OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

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GodSpeed
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby GodSpeed » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:20 pm

notanumber wrote:I know it's been mentioned in this thread before, but it should be reiterated: Everybody should just suck it up and buy a pair of black Allen Edmonds Park Avenues (http://www.zappos.com/allen-edmonds-park-avenue). They may seem expensive but they are well made (in America) and with shoe trees they will last for years. It's the go-to shoe when you want to project the inoffensive and safe "corporate drone" image. People who are fashion conscious will recognize the shoes and realize that you made the conscious choice to project this image, which will be a good thing. People who are not fashion conscious will likely not notice the shoes at all, which is also a good thing.

http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/3122551?cm_ ... erralID=NA

$219 at Nordstrom

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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby notanumber » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:34 pm

Waterman47 wrote:
notanumber wrote:It's the go-to shoe when you want to project the inoffensive and safe "corporate drone" image.


I'm starting to think there should be two separate fashion threads: one for all those who wish to don the "corporate drone" costume, and another for those who aren't afraid to inject some subtle hints of personal style even in situations that call for conservative dress. The former thread would be quite short.


The time and place for those "hints of personal style" is after you've gotten the offer and figured out what the spoken/unspoken dress code of the office is. I'm all for wearing brown shoes. I like the OCBD/suit look. Hell, I even wear seersucker and bow ties with some frequency. But not to a job interview for a major corporate law firm. Your personal style probably wouldn't offend anybody, but why take that unnecessary risk? Just suck it up and dress like a tool for a couple of hours. You have the rest of your life to express yourself.

GodSpeed wrote: $219 at Nordstrom


Good find. That's a solid deal on the shoes.

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HJO
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby HJO » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:35 pm

Waterman47 wrote:I'd wear brown, but a much darker brown than that. I think that shade of brown is a bit casual. And I hate that toe-cap style. Looks like something an old man would wear.

Pair of brown shoes I would wear to an interview:

http://www.bluefly.com/Ferragamo-hickor ... detail.fly

This is an expensive example, but there are many cheaper versions around. Notice that the sole and the top are the same color. This is much, much better than the black sole/brown shoe look.

I think, generally, if you're going to break from the mold in interviews/office settings, you've got to do it well. IMO wearing the light brown pair will make you look clueless, if the person conducting the interview is at all fashion conscious. But if you wear something like the Ferragamo pair, you could stand out for your chicness.


Your advice is not credited. If by fashion you mean euro and by conscious you mean trash then I agree that those shoes are a good look. I know brown is a less formal color than black, but it looks better with a navy suit and red tie (to me). Also, fashion conscious people don't wear brown and blue together? c'mon son. Also, who says chic? We have to do better.

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Waterman47
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby Waterman47 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:38 pm

HJO wrote:
Waterman47 wrote:I'd wear brown, but a much darker brown than that. I think that shade of brown is a bit casual. And I hate that toe-cap style. Looks like something an old man would wear.

Pair of brown shoes I would wear to an interview:

http://www.bluefly.com/Ferragamo-hickor ... detail.fly

This is an expensive example, but there are many cheaper versions around. Notice that the sole and the top are the same color. This is much, much better than the black sole/brown shoe look.

I think, generally, if you're going to break from the mold in interviews/office settings, you've got to do it well. IMO wearing the light brown pair will make you look clueless, if the person conducting the interview is at all fashion conscious. But if you wear something like the Ferragamo pair, you could stand out for your chicness.


Your advice is not credited. If by fashion you mean euro and by conscious you mean trash then I agree that those shoes are a good look. I know brown is a less formal color than black, but it looks better with a navy suit and red tie (to me). Also, fashion conscious people don't wear brown and blue together? c'mon son. Also, who says chic? We have to do better.


Never said anything about wearing blue and brown together, "son". I said that shade of brown is casual, that huge black sole looks horrible with that shade of brown, and that style of shoe is not fashionable.

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Waterman47
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby Waterman47 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:45 pm

notanumber wrote:
Waterman47 wrote:
notanumber wrote:It's the go-to shoe when you want to project the inoffensive and safe "corporate drone" image.


I'm starting to think there should be two separate fashion threads: one for all those who wish to don the "corporate drone" costume, and another for those who aren't afraid to inject some subtle hints of personal style even in situations that call for conservative dress. The former thread would be quite short.


