Fordham Makes Reed Smith Pay a Price! Forum

[D. H2Oman]

[Da Stain]

Here's a story OS:

A friend of mine at a v20 firm was an SA this summer. She was talking to one of their recruiting people, who told her that someone from career services at a T-14 school reamed her out when she told them they were pulling out in about June. Basically, it was that school's response to everyone who pulled out. No one's wrong in the situation really, but get over the idea that RS called your dean and said your students are too shitty for us to interview.

(For those who read ATL, I probably didn't do a good job of hiding the school given the ranking and the timing, but whatever. I don't like them anyway.... )

Stain, I don't think that. RS hired Fordham students in the past, so evidence suggests that their hiring partners don't take this view. I wish I knew exactly what RS said to Fordham. It's quite possible that this was a legitimate misunderstanding, in which case I'll probably see RS at my own OCI.

I think you see my point then. Schools are all pissed at firms dittching. Shit, we've had better firms than RS pull out at UVA. I think this was a knee-jerk reaction to a growing trend, but your dean should have known better. Anything you send to 300-400 law students will end up on ATL, and he knew that when he did it.

[OperaSoprano]

All I know is that everything is going to shit. A friend just got no-offered. These things cease being abstract when they happen to people we care about. Anyway, do we know the manner in which the firm pulled out? If they'd done it politely, and apologized to the school for inconveniencing students, Dean Treanor would probably have accepted their apology and moved on. A lot depends on how the news is delivered. Even if we give RS the benefit of the doubt, did they handle the pull-out in a manner suggesting that they wanted to preserve their relationship with Fordham?

dude, he is the dean of the school you started at yesterday.... what is with you continually making it sound like you guys are old chums?

I'm assuming he would act the way a reasonable person would act. He took a calculated risk in doing this, certainly, and I have a personal interest in the result.

[Da Stain]

Have you ever met anyone from Yale? They are far from reasonable.

[thesealocust]

edit: nm

[OperaSoprano]

Here's a story OS:

A friend of mine at a v20 firm was an SA this summer. She was talking to one of their recruiting people, who told her that someone from career services at a T-14 school reamed her out when she told them they were pulling out in about June. Basically, it was that school's response to everyone who pulled out. No one's wrong in the situation really, but get over the idea that RS called your dean and said your students are too shitty for us to interview.

(For those who read ATL, I probably didn't do a good job of hiding the school given the ranking and the timing, but whatever. I don't like them anyway.... )

Stain, I don't think that. RS hired Fordham students in the past, so evidence suggests that their hiring partners don't take this view. I wish I knew exactly what RS said to Fordham. It's quite possible that this was a legitimate misunderstanding, in which case I'll probably see RS at my own OCI.

I think you see my point then. Schools are all pissed at firms dittching. Shit, we've had better firms than RS pull out at UVA. I think this was a knee-jerk reaction to a growing trend, but your dean should have known better. Anything you send to 300-400 law students will end up on ATL, and he knew that when he did it.

Credited. That's probably why he did it. In the long run, though, it won't hurt RS or Fordham, and in the short run, here we are talking about my school at 1:00 am in a seven page thread. I don't think this action will have lasting consequences for the firm or the school, which is why I smile at it instead of condemning it.

I certainly feel for the kids at UVA, though. No one deserves to be treated with contempt. There is a way to break bad news with diplomacy, but it seems to be lost on a few hiring partners.

[OperaSoprano]

I'm an 0L but it seems to me (and feel free to set me straight if im wrong) that Fordham's decision to put out this memo was simply done to 1. placate the student body and 2. to get people talking about Fordham. It was free publicity, right? i mean, we already have 7 pages here on TLS devoted to it, and will many more coming im sure. If anything, it raises the school's profile and I'm sure it convinces people to send apps over there. Now, im not saying that students will pick fordham over columbia or nyu, but it does make people think (rightly or wrongly) that the school will fight for its students (even if its actions are ill advised).

hmm... there's a decent point there - the fact that his generates so much talk is kind of an implicit endorsement of Fordham. Like, something bad happens at Harvard (like oh I don'y know, an official says wimin can't do math and science or a professor is arrested in his own home) and we go fucking nuts talking about it. Why? Not necessarily because harvard was right or is covering itself in glory - but because it's fucking harvard and that makes anything that happens to it interesting. As noted if Cooley had done this, there would be 7 posts instead of 7 pages. So I'll grant that it probably does, in a twisted way, raise fordham's status / name recognition.

