCI.

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danquayle
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby danquayle » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:12 pm

rondemarino wrote:
danquayle wrote:Reed Smith hires Cardozo/Brooklyn students and deeper into the t-14. Is contented.

PK closes thread again.


LOL. The nice simplistic picture is appealing, no? Also, Reed Smith isn't exactly the cream of the legal employer crop, at least in normal times. Fordham graduates are usually a little out of their recruiting league.

Play a fun game and count (LinkRemoved)...

(1) ... the number of HYS grads at RS
(2) ... the number of other T-14 grads at RS

Bonus: Why doesn't RS's attorney directory allow you search for attorneys by law school?

Look, I don't disagree that Fordham's Dean's e-mail was a incendiary. The wording, probably not the finest and there is a chance it MIGHT spook potential employers. But just like law students/schools will be quick to forgive the firms no-offering summers (or rescinding 3L offers after graduation) when the good times return, so too will law firms be quick to forgive schools like Fordham.

EDIT: removed redundant content, plus grammar fixes


I'm not saying its the best law firm in the world, but I think its foolish to spit in the eye of ANY potential employer. Particularly an employer that's as large as Reed Smith. I think its especially foolish when its someone particularly remote from the job market and its realities (read: 0L) that's doing the spitting.

Is Reed Smith a jerk law firm? Sure. I just really don't see how Fordham helped itself at all. What have they gained? As far as I know, Reed Smith still pays in US dollars. Fordham would have lost nothing by accepting it as a mere indication of the times.

Pride is the ultimate downfall of many a lawyer.

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thesealocust
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby thesealocust » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:28 pm

edit: nm
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:35 pm

thesealocust wrote:
rondemarino wrote:Play a fun game
(1) ... the number of HYS grads at RS
(2) ... the number of other T-14 grads at RS



I'm not sure what you did, but those numbers are extremely wrong. If you were using keyword search, I'm pretty sure that doesn't search the legal education field.

I searched for associates in the NY office and recorded the law school of the first 29 respondents (tried for 30, somehow missed one). Keep in mind that RS has 700+ attorneys.

Remember, this is a sample of 29 associates:

T-14: 3 (Northwestern x2, Georgetown)
Fordham: 4
Brooklyn Law School: 5
St. John's: 5
New York Law School: 2
BU: 2
Cardozo: 1

Other schools: W&L, Hastings, Rutgers, etc.

Take it in what sense thou whilt, and I wouldn't say it necessarily refutes your point - but your data was way off base.


?? I didn't supply any data. My only point was it isn't, or at least wasn't the destination of America's top law graduates. 3 out of 30 from the T-14, in that limited sample, doesn't exactly discount that assertion.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:38 pm

danquayle wrote:I'm not saying its the best law firm in the world, but I think its foolish to spit in the eye of ANY potential employer. Particularly an employer that's as large as Reed Smith. I think its especially foolish when its someone particularly remote from the job market and its realities (read: 0L) that's doing the spitting.

Is Reed Smith a jerk law firm? Sure. I just really don't see how Fordham helped itself at all. What have they gained? As far as I know, Reed Smith still pays in US dollars. Fordham would have lost nothing by accepting it as a mere indication of the times.

Pride is the ultimate downfall of many a lawyer.


Dean Treanor is a 0L?

Dude, if you've read my posts, it should be obvious that I don't disagree with you that much (on effect). I just qualify that by saying bending over for every legal employer isn't peaches and cream.

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thesealocust
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby thesealocust » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:39 pm

edit: nm
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gollymolly
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby gollymolly » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:00 pm

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Last edited by gollymolly on Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:13 pm

gollymolly wrote:I think nobody who is actually applying for jobs will appreciate this. Who will? 0Ls who don't know anything and graduates who don't care.


Probably not. Although I'm guessing no-offered summer associates and deferred graduates will. Again, Fordham's was not the most genius move (though I applaud heartily), but bending over for legal employers also has consequences - firms have felt free to rescind post-SA offers after graduation, no-offering summers, waiting till after 2Ls have committed to summer with them to let 2Ls know they'll be deferred till 2012. While I'll concede that this wasn't it, its in the direction of forcing employers to act with a little more transparency/good faith.

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:22 pm

Again, Fordham's was not the most genius move (though I applaud heartily)


QFP. I often cheer foolhardy decisions. That's why I'm a Mets fan.

gollymolly
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby gollymolly » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:23 pm

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Last edited by gollymolly on Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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neskerdoo
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby neskerdoo » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:32 pm

MrOrange wrote:
PKSebben wrote:I think this is a retarded move by Fordham. Is what Reed Smith did shitty? I don't know. It depends when they knew, I suppose. But Reed Smith is going to do what's best for the firm, and who cares about the fallout to law schools. Would I be personally upset -- maybe, but why waste an interview on students they're not going to hire in this economy. It's a buyer's market.