The time and place for those "hints of personal style" is after you've gotten the offer and figured out what the spoken/unspoken dress code of the office is. I'm all for wearing brown shoes. I like the OCBD/suit look. Hell, I even wear seersucker and bow ties with some frequency. But not to a job interview for a major corporate law firm. Your personal style probably wouldn't offend anybody, but why take that unnecessary risk? Just suck it up and dress like a tool for a couple of hours. You have the rest of your life to express yourself.

GodSpeed wrote: $219 at Nordstrom


Good find. That's a solid deal on the shoes.


I appreciate that you call it what it is, but I still would never go into an interview thinking "dress like a corporate drone." Couldn't do it. And I do understand and agree with your point about showcasing your personal style more after you get an offer, but I still think there's a bit of room to do so at the interview stage. There are a number of things I wouldn't wear to an interview, but at the same time I would never limit myself to one style of shoe, one color suit, one type of tie, etc.

And about this whole "risk" argument, what exactly are you risking by wearing, for example, a dark mahogany pair of simple dress shoes with a matching belt? I'd understand if we were talking about going to an interview in the Islamic Republic of Iran wearing a tie, but I really don't see a reason to be so conformist in the context of a firm interview. Do you really think partners are going to be judging you by the particular shade of your shoes if your general style of dress is conservative and respectful to the situation? If so, I would purposely wear something a bit "off" to avoid a firm run by such people.

Again, I understand that there are certain parameters of dress for an interview, and that these parameters can be expanded once you begin a job. But I think many posters in this thread set these parameters much narrower than they need to be.

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zettsscores40
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby zettsscores40 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:48 pm

notanumber wrote:
Waterman47 wrote:
notanumber wrote:It's the go-to shoe when you want to project the inoffensive and safe "corporate drone" image.


I'm starting to think there should be two separate fashion threads: one for all those who wish to don the "corporate drone" costume, and another for those who aren't afraid to inject some subtle hints of personal style even in situations that call for conservative dress. The former thread would be quite short.


The time and place for those "hints of personal style" is after you've gotten the offer and figured out what the spoken/unspoken dress code of the office is. I'm all for wearing brown shoes. I like the OCBD/suit look. Hell, I even wear seersucker and bow ties with some frequency. But not to a job interview for a major corporate law firm. Your personal style probably wouldn't offend anybody, but why take that unnecessary risk? Just suck it up and dress like a tool for a couple of hours. You have the rest of your life to express yourself.

GodSpeed wrote: $219 at Nordstrom


Good find. That's a solid deal on the shoes.


lol says the guy who wants to rock a button down collar with a suit.

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GodSpeed
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby GodSpeed » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:51 pm

Waterman47 wrote:
notanumber wrote:
Waterman47 wrote:
notanumber wrote:It's the go-to shoe when you want to project the inoffensive and safe "corporate drone" image.


I'm starting to think there should be two separate fashion threads: one for all those who wish to don the "corporate drone" costume, and another for those who aren't afraid to inject some subtle hints of personal style even in situations that call for conservative dress. The former thread would be quite short.


The time and place for those "hints of personal style" is after you've gotten the offer and figured out what the spoken/unspoken dress code of the office is. I'm all for wearing brown shoes. I like the OCBD/suit look. Hell, I even wear seersucker and bow ties with some frequency. But not to a job interview for a major corporate law firm. Your personal style probably wouldn't offend anybody, but why take that unnecessary risk? Just suck it up and dress like a tool for a couple of hours. You have the rest of your life to express yourself.

GodSpeed wrote: $219 at Nordstrom


Good find. That's a solid deal on the shoes.


I appreciate that you call it what it is, but I still would never go into an interview thinking "dress like a corporate drone." Couldn't do it. And I do understand and agree with your point about showcasing your personal style more after you get an offer, but I still think there's a bit of room to do so at the interview stage. There are a number of things I wouldn't wear to an interview, but at the same time I would never limit myself to one style of shoe, one color suit, one type of tie, etc.

And about this whole "risk" argument, what exactly are you risking by wearing, for example, a dark mahogany pair of simple dress shoes with a matching belt? I'd understand if we were talking about going to an interview in the Islamic Republic of Iran wearing a tie, but I really don't see a reason to be so conformist in the context of a firm interview. Do you really think partners are going to be judging you by the particular shade of your shoes if your general style of dress is conservative and respectful to the situation? If so, I would purposely wear something a bit "off" to avoid a firm run by such people.

