OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

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Aston2412
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:56 pm

Definitely don't do pleats. They're old and outmoded and any apparent height that they might give you is offset by the baggy appearance they'll create in front.

Flat front pants, no cuff and, if you're going for the modern look, a double vented jacket (this is usually the norm with flat front pants these days, but not always).


Also, some people say that two-button vs three-button is a personal preference. I'd say in general always go with a two-button. Three-button suits are made for tall people...who can also get away with two-button suits.


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Cool Brees
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Cool Brees » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:59 pm

I'm a flat front type of guy, but you often see older people wearing pleats. Are pleats really considered more formal? All in all, I'm sure it doesn't matter either way. Well, unless you are short or fat, I guess. :lol:

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Thirteen
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby Thirteen » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:05 pm

HenryKillinger wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:Where is a good place to find some non-iron slim-fit dress shirts? I'm not looking to spend Brooks Brothers prices, but man I just picked up a "fitted" shirt at Macy's (Geoffrey Beene - comes in Regular, Slim, and Fitted) and it was hanging off me like a plastic bag.

Nordstrom Rack.

I have fairly broad shoulder for my waist-size/height so it's harder to find shirts that don't balloon out at the waist. Nordstrom brand Fitted or Slim shirts are the best fitting shirts I've been able to find in the $20-$45 price range. They're usually hanging on one of the racks with all the other shirts, so you'll have to do some digging. You'll know them by the embroidered sailboat at the bottom of the placket on the non- button side. Only thing is that the Rack is always hit-or-miss and they don't always have those shirts there but if you keep going every now and again like I do, you'll find them.


+1 on Nordstrom fitted and slim shirts. The Mens Half-Yearly Sale starts on Friday the 17th, so check out the store and website for deals.

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Rooney
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby Rooney » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:11 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:
Went here yesterday. The selection was WTF? They either had a Medium with a 15-15 1/2 neck or a Small with a 14-14 1/2 neck. I'm not nearly asian enough to get into those.



Your neck is smaller than 15-15 1/2 and bigger than 14-14 1/2??

Stanford4Me wrote:Gilt has been so underwhelming for me.


Gilt was good when it first came out, now it's a sharkfest. Plus, they're selling made-for-Gilt stuff now instead of top quality overstock. Not a fan anymore...

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swinger
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby swinger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:16 pm

.
Last edited by swinger on Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Suits (Clothing, not law)

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:27 pm

Rooney wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:
Went here yesterday. The selection was WTF? They either had a Medium with a 15-15 1/2 neck or a Small with a 14-14 1/2 neck. I'm not nearly asian enough to get into those.



Your neck is smaller than 15-15 1/2 and bigger than 14-14 1/2??


No, I'm a 15 1/2, but I'm more a small than a medium. When I tried the good-size neck on, the sleeves were way too long. And I couldn't even button the 14-14 1/2 around my neck though the body seemed OK since it was a small. S S S n' M M M.

bikepilot
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby bikepilot » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:37 pm

At OCI the lawyers will be interviewing about a billion people a day while worrying about what's happening WRT their real work. They won't be scrutinizing your clothes. As long as you look professional, your attire won't be remembered and that's a good thing. Wear stuff that fits and don't wear a black suit. Also avoid anything particularly interesting - lawyers are largely a boring, conventional bunch. imo you are better off buying a cheaper suit and getting it tailored to fit perfectly than buying an expensive suit and having a poor fit. Of course an expensive, perfectly tailored suit would be nice, but employers really don't care about the $$ of your suit - they know you are students and don't expect $1k+ suits and, I suspect, a majority of attorneys at big law first couldn't spot an expensive suit from a cheap one.

kaiser
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby kaiser » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:44 pm

bikepilot wrote:At OCI the lawyers will be interviewing about a billion people a day while worrying about what's happening WRT their real work. They won't be scrutinizing your clothes. As long as you look professional, your attire won't be remembered and that's a good thing. Wear stuff that fits and don't wear a black suit. Also avoid anything particularly interesting - lawyers are largely a boring, conventional bunch. imo you are better off buying a cheaper suit and getting it tailored to fit perfectly than buying an expensive suit and having a poor fit. Of course an expensive, perfectly tailored suit would be nice, but employers really don't care about the $$ of your suit - they know you are students and don't expect $1k+ suits and, I suspect, a majority of attorneys at big law first couldn't spot an expensive suit from a cheap one.


