Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

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06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:38 pm

rondemarino wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
ace0260 wrote:Dean said that in the last seven years he hadn't encountered a firm canceling after its schedule came out. This may not sound like a big deal (indeed it doesn't to me), but if showing proper courtesy in this regard to the norm, then Fordham did not the right thing.


So the alternative is give false interview to Fordham students when you know that there will not be a lot of hiring happening, thus wasting their time that they could possible schedule another interview -- even if it was a door room sign up. If they knew several months ago -- shame on them. If they just made this decision now, Reed did the best thing they could. If I have to make the call between protecting the fragile egos of law students or doing what's ultimately best for my firm's economic health, I'm going with option B.


Not that this isn't related to B, but I think Reed Smith thinks it can do better than Fordham graduates at the moment. They are still interviewing at other schools and will have a summer program.


All firms are going to be looking to "move up" in this economy. It only makes sense. If you're running a business and have a chance at more "top talent" -- at least as clients view it -- wouldn't you take that chance? I don't blame them.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:41 pm

Of course. Not blaming them. This is a bonanza for a firm with zero HYS grads. Just find it hard to believe that they JUST realized they could move up the recruitment food chain.

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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:47 pm

I'm starting at FU next week. I see this as a morale boost. This firm won't be at my OCI...this lowers my chances of biglaw hiring by < 1%. But I think it reaffirms the school's rep a bit. It's the otherwise low-ranked school that biglaw firms go to. It has to be sort of scrappy to keep that up...this is what it takes to maintain respect in the NY market, standing up for yourself when you're picked on, and vocally.

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neskerdoo
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby neskerdoo » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm starting at FU next week. I see this as a morale boost. This firm won't be at my OCI...this lowers my chances of biglaw hiring by < 1%. But I think it reaffirms the school's rep a bit. It's the otherwise low-ranked school that biglaw firms go to. It has to be sort of scrappy to keep that up...this is what it takes to maintain respect in the NY market, standing up for yourself when you're picked on, and vocally.



this characterization keeps popping up... well, at least in this thread, which is the first and only place I've ever seen it

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm starting at FU next week. I see this as a morale boost. This firm won't be at my OCI...this lowers my chances of biglaw hiring by < 1%. But I think it reaffirms the school's rep a bit. It's the otherwise low-ranked school that biglaw firms go to. It has to be sort of scrappy to keep that up...this is what it takes to maintain respect in the NY market, standing up for yourself when you're picked on, and vocally.


This is the type of stuff I find ridiculous. Law firms don't think of schools as scrappy. Employers go to Fordham because it's a good school and know they'll get good candidates. What they do like is an accommodating and understanding career services department that makes them want to come back. Anything your dean does to undermine that is fucking retarded, no matter how "scrappy" it makes them look.

Firms have pulled out of places all over the country and as Hitachi noted, the only practical effect is Fordham students feel butthurt over it because they've already been told they'll "have" an interview. At other schools where people have bid and then the firms pulled out, the only difference is they didn't get on the schedule. Some schools didn't adjust bids (Michigan didn't) so it's the same effect as what happened to Fordham. I'm sure 2L's will be glad Michigan did pop off their mouth at every employer that did this and ban them from OCI. Especially when they'd probably like to seem them back at 3L OCI.

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tome
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby tome » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:57 pm

Banning one nothing firm from your OCI for a few years does not harm Fordham students. To say it does is patently ridiculous. The question is really what the broader effect is: will other firms hold it against Fordham, will they not give a shit, or will they think twice about fucking with Fordham. I'd say these options are presented in order from least to most likely. Either way, I really don't see it having a serious effect at all, other than to galvanize and encourage the students at Fordham. Good move Dean.

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gobucks101
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby gobucks101 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:57 pm

Seriously, why does this whole underdog earning respect issue keep coming up? This is not "Rocky", this is "find me a job in this shitty economy please dear lord". At the end of the day, the net effect is that Fordham students will have one less firm that offers 160k starting salary offering employment for the next 5 years. Way to show them Dean.

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neskerdoo
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby neskerdoo » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:59 pm

tome wrote:Banning one nothing firm from your OCI for a few years does not harm Fordham students. To say it does is patently ridiculous. The question is really what the broader effect is: will other firms hold it against Fordham, will they not give a shit, or will they think twice about fucking with Fordham. I'd say these options are presented in order from least to most likely. Either way, I really don't see it having a serious effect at all, other than to galvanize and encourage the students at Fordham. Good move Dean.



well, you've certainly proven this beyond a shadow....

