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Ah, meant tan.

Thanks.

Where's the best place to find some nice dress slacks (for a business casual firm) for < $100 each?

ATR wrote:Where's the best place to find some nice dress slacks (for a business casual firm) for < $100 each?

Banana sales are often solid and I like their slacks.

What collar style is best for the no tie look? I generally wear point collars with a suit + tie, but what about for day-to-day wear without a tie?

romothesavior wrote:

ATR wrote:Where's the best place to find some nice dress slacks (for a business casual firm) for < $100 each?

Banana sales are often solid and I like their slacks.

Agreed. Their regular slacks are also fine, but if you buy the pants from their tailored slim fit suiting separates line during one of their many 40% off sales it comes out to just under $100, which is a steal. I bought charcoal and navy, and they are now my favorite pants.

If you have a BR near you, I would recommend going into the stores. I have found some absolute steals on their clearance rack. A few of my nicest chinos/slacks are from BR and they cost me like $30 off their clearance.

Hey! I'm still a 0L, but have been budgeting some off my paycheck each month for clothing. That said, it's not spent yet and I could use your help.

Is there anything I'll need prior to OCI, for a firm event or something else that first year? Did you ever find yourself needing a sportcoat/blazer (something I don't have), or would dress shirt/slacks/tie typically do the trick? If I struggle to figure out what to spend the money on, the default options are a navy suit (I have a tailored charcoal suit) or a pair or two of Allen Edmonds from their shoe bank (brown Strands/wingtips or black Park Avenues).

Thanks!

J90 wrote:Hey! I'm still a 0L, but have been budgeting some off my paycheck each month for clothing. That said, it's not spent yet and I could use your help.

Is there anything I'll need prior to OCI, for a firm event or something else that first year? Did you ever find yourself needing a sportcoat/blazer (something I don't have), or would dress shirt/slacks/tie typically do the trick? If I struggle to figure out what to spend the money on, the default options are a navy suit (I have a tailored charcoal suit) or a pair or two of Allen Edmonds from their shoe bank (brown Strands/wingtips or black Park Avenues).

Thanks!

navy suit, black pe's, then work from there.

J90 wrote:Hey! I'm still a 0L, but have been budgeting some off my paycheck each month for clothing. That said, it's not spent yet and I could use your help.

Is there anything I'll need prior to OCI, for a firm event or something else that first year? Did you ever find yourself needing a sportcoat/blazer (something I don't have), or would dress shirt/slacks/tie typically do the trick? If I struggle to figure out what to spend the money on, the default options are a navy suit (I have a tailored charcoal suit) or a pair or two of Allen Edmonds from their shoe bank (brown Strands/wingtips or black Park Avenues).

Thanks!

One suit and one pair of oxfords and you should be good. The only times I have absolutely needed a suit are: (1) interviews and (2) moot court. Even firm receptions are business casual.
I would recommend getting a black park ave. I got a pair off of eBay for cheap and shined them up and they look far better than a new Bostonian or some such. Plus, any legitimately nice item you buy now will be something you will not have to re-buy for OCI. So if you buy a cheap oxford, you are really only putting off the expense of a well made leather-bottom oxford for one year.

navy suit, black pe's, then work from there.

ImNoScar wrote:One suit and one pair of oxfords and you should be good. The only times I have absolutely needed a suit are: (1) interviews and (2) moot court. Even firm receptions are business casual.
I would recommend getting a black park ave. I got a pair off of eBay for cheap and shined them up and they look far better than a new Bostonian or some such. Plus, any legitimately nice item you buy now will be something you will not have to re-buy for OCI. So if you buy a cheap oxford, you are really only putting off the expense of a well made leather-bottom oxford for one year.

Great, thanks. I'll work toward the Park Avenues - I've got time before I might ever need these, so I'll wait for a Shoe Bank sale, the Nordstrom summer sale or some great eBay listing - and I should be in pretty good/better hands. I appreciate it!

J90 wrote:Hey! I'm still a 0L, but have been budgeting some off my paycheck each month for clothing. That said, it's not spent yet and I could use your help.

