Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:05 pm

the fledgling wrote:Given Reed's statment, I sincerely hope Fordham retracts the 5-year ban. Although I don't want to belittle my school, it is hardly in a position to call others "unprofessional" because of a scheduling issue. Many of us are still awaiting confirmation of our student loans and classes start in just over a week.


LOL @ scheduling issue.

p.s: Don't worry Space Pope predicted an apology. It will come.

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CE2JD
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby CE2JD » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:07 pm

PKSebben wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Citing ATL because PK doesn't cite his sources: --LinkRemoved--


Citing your mom for that good sex we had.


Hmmmm... this post doesn't seem appropriate for the Legal Employment forum.

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the fledgling
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby the fledgling » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:08 pm

"Scheduling issue" as in RS opted out after Fordham's OCI schedule dropped. I'm well aware that RS isn't interviewing at Fordham because of its own "scheduling issue(s)."

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:13 pm

rondemarino wrote:
the fledgling wrote:Given Reed's statment, I sincerely hope Fordham retracts the 5-year ban. Although I don't want to belittle my school, it is hardly in a position to call others "unprofessional" because of a scheduling issue. Many of us are still awaiting confirmation of our student loans and classes start in just over a week.


LOL @ scheduling issue.

p.s: Don't worry Space Pope predicted an apology. It will come.


Space Pope did not predict an apology. He predicted a retreat from the five-year ban.

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thesealocust
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby thesealocust » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:16 pm

edit nm
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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the fledgling
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby the fledgling » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:19 pm

I'd take a retreat over an apology. At least there's a material benefit to a retreat.

And sorry for lashing out a bit sealocust. "Timing" would have been better than "scheduling." I'm in a sour mood and this little FU/RS spat is hardly helping...

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danquayle
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby danquayle » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:32 pm

rondemarino wrote:
danquayle wrote:I'm not saying its the best law firm in the world, but I think its foolish to spit in the eye of ANY potential employer. Particularly an employer that's as large as Reed Smith. I think its especially foolish when its someone particularly remote from the job market and its realities (read: 0L) that's doing the spitting.

Is Reed Smith a jerk law firm? Sure. I just really don't see how Fordham helped itself at all. What have they gained? As far as I know, Reed Smith still pays in US dollars. Fordham would have lost nothing by accepting it as a mere indication of the times.

Pride is the ultimate downfall of many a lawyer.


Dean Treanor is a 0L?

Dude, if you've read my posts, it should be obvious that I don't disagree with you that much (on effect). I just qualify that by saying bending over for every legal employer isn't peaches and cream.


I wasn't really referring to you, more the general notion that someone would rip on such a huge firm when they're so removed from the job market. I don't disagree with any of your points at all.

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danquayle
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby danquayle » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:43 pm

bigben wrote:Is it just me, or are 100% of the law students in this thread critical of the dean's actions, while 100% of the people in support of the dean are 0Ls?


This was entirely my point. Many of the people who are cheering on Fordham are people who haven't even had a law school class yet. Its my experience that 0Ls and 1Ls consistently under appreciate the sheer saturation in the legal market. I went to a higher up T1 and knew plenty of people with top 10% and law review credentials that couldn't break into Big Law. It just ain't that easy folks. If they don't go to Fordham, do you think they'll be crying in their Cheerios over having to hire someone from, say, Pitt Law?

The only schools that have the clout to pull this off are HYS - and that's it.

Edit: And how can a T-30 really be 'scrappy.' Wouldn't being T3 or T4 be a pre-requisite for that? NYLS students are going to have to scrap a lot harder for jobs than Fordham students...

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OperaAttorney
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby OperaAttorney » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:03 pm

danquayle wrote:
bigben wrote:Is it just me, or are 100% of the law students in this thread critical of the dean's actions, while 100% of the people in support of the dean are 0Ls?


