OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

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Emma.
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Emma. » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:43 pm

Honestly I think this thread gets a little too caught up in the "ZOMG, solid charcoal or navy only!" rhetoric.

Is a black suit really business appropriate? No. But do interviewers understand that you are a law student who maybe can't afford a new suit just for interviews, probably yes.

I think the key for OCI is showing interviewers that you can show up in something that wouldn't embarrass them if you were to wear it to court or a client meeting. Plain charcoal or navy is almost certainly the safe bet in that way, but TBH I see more light grey than navy suits in court. Same goes for the plain v. patterned advice. Solid colors are safe, and you definitely don't want to be wearing some really ostentatious chalk-stripe, but a subtle pinstripe or herringbone is totally conservative and business appropriate.

If you don't know what you are doing with business attire, then for sure you should go with the uniform advice from this thread: solid charcoal 2 button suit, white or pale blue shirt, conservative tie, black shoes and belt. You can't go wrong with that. But is varying from that going to hurt you if you do it well? I can't believe that it will.

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:01 pm

Tbf, I think you could get away with this suit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GWJC7tlYck at OCI. Credit: Dany.

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romothesavior
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:40 pm

Veyron wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Sorry, I'll try to calibrate my suit preferences to yours. For the record, the firm that offered me my SA didn't seem to mind the suit.


Yes, that would be wise. Its not like an "incorrect" suit is going to kill an otherwise promising candidate. Doesn't mean that you should wear a black suit to a job interview.

+1. Your individual firm may not have cared, but many, many lawyers do. We have this event at my school called Intersession where they bring in tons of attorneys to talk to us about jobs, interviews, resumes, etc. Multiple attorneys said charcoal or navy with black shoes for interviews. One attorney even said he didn't hire a guy because he was missing collar stays, and this same guy made a student stand up in front of our class and he basically ripped on his attire. And this guy was at a firm in a secondary market, where I'd imagine most if not all firms are business casual.

Is this typical? Hell no. But it matters to enough people that you should still follow basic interview fashion advice. The fact that you got lucky and no one minded your attire doesnt change the fact that many do care, and its not worth the risk. They don't expect you to wear 2000 dollar suits from BB, but you ought to at least follow basic interview attire guidelines and wear a suit that fits.

Also, and I hate to say this, but you did lose some cred when you mentioned that your favorite suit is a black suit. Every men's fasion forum, magazine, etc. would tell you that black is an absolute no-no for business settings. Check out the well-dressed people at your firm, and you won't see a black suit. This isn't TLS conventional wisdom, this is just how it is.

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romothesavior
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:59 pm

Emma. wrote: You can't go wrong with that. But is varying from that going to hurt you if you do it well? I can't believe that it will.

Well I'm sorry to say that you would be wrong, and attorneys have told me as much. It may not even be a conscious thing, but when someone walks in with crappy shoes, a black suit, a hot pink tie, whatever, a person with good business fashion sense is going to instantly be turned off. They don't even have to be all that well-attuned to men's fashion (there aren't many Pufers out there) to recognize that you don't look quite right.

Many (most?) probably won't care or even notice. But many do care, either consciously or subconsciously, and it such an easy mistake to fix that it isn't worth risking it. There's a reason that "charcoal or navy, white shirt, black shoes/belt, red/blue basic tie" is recommended by virtually every CSO, most hiring partners, most "How to Get a Job" websites, almost everyone ITT, etc.

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Emma.
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:16 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Emma. wrote: You can't go wrong with that. But is varying from that going to hurt you if you do it well? I can't believe that it will.

Well I'm sorry to say that you would be wrong, and attorneys have told me as much. It may not even be a conscious thing, but when someone walks in with crappy shoes, a black suit, a hot pink tie, whatever, a person with good business fashion sense is going to instantly be turned off. They don't even have to be all that well-attuned to men's fashion (there aren't many Pufers out there) to recognize that you don't look quite right.

Many (most?) probably won't care or even notice. But many do care, either consciously or subconsciously, and it such an easy mistake to fix that it isn't worth risking it. There's a reason that "charcoal or navy, white shirt, black shoes/belt, red/blue basic tie" is recommended by virtually every CSO, most hiring partners, most "How to Get a Job" websites, almost everyone ITT, etc.


Dude, I definitely agree with you that the outfit you describe would cost people callbacks, but that wasn't my point at all. Since, as you say, most people aren't that well-attuned to men's fashion, it is definitely a safe recommendation to stick with the basics.