Is there anything I'll need prior to OCI, for a firm event or something else that first year? Did you ever find yourself needing a sportcoat/blazer (something I don't have), or would dress shirt/slacks/tie typically do the trick? If I struggle to figure out what to spend the money on, the default options are a navy suit (I have a tailored charcoal suit) or a pair or two of Allen Edmonds from their shoe bank (brown Strands/wingtips or black Park Avenues).

Thanks!

I'm of the opinion that someone could make it through anything they're likely to encounter in law school with a single navy suit, a pair of black cap-toes, a matching black belt, five white dress shirts, and maybe seven ties. With a navy suit and a charcoal suit, you'd be well ahead of that.

It is completely unnecessary to go this far (emphasis to not freak folks out), but I believe that any 0L planning ahead could effectively cover all of his bases through law school, SAs, and even his first forays into practice with the following lineup:
- Three suits—one navy, one charcoal, and one other solid in navy, charcoal, or medium gray
- Six plain dress shirts in a mix of white and pale blue (preferably more white than blue)
- Three or more subtly-striped and/or light pastel, beige, or light gray dress shirts
- A couple pairs of black cap-toes and matching belts
- At least ten simple striped or subtly-patterned business ties, plus at least two legit interview ties
- Whatever blazers, khakis, slacks, ridiculous black suits, or whatever you already own (even if you don't have anything)

With that lineup, you set aside one complete outfit for important shit (moot court finals, that important clinic trial, etc.) and interview use only. That is to say, you get either your solid navy or charcoal suit, your best white dress shirt, a belt and pair of shoes, and the interview ties, and you put them together on one side of your closet, never to be touched except for important shit.

That leaves you a two-suit rotation for any SAs and any other purpose, enough shirts to last you a week, enough ties to where your rotation probably won't be noticed, and a pair of shoes and belt that you don't have to stress about keeping pristine at every moment. It also covers you in all business-casual situations in that you can always wear one of your non-interview suits with one of the striped/colored shirts and no tie (in addition to having available any business casual stuff you might already own).

With some smart shopping and eschewing of particularly high-quality suits or accessories (shirts and ties all coming from Dillard's Clearance Center or Marshalls/TJ Maxx/Ross/Burlington, better JAB sale Signature or Lauren on a good sale from STP, a pair of J&M Meltons plus the cheapest cap-toes at Nordstrom Rack over Park Aves, etc.) and someone could pretty easily pull that off for under $1,200, and that's assuming that he wouldn't have anything at all on the list to begin with.

-Pufer

Thanks for that write-up, Pufer. One thing though, is it really necessary to keep one suit pristine at all times? I understand the importance of having one in good condition for an event, but would it be reasonable to just dry-clean it first as necessary?

J90 wrote:Thanks for that write-up, Pufer. One thing though, is it really necessary to keep one suit pristine at all times? I understand the importance of having one in good condition for an event, but would it be reasonable to just dry-clean it first as necessary?

You want to dry clean as infrequently as possible. It will ruin your suit.

J90 wrote:Thanks for that write-up, Pufer. One thing though, is it really necessary to keep one suit pristine at all times? I understand the importance of having one in good condition for an event, but would it be reasonable to just dry-clean it first as necessary?

What Danger Zone said. However, the bulk of law students probably don't need more than one good suit; they just need an iron with a good vertical steam function to steam out any wrinkles that may appear.

Furthermore, not everything is scheduled such that you can make sure to hit the dry cleaners beforehand, even if you wanted to do that. For instance, I got the job I had during 3L year based on an invite to an impromptu interview like three hours before it happened. I basically had time to go home to change into my interview suit, quickly tailor and print a resume, and drive back to school. Turns out that I was qualified enough for that particular job that I probably could've shown up in the jeans I was wearing to class, but those situations are rare (and virtually never occur to folks who don't specialize) and I wouldn't have needed the stress of wondering if my one suit still smelled like that networking event the day before where they served Indian food (I'm making that part up, although I have been to networking stuff catered by Indian restaurants).

-Pufer

Pufer wrote:

J90 wrote:Thanks for that write-up, Pufer. One thing though, is it really necessary to keep one suit pristine at all times? I understand the importance of having one in good condition for an event, but would it be reasonable to just dry-clean it first as necessary?

