OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

[dailygrind]

I hope you posted that picture as an example of what not to wear to OCI

haha I just google imaged it and posted it. i do like the look tho. its a shame that the legal field dresses like its 1925. i rather have a team of lawyers dressed modern and stylish than a team dressed like they are about to go to a funeral circa 1929.

Definitely an appropriate use of the anon feature.

haha thank you. you have to agree the typical black, grey, brown, or navy suit with a white or blue shirt is really boring.

The fact that I outed you ought to have served as a warning. Knock it off.

[Aston2412]

Tuck in issues such as shirt blooming. It's just so messy. The vest keeps lines so much cleaner when you take off your jacket. Though I'm reading here that my jacket should just about stay glued during the interview, so maybe that doesn't matter so much.

If you're having issues with shirt blooming then you might want to switch to a narrower cut shirt. Most brands are now making shirts available in 2 cuts, and some are even doing 3. A regular shirt is going to bloom 97% of the time. You can cut down on this by opting for a "modern" or "slim" or "fitted" shirt that is widely available these days. And sweet mercy, if someone tells me that a more form fitting shirt is inappropriate to wear to OCI I'll probably scream.

[geoduck]

Ok, ftr, 5'8'' 170 and a 33 waist is definitely not someone who is "big for his size." I know a lot of people who are 5'8'', 5'9'' and around 170-180 and they are in amazing shape. The thing is, when someone says they are 170 you don't know how much of that is muscle or fat and moreover 170 still isn't fat for 5'8'' even if it's mostly fat. That's normal (and I don't mean America is obese so it's overweight but still normal - I mean, that's a guy who's in pretty good shape).

So I hope I've aided in your self-esteem. And yes, for the record you can pull off a skinny tie without it looking cartoonish. Whether or not you want to wear it to OCI is still up to you.

Nobody called him fat. I jokingly referred to the fact that he's overweight according to the BMI scale, but mentioned that said scale is worthless for anyone athletic. Still, the fact that he's into the "overweight" range speaks to the fact that either he's overweight, or he's got some muscle on his frame and/or a wide frame. All of this indicates that he isn't "skinny", even if he is fit. Thus, skinny ties probably look silly.

[geoduck]

Tuck in issues such as shirt blooming. It's just so messy. The vest keeps lines so much cleaner when you take off your jacket. Though I'm reading here that my jacket should just about stay glued during the interview, so maybe that doesn't matter so much.

If you're having issues with shirt blooming then you might want to switch to a narrower cut shirt. Most brands are now making shirts available in 2 cuts, and some are even doing 3. A regular shirt is going to bloom 97% of the time. You can cut down on this by opting for a "modern" or "slim" or "fitted" shirt that is widely available these days. And sweet mercy, if someone tells me that a more form fitting shirt is inappropriate to wear to OCI I'll probably scream.

Yeah, I'm probably going to need to get my shirts tailored to fully fix that. I have one modern shirt with some spandex in it that doesn't bloom, but my other modern shirts still bloom if I ever raise my arms. But I am planning on buying new shirts, so maybe going with higher quality will fix some of that.

[Rooney]

Do not wear a tie bar

Disagree

[HenryKillinger]

Slim ties, yes. Skinny ties, no.

I think we need a threshold to denote Slim vs Skinny. As I understand it (via Pufer) the standard is 3 - 3.75" at the widest point so I imagine it would be at or close to 3"

[Kilpatrick]

Do not wear a tie bar

Disagree

If I was in charge of hiring I would auto ding anyone who came in to an interview with a skinny tie, a pocket square, a tie bar, a tie clip, a three piece suit, or was drinking an old fashioned.

Mad Men is a cool show, but you're not on it

[psm11]

The fact that I outed you ought to have served as a warning. Knock it off.

knock what off?

[dailygrind]

The fact that I outed you ought to have served as a warning. Knock it off.

knock what off?

Using the anonymous feature to dick around.

[psm11]

The fact that I outed you ought to have served as a warning. Knock it off.

knock what off?

Using the anonymous feature to dick around.

jesus christ. relax!

[Pufer]

33 inch waist at the moment. On a diet, and fully expect to go down to 165ish with a 31-32 inch waist. I may not be rail thin, but I'm skinnier by far than the average dude, and a 3.5 inch tie feels odd to me.

Given that the average dude in America has a 40 inch waist and is pushing morbid obesity (which is a lot less fat than you think it is), that's not saying much. A three inch tie would be very appropriate for you, but you probably wouldn't want to ever dip below 2.75 inches to the realm of true skinny ties.

I actually do see businessmen in 3 piece suits around here in Seattle. I'll be doing OCI in Minneapolis, so I don't know yet how much 3 piece suits are worn around there. I like vests because they look cleaner and more classic, not snazzy. It also makes most shirt tuck-in issues irrelevant.