Da Stain
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Da Stain » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:59 pm

If it were me and my school, I'd be pissed, but also respect that the employer didn't want to waste my time. I don't know that my dean bullying them would make me feel better about the former, but I'd feel okay about not having the angst of waiting for a callback that wont come that comes with the latter.

My opinion in this market is that I respect the firms that man up and don't come to put on a show. If PR is the name of the game, I think the firms that pulled out played it right as far as perception with students goes. The firm that dicks you on interviews and offers is the firm that will dick you if you actually get hired.

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:59 pm

tome wrote:Banning one nothing firm from your OCI for a few years does not harm Fordham students. To say it does is patently ridiculous. The question is really what the broader effect is: will other firms hold it against Fordham, will they not give a shit, or will they think twice about fucking with Fordham. I'd say these options are presented in order from least to most likely. Either way, I really don't see it having a serious effect at all, other than to galvanize and encourage the students at Fordham. Good move Dean.


I figured another fan of Penny-Arcade would have more sense than this. This is not fucking with Fordham. This is a firm making an economic decision.

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:01 am

Da Stain wrote:If it were me and my school, I'd be pissed, but also respect that the employer didn't want to waste my time. I don't know that my dean bullying them would make me feel better about the former, but I'd feel okay about not having the angst of waiting for a callback that wont come that comes with the latter.

My opinion in this market is that I respect the firms that man up and don't come to put on a show. If PR is the name of the game, I think the firms that pulled out played it right as far as perception with students goes. The firm that dicks you on interviews and offers is the firm that will dick you if you actually get hired.


Absolutely.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:03 am

PKSebben wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm starting at FU next week. I see this as a morale boost. This firm won't be at my OCI...this lowers my chances of biglaw hiring by < 1%. But I think it reaffirms the school's rep a bit. It's the otherwise low-ranked school that biglaw firms go to. It has to be sort of scrappy to keep that up...this is what it takes to maintain respect in the NY market, standing up for yourself when you're picked on, and vocally.


This is the type of stuff I find ridiculous. Law firms don't think of schools as scrappy. Employers go to Fordham because it's a good school and know they'll get good candidates. What they do like is an accommodating and understanding career services department that makes them want to come back. Anything your dean does to undermine that is fucking retarded, no matter how "scrappy" it makes them look.

Firms have pulled out of places all over the country and as Hitachi noted, the only practical effect is Fordham students feel butthurt over it because they've already been told they'll "have" an interview. At other schools where people have bid and then the firms pulled out, the only difference is they didn't get on the schedule. Some schools didn't adjust bids (Michigan didn't) so it's the same effect as what happened to Fordham. I'm sure 2L's will be glad Michigan did pop off their mouth at every employer that did this and ban them from OCI. Especially when they'd probably like to seem them back at 3L OCI.


True. But if someone in pulling out of OCI at Michigan, its more likely the firm's summer program is in danger of being scrapped, and not a matter of that firm thinking they could do better? No?

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tome
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby tome » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:03 am

PKSebben wrote:Firms have pulled out of places all over the country


Common dude. RS had no idea that this was a likelihood? No heads-up to the school, even though they are still interviewing at other schools (I doubt thathappened at Michigan). What they did was out and out shitty, and it was a huge FU to FU. The dean at Fordham had the ball and conviction to stand up to them, and it was the right thing to do. It was what they deserved, it was the best thing for the law school, and it was the best thing for the students.

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tome
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby tome » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:05 am

neskerdoo wrote:
tome wrote:Banning one nothing firm from your OCI for a few years does not harm Fordham students. To say it does is patently ridiculous. The question is really what the broader effect is: will other firms hold it against Fordham, will they not give a shit, or will they think twice about fucking with Fordham. I'd say these options are presented in order from least to most likely. Either way, I really don't see it having a serious effect at all, other than to galvanize and encourage the students at Fordham. Good move Dean.



well, you've certainly proven this beyond a shadow....


It is about as well proven as the idea that doing nothing would have been better...

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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:06 am

PKSebben wrote:
This is the type of stuff I find ridiculous. Law firms don't think of schools as scrappy. Employers go to Fordham because it's a good school and know they'll get good candidates. What they do like is an accommodating and understanding career services department that makes them want to come back. Anything your dean does to undermine that is fucking retarded, no matter how "scrappy" it makes them look.