My point is that someone who *is* well-attuned to fashion can put together an outfit that is conservative and interview appropriate yet doesn't consist of a plain navy or charcoal suit. I've talked to plenty of attorneys too, and they all emphasize that what is important is being able to look court-appropriate. That doesn't have to mean plain navy or charcoal.

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theturkeyisfat
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby theturkeyisfat » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:54 pm

my only suit is charcoal gray with barely-noticeable pinstripes. this should be fine, right?

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Helmholtz
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:57 pm

theturkeyisfat wrote:my only suit is charcoal gray with barely-noticeable pinstripes. this should be fine, right?


I would imagine so, yes. You're a 0L, right? Might not be a bad idea to pick up maybe a navy suit sometime between now and OCI, if only for the reason that relying solely upon one suit probably isn't the best idea.

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theturkeyisfat
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby theturkeyisfat » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:00 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
theturkeyisfat wrote:my only suit is charcoal gray with barely-noticeable pinstripes. this should be fine, right?


I would imagine so, yes. You're a 0L, right? Might not be a bad idea to pick up maybe a navy suit sometime between now and OCI, if only for the reason that relying solely upon one suit probably isn't the best idea.


yeah, i'm a 0L. i'll probably get another suit before OCI sometime and rely on this one for the 1L summer search.

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:26 pm

Here's a question that I don't think's really come to a consensus yet. Power tie or muted tie? By power tie I mean a bold colored tie with a conservative pattern (e.g., firetruck red or royal blue pindot), and by muted tie I mean a muted colored tie with a conservative pattern (e.g., crimson red or navy blue pindot).

In the old days, I remember GodSpeed used to adamantly advocate ITT for the power tie (in particular, the red pindot). However, my buddy just called me to ask if he should listen to the salesman's advice that he should go with a muted tie for interviews. I think this is an area where it's really discretionary, so that's what I told him.

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:03 pm

Nightrunner wrote:I maintain that the smartest move with ties is to look at the firm website/attorney photos. Are the majority of men wearing power ties? Rock the power tie; that's the firm culture. Are most men wearing muted ties? You get the picture.

I'm no legal hiring expert, but I've applied for many jobs in my life, and this system worked perfectly for me so far.


That's actually a great idea but will be a little harder OCI given multiple back to back interviews.

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shepdawg
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby shepdawg » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:08 pm

How about subtle pick stitching on the lapel? I found a CK at Marshalls for $159. It has stitching on the lapel that can be seen from 2 ft away or closer. It fits pretty good, but need a little tailoring. Should I pull the trigger?

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:12 pm

shepdawg wrote:How about subtle pick stitching on the lapel? I found a CK at Marshalls for $159. It has stitching on the lapel that can be seen from 2 ft away or closer. It fits pretty good, but need a little tailoring. Should I pull the trigger?


I dislike stitching on the lapel, but if it's subtle I think you're fine. It's not contrast stitching is it? Is it otherwise two button, dark solid, etc.?

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shepdawg
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby shepdawg » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:16 pm

Bronte wrote:
shepdawg wrote:How about subtle pick stitching on the lapel? I found a CK at Marshalls for $159. It has stitching on the lapel that can be seen from 2 ft away or closer. It fits pretty good, but need a little tailoring. Should I pull the trigger?


I dislike stitching on the lapel, but if it's subtle I think you're fine. It's not contrast stitching is it? Is it otherwise two button, dark solid, etc.?

Yeah. It's solid charcoal, 2 button, untextured.

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:22 pm

shepdawg wrote:
Bronte wrote:
shepdawg wrote:How about subtle pick stitching on the lapel? I found a CK at Marshalls for $159. It has stitching on the lapel that can be seen from 2 ft away or closer. It fits pretty good, but need a little tailoring. Should I pull the trigger?


I dislike stitching on the lapel, but if it's subtle I think you're fine. It's not contrast stitching is it? Is it otherwise two button, dark solid, etc.?

Yeah. It's solid charcoal, 2 button, untextured.


It wouldn't be my first choice, although I don't know how others feel about lapel stitching. But it's a good deal. Like I've said, I think modestly breaking one rule at a time is fine. Take a picture if you can.

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Emma.
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:25 pm

Bronte wrote:
shepdawg wrote:
Bronte wrote:
shepdawg wrote:How about subtle pick stitching on the lapel? I found a CK at Marshalls for $159. It has stitching on the lapel that can be seen from 2 ft away or closer. It fits pretty good, but need a little tailoring. Should I pull the trigger?