My lawyer buddy told me the exact same thing. He did some interviewing and said he didn't pay any attention to the clothes, so long as they looked neat and professional. People on this site make far too big a deal out of details that only they will be cognizant of. As long as it fits well and looks professional, you are fine.

Aston2412
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:04 pm

Getting something tailored is definitely the way to go though - all of you suits should at least be tailored to you before you wear it to an interview.

BarCliff
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby BarCliff » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:19 pm

The shoes must match the belt/suit.

Don't think people won't notice. They do.

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quakeroats
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby quakeroats » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:42 pm

Three ways you can stand out without going too far--keep in mind that these changes will only help modestly:

1. Wear a nice pair of shoes. Good shoes last for decades, so don't worry too much about the expense. You'll pay somewhere in the $400-600 range. Don't bother going any higher at this point in life as most of the changes beyond $600 aren't visible. Your shoes must have laces and they must have a conservative pattern if any. Buy your shoes first and then buy a matching belt. Make sure you do this in person and make sure it matches exactly. Any of these are fine:

ImageImage
--ImageRemoved--

2. If you can afford a bespoke suit, that's the best option. While the usual price tag on these is in the $2000-5000 range, you can get them for less. New York has a number of low-price shops as do traditional clothing centers (Hong Kong). If this is too much trouble, go to Brooks Brothers. You can buy everything you'll need there besides shoes. Their 1818 line is fine, and if you want to push things get their Fitzgerald. It's a tad trendy (think Mad Men), but not in a bad way.

3. Stay under 3.5 inches for ties, but don't get a skinny tie. Keep it between 2.75 and 3.25 inches. Wear a white shirt, either custom or from Brooks Brothers, and make sure it fits your frame well. Also, make sure your pants aren't too long.

Most of all, don't look too young. Spend some time around professionals in their 30s and 40s if you have to, but don't say anything or act in any way that gives your interlocutor the impression you're young. Common examples of things you shouldn't do include using slang your interviewer wouldn't, having any facial hair if you're under 35, and using anything in your hair that a 50-year-old partner wouldn't.
Last edited by quakeroats on Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SilverE2
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby SilverE2 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:47 pm

Don't ask here. 99% of people have no idea how to dress. Go to http://www.styleforum.net, do a search for "law" or "interview" and go from there.

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Bronte
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Bronte » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:26 pm

SilverE2 wrote:Don't ask here. 99% of people have no idea how to dress. Go to http://www.styleforum.net, do a search for "law" or "interview" and go from there.


Have you visited the suits thread in the lounge? If there's anything TLS knows about fashion, it's what to wear to OCI. There's a simple, inarguable framework: (1) navy or charcoal two-button traditional cut suit, (2) red or blue pindot or houndstooth tie, (4) white or pale blue shirt, and (5) simple black belt with black captoe shoes.

Our peers, in this thread included, will rebel against this uniform. They'll whine about their individualism. The person who wears this uniform, on the other hand, will demonstrate his ability and willingness to follow simple rules. He'll allow the interviewer to focus on the important stuff.

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GeePee
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby GeePee » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:22 pm

I don't think it's necessarily bad to stray a little bit on the tie, but in general Bronte's formula is pretty much the way to go based on RL advice I've been given.

Renzo
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Renzo » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:36 pm

Bronte wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:Don't ask here. 99% of people have no idea how to dress. Go to http://www.styleforum.net, do a search for "law" or "interview" and go from there.


Have you visited the suits thread in the lounge? If there's anything TLS knows about fashion, it's what to wear to OCI. There's a simple, inarguable framework: (1) navy or charcoal two-button traditional cut suit, (2) red or blue pindot or houndstooth tie, (4) white or pale blue shirt, and (5) simple black belt with black captoe shoes.

Our peers, in this thread included, will rebel against this uniform. They'll whine about their individualism. The person who wears this uniform, on the other hand, will demonstrate his ability and willingness to follow simple rules. He'll allow the interviewer to focus on the important stuff.


For the love of god, if you want a job, do this. No one EVER got an SA gig for their dazzlingly acute sense of fashion. But I guarantee plenty of people have blown interviews with "interesting" attire. This isn't a date. Your goal should be that if your interviewer was asked what you were wearing 15 seconds after you leave, they would have no idea.