So you would never draw a line for a school "accommodating" a firm?

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cancelled02062010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby cancelled02062010 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:06 am

gobucks101 wrote:Seriously, why does this whole underdog earning respect issue keep coming up? This is not "Rocky", this is "find me a job in this shitty economy please dear lord". At the end of the day, the net effect is that Fordham students will have one less firm that offers 160k starting salary offering employment for the next 5 years. Way to show them Dean.



You're assuming that this firm will not be one of the many following the trend away from 160k starting salaries.

Additionally, just because there are many schools who have not said anything publicly does not mean that its a practice that a lot of schools are happy with. This take it on the chin mentality seems kind of like BS.

Firms seek top schools for grads because it makes them look good/better. In the end, there are still a lot of Fordham grads in highly respected firms, and many of them partners. The school took the back of it's students, good or bad the dean did what he thought was right.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:07 am

PKSebben wrote:
tome wrote:Banning one nothing firm from your OCI for a few years does not harm Fordham students. To say it does is patently ridiculous. The question is really what the broader effect is: will other firms hold it against Fordham, will they not give a shit, or will they think twice about fucking with Fordham. I'd say these options are presented in order from least to most likely. Either way, I really don't see it having a serious effect at all, other than to galvanize and encourage the students at Fordham. Good move Dean.


I figured another fan of Penny-Arcade would have more sense than this. This is not fucking with Fordham. This is a firm making an economic decision.


PK, I think the issue is how and when they did it. If they'd bothered to be polite and respectful, our dean would most likely have responded in kind. It happens that I agree with one of your earlier comments. I think firm and school will both back down, and this whole thing will be a distant memory by the time '12 does OCI.

It still made me pretty happy to see Fordham plastered all over ATL this afternoon. I used to work in PR. Trust me, this is great publicity, and it's free.

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:09 am

rondemarino wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm starting at FU next week. I see this as a morale boost. This firm won't be at my OCI...this lowers my chances of biglaw hiring by < 1%. But I think it reaffirms the school's rep a bit. It's the otherwise low-ranked school that biglaw firms go to. It has to be sort of scrappy to keep that up...this is what it takes to maintain respect in the NY market, standing up for yourself when you're picked on, and vocally.


This is the type of stuff I find ridiculous. Law firms don't think of schools as scrappy. Employers go to Fordham because it's a good school and know they'll get good candidates. What they do like is an accommodating and understanding career services department that makes them want to come back. Anything your dean does to undermine that is fucking retarded, no matter how "scrappy" it makes them look.

Firms have pulled out of places all over the country and as Hitachi noted, the only practical effect is Fordham students feel butthurt over it because they've already been told they'll "have" an interview. At other schools where people have bid and then the firms pulled out, the only difference is they didn't get on the schedule. Some schools didn't adjust bids (Michigan didn't) so it's the same effect as what happened to Fordham. I'm sure 2L's will be glad Michigan did pop off their mouth at every employer that did this and ban them from OCI. Especially when they'd probably like to seem them back at 3L OCI.


True. But if someone in pulling out of OCI at Michigan, its more likely the firm's summer program is in danger of being scrapped, and not a matter of that firm thinking they could do better? No?


Jesus, bro. No. My firm isn't interviewing at Michigan because it's in bum-fuck-Egypt (aka Ann Arbor). But they are interviewing at Fordham. Guess what market I work in? Let's see here -- do I think Reed Smith canceled interviews in Pittsburgh or Temple? I'd bet one of my ovaries they didn't.

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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:11 am

Apparently there are still a few kinks to work out of the system...
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

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thesealocust
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby thesealocust » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:11 am

edit: nm
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby Hitachi » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:12 am

Reed Smith cut salaries to 144K or lower already.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby D. H2Oman » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm starting at FU next week. I see this as a morale boost. This firm won't be at my OCI...this lowers my chances of biglaw hiring by < 1%. But I think it reaffirms the school's rep a bit. It's the otherwise low-ranked school that biglaw firms go to. It has to be sort of scrappy to keep that up...this is what it takes to maintain respect in the NY market, standing up for yourself when you're picked on, and vocally.



To be fair, didn't the Fordham Dean say that Fordham was not the only school that Reed Smith pulled out of this year. The fact is, Fordham wasn't getting picked on. I'll give you that Reed Smith looks like that don't have their shit together. But, why is it in Fordham's interest to embarrass the firm. I just think in the long run Fordham needs Reed more than Reed needs Fordham.