This was entirely my point. Many of the people who are cheering on Fordham are people who haven't even had a law school class yet. Its my experience that 0Ls and 1Ls consistently under appreciate the sheer saturation in the legal market. I went to a higher up T1 and knew plenty of people with top 10% and law review credentials that couldn't break into Big Law. It just ain't that easy folks. If they don't go to Fordham, do you think they'll be crying in their Cheerios over having to hire someone from, say, Pitt Law?

The only schools that have the clout to pull this off are HYS - and that's it.

Edit: And how can a T-30 really be 'scrappy.' Wouldn't being T3 or T4 be a pre-requisite for that? NYLS students are going to have to scrap a lot harder for jobs than Fordham students...


I have some lawyer friends who applaud the dean's actions. I'm not sure it's a to-fully-understand-the-travails-of-finding-a-BIGLAW-job-you-must-be-a-3L thing. Perhaps it's because some people believe in honorable behavior and aren't willing to compromise standards just to get a job. Reed Smith is not the only law firm in NY.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:55 pm

the fledgling wrote:Given Reed's statment, I sincerely hope Fordham retracts the 5-year ban. Although I don't want to belittle my school, it is hardly in a position to call others "unprofessional" because of a scheduling issue. Many of us are still awaiting confirmation of our student loans and classes start in just over a week.


Fledgling, I think Dean Treanor will indeed lift the ban. I predict actual apologies on each side, though I don't know if they'll be made public.

The student loan issue might not be Fordham's fault, though. I just found out that my lender was sitting on my loan application, and wasn't even going to tell me that I needed a co-signer. As far as I know, this information never made it to the school, because the lender never processed it. I'm telling all my friends still waiting to call their lenders directly.

I stand by my earlier statement that this is kick-ass Fordham publicity. I do want both sides to work it out, though, and I expect that they will.

awesomepossum
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby awesomepossum » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:38 pm

As a person who's about to do EIW, I can say you don't want your school rocking the boat. A school like Fordham doesn't have clout with firms. RS may not be the most elite of firms, but plenty of people from top ten schools would take a job there. Fordham needs RS much more than the other way around.

Anonymous User
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:46 pm

awesomepossum wrote:As a person who's about to do EIW, I can say you don't want your school rocking the boat. A school like Fordham doesn't have clout with firms. RS may not be the most elite of firms, but plenty of people from top ten schools would take a job there. Fordham needs RS much more than the other way around.


What is EIW?

awesomepossum
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby awesomepossum » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:48 pm

early interview week.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:16 pm

awesomepossum wrote:As a person who's about to do EIW, I can say you don't want your school rocking the boat. A school like Fordham doesn't have clout with firms. RS may not be the most elite of firms, but plenty of people from top ten schools would take a job there ITE. Fordham needs RS much more than the other way around.


fixed

legends159
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby legends159 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:10 pm

Not to be overly pessimistic, but ITE = the new biglaw model.

Stop thinking things will go back to the gravy train times.

I personally wouldn't bite the hand that feeds me.

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MrOrange
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby MrOrange » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:00 pm

legends159 wrote:Not to be overly pessimistic, but ITE = the new biglaw model.

Stop thinking things will go back to the gravy train times.

I personally wouldn't bite the hand that feeds me.

Seriously...

...and why are certain people who shall remain nameless but not silent acting as though this is some brilliant PR move by Fordham's dean? It doesn't seem like a letter of the kind that was distributed was designed to be sent out all over the internet. Sure, the dean could probably have foreseen that someone might send it out there, but to credit him not only with predicting discussions of this kind, but also with correctly anticipating a positive return for his school (something which has yet to be determined...but which is highly doubtful), goes beyond ridiculous.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:45 pm

MrOrange wrote:
legends159 wrote:Not to be overly pessimistic, but ITE = the new biglaw model.

Stop thinking things will go back to the gravy train times.

I personally wouldn't bite the hand that feeds me.

Seriously...

...and why are certain people who shall remain nameless but not silent acting as though this is some brilliant PR move by Fordham's dean? It doesn't seem like a letter of the kind that was distributed was designed to be sent out all over the internet. Sure, the dean could probably have foreseen that someone might send it out there, but to credit him not only with predicting discussions of this kind, but also with correctly anticipating a positive return for his school (something which has yet to be determined...but which is highly doubtful), goes beyond ridiculous.


