OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

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kalvano
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby kalvano » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:08 pm

Thirteen wrote:
HenryKillinger wrote:
chup wrote:
Thirteen wrote:
+1 on Nordstrom fitted and slim shirts. The Mens Half-Yearly Sale starts on Friday the 17th, so check out the store and website for deals.

Do the Nordstrom shirts on the website usually go on sale? I could use a few more shirts/pants for my jerb now that I've realized it's exclusively biz casual, and I'm wondering if I should wait until Friday to order.

The answer to this question will be relevant to my interests.


I think so, but I'm not 100% sure.



No. They usually don't, as they sell well enough anyway.

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Pufer
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Pufer » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:12 pm

smittytron3k wrote:Yeah, I think some of the advice ITT is silly/frivolous. Obviously formality is the order of the day, but no one has ever failed to get hired on account of wearing, inter alia, brown shoes, tasteful ties in colors other than blue or red, or a blue dress shirt. The gestalt impression that you create is orders of magnitude more important than any particular article of clothing, and if you look good, wear a suit and tie, and look like you showered that morning, you will be fine.


A big part of the "gestalt impression that you create" is highly dependent on how the interviewer thinks you will respond to the criticism the partners will heap upon your work once you show up and actually start doing stuff. I've been asked a lot of questions seeking this precise sort of information in interviews, and have never given a single answer that could provide an interviewer with any real insight on the actual matter at hand.

Now, I'm kinda' interested in how you'll respond to criticism (or just being flustered) as well. If you decide to wear french cuffs or a tie bar, I can criticize you to your face and actually see how you take it.

When interviewing folks for intern positions at my job before law school, I'd do exactly this. After I take the bar in July, I'm happy to say that I am rejoining the ranks of the employed (albeit two states away). One of the items on my job description is interviewing and hiring law student interns.

Your inability to appropriately dress yourself may not ultimately cost you the job, but it certainly cannot help you. Further, you know that, for at least one interviewer who will be interviewing this fall, it opens the door to a line of questioning you probably want to avoid.

You can wear that yellow paisley tie to the interview if you want, but it gains you absolutely nothing, and you might run into me (and I'm not alone). As such, I can't imagine why you'd want to do it, irrespective of how frivolous you may consider such concerns to be.

geoduck wrote:The socks go on over the shoes, rite guyz?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

-Pufer

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fatduck
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby fatduck » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:30 pm

Pufer wrote:Further, you know that, for at least one interviewer who will be interviewing this fall, it opens the door to a line of questioning you probably want to avoid.

so, tls username on the resume, or no?

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geoduck
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby geoduck » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:33 pm

fatduck wrote:
Pufer wrote:Further, you know that, for at least one interviewer who will be interviewing this fall, it opens the door to a line of questioning you probably want to avoid.

so, tls username on the resume, or no?


Only if you'll be interviewing within two states of New Mexico. And if you think it would help make a better impression... Mmm, maybe skip it altogether.

smittytron3k
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby smittytron3k » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:38 pm

All I'm trying to say is that the range of acceptable interview attire, while narrow, is not limited to four combinations of suits, shirts, and ties. Common sense seems to be the touchstone here and I don't see a lot of it from you, especially if you are actually suggesting that you openly criticize interview candidates for their fashion choices. Do I plan on wearing a tie bar, a skinny tie, french cuffs, or a contrast collar? No, because I don't own those things and think they're sort of tacky. Do I plan to wear brown shoes, pale blue shirts, and a subtly patterned purple tie? Yeah, I do, and I don't think it will make a difference. You're free to disagree. Frankly, if you're the type of person who would be less likely to hire someone because they wore brown shoes or a blue shirt (or even--gasp--a fucking tie bar!), I think you're doing your firm a disservice.

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geoduck
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby geoduck » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:41 pm

smittytron3k wrote:All I'm trying to say is that the range of acceptable interview attire, while narrow, is not limited to four combinations of suits, shirts, and ties. Common sense seems to be the touchstone here and I don't see a lot of it from you, especially if you are actually suggesting that you openly criticize interview candidates for their fashion choices. Do I plan on wearing a tie bar, a skinny tie, french cuffs, or a contrast collar? No, because I don't own those things and think they're sort of tacky. Do I plan to wear brown shoes, pale blue shirts, and a subtly patterned purple tie? Yeah, I do, and I don't think it will make a difference. You're free to disagree. Frankly, if you're the type of person who would be less likely to hire someone because they wore brown shoes or a blue shirt (or even--gasp--a fucking tie bar!), I think you're doing your firm a disservice.


Pale blue shirt with a purple tie? You should drive your little red corvette to the interview and score some more points.