Mostly this thread is a great excuse to put off packing.

Yep. I said that several pages ago. Treanor knew exactly what he was doing. School and firm will mend the rift, and then we'll get on with our lives.

[rondemarino]

Here's a story OS:

A friend of mine at a v20 firm was an SA this summer. She was talking to one of their recruiting people, who told her that someone from career services at a T-14 school reamed her out when she told them they were pulling out in about June. Basically, it was that school's response to everyone who pulled out. No one's wrong in the situation really, but get over the idea that RS called your dean and said your students are too shitty for us to interview.

(For those who read ATL, I probably didn't do a good job of hiding the school given the ranking and the timing, but whatever. I don't like them anyway.... )

Stain, I don't think that. RS hired Fordham students in the past, so evidence suggests that their hiring partners don't take this view. I wish I knew exactly what RS said to Fordham. It's quite possible that this was a legitimate misunderstanding, in which case I'll probably see RS at my own OCI.

I think you see my point then. Schools are all pissed at firms dittching. Shit, we've had better firms than RS pull out at UVA. I think this was a knee-jerk reaction to a growing trend, but your dean should have known better. Anything you send to 300-400 law students will end up on ATL, and he knew that when he did it.

Credited. That's probably why he did it. In the long run, though, it won't hurt RS or Fordham, and in the short run, here we are talking about my school at 1:00 am in a seven page thread. I don't think this action will have lasting consequences for the firm or the school, which is why I smile at it instead of condemning it.

I certainly feel for the kids at UVA, though. No one deserves to be treated with contempt. There is a way to break bad news with diplomacy, but it seems to be lost on a few hiring partners.

Yeah. I'm not buying brilliant-PR-as-motive theory. I think Dean Treanor, after witnessing the frustrations students have had to deal with, decided to throw an elbow to let firms know that there are limits. I highly doubt this was[strike]n't[/strike] an ingenious plot to raise the profile of Fordham.

[OperaSoprano]

Yeah. I'm not buying brilliant-PR-as-motive theory. I think Dean Treanor, after witnessing the frustrations students have had to deal with, decided to throw an elbow to let firms know that there are limits. I highly doubt this was[strike]n't[/strike] an ingenious plot to raise the profile of Fordham.

Cool story. I mean, it's possible, but Dean Treanor must have at least considered the PR angle. I don't think he would have done this without looking at it from all sides. I mean, his Yale-grad status doesn't guarantee the soundness of all his decisions, but it does demonstrate that he's at least capable of critical thinking.

From a PR standpoint, there's no denying that it worked. That ends the thread.

[ealwcml]

I actually think this helps Reed Smith in the long run.

This year and next I imagine that a number of firms will take the opposite route of Reed Smith. These firms will conduct interviews at schools in the 15+ range but will make zero offers. Well ranked students will place bids, interview, and receive no offers. These firms will develop a reputation. In the following years the best students won't bid on them because they don't want to waste their bids.

Reed Smith, on the other hand, will receive bids from the better students because when they decide to interview at a school, students know that they're interested in hiring.

But I'm an idiot 0L.

Edit: I shouldn't say this helps Reed Smith. I do, however, think it's better than the alternative.

[rondemarino]

I actually think this helps Reed Smith in the long run.

This year and next I imagine that a number of firms will take the opposite route of Reed Smith. These firms will conduct interviews at schools in the 15+ range but will make zero offers. Well ranked students will place bids, interview, and receive no offers. These firms will develop a reputation. In the following years the best students won't waste bids on them because they don't want to waste their bids.

Reed Smith, on the other hand, will receive bids from the better students because when they decide to interview at a school, students know that they're interested in hiring.

But I'm an idiot 0L.

Counting on the more prestigious firms being too stupid to figure this out?

[ealwcml]

I actually think this helps Reed Smith in the long run.

This year and next I imagine that a number of firms will take the opposite route of Reed Smith. These firms will conduct interviews at schools in the 15+ range but will make zero offers. Well ranked students will place bids, interview, and receive no offers. These firms will develop a reputation. In the following years the best students won't waste bids on them because they don't want to waste their bids.

Reed Smith, on the other hand, will receive bids from the better students because when they decide to interview at a school, students know that they're interested in hiring.

But I'm an idiot 0L.

Counting on the more prestigious firms being too stupid to figure this out?