But if the consensus is that it's too much... Though I would still be interesting in hearing what he of the long post has to say on it.

The group is correct: no three-piece suits at an interview.

The three-piece has really crossed the line from looking classic to looking formal. Nowadays, they are at their most appropriate at events where, were this 1920, you would've been wearing semi-formal morningwear or eveningwear. In other words, events where you could plausibly get away with wearing a tuxedo (balls, openings, weddings, etc.), but don't want to. As I mention somewhere in the megapost, businesswear is not formalwear.

Now, you can get away with wearing a three-piece in the office, but I wouldn't wear one in any situation where I wouldn't alternatively wear a very bold and intricate paisley tie. A non-court day at the office before heading direct to an Inn of Court dinner? Absolutely. An interview? Never.

If you really like the look, it would be fine to go with three-pieces on a daily basis (except for interviews and other really important business things), but realize that it's a little like choosing to wear a bow tie on a daily basis - you are certainly properly dressed, and lots of lawyers choose to go down that stylistic road, but you'll always be "that guy in the three-piece/bow tie," never just "that guy."

Do not wear a tie bar

Disagree

If anything you're wearing specifically draws the attention of an interviewer, take that shit off for your interview. Feel free to wear your tie bar in any context other than an interview.

-Pufer

[geoduck]

Do not wear a tie bar

Disagree

If I was in charge of hiring I would auto ding anyone who came in to an interview with a skinny tie, a pocket square, a tie bar, a tie clip, a three piece suit, or was drinking an old fashioned.

Mad Men is a cool show, but you're not on it

What does wearing a vest have to do with Mad Men? I haven't ever seen the show, but they've been popular for a bit longer than it or the 60s. In fact, the waistcoat started declining in the 40s and was pretty much out of the picture for the 60s.

[geoduck]

The group is correct: no three-piece suits at an interview.

The three-piece has really crossed the line from looking classic to looking formal. Nowadays, they are at their most appropriate at events where, were this 1920, you would've been wearing semi-formal morningwear or eveningwear. In other words, events where you could plausibly get away with wearing a tuxedo (balls, openings, weddings, etc.), but don't want to. As I mention somewhere in the megapost, businesswear is not formalwear.

Now, you can get away with wearing a three-piece in the office, but I wouldn't wear one in any situation where I wouldn't alternatively wear a very bold and intricate paisley tie. A non-court day at the office before heading direct to an Inn of Court dinner? Absolutely. An interview? Never.

If you really like the look, it would be fine to go with three-pieces on a daily basis (except for interviews and other really important business things), but realize that it's a little like choosing to wear a bow tie on a daily basis - you are certainly properly dressed, and lots of lawyers choose to go down that stylistic road, but you'll always be "that guy in the three-piece/bow tie," never just "that guy."

I could deal with being that guy in the three-piece, but I'll take your advice re: interviewing. Thanks!

[Pufer]

Slim ties, yes. Skinny ties, no.

I think we need a threshold to denote Slim vs Skinny. As I understand it (via Pufer) the standard is 3 - 3.75" at the widest point so I imagine it would be at or close to 3"

There really isn't a defined category for "slim" ties. A 3" tie is narrower than the industry standard, and would look appropriate on skinnier guys in all circumstances. Below 2.75" is a skinny tie, and shouldn't be warn by anyone in the law business unless you're absolutely sure that you're not going to run into any clients, and the members of your firm don't care. The 2.75 to 3 inch area is the gray area for what is acceptable (just as the 3.75 to 4 inch area is on the upper end), and is only potentially acceptable if you are truly skinny. As a general rule, I would assert that the vast majority of folks should probably stick to 3" and up to be safe in all situations.

-Pufer

[Kilpatrick]

Do not wear a tie bar

Disagree

If I was in charge of hiring I would auto ding anyone who came in to an interview with a skinny tie, a pocket square, a tie bar, a tie clip, a three piece suit, or was drinking an old fashioned.

Mad Men is a cool show, but you're not on it

What does wearing a vest have to do with Mad Men? I haven't ever seen the show, but they've been popular for a bit longer than it or the 60s. In fact, the waistcoat started declining in the 40s and was pretty much out of the picture for the 60s.

Eh, I tend to lump all those things together. You don't necessarily have to have seen Mad Men, but it's still weird stuff to wear to a formal interview.

[Kilpatrick]

If you really like the look, it would be fine to go with three-pieces on a daily basis (except for interviews and other really important business things), but realize that it's a little like choosing to wear a bow tie on a daily basis - you are certainly properly dressed, and lots of lawyers choose to go down that stylistic road, but you'll always be "that guy in the three-piece/bow tie," never just "that guy."