Again, I understand that there are certain parameters of dress for an interview, and that these parameters can be expanded once you begin a job. But I think many posters in this thread set these parameters much narrower than they need to be.

We've been through this.

They aren't going to say "outstanding shade of brown and I like toe caps, hired!" They are going to think "Light brown shoes/blue tie/stupid pocket square/etc for a big law job? Eh, this kid doesn't really know the rules of the road."

You don't gain points with your dress- only lose.

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Waterman47
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby Waterman47 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:56 pm

GodSpeed wrote:
Waterman47 wrote:
notanumber wrote:
The time and place for those "hints of personal style" is after you've gotten the offer and figured out what the spoken/unspoken dress code of the office is. I'm all for wearing brown shoes. I like the OCBD/suit look. Hell, I even wear seersucker and bow ties with some frequency. But not to a job interview for a major corporate law firm. Your personal style probably wouldn't offend anybody, but why take that unnecessary risk? Just suck it up and dress like a tool for a couple of hours. You have the rest of your life to express yourself.

GodSpeed wrote: $219 at Nordstrom


Good find. That's a solid deal on the shoes.


I appreciate that you call it what it is, but I still would never go into an interview thinking "dress like a corporate drone." Couldn't do it. And I do understand and agree with your point about showcasing your personal style more after you get an offer, but I still think there's a bit of room to do so at the interview stage. There are a number of things I wouldn't wear to an interview, but at the same time I would never limit myself to one style of shoe, one color suit, one type of tie, etc.

And about this whole "risk" argument, what exactly are you risking by wearing, for example, a dark mahogany pair of simple dress shoes with a matching belt? I'd understand if we were talking about going to an interview in the Islamic Republic of Iran wearing a tie, but I really don't see a reason to be so conformist in the context of a firm interview. Do you really think partners are going to be judging you by the particular shade of your shoes if your general style of dress is conservative and respectful to the situation? If so, I would purposely wear something a bit "off" to avoid a firm run by such people.

Again, I understand that there are certain parameters of dress for an interview, and that these parameters can be expanded once you begin a job. But I think many posters in this thread set these parameters much narrower than they need to be.

We've been through this.

They aren't going to say "outstanding shade of brown and I like toe caps, hired!" They are going to think "Light brown shoes/blue tie/stupid pocket square/etc for a big law job? Eh, this kid doesn't really know the rules of the road."

You don't gain points with your dress- only lose.


I never endorsed light brown shoes/stupid pocket square. I think that'd look dumb. My point was that there is no need to pigeonhole yourself into wearing a "corporate drone" costume, when there are some options that can allow you to respect the situation and the dress it calls for while avoiding the "corporate drone" look.

And I disagree with "you don't gain points with dress, only lose. I would say that if you are able to master the art of infusing a few appropriate touches of style into your interview ensemble, you don't lose points, only gain.

But yes, we've been through this.

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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby notanumber » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:03 pm

zettsscores40 wrote: lol says the guy who wants to rock a button down collar with a suit.


Not for a job interview. After I get the job? Hell yes.
Last edited by notanumber on Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GodSpeed
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby GodSpeed » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:03 pm

I have two or three different white shirts and four or five different red ties I wear, but it's still not a lot of room to work with

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HJO
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby HJO » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:13 pm

Somebody explain the no brown shoes to an interview perspective to me. I don't understand. Brown shoes look better with a navy suit.

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zettsscores40
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby zettsscores40 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:14 pm

notanumber wrote:
zettsscores40 wrote: lol says the guy who wants to rock a button down collar with a suit.


Not for a job interview. After I get the job? Hell yes.


Still looks like shit.

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HJO
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby HJO » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:21 pm

zettsscores40 wrote:
notanumber wrote:
zettsscores40 wrote: lol says the guy who wants to rock a button down collar with a suit.


Not for a job interview. After I get the job? Hell yes.


Still looks like shit.


TINTCR. C'mon son.

notanumber
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby notanumber » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:29 pm

HJO wrote:
zettsscores40 wrote:
notanumber wrote:
zettsscores40 wrote: lol says the guy who wants to rock a button down collar with a suit.


Not for a job interview. After I get the job? Hell yes.


Still looks like shit.


TINTCR. C'mon son.