What Danger Zone said. However, the bulk of law students probably don't need more than one good suit; they just need an iron with a good vertical steam function to steam out any wrinkles that may appear.

Furthermore, not everything is scheduled such that you can make sure to hit the dry cleaners beforehand, even if you wanted to do that. For instance, I got the job I had during 3L year based on an invite to an impromptu interview like three hours before it happened. I basically had time to go home to change into my interview suit, quickly tailor and print a resume, and drive back to school. Turns out that I was qualified enough for that particular job that I probably could've shown up in the jeans I was wearing to class, but those situations are rare (and virtually never occur to folks who don't specialize) and I wouldn't have needed the stress of wondering if my one suit still smelled like that networking event the day before where they served Indian food (I'm making that part up, although I have been to networking stuff catered by Indian restaurants).

-Pufer

One of these can turn two suits and a three dress shirts into a bare bones wardrobe


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00070 ... UTF8&psc=1

SemperLegal wrote:

Pufer wrote:

J90 wrote:Thanks for that write-up, Pufer. One thing though, is it really necessary to keep one suit pristine at all times? I understand the importance of having one in good condition for an event, but would it be reasonable to just dry-clean it first as necessary?

What Danger Zone said. However, the bulk of law students probably don't need more than one good suit; they just need an iron with a good vertical steam function to steam out any wrinkles that may appear.

Furthermore, not everything is scheduled such that you can make sure to hit the dry cleaners beforehand, even if you wanted to do that. For instance, I got the job I had during 3L year based on an invite to an impromptu interview like three hours before it happened. I basically had time to go home to change into my interview suit, quickly tailor and print a resume, and drive back to school. Turns out that I was qualified enough for that particular job that I probably could've shown up in the jeans I was wearing to class, but those situations are rare (and virtually never occur to folks who don't specialize) and I wouldn't have needed the stress of wondering if my one suit still smelled like that networking event the day before where they served Indian food (I'm making that part up, although I have been to networking stuff catered by Indian restaurants).

-Pufer

One of these can turn two suits and a three dress shirts into a bare bones wardrobe


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00070 ... UTF8&psc=1

isnt steaming sorta bad for suits? as in steaming too much can make it bubble sooner

SaintsTheMetal wrote:isnt steaming sorta bad for suits? as in steaming too much can make it bubble sooner

Yeah, but the key words there are "too much." You're going to eventually acquire enough wrinkles (particularly on your pants) that you'll have to do something. At that point, you should steam carefully, avoiding the lapels (which shouldn't really be getting wrinkled anyway) and seams/edges as much as you can. You should probably avoid Ironing because it will eventually lead to bubbling too, plus you carry the risk of sheening your wool, which you don't really have to worry about with a steamer (unless you're inexplicably using an industrial steam cleaner or something).

-Pufer

The fact that Pufer cited/agreed with me just made me bust in my pants. Thank you, Zach Galifanakas (the spelling is close enough, asshole).

I have a few questions...

1. For somebody who is short/petite, are slim (not skinny) ties still completely off the table? Regular ties tend to make me look like I'm playing dress-up (not even kidding). I'm 5'4"...

2. How do you know if a shirt or tie is too flashy? I try to avoid looking dowdy, but don't want to look like a clown either.

3. If a firm allows business casual for SAs, will decent slacks from Jcrew/BR suffice? (of course, not including full suits for important matters).

I'll be a 1L this fall and would very much like to have my clothing situated before school starts. Thank you!

I'm a big fan of steamers.

Does anyone get that supercrease thing in their pants? I have one suit from Men's Wardrobe, and the super crease thing makes steaming pants super easy.

iMisto wrote:I have a few questions...

1. For somebody who is short/petite, are slim (not skinny) ties still completely off the table? Regular ties tend to make me look like I'm playing dress-up (not even kidding). I'm 5'4"...

2. How do you know if a shirt or tie is too flashy? I try to avoid looking dowdy, but don't want to look like a clown either.

3. If a firm allows business casual for SAs, will decent slacks from Jcrew/BR suffice? (of course, not including full suits for important matters).

I'll be a 1L this fall and would very much like to have my clothing situated before school starts. Thank you!