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Rooney
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Rooney » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:45 pm

Exeter wrote:Most people in the forum are huge nerds who cannot dress worth shit.

A good suit should be the following

1. 1-2 buttons, NOT 3, Double breasted is catching back up
2. Flat Front pants - Pleats are for losers
3. DOUBLE vents. I cannot stress this enough. Single looks like shit.


4. 5. 6. GET A FUCKING TAILOR

You are shelling out 150K plus for LS, spend the extra hundy spot and get the shit to look right.

7. Pinstripes are bush league in most cases.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:51 pm

geoduck wrote:
smittytron3k wrote:All I'm trying to say is that the range of acceptable interview attire, while narrow, is not limited to four combinations of suits, shirts, and ties. Common sense seems to be the touchstone here and I don't see a lot of it from you, especially if you are actually suggesting that you openly criticize interview candidates for their fashion choices. Do I plan on wearing a tie bar, a skinny tie, french cuffs, or a contrast collar? No, because I don't own those things and think they're sort of tacky. Do I plan to wear brown shoes, pale blue shirts, and a subtly patterned purple tie? Yeah, I do, and I don't think it will make a difference. You're free to disagree. Frankly, if you're the type of person who would be less likely to hire someone because they wore brown shoes or a blue shirt (or even--gasp--a fucking tie bar!), I think you're doing your firm a disservice.


Pale blue shirt with a purple tie? You should drive your little red corvette to the interview and score some more points.

ya, he is in trouble

Aston2412
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Aston2412 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:55 pm

Pale blue and pale purple go very well together...I'm failing to see the issue here.

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fatduck
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby fatduck » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:57 pm

Aston2412 wrote:Pale blue and pale purple go very well together...I'm failing to see the issue here.

Image

Anonymous User
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:58 pm

fatduck wrote:
Aston2412 wrote:Pale blue and pale purple go very well together...I'm failing to see the issue here.

Image


Again, what's the problem? That's perfectly acceptable in Tokyo (and apparently Portland, who knew?).

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James Bond
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby James Bond » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:00 pm

Aston2412 wrote:Pale blue and pale purple go very well together...I'm failing to see the issue here.


You really don't get the whole "what you wear to an interview =/= what you can wear" do you?

Aston2412
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Aston2412 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:02 pm

No, I completely get that. But I don't think a pale blue shirt with a purple tie is out of the equation. In fact, a light blue shirt is pretty standard interview/work apparel. So all he's done is change his tie from red to purple. I think he's going to be fine.

Now, a bright green shirt with a purple tie? That's probably too much, though they go incredibly well.

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geoduck
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby geoduck » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:05 pm

Aston2412 wrote:No, I completely get that. But I don't think a pale blue shirt with a purple tie is out of the equation.

Now, a bright green shirt with a purple tie? That's probably too much, though they go incredibly well.


A pale blue shirt with a purple tie is pretty silly looking regardless. It's total middle management garb. You dress for the job you want.

Geist13
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Geist13 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:12 pm

I think that non-descript, which I read as not notable, is exactly what you should be shooting for. The last thing you want for your interviewers to remember is what you were wearing. If your clothes are worth remembering, it's almost certainly a bad thing. You want their focus to be elsewhere.

Nix the charcoal suit. Navy is the way to go. Get that shit tailored. As far as shirts go, I like brooks brothers, slim fit, no-iron, button down collar. The slim fit is not for skinny dudes (I'm definitely not one). But they fit better and poof out of your pants less. Brooks Brothers often has sales.

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James Bond
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby James Bond » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:14 pm

Eh...button downs tend to make you look either back office or fratty (not that there's anything wrong with the second, as that's how I dress, but not for business) I wouldn't recommend it

Also, I'd pick Charcoal over Navy, but that's just personal preference I think. I look better in charcoal/black than blue/brown

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GeePee
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby GeePee » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:15 pm

The fact that this argument itself is occurring pretty much proves the point of the thread. The point is that people have very, very individualized and idiosyncratic views on what fashions look good. HOWEVER, no one will dislike the guy in the tailored 2 button charcoal suit with the medium spread white shirt, regular red silk tie, and black captoe shoes, socks, and belt with a silver beltbuckle. By dressing conservatively, you hedge your bets so as not to defeat yourself before you start. You will offend no one. Conversation about your wardrobe in an interview is time not talking about things that actually matter -- if your interviewer is bringing up your attire, it's probably a bad thing.

Sure, it's possible that you get an interviewer that's impressed with your style, but it's unlikely to help as much as it will hurt with the next interviewer who says to himself, "What if this guy decides to go into court looking like that?"

