Military Law

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wolverine2009

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Re: Military Law

Postby wolverine2009 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:13 pm

I was wondering if anyone was doing OCS. I'm interested in JAG, but am also interested in loan repayment assistance. I'm putting off applying to law school till next year and thinking of doing OCS this October. Anyone on the same boat? Any advice?

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patrickd139

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Re: Military Law

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:45 pm

IN AT GLP! :D

Got the call from my local SJA this afternoon. Best of luck to the other candidates!

FeuerFrei

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Re: Military Law

Postby FeuerFrei » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:48 pm

.
Last edited by FeuerFrei on Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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patrickd139

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Re: Military Law

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:52 pm

FeuerFrei wrote:
Awesome! School/Stats?

Thanks! Mid-tier 2, around top 5%, no prior military experience.

upnorthguy

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Re: Military Law

Postby upnorthguy » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:46 pm

wolverine- Since you referred to "OCS" are you talking about Army JAG?

hammer007

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Re: Military Law

Postby hammer007 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:56 am

It sounds like he's talking about being an Army line officer.

aed9

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Re: Military Law

Postby aed9 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:17 am

wolverine2009 wrote:I was wondering if anyone was doing OCS. I'm interested in JAG, but am also interested in loan repayment assistance. I'm putting off applying to law school till next year and thinking of doing OCS this October. Anyone on the same boat? Any advice?


Which branch are you referring to? OCS is the line of commissioning for USMC/USN/USA; USAF calls it OTS. Regardless, for any branch, after you commission, you'll be required to spend a certain number of years (at least 2 for AF, I believe) in your assigned MOS/AFSC/naval rating before applying for FLEP or LEP/ELP (which would allow you to attend law school and become a JAG either on active duty or excess leave). Admission into FLEP/LEP/ELP is not a guarantee. It depends on the number of applicants and the needs of the military.

If you want to be in the military, OCS/OTS is a good decision. If you want to be a JAG, it seems pretty risky to go that route.

allAF

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Re: Military Law

Postby allAF » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:41 am

'CuseLaw2011 -

AF OYCP results are in. Some calls have gone out, but not sure if all have. Best of luck!

'CuseLaw2011

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Re: Military Law

Postby 'CuseLaw2011 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:24 am

Thanks "allAF." I appreciate that.

All I can do is wait and hope. Maybe my phone will ring today...

I figure if I haven't heard anything by Friday, better start focusing next year and the DAP.

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Esquire

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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:35 am

allAF wrote:'CuseLaw2011 -

AF OYCP results are in. Some calls have gone out, but not sure if all have. Best of luck!

Wow, that's a pretty fast turnaround. I guess I'm just used to the Navy and Army taking ~2 months after the deadline. Any idea on the number of applicants and selections?

patrickd139: Congrats!

enigmaingr

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Re: Military Law

Postby enigmaingr » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:04 pm

Talked with an Army JAG the other day who did recruiting and he gave me a very interesting piece of advice. He said that an applicant's physical appearance mattered greatly. If a person looked like they were in decent shape, all was well on that end. However, of the people who looked out-of-shape/round in the tummy, he'd ask them straight-up about their physical training routine. Most weren't prepared for that question; some stammered off some BS about jogging. He'd remind them that being an Army JAG means being an officer first, lawyer second. Unlike other legal positions, physical fitness is part of the job. I thought it was interesting how he'd ask such a question. Moral of the story: if you don't look physically fit, be prepared to explain what you are doing to become so.

Motion Sickness

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Re: Military Law

Postby Motion Sickness » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:20 pm

Undead_Ed wrote:Numbers I heard for the last board were 2000 applications submitted.


Wow...2000? I'm curious, where did you hear that number? From a recruiter?

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:02 pm

Esquire wrote:
allAF wrote:'CuseLaw2011 -

AF OYCP results are in. Some calls have gone out, but not sure if all have. Best of luck!

Wow, that's a pretty fast turnaround. I guess I'm just used to the Navy and Army taking ~2 months after the deadline. Any idea on the number of applicants and selections?

patrickd139: Congrats!