--ImageRemoved--

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Waterman47
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby Waterman47 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:30 pm

HJO wrote:Somebody explain the no brown shoes to an interview perspective to me. I don't understand. Brown shoes look better with a navy suit.


Two schools of thought (at least).

One says that you want to stick as close to the script as possible when dressing for an interview, because any deviation can only cost you. According to the script, shoes must be black.

Another says that you need to dress professionally and conservatively, but not according to any specific rules. Light brown shoes contrast too greatly with a navy/charcoal suit and thus attract too much attention. That's why I suggested a darker pair, to lessen the contrast. I agree that brown looks better with navy.

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Bronte
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby Bronte » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:54 pm

This thread is very circular. That being said, I feel like somewhere, many pages ago, betasteve--seemingly the most ardent supporter of the hyper-conservative-for-interviews position--was arguing that black shoes with a navy suit was a devastating fuck-up.

P.S.: Those Allen-Edmonds cap toes are beautiful in both brown and black.

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zettsscores40
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby zettsscores40 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:53 pm

HJO wrote:
zettsscores40 wrote:
notanumber wrote:
zettsscores40 wrote: lol says the guy who wants to rock a button down collar with a suit.


Not for a job interview. After I get the job? Hell yes.


Still looks like shit.


TINTCR. C'mon son.


Calling people son doesn't help your point. It's a less formal look. Wear it with a blazer, tie and a pair of khakis sure. With a business suit, you're not going to convince many.

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yhezel
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby yhezel » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:06 pm

Has anyone here ever bought an online custom made suit?

I've seen the ads but it seems like a huge gamble, so I'm wodering if anyone knows of a reputable company.

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romothesavior
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:26 pm

FWIW, spent the day in a courtroom today with a couple well-dressed attorneys (two from a private firm and another guy who works for a big corporation). Two of the three wore 3-button suits, and two of the three also wore button downs (yes I know this sounds like the setup for a LG). All three looked respectable, with one of them looking damn sharp with his power tie and 3-button suit. Maybe it would be different for a white shoe firm in NYC, but three relatively-successful attorneys in the midwest were able to pull of the button down with tie just fine. Take that for what it is worth (probably not much).

Also, the aforementioned 3-button navy suit I recently bought secured me a dinner date this evening, and likely secured some future-ass. Or maybe it was my rugged good looks and charm? Either way, in the end I'm glad I got the 3-button suit, as it adds a new flavor to my suit arsenal.

New question: Is there a general rule of thumb for where the bottom of your slacks should fall?

hefox
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby hefox » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:38 pm

New question: Is there a general rule of thumb for where the bottom of your slacks should fall?[/quote]

I work at the Attorney General's office and although its not in what would be considered a 'cool' state (think states with really low population) I do think it has a good representation of appropriate attire. With that being said, the general slacks length in the office hit right at the shoe, with maybe an 1/8 inch overlap on the shoes. When I sit down my slacks hit my ankle. hope that helps

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yhezel
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby yhezel » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:39 pm

romothesavior wrote:FWIW, spent the day in a courtroom today with a couple well-dressed attorneys (two from a private firm and another guy who works for a big corporation). Two of the three wore 3-button suits, and two of the three also wore button downs (yes I know this sounds like the setup for a LG).


:D I started to break in a cold sweat :D

Good one!

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romothesavior
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:41 pm

hefox wrote:
I work at the Attorney General's office and although its not in what would be considered a 'cool' state (think states with really low population) I do think it has a good representation of appropriate attire. With that being said, the general slacks length in the office hit right at the shoe, with maybe an 1/8 inch overlap on the shoes. When I sit down my slacks hit my ankle. hope that helps


Excellent. For once, I'm doing it right.

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chup
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby chup » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:51 pm

Have you assholes seriously managed to expel 35 pages worth of pixels debating the minutiae of office and interview dress codes? Here's a hint: No one gives a shit about your shoes; how's that project coming along?

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vamedic03
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:09 pm

romothesavior wrote:New question: Is there a general rule of thumb for where the bottom of your slacks should fall?


Find a good tailor and put your trust in him.

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GodSpeed
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby GodSpeed » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:37 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:New question: Is there a general rule of thumb for where the bottom of your slacks should fall?


Find a good tailor and put your trust in him.


Full or half break, your choice. I rock half break. I had no break on my "party" suit. It looks terrible when you're doing anything but standing up perfectly straight.




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