First of all, the public airing of this letter was extremely foreseeable. While I'm sure this wasn't intended primarily as a PR move, you can hardly deny that it's had that effect, and the dean would have known as much when he wrote the letter. As I said before, there's no way to guarantee that this won't have some effect on other firms that come to our OCI. It was a calculated risk. Most likely, however, this episode will have no lasting impact on Fordham, Reed Smith, or any other firms that do OCI here. Even if Fordham doesn't lift the ban, students will still send their resumes to RS, and the firm may or may not hire them as it sees fit. We're all making a mountain out of a molehill.

What results from this? A bit of press for Fordham (and some for Reed Smith, even if it is "negative"). A statement from RS telling the public that the firm doesn't think we suck. Most likely, a reconciliation sooner, rather than later. If I actually thought this letter was likely to damage Fordham in the eyes of employers, of course I'd be unhappy about it. It is, however, a tempest in a teapot. That's basically it.

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Conan
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Conan » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:10 pm

I can see where both sides of the arguments are coming from but we'll just have to see how this incident impacts Fordham in the next few years.
Anyway, as a Fordham 0L (or -1L to be technical), I'm damn proud of Dean Treanor and will support him to the end.
It's refreshing and almost amazing to see someone stepping up like that.... probably because I'm currently in a profession where no such thing exists.
Anyway, I'll end my Fordham/Dean Treanor trolling here.
BTW, long time no see OS. =)

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neskerdoo
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby neskerdoo » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:41 am

I am starting to think that operasoprano herself is nothing more than a PR stunt pulled by her bff Dean Treanor...

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:44 am

Conan wrote:I can see where both sides of the arguments are coming from but we'll just have to see how this incident impacts Fordham in the next few years.
Anyway, as a Fordham 0L (or -1L to be technical), I'm damn proud of Dean Treanor and will support him to the end.
It's refreshing and almost amazing to see someone stepping up like that.... probably because I'm currently in a profession where no such thing exists.
Anyway, I'll end my Fordham/Dean Treanor trolling here.
BTW, long time no see OS. =)


My dear Conan! We both have the kind of loyalty that basically doesn't exist anymore. :D

I won't forget your gallantry in giving me your seat when you decided to defer. I hope all is well with your family. May we meet in the coming year.

erick2naive
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby erick2naive » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:45 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
MrOrange wrote:
legends159 wrote:Not to be overly pessimistic, but ITE = the new biglaw model.

Stop thinking things will go back to the gravy train times.

I personally wouldn't bite the hand that feeds me.

Seriously...

...and why are certain people who shall remain nameless but not silent acting as though this is some brilliant PR move by Fordham's dean? It doesn't seem like a letter of the kind that was distributed was designed to be sent out all over the internet. Sure, the dean could probably have foreseen that someone might send it out there, but to credit him not only with predicting discussions of this kind, but also with correctly anticipating a positive return for his school (something which has yet to be determined...but which is highly doubtful), goes beyond ridiculous.


First of all, the public airing of this letter was extremely foreseeable. While I'm sure this wasn't intended primarily as a PR move, you can hardly deny that it's had that effect, and the dean would have known as much when he wrote the letter. As I said before, there's no way to guarantee that this won't have some effect on other firms that come to our OCI. It was a calculated risk. Most likely, however, this episode will have no lasting impact on Fordham, Reed Smith, or any other firms that do OCI here. Even if Fordham doesn't lift the ban, students will still send their resumes to RS, and the firm may or may not hire them as it sees fit. We're all making a mountain out of a molehill.

What results from this? A bit of press for Fordham (and some for Reed Smith, even if it is "negative"). A statement from RS telling the public that the firm doesn't think we suck. Most likely, a reconciliation sooner, rather than later. If I actually thought this letter was likely to damage Fordham in the eyes of employers, of course I'd be unhappy about it. It is, however, a tempest in a teapot. That's basically it.


would your position change if you were a columbia student?