?

[uphill]

It makes him and Fordham look bad. It's unprofessional. There is no need for a 'ban'. He's not the students' father figure; he doesn't need to 'look out' for them or for Fordham.

If this firm, like other firms, needs talent the like of which Fordham alumni offer, then that talent will speak for itself, students will continue landing jobs on their merits, and the fact that this firm canceled OCI will leave no lasting damage (on the students who were disappointed, on the school's reputation, or on future students' prospects) . If the students are talented then they will do fine.

Because of this, whether the firm acted irresponsibly or was impolite in the way it handled things is also irrelevant--- because if the students are going to do well anyway, then there isn't a need to respond to the firm's actions in a defensive way; in other words, it wasn't damaging to the students. But to react like this sends the message that the school is "hurt".

It really comes off as petty on the Dean's part. This sort of 'tit for tat' response really does not benefit the students in any way. It doesn't raise the school's prestige, nor does it earn more respect by doing this. What it actually does is damage a relationship with a firm (the firm's prestige or position on a list isn't relevant; it would've been unprofessional anyway). The students benefit from these relationships to land jobs.

Whether this is good PR is also impossible to tell. As has been mentioned, other firms could see this and wince at the Dean's message as a low-blow; others could now covet Fordham students more. It can go either way.

The point is, if Fordham were the institution with the self-respect and dignity that the Dean seems to intend to communicate it has, then it wouldn't lower itself to this kind of public humiliation (or attempt at one). If things had stayed quiet, it would've been better. It would've sent a more positive message from Fordham if the Dean had stayed quiet about it, or if he had sent an announcement stating that the firm would not be conducting interviews, but without deriding its actions.

[98234872348]

Reed Smith is still allowing Fordham Students to interview at their offices, FWIW. I anticipate an apology forthcoming from Fordham in the near future.

Source: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1 ... Interviews

[thesealocust]

edit nm

[06072010]

Ha! Called it.

[thesealocust]

edit nm

[06072010]

Ha! Called it.

Oh come on, you said apology, and I didn't read anything conciliatory in that article.

I don't think I said Reed Smith would apologize.

[06072010]

Bold predictions: Reed Smith comes out with carefully crafted statement about client value, the economy, and the willingness to hire qualified Fordham students. Shortly followed by the Fordham asshat dean retreating from his earlier position.

The first part of my prophecy has come true for the most part. Waiting on the second. I'm like the goddamn Space Pope.

[thesealocust]

edit nm

[06072010]

Like every major law firm, Reed Smith is faced with a very difficult set of circumstances brought on by the global recession which has dramatically reduced the demand for legal services. This has resulted in layoffs, deferrals, fewer offers and now consideration about whether to have a 2010 Summer Program, and if so, at what size. Firms have taken a variety of approaches to handling the many issues raised by this environment. In all instances, Reed Smith has tried to make carefully considered business decisions and has communicated with the people affected by those decisions.

We have decided to maintain a 2010 Summer Program, although it will be a smaller program than in prior years. Because it will be a significantly smaller program, we decided to reduce the number of schools we will visit for on-campus interviews. We immediately and directly discussed our decision with all the law schools affected, including Fordham. We've indicated to them that while we won't be coming on campus, we will still be considering students from their schools by reviewing resumes and conducting in-office interviews.

Fordham is an outstanding law school and we regret that our decision has caused problems for them. Reed Smith has many Fordham graduates in our lawyer ranks; all of them valued members of our team. We look forward to discussing this matter directly with Fordham and finding a way to continue our long and successful relationship with them.

[CE2JD]

Citing ATL because PK doesn't cite his sources: --LinkRemoved--

[06072010]

Citing ATL because PK doesn't cite his sources: --LinkRemoved--

Citing your mom for that good sex we had.

[MrOrange]

Bold predictions: Reed Smith comes out with carefully crafted statement about client value, the economy, and the willingness to hire qualified Fordham students. Shortly followed by the Fordham asshat dean retreating from his earlier position.

The first part of my prophecy has come true for the most part. Waiting on the second. I'm like the goddamn Space Pope.

[the fledgling]

Given Reed's statment, I sincerely hope Fordham retracts the 5-year ban. Although I don't want to belittle my school, it is hardly in a position to call others "unprofessional" because of a scheduling issue. Many of us are still awaiting confirmation of our student loans and classes start in just over a week.