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Bronte
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Bronte » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:03 pm

As others have alluded to, this thread is not about the dress code in the legal profession. It's about what you should wear to a legal interview. The same pretty much applies to any interview for a white shoe profession. Once you have a job, you obviously are not confined to only blue or red ties.

At that point, you can wear your paisley ties and your purple ties and your tie bars and your pocket squares. You can wear your dark brown shoes with your navy suit, which obviously looks much better than black. You just shouldn't wear them to your interview. You have to dress ultraconservatively for a few days, not the rest of your life.

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Cavalier
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Cavalier » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:19 pm

I don't care to read through all six pages since this isn't relevant to my interests, as I've already been through the process, so this may have already been said. But I can't emphasize enough that the fit of the suit is probably the most important thing to get right. You can get by with a navy or charcoal Men's Wearhouse suit and a black pair of flat-toed, rubber-soled dress shoes, but make sure the suit is tailored. The people who stand out are the ones with clothes that don't fit. If you're buying something from online, make sure you (a) have access to a good tailor, and (b) get it in time to take to the tailor.

Other than that, dressing for OGI (for men) is very simple, although I'd add that it's smart to invest in a good suit anyway.

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vamedic03
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby vamedic03 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:24 pm

Skip all the crap in this thread.

1) Find the closest Brooks Brothers or local suit store
2) Tell them you have interviews for law firms and need conservative interview attire
3) Give them a maximum price for 1 suit, 2 shirts, 2 ties
4) During the 1-2 weeks that the suit is getting tailored, buy reasonably priced belt and shoes (yes, allen edmonds are nice, but a good leather sole cole haan is 1/2 the price and will do the trick).
5) Enjoy your interviews.
(side note - don't go too high end on your suits for OCI because you will be wearing them pretty hard - multiple long days, lots of sweating, lots of travel)

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fatduck
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby fatduck » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:31 pm

Skip all the crap in this thread.

Do exactly what is recommended in this thread.

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chup
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby chup » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:01 am

kalvano wrote:
Thirteen wrote:
HenryKillinger wrote:
chup wrote:Do the Nordstrom shirts on the website usually go on sale? I could use a few more shirts/pants for my jerb now that I've realized it's exclusively biz casual, and I'm wondering if I should wait until Friday to order.

The answer to this question will be relevant to my interests.


I think so, but I'm not 100% sure.



No. They usually don't, as they sell well enough anyway.

Image

Anonymous User
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:31 am

bikepilot wrote:At OCI the lawyers will be interviewing about a billion people a day while worrying about what's happening WRT their real work. They won't be scrutinizing your clothes. As long as you look professional, your attire won't be remembered and that's a good thing. Wear stuff that fits and don't wear a black suit. Also avoid anything particularly interesting - lawyers are largely a boring, conventional bunch. imo you are better off buying a cheaper suit and getting it tailored to fit perfectly than buying an expensive suit and having a poor fit. Of course an expensive, perfectly tailored suit would be nice, but employers really don't care about the $$ of your suit - they know you are students and don't expect $1k+ suits and, I suspect, a majority of attorneys at big law first couldn't spot an expensive suit from a cheap one.


The bolded is the most credited advice, IMO.

Impressions are made subconsciously so dont wear a suit that says you are a hotdog. The more important thing is not the impression you make, but the way you feel like about your look. You should put on clothes that make you feel good.

With respect to charcoal vs. navy, I think the navy is younger looking. If you are very young looking, I would go charcoal.

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Bronte
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Bronte » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:47 am

vamedic03 wrote:Skip all the crap in this thread.

1) Find the closest Brooks Brothers or local suit store
2) Tell them you have interviews for law firms and need conservative interview attire
3) Give them a maximum price for 1 suit, 2 shirts, 2 ties
4) During the 1-2 weeks that the suit is getting tailored, buy reasonably priced belt and shoes (yes, allen edmonds are nice, but a good leather sole cole haan is 1/2 the price and will do the trick).
5) Enjoy your interviews.
(side note - don't go too high end on your suits for OCI because you will be wearing them pretty hard - multiple long days, lots of sweating, lots of travel)


Telling a salesperson you need conservative interview attire is like telling a car salesman you want a reliable vehicle. You might get a good guy, or you might walk out in a pinstripe ventless three button suit with a pair of loafers. I know because it happened to me before I'd had some sense knocked into me by older incarnations of threads like this on TLS.

You say "skip all the crap in this thread" as if there hasn't already been better advice, more concisely put.

thsmthcrmnl
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby thsmthcrmnl » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:10 am

I don't think anyone here's mentioned shoe trees. They're helpful, especially if you're going to be bouncing about for a few days in the same pair of shoes.




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