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neskerdoo
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby neskerdoo » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:46 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
Conan wrote:I can see where both sides of the arguments are coming from but we'll just have to see how this incident impacts Fordham in the next few years.
Anyway, as a Fordham 0L (or -1L to be technical), I'm damn proud of Dean Treanor and will support him to the end.
It's refreshing and almost amazing to see someone stepping up like that.... probably because I'm currently in a profession where no such thing exists.
Anyway, I'll end my Fordham/Dean Treanor trolling here.
BTW, long time no see OS. =)


My dear Conan! We both have the kind of loyalty that basically doesn't exist anymore. :D

I won't forget your gallantry in giving me your seat when you decided to defer. I hope all is well with your family. May we meet in the coming year.



jesus god, why do you write posts like this

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:48 am

neskerdoo wrote:I am starting to think that operasoprano herself is nothing more than a PR stunt pulled by her bff Dean Treanor...


Well, he did go to Yale. If that kid who designed JMS could pull it off, Dean Treanor could probably invent me. I wish he wouldn't make his fictional creation borrow $225,000 to attend the school, though.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:48 am

neskerdoo wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Conan wrote:I can see where both sides of the arguments are coming from but we'll just have to see how this incident impacts Fordham in the next few years.
Anyway, as a Fordham 0L (or -1L to be technical), I'm damn proud of Dean Treanor and will support him to the end.
It's refreshing and almost amazing to see someone stepping up like that.... probably because I'm currently in a profession where no such thing exists.
Anyway, I'll end my Fordham/Dean Treanor trolling here.
BTW, long time no see OS. =)


My dear Conan! We both have the kind of loyalty that basically doesn't exist anymore. :D

I won't forget your gallantry in giving me your seat when you decided to defer. I hope all is well with your family. May we meet in the coming year.



jesus god, why do you write posts like this


Expressly to give you new material. :D

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:06 am

erick2naive wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
MrOrange wrote:
legends159 wrote:Not to be overly pessimistic, but ITE = the new biglaw model.

Stop thinking things will go back to the gravy train times.

I personally wouldn't bite the hand that feeds me.

Seriously...

...and why are certain people who shall remain nameless but not silent acting as though this is some brilliant PR move by Fordham's dean? It doesn't seem like a letter of the kind that was distributed was designed to be sent out all over the internet. Sure, the dean could probably have foreseen that someone might send it out there, but to credit him not only with predicting discussions of this kind, but also with correctly anticipating a positive return for his school (something which has yet to be determined...but which is highly doubtful), goes beyond ridiculous.


First of all, the public airing of this letter was extremely foreseeable. While I'm sure this wasn't intended primarily as a PR move, you can hardly deny that it's had that effect, and the dean would have known as much when he wrote the letter. As I said before, there's no way to guarantee that this won't have some effect on other firms that come to our OCI. It was a calculated risk. Most likely, however, this episode will have no lasting impact on Fordham, Reed Smith, or any other firms that do OCI here. Even if Fordham doesn't lift the ban, students will still send their resumes to RS, and the firm may or may not hire them as it sees fit. We're all making a mountain out of a molehill.

What results from this? A bit of press for Fordham (and some for Reed Smith, even if it is "negative"). A statement from RS telling the public that the firm doesn't think we suck. Most likely, a reconciliation sooner, rather than later. If I actually thought this letter was likely to damage Fordham in the eyes of employers, of course I'd be unhappy about it. It is, however, a tempest in a teapot. That's basically it.


would your position change if you were a columbia student?


If I was a Columbia student, I'd be too busy wondering who filled out my transfer applications, bribed Dean Iwerebon, and smuggled me uptown in the back of a large, unmarked vehicle. I suspect I'd be annoyed about the whole thing, but TLS would prevent me from transferring back. I know a couple of cool people up there, so I'd force myself to endure it. :lol:




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