What Fordham doesn't want to do is make beef with employers right now and that's exactly what they've done. Reed Smith, nor any other firm, needs Fordham. They'll all go somewhere else. News flash: there are a lot of law schools. Even intimating that any firm needs any one law school is simply retarded. If you really believe this, you really -- REALLY -- need a reality check.

And even if they don't come to OCI, Fordham grads could probably still apply. So all they've done is make it a pain in the ass for Fordham students. Good job, Dean assface.

/thread.



yep

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby XxSpyKEx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:40 pm

As it was said before, I think this is going to hurt Fordham more then Reed Smith. Yeah. Reed Smith looks bad, but Fordham students lose jobs. Also the Dean being an asshat creates a negative connotation for the school in general. So now when a firm isn't sure whether they will need to hire from Fordham they won't even bother to sign up for Fordham's OCI. So subsequently when they find out they need to hire a large enough class where they could have hired Fordham students they will just hire at other schools (there isn't exactly a shortage of students that want to work biglaw). It'd be one thing if this was Harvard or Columbia telling them to go fuck off, but it's not.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:00 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:As it was said before, I think this is going to hurt Fordham more then Reed Smith. Yeah. Reed Smith looks bad, but Fordham students lose jobs. Also the Dean being an asshat creates a negative connotation for the school in general. So now when a firm isn't sure whether they will need to hire from Fordham they won't even bother to sign up for Fordham's OCI. So subsequently when they find out they need to hire a large enough class where they could have hired Fordham students they will just hire at other schools (there isn't exactly a shortage of students that want to work biglaw). It'd be one thing if this was Harvard or Columbia telling them to go fuck off, but it's not.


(a) There were no jobs for Fordham students to lose at Reed Smith. They pulled out of OCI.

(b) Yep, it could cost them employers in future years. Then again it could costs them employers who would end up deferring, or no-offering their graduates.

(c) I still don't see how everyone expects Fordham to pay a price when hiring returns to normal, but expects the firms that screwed over countless 3Ls in the last year not to pay a price.

(d) I also think you're underestimating Fordham's impact in this market. Reed Smith won't be getting T-14 grads to work for them in the good times. They need the Fordhams a little more than you might assume.

p.s: Its different how, if Harvard or Columbia is telling them to fuck off? I thought there was plenty of supply.

ace0260
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby ace0260 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:19 pm

Dean said that in the last seven years he hadn't encountered a firm canceling after its schedule came out. This may not sound like a big deal (indeed it doesn't to me), but if showing proper courtesy in this regard to the norm, then Fordham did not the right thing.

Anonymous User
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:27 pm

ace0260 wrote:Dean said that in the last seven years he hadn't encountered a firm canceling after its schedule came out. This may not sound like a big deal (indeed it doesn't to me), but if showing proper courtesy in this regard to the norm, then Fordham did not the right thing.



yes, because this year is exactly like the seven that came before it

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neskerdoo
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby neskerdoo » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ace0260 wrote:Dean said that in the last seven years he hadn't encountered a firm canceling after its schedule came out. This may not sound like a big deal (indeed it doesn't to me), but if showing proper courtesy in this regard to the norm, then Fordham did not the right thing.



yes, because this year is exactly like the seven that came before it




haha, oops this was me

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:31 pm

ace0260 wrote:Dean said that in the last seven years he hadn't encountered a firm canceling after its schedule came out. This may not sound like a big deal (indeed it doesn't to me), but if showing proper courtesy in this regard to the norm, then Fordham did not the right thing.


So the alternative is give false interview to Fordham students when you know that there will not be a lot of hiring happening, thus wasting their time that they could possible schedule another interview -- even if it was a door room sign up. If they knew several months ago -- shame on them. If they just made this decision now, Reed did the best thing they could. If I have to make the call between protecting the fragile egos of law students or doing what's ultimately best for my firm's economic health, I'm going with option B.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:35 pm

PKSebben wrote:
ace0260 wrote:Dean said that in the last seven years he hadn't encountered a firm canceling after its schedule came out. This may not sound like a big deal (indeed it doesn't to me), but if showing proper courtesy in this regard to the norm, then Fordham did not the right thing.


So the alternative is give false interview to Fordham students when you know that there will not be a lot of hiring happening, thus wasting their time that they could possible schedule another interview -- even if it was a door room sign up. If they knew several months ago -- shame on them. If they just made this decision now, Reed did the best thing they could. If I have to make the call between protecting the fragile egos of law students or doing what's ultimately best for my firm's economic health, I'm going with option B.


Not that this isn't related to B, but I think Reed Smith thinks it can do better than Fordham graduates at the moment. They are still interviewing at other schools and will have a summer program.




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