7 OCYP
6 GLP

No idea how many applied.

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Rocky Estoppel

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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:11 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Esquire wrote:
allAF wrote:'CuseLaw2011 -

AF OYCP results are in. Some calls have gone out, but not sure if all have. Best of luck!

Wow, that's a pretty fast turnaround. I guess I'm just used to the Navy and Army taking ~2 months after the deadline. Any idea on the number of applicants and selections?

patrickd139: Congrats!


7 OCYP
6 GLP

No idea how many applied.
Wow. That is not many at all. Are the majority that go in through 3L direct commissions?

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:45 pm

Rocky Estoppel wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Esquire wrote:
allAF wrote:'CuseLaw2011 -

AF OYCP results are in. Some calls have gone out, but not sure if all have. Best of luck!

Wow, that's a pretty fast turnaround. I guess I'm just used to the Navy and Army taking ~2 months after the deadline. Any idea on the number of applicants and selections?

patrickd139: Congrats!


7 OCYP
6 GLP

No idea how many applied.
Wow. That is not many at all. Are the majority that go in through direct commission in 3L?


The bulk of AF Judge Advocates come through Direct Appointment, though I cannot categorically say if more apply as 3Ls or licensed attorneys.

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Rocky Estoppel

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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:38 pm

I noticed that for Air Force GLP and OYCP programs that one of the factors is a qualifying Air Force Officer Qualification Test. When does one ideally take this? Do you take it before applying to a OYCP program?

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patrickd139

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Re: Military Law

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:45 pm

Rocky Estoppel wrote:I noticed that for Air Force GLP and OYCP programs that one of the factors is a qualifying Air Force Officer Qualification Test. When does one ideally take this? Do you take it before applying to a OYCP program?


Can't speak for the OYCP, but I have not yet taken an AFOQT.

hammer007

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Re: Military Law

Postby hammer007 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:44 am

I submitted my first application to the Army JAG for the March 1 deadline. Would anyone who has been picked up in the last few boards be willing to share their stats?

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Esquire

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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:35 am

Rocky Estoppel wrote:I noticed that for Air Force GLP and OYCP programs that one of the factors is a qualifying Air Force Officer Qualification Test. When does one ideally take this? Do you take it before applying to a OYCP program?

You can contact the ROTC detachment you will be joining. They usually administer the AFOQT. I took mine while my OYCP application was still pending just so I could get it out of the way. You can take it whenever, so as long as it's done before you actually join the ROTC detachment, which would be in the summer, I suspect. I figured I'd get the AFOQT out of the way before finals started. If I made OYCP, great. If not, oh well.

The test itself wasn't too difficult. Just run through a practice one and you should be fine. I studied maybe two hours or so and passed with flying colors. There are for sure some things you have to go over, though, since it's not all intuitive. For example, general flying knowledge. This test does not factor into your OYCP application, as far as I know.

Patrick Bateman wrote:7 OCYP
6 GLP

No idea how many applied.

Insane.

BrutusBuckeye

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Re: Military Law

Postby BrutusBuckeye » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:14 pm

Esquire wrote:
Rocky Estoppel wrote:I noticed that for Air Force GLP and OYCP programs that one of the factors is a qualifying Air Force Officer Qualification Test. When does one ideally take this? Do you take it before applying to a OYCP program?

You can contact the ROTC detachment you will be joining. They usually administer the AFOQT. I took mine while my OYCP application was still pending just so I could get it out of the way. You can take it whenever, so as long as it's done before you actually join the ROTC detachment, which would be in the summer, I suspect. I figured I'd get the AFOQT out of the way before finals started. If I made OYCP, great. If not, oh well.

The test itself wasn't too difficult. Just run through a practice one and you should be fine. I studied maybe two hours or so and passed with flying colors. There are for sure some things you have to go over, though, since it's not all intuitive. For example, general flying knowledge. This test does not factor into your OYCP application, as far as I know.

Patrick Bateman wrote:7 OCYP
6 GLP

No idea how many applied.

Insane.


Wow. So much for the theory that OYCP was easier to get into.

