Military Law

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:27 pm

brownshoe wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:2. When (not if) you deploy, your spouse is not coming with you.

Correct. To add some more info for non-military types - you can get stationed overseas for a 2-3 year tour where your family does go with you. This is obviously not a deployment, just a potential assigned duty location.


Nice add on. I should also note that there are some remote assignments, like Korea, that are a 1 year unaccompanied (no family) gig.

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patrickd139
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Re: Military Law

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:36 pm

AF board is sitting soon (this week?) for the GLP. Got a call because my file was incomplete and that they needed it by today to get considered. (Registrar didn't send in my transcripts like I asked them to.)

Best of luck to all the GLP applicants!

crallen
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Re: Military Law

Postby crallen » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:45 pm

Undead_Ed wrote:
crallen wrote:I guess I never checked the FSOs because I assumed they were just a region which doesn't really apply to me as I am an ROTC Scholarship currently... but I will try the one at the law school I am hoping to attend and see what he knows. Thanks for the info.


So you are trying to get an Ed Delay? Or you are debating whether or not to try to get an Ed Delay?



EXACTLY! Just had some questions on how it works and what my chances are. No one in my Army Department here at school seems to have any idea past the review board being in October...

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Undead_Ed
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Re: Military Law

Postby Undead_Ed » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:03 am

crallen wrote:
Undead Ed wrote:
crallen wrote:I guess I never checked the FSOs because I assumed they were just a region which doesn't really apply to me as I am an ROTC Scholarship currently... but I will try the one at the law school I am hoping to attend and see what he knows. Thanks for the info.


So you are trying to get an Ed Delay? Or you are debating whether or not to try to get an Ed Delay?


EXACTLY! Just had some questions on how it works and what my chances are. No one in my Army Department here at school seems to have any idea past the review board being in October...


You put in for it about the same time as your ROTC accessions packet during your senior year. It is definitely best to have already been accepted to a law school when you put in the packet, even if you do not intend to go to the school you have been accepted to. If you have an acceptance, you are very likely to get it. I think they accept about 75 officers per year. FYI, the Army Reg governing Ed Delays is AR 601-25.

If you want to know some of the ins and outs, PM me your email and I'll put you in touch with a guy I know who is Army Ed Delay.

millieb
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Re: Military Law

Postby millieb » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:00 am

Does anyone know the statistics for women in Navy JAG?

At what stage during law school does one start applying? It sounds like decisions are made long before graduation.

Also, for the fitness requirements, how much time do you get for the sit-ups and push-ups? I've found the charts and everything else but I can't find the time allotment.

And thank you to everyone for all the great information!

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:22 am

millieb wrote:Does anyone know the statistics for women in Navy JAG?

At what stage during law school does one start applying? It sounds like decisions are made long before graduation.

Also, for the fitness requirements, how much time do you get for the sit-ups and push-ups? I've found the charts and everything else but I can't find the time allotment.

And thank you to everyone for all the great information!

2 mins sit-ups; 2 mins push-ups. Then the cardio: 1.5 mile run/500 m swim are standard events (your choice which you do) and some commands authorize bike/stairmaster.

I'll leave your other questions for those who have gone through the process.

brownshoe
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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:57 am

millieb wrote:Does anyone know the statistics for women in Navy JAG?

At what stage during law school does one start applying? It sounds like decisions are made long before graduation.

Also, for the fitness requirements, how much time do you get for the sit-ups and push-ups? I've found the charts and everything else but I can't find the time allotment.

And thank you to everyone for all the great information!

I think it's about 1/3 female. I don't have statistics, but they appear well-represented in the higher ranks, including the #2 JAG (2 star admiral). You can apply after you complete your finish your first year of law school. There are several boards per year, and you can keep applying for the student program until the end of your last semester. It's sort of like rolling admissions in that you could be selected early in your 2L year, but they do save some spots until the end, so you always have a chance.

enigmaingr
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Re: Military Law

Postby enigmaingr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:15 am

Just curious to know how CLE works as a JAG. Do any of the services allow (or encourage) stateside JAGs to attend local CLE training/conferences. Are JAGs allowed/encouraged to become involved in the local legal community?

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Undead_Ed
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Re: Military Law

Postby Undead_Ed » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:38 