I dislike stitching on the lapel, but if it's subtle I think you're fine. It's not contrast stitching is it? Is it otherwise two button, dark solid, etc.?

Yeah. It's solid charcoal, 2 button, untextured.


It wouldn't be my first choice, although I don't know how others feel about lapel stitching. But it's a good deal. Like I've said, I think modestly breaking one rule at a time is fine. Take a picture if you can.


Man. I guess I'm going to be going to interviews dressed way less conservatively than most people ITT. :lol:

ALL of my suits have pick stitching.

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:29 pm

Emma. wrote:Man. I guess I'm going to be going to interviews dressed way less conservatively than most people ITT. :lol:

ALL of my suits have pick stitching.


It might just be a personal thing. I don't remember it being discussed before ITT, so it's really just one to one at this point. I think OP is fine buying the suit though. A little stitching on a lapel does NOT make your outfit inappropriate.

Edit: Doing a little bit of googling, it sounds like it was traditionally the mark of a very fine fully canvased suit. Now it's become more common on lower end suits. I'm sure it's fine.
Last edited by Bronte on Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Emma.
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:36 pm

Bronte wrote:
Emma. wrote:Man. I guess I'm going to be going to interviews dressed way less conservatively than most people ITT. :lol:

ALL of my suits have pick stitching.


It might just be a personal thing. I don't remember it being discussed before ITT, so it's really just one to one at this point. I think OP is fine buying the suit though. A little stitching on a lapel does make your outfit inappropriate.


Yeah, I can't see how it could possibly be a problem. I would say the majority of high-quality hand-sewn suits have pick stitching, and it is not really noticeable or ostentatious on any of my suits.

I don't know if it has been discussed ITT or not, and I bet no one is going to go for it, but I'm definitely rocking a pocket square (flat fold, nothing crazy!) to all of my interviews.

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:39 pm

Sorry lol, I meant does NOT make your outfit in appropriate.

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:42 pm

Yeah about pocket squares and tie clips. I usually wear a square fold white pocket square and a very inauspicious stainless tie clip. I'm probably going to skip them for interviews though and just go with a simple black leather band stainless watch as my only accessory.

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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:12 pm

Because I am not going to go through 102 pages, what are you most/least favorite suit brands?

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Bronte
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:19 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Because I am not going to go through 102 pages, what are you most/least favorite suit brands?


There hasn't been that much discussion of brands (at least in the original OCI thread). It really depends on your price range, and what's more important is that it's a two button, vented, notched-lapel, solid navy or charcoal suit and otherwise traditional cut. And that you get it tailored.

I love Brooks Brothers 1818 Fitzgeralds, but only if you're tall and skinny. They're only worth buying at the semi-annual sale. For cheaper options, there's Jos. A. Banks (also only should be bought at the sales), Brooks Brothers Outlets, and department store brands. I'm sure others have better bargain hunting advice as well.

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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:22 pm

Bronte wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Because I am not going to go through 102 pages, what are you most/least favorite suit brands?


There hasn't been that much discussion of brands (at least in the original OCI thread). It really depends on your price range, and what's more important is that it's a two button, vented, notched-lapel, solid navy or charcoal suit and otherwise traditional cut. And that you get it tailored.

I love Brooks Brothers 1818 Fitzgeralds, but only if you're tall and skinny. They're only worth buying at the semi-annual sale. For cheaper options, there's Jos. A. Banks (also only should be bought at the sales), Brooks Brothers Outlets, and department store brands. I'm sure others have better bargain hunting advice as well.

I like the cut of the Fitzgerald but I happen to be shorter and stockier (5'8, 160, in good shape), you think no go?

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Emma.
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:25 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Because I am not going to go through 102 pages, what are you most/least favorite suit brands?


Depends entirely on your budget. Brooks Brothers' "Fitzgerald" suits are generally a credited option. Conservative enough but still reasonably modern, and quality construction. I have a few Hugo Boss suits that fit me super well, but I'm not totally sold on Hugo Boss as far as value for money. You are probably paying too much for the name unless you buy at a really good sale. Ralph Lauren Black Label make some really beautiful suits. They are full canvas and lately they have been putting out some cuts that are conservative enough for a law firm interview but also reasonably slim and modern. Even on sale they aren't cheap though. If I could afford it I would probably buy Ermenegildo Zegna.

goodolgil
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby goodolgil » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Anyone here have any experience with Indochino? It's MTM at OTR prices, but I know nothing about the actual quality of the wool they use. At those prices, I'm a bit skeptical.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:30 pm

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Last edited by TaipeiMort on Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.




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