Speaking of bow ties, I was doing firm research today and came across this guy:



He's actually the managing partner at the office. How does anyone take him seriouslY?

[Rooney]

Do not wear a tie bar

Disagree

If I was in charge of hiring I would auto ding anyone who came in to an interview with a skinny tie, a pocket square, a tie bar, a tie clip, a three piece suit, or was drinking an old fashioned.

Mad Men is a cool show, but you're not on it

Silly me, just planning on wearing what I always wear for work when we have to go to court. How you assume I got the idea from Mad Men, I don't know. Good luck getting to a point when you're in charge of hiring.

[Rooney]

If anything you're wearing specifically draws the attention of an interviewer, take that shit off for your interview. Feel free to wear your tie bar in any context other than an interview.

I just don't think a tasteful (read: not flashy/tacky) tie bar will draw negative attention, or any at all, from an interviewer. I work with attorneys who wear them all the time. You may point to an interview being a specific situation unlike being at work, but if you're talking old school conservative, tie bars are just that. I think they're part of a smart look overall. Agree to disagree I guess.

[Vronsky]

If anything you're wearing specifically draws the attention of an interviewer, take that shit off for your interview. Feel free to wear your tie bar in any context other than an interview.

I just don't think a tasteful (read: not flashy/tacky) tie bar will draw negative attention, or any at all, from an interviewer. I work with attorneys who wear them all the time. You may point to an interview being a specific situation unlike being at work, but if you're talking old school conservative, tie bars are just that. I think they're part of a smart look overall. Agree to disagree I guess.

Personally, I like the little bit of style that a tie bar adds to an outfit, but you're missing the point here: there is no advantage to wearing a tie bar to an an interview, but there may be a disadvantage. Of course the odds are that it wont matter much either way, but there's a 100% chance it won't help, and a 1% chance it will hurt.

Regarding "skinny" ties, there are skinnier-ties and there are plain skinny ties. If it appears from first glance that you are wearing a "skinny tie," don't wear it. If it is a slightly skinnier tie (2.75-3 inches for example), it won't appear as a skinny tie on a small frame, but just as a regular tie. The Mad Men-style straight up skinny tie (2.5 inches or under) is simply too flashy for an interview.

Regarding the freaking vest, again, there is 100% that the interviewer will not be influenced positively by your "waistcoat", and there is at least a 5% chance that he will think you are a tool. I'm not saying you are a tool. But just leave the vest in the closet for the days you interview. If you want to wear it in the office as an SA, that's probably fine. But not for the interview.

[Rooney]

Personally, I like the little bit of style that a tie bar adds to an outfit, but you're missing the point here: there is no advantage to wearing a tie bar to an an interview, but there may be a disadvantage. Of course the odds are that it wont matter much either way, but there's a 100% chance it won't help, and a 1% chance it will hurt.

Regarding "skinny" ties, there are skinnier-ties and there are plain skinny ties. If it appears from first glance that you are wearing a "skinny tie," don't wear it. If it is a slightly skinnier tie (2.75-3 inches for example), it won't appear as a skinny tie on a small frame, but just as a regular tie. The Mad Men-style straight up skinny tie (2.5 inches or under) is simply too flashy for an interview.

Regarding the freaking vest, again, there is 100% that the interviewer will not be influenced positively by your "waistcoat", and there is at least a 5% chance that he will think you are a tool. I'm not saying you are a tool. But just leave the vest in the closet for the days you interview. If you want to wear it in the office as an SA, that's probably fine. But not for the interview.

All I'm saying is I view tie bars as conservative, not a new trendy thing. As far as skinny ties go, I think hipsters are idiots. I think all the ties I own are 3" or a little over. Hell no to wearing a skinny tie ever, and same goes for the 80's Gordon Gekko ~4" landing strip ties too. Never mentioned the waistcoat myself.

[Aston2412]

I'm sorry, what exactly is hipster about a skinny tie? Maybe you're thinking of skinny jeans. And for the record, no, you should not wear skinny jeans to your interview. Unless you want to work in Seattle or Portland apparently. And then it's ok.

[James Bond]

I'm sorry, what exactly is hipster about a skinny tie?

You're kidding, right?

[Rooney]

I'm sorry, what exactly is hipster about a skinny tie?

Just the people who are wearing them these days

[geoduck]

I'm sorry, what exactly is hipster about a skinny tie? Maybe you're thinking of skinny jeans. And for the record, no, you should not wear skinny jeans to your interview. Unless you want to work in Seattle or Portland apparently. And then it's ok.

Not for business. Maybe software. Or the Starbucks jobs most of those hipsters have.

[Helmholtz]

A silk knit tie will be fine, right?