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beach_terror
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby beach_terror » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:42 pm

Renzo wrote:
Bronte wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:Don't ask here. 99% of people have no idea how to dress. Go to http://www.styleforum.net, do a search for "law" or "interview" and go from there.


Have you visited the suits thread in the lounge? If there's anything TLS knows about fashion, it's what to wear to OCI. There's a simple, inarguable framework: (1) navy or charcoal two-button traditional cut suit, (2) red or blue pindot or houndstooth tie, (4) white or pale blue shirt, and (5) simple black belt with black captoe shoes.

Our peers, in this thread included, will rebel against this uniform. They'll whine about their individualism. The person who wears this uniform, on the other hand, will demonstrate his ability and willingness to follow simple rules. He'll allow the interviewer to focus on the important stuff.


For the love of god, if you want a job, do this. No one EVER got an SA gig for their dazzlingly acute sense of fashion. But I guarantee plenty of people have blown interviews with "interesting" attire. This isn't a date. Your goal should be that if your interviewer was asked what you were wearing 15 seconds after you leave, they would have no idea.

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vamedic03
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:53 pm

quakeroats wrote:Three ways you can stand out without going too far--keep in mind that these changes will only help modestly:

1. Wear a nice pair of shoes. Good shoes last for decades, so don't worry too much about the expense. You'll pay somewhere in the $400-600 range. Don't bother going any higher at this point in life as most of the changes beyond $600 aren't visible. Your shoes must have laces and they must have a conservative pattern if any. Buy your shoes first and then buy a matching belt. Make sure you do this in person and make sure it matches exactly. Any of these are fine:

ImageImage
--ImageRemoved--

2. If you can afford a bespoke suit, that's the best option. While the usual price tag on these is in the $2000-5000 range, you can get them for less. New York has a number of low-price shops as do traditional clothing centers (Hong Kong). If this is too much trouble, go to Brooks Brothers. You can buy everything you'll need there besides shoes. Their 1818 line is fine, and if you want to push things get their Fitzgerald. It's a tad trendy (think Mad Men), but not in a bad way.

3. Stay under 3.5 inches for ties, but don't get a skinny tie. Keep it between 2.75 and 3.25 inches. Wear a white shirt, either custom or from Brooks Brothers, and make sure it fits your frame well. Also, make sure your pants aren't too long.

Most of all, don't look too young. Spend some time around professionals in their 30s and 40s if you have to, but don't say anything or act in any way that gives your interlocutor the impression you're young. Common examples of things you shouldn't do include using slang your interviewer wouldn't, having any facial hair if you're under 35, and using anything in your hair that a 50-year-old partner wouldn't.


Um...

1) Don't spend more than $200 on shoes for interviews
2) Don't spend more than $600 on a suit for interviews

As long as you look decent, you'll be fine. There's no reason to spend more than $1000 at most for 2 shirts, 2 ties, 1 suit, 1 pair of shoes, 1 belt for OCI.

kaiser
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby kaiser » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:57 pm

People recommending spending 2000 on a suit for OCI need to get their head checked. Be realistic here. The only impression you can make with your clothes is a BAD one (i.e the only thing that will stick in their minds is if you do something off, or if you did something out of line). NO ONE will remember anything particular about a well-dressed applicant because, guess what, everyone will be well-dressed. They won't differentiate between the $200 suit and the $2000 suit. You really think they have time for that crap? You really think it would make a difference to them regarding whether or not to give you a job? Look professional and look clean and you are fine. Lets not be ridiculous about this.

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Bronte
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Bronte » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:59 pm

vamedic03 wrote:Um...

1) Don't spend more than $200 on shoes for interviews
2) Don't spend more than $600 on a suit for interviews

As long as you look decent, you'll be fine. There's no reason to spend more than $1000 at most for 2 shirts, 2 ties, 1 suit, 1 pair of shoes, 1 belt for OCI.


He's right that a good pair of shoes can go a long way in terms of durability. And if you bought them new for OCI, you could then wear them elsewhere after that (as with anything you bought for OCI). But yeah $400+ might be a little much. At this early point in our careers, I think it's hard to go much above the Allen Edmonds Park Avenue, which is an awesome captoe for $300 ($225 at the Nordstrom half yearly). For the more budget constrained (like me), the Akron Bostonian, although ultimately a shitty shoe, is perfect for interviews and is about $75. Bass also makes a decent captoe, although it's rubber soled.