I haven't heard back, which I can only assume is a ding. Oh well, I'm still waiting to hear back from the Navy. If that doesn't work out, I guess it'll be time to look into DAP.

tdaly01

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Re: Military Law

Postby tdaly01 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:42 pm

I have had shoulder surgery and surgery on both of my calves (hs and currently undergrad) but I am now fully recovered, would I be medically clear to enter a military branch as a JAG?

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Rotor

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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:23 pm

tdaly01 wrote:I have had shoulder surgery and surgery on both of my calves (hs and currently undergrad) but I am now fully recovered, would I be medically clear to enter a military branch as a JAG?
Medical clearance is a very fact-specific issue, which means no one here is likely able to provide a definitive answer. Further complicating the analysis is the different standards for each service.

You sound like you'd be fine (for Navy at least), but you'll have to check with them (JAGC) to be sure.

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Undead_Ed

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Re: Military Law

Postby Undead_Ed » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:12 pm

Motion Sickness wrote:
Undead_Ed wrote:Numbers I heard for the last board were 2000 applications submitted.


Wow...2000? I'm curious, where did you hear that number? From a recruiter?


I got it from a Field Screening Officer (recruiter). He also said about 3000 applications opened but not submitted.


In other news, I got my AF denial letter on Thursday. Not totally unexpected. But it is actually pretty cool that you can reapply with minimal effort--just send a request in writing to be reconsidered on the next board.

hammer007

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Re: Military Law

Postby hammer007 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:37 am

I'm trying to gauge my chances of being picked up by the Army or Air Force, and if anyone has any insight on the selection process, I would really appreciate some input. I don't really know what factors these services consider to be the most important. I am ranked third in my class at a lower tier 2 school with law review. I didn't do moot court, and I have only a couple extracurriculars in law school, though significantly more in undergrad. Perhaps this makes me competitive at law firms (in a normal environment), but I don't know if any of this has any bearing on JAG board decisions. I would appreciate any insight from those who have it. Thank you.

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Undead_Ed

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Re: Military Law

Postby Undead_Ed » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:27 pm

hammer007 wrote:I'm trying to gauge my chances of being picked up by the Army or Air Force, and if anyone has any insight on the selection process, I would really appreciate some input. I don't really know what factors these services consider to be the most important. I am ranked third in my class at a lower tier 2 school with law review. I didn't do moot court, and I have only a couple extracurriculars in law school, though significantly more in undergrad. Perhaps this makes me competitive at law firms (in a normal environment), but I don't know if any of this has any bearing on JAG board decisions. I would appreciate any insight from those who have it. Thank you.


If you read through this forum, a daunting task at 40 pages, you will read a few hundred people make their guesses about what the various services are looking for. It really is hard to say. The input you will get is either from those selected or from those who were not selected. Neither can tell you anything definitive, but maybe they can tell you their stats. If you are interested in opinion, I believe the services are interested in a lot of those things that firms are interested in:

First, they expect that you will be a scholar. This will included a respectable class rank, good grades, and possibly a decent school. It should also include some of the scholarly work you have done, like law review.

Second, the services will expect you to be an athlete. It isn't enough to get in shape if you get the job. They are going to want to see that this is already something that you are motivated to do. Any team sports or athletic competitions should help you here.

Finally, they expect you to be a leader. Your community leadership, former military experience, special training, management positions, and so forth will help you here. Moot court or trial experience should also help to show leadership.

Possessing these three qualities should show that you are a well rounded person, which is the overall thing that the services are seeking. The trouble is that in this economy, there are a lot of people with great qualifications seeking work and/or job security. It is going to ratchet up the threshold you will have to meet on each of these factors. It may take you a few selection boards to get selected. If you are lucky, you can get in with just one. If it is really worth it to you, you will keep applying. After all, there are 1700 Army lawyers (for example) why shouldn't one of them be you?

But I also think many are surprised by the fact that getting into the military as a lawyer is actually pretty difficult. I think this is very different than getting into the military as a doctor--if you have a heartbeat and an MD, you're golden.



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