Attempted Analogy:

Fordham is like a guy who gets laid off, but decides to take it super personally. So when the economy picks up, and the jobs come back everyone else who got laid off with him, will have job offers to come back to the company. Fordham, on the other hand, will not, because when Fordham got laid off instead of taking with class they decided to send the boss a big "fuck you" and egg his house.

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rondemarino
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby rondemarino » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:13 am

PKSebben wrote:
rondemarino wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm starting at FU next week. I see this as a morale boost. This firm won't be at my OCI...this lowers my chances of biglaw hiring by < 1%. But I think it reaffirms the school's rep a bit. It's the otherwise low-ranked school that biglaw firms go to. It has to be sort of scrappy to keep that up...this is what it takes to maintain respect in the NY market, standing up for yourself when you're picked on, and vocally.


This is the type of stuff I find ridiculous. Law firms don't think of schools as scrappy. Employers go to Fordham because it's a good school and know they'll get good candidates. What they do like is an accommodating and understanding career services department that makes them want to come back. Anything your dean does to undermine that is fucking retarded, no matter how "scrappy" it makes them look.

Firms have pulled out of places all over the country and as Hitachi noted, the only practical effect is Fordham students feel butthurt over it because they've already been told they'll "have" an interview. At other schools where people have bid and then the firms pulled out, the only difference is they didn't get on the schedule. Some schools didn't adjust bids (Michigan didn't) so it's the same effect as what happened to Fordham. I'm sure 2L's will be glad Michigan did pop off their mouth at every employer that did this and ban them from OCI. Especially when they'd probably like to seem them back at 3L OCI.


True. But if someone in pulling out of OCI at Michigan, its more likely the firm's summer program is in danger of being scrapped, and not a matter of that firm thinking they could do better? No?


Jesus, bro. No. My firm isn't interviewing at Michigan because it's in bum-fuck-Egypt (aka Ann Arbor). But they are interviewing at Fordham. Guess what market I work in? Let's see here -- do I think Reed Smith canceled interviews in Pittsburgh or Temple? I'd bet one of my ovaries they didn't.


Um... I was genuinely curious. Just assumed offices in every market would flock to Michigan.

06072010
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby 06072010 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:13 am

tome wrote:
PKSebben wrote:Firms have pulled out of places all over the country


Common dude. RS had no idea that this was a likelihood? No heads-up to the school, even though they are still interviewing at other schools (I doubt thathappened at Michigan). What they did was out and out shitty, and it was a huge FU to FU. The dean at Fordham had the ball and conviction to stand up to them, and it was the right thing to do. It was what they deserved, it was the best thing for the law school, and it was the best thing for the students.


They didn't say "fuck off" to Fordham. What they said is that they're canceling their interviews -- and I bet you my other ovary that they asked for a resume drop from these students, too. Reed Smith is certainly looking to recruit top talent at Fordham -- I bet they put out a statement tomorrow to that effect. This whole "boo hoo RS is going to other schools and not Fordham and so we're obviously lesser people than the C/N students" is getting a little old.

*BAM*

You are now hiring partner at a law firm. You can interview at TWO schools in NYC. POP QUIZ HOTSHOT: WHICH TWO ARE THEY?

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neskerdoo
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Re: Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price!

Postby neskerdoo » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:15 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
tome wrote:Banning one nothing firm from your OCI for a few years does not harm Fordham students. To say it does is patently ridiculous. The question is really what the broader effect is: will other firms hold it against Fordham, will they not give a shit, or will they think twice about fucking with Fordham. I'd say these options are presented in order from least to most likely. Either way, I really don't see it having a serious effect at all, other than to galvanize and encourage the students at Fordham. Good move Dean.


I figured another fan of Penny-Arcade would have more sense than this. This is not fucking with Fordham. This is a firm making an economic decision.


PK, I think the issue is how and when they did it. If they'd bothered to be polite and respectful, our dean would most likely have responded in kind. It happens that I agree with one of your earlier comments. I think firm and school will both back down, and this whole thing will be a distant memory by the time '12 does OCI.

It still made me pretty happy to see Fordham plastered all over ATL this afternoon. I used to work in PR. Trust me, this is great publicity, and it's free.



I don't trust you.. why do you insist this is 'great' publicity??




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