Renzo
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Renzo » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:03 pm

Bronte wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:Um...

1) Don't spend more than $200 on shoes for interviews
2) Don't spend more than $600 on a suit for interviews

As long as you look decent, you'll be fine. There's no reason to spend more than $1000 at most for 2 shirts, 2 ties, 1 suit, 1 pair of shoes, 1 belt for OCI.


He's right that a good pair of shoes can go a long way in terms of durability. And if you bought them new for OCI, you could then wear them elsewhere after that (as with anything you bought for OCI). But yeah $400+ might be a little much. At this early point in our careers, I think it's hard to go much above the Allen Edmonds Park Avenue, which is an awesome captoe for $300 ($225 at the Nordstrom half yearly). For the more budget constrained (like me), the Akron Bostonian, although ultimately a shitty shoe, is perfect for interviews and is about $75. Bass also makes a decent captoe, although it's rubber soled.

Yeah, I'm with you again. If you can spare the coin (about $300) to get a good pair of Allen Edmonds or Johnson & Murpheys, do it--they'll last forever if you treat them right. If not, that's ok too. Get some plain shoes that don't look too ugly for cheap. They won't last a year, but you can replace them once you have a job.

areyouinsane
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby areyouinsane » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:25 pm

Biglaw firms in NYC are all business-casual attire in the office. Most of the people there dress poorly and look downright slovenly for the most part, since they spend nearing 24 hours a day in their offices churning paper. I did 3 doc review stints at Sullivan Cromwell and we'd occasioanlly get called upstairs to be yelled at or berated by partners/senior associates for screwing around too much, vandalizing the workstations, etc etc. Once the doods upstairs got really mad because some doc reviewers stole like 200 toners from the supply room to re-sell on ebay. I guess it never occurred to them that if they paid a living wage, people wouldn't have to do crazy stuff like that. The good thing about being a temp is that you can wear sweatpants, pajamas, wife-beaters, or anything else you want. All the temps are down in a dungeon in the basement and have no access to the rest of the firm (except during training and to get yelled at once in a while).

Still, the worst dressed partner of all time was this really, really fat guy at Paul Weiss. He wore black velcro strip "dress sneakers" probably because he was too fat to bend over and tie his shoes. Not only that, his breath smelled like a garbage truck. I think he later became a bigwig in the ABA and died of a heart attack while eating lunch.

Try to be nice to the coders if you end up supervising a doc review project, because if you ever get laid off or no-offered you'll be down in da cellar with us.

grash
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby grash » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:32 pm

Just to confirm what Aston said, can I go with the skinny tie? I'm a fairly small guy, 5'8 170ish, athletic build, and I feel like skinny ties make more sense for someone my size.

kaiser
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby kaiser » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:35 pm

Personally, I think skinny ties look pretty terrible on all but the skinniest people. 5 foot 8, and 170 doesn't sound like you are the stick-like figure that makes a skinny tie look good.

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Bronte
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Re: Lets talk OCI suits (particularly shirts)

Postby Bronte » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:42 pm

areyouinsane wrote:Biglaw firms in NYC are all business-casual attire in the office. Most of the people there dress poorly and look downright slovenly for the most part, since they spend nearing 24 hours a day in their offices churning paper. I did 3 doc review stints at Sullivan Cromwell and we'd occasioanlly get called upstairs to be yelled at or berated by partners/senior associates for screwing around too much, vandalizing the workstations, etc etc. Once the doods upstairs got really mad because some doc reviewers stole like 200 toners from the supply room to re-sell on ebay. I guess it never occurred to them that if they paid a living wage, people wouldn't have to do crazy stuff like that. The good thing about being a temp is that you can wear sweatpants, pajamas, wife-beaters, or anything else you want. All the temps are down in a dungeon in the basement and have no access to the rest of the firm (except during training and to get yelled at once in a while).

Still, the worst dressed partner of all time was this really, really fat guy at Paul Weiss. He wore black velcro strip "dress sneakers" probably because he was too fat to bend over and tie his shoes. Not only that, his breath smelled like a garbage truck. I think he later became a bigwig in the ABA and died of a heart attack while eating lunch.

Try to be nice to the coders if you end up supervising a doc review project, because if you ever get laid off or no-offered you'll be down in da cellar with us.


How this relates to anything that's being discussed in this thread on more than an utterly tangential level is beyond me, but it's hilarious nonetheless.




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