1. I wouldnt wear a slim tie to an interview. The problem may be your not: try a four in hand.
2. For an interview: wear a white shirt (or maybe light blue). The goal is to look good without standing out.
3. Firm by firm. From my limited experience, yes (midwest). Not sure about more "formal" markets.

Would a suit with texturing like this (--LinkRemoved--) be conservative enough for an interview?

ansteam wrote:Would a suit with texturing like this (--LinkRemoved--) be conservative enough for an interview?

"conservative enough" is really just a go-to standard consisting of navy blue or charcoal suits. that being said, i think pinstripe suits by young interviewees reeks of "this was my first suit."

The rule of thumb for suits ITT is this: if you have something sliiiightly off, and you have an interview REAL SOON, then fine, roll with it. Not an emergency. But if you have any time whatsoever to make a careful suit selection (read: like, a week or two minimum), don't just buy the first thing you find that's "close." But a solid navy or charcoal in a normal texture.

iMisto wrote:I have a few questions...

1. For somebody who is short/petite, are slim (not skinny) ties still completely off the table? Regular ties tend to make me look like I'm playing dress-up (not even kidding). I'm 5'4"...

2. How do you know if a shirt or tie is too flashy? I try to avoid looking dowdy, but don't want to look like a clown either.

3. If a firm allows business casual for SAs, will decent slacks from Jcrew/BR suffice? (of course, not including full suits for important matters).

I'll be a 1L this fall and would very much like to have my clothing situated before school starts. Thank you!

1. Assuming that you're not 5'4 and 250 pounds, you'll probably want to be closer to 3" than the upper end of respectability at 3.75" (if you're made of money, most Lanvin ties are exactly 3"; if otherwise, two widely-available options are non-slim Tommy Hilfiger and Hugo Boss, which tend to vary between 3" and 3.25"). That's slim compared to the four-inchers a lot of boomers are still wearing, but doesn't qualify as skinny (compare main-line Hilfiger with slim-line Hilfiger). More importantly, they'll probably just look normal on a guy who is 5'4.

2. Read my post higher on this page for the varieties of shirts you should be looking at. Basically, your staples should be plain white and light blue, with a bias towards white if you're wearing a tie every day. You can add in other light pastels (the standard is basically whether it is substantially different than cream or dark blue - really pale lavender or yellow are what you should be thinking, not pale neon orange), gray, and cream solids or vertical microstripes to mix it up from time to time. You can even mix in a very conservative striped shirt with a solid tie occasionally. If you're not wearing a tie, most business-looking stripes should be good. I'd generally avoid french cuffs, contrasting collars/cuffs, and particularly saturated colors.

As to ties, your staples should be textured solids (untextured solids—a solid satin being the typical example—often make you look like a waiter; an example of what you're going for from tiebar would be the grenafaux), traditional stripes (regimental, repp, etc.; see tiebar's classic twill, honor stripe, american stripe, or bar stripe), and basic woven patterns (pindots and similar; see tiebar's pindot, solid diamonds, sweet tooth, or biz) in basic colors (reds, blues, other dark colors; generally avoiding pinks, purples, oranges except maybe as very minor accent colors, and no solid black unless you're going to a funeral). Avoid prints, large geometric stuff, plaids, novelty ties, and paisleys (these all have their roles, but you should probably keep it simple until you learn when they might be appropriate).

My example on this is going to be Boston Legal characters. You probably shouldn't wear anything Denny Crane ever wore. Alan Shore's wardrobe is much safer, but some of his ties got kinda' 90s-ish and loud at times (basically, he dressed pretty much like a real lawyer). Brad Chase generally wore pretty conservative shirts and ties, and is safer still (what you should probably be aiming for as a student). Basically, if Brad Chase wore it, you can wear it at work. If you're going to an interview, read my megapost.

3. Yup.

ansteam wrote:Would a suit with texturing like this (--LinkRemoved--) be conservative enough for an interview?

If that's what you already have, that's pretty acceptable (aside from the fact that it kinda' looks like a vertical cotton twill, which you shouldn't be wearing to an interview); better than a true pinstripe, at least. If you haven't bought it yet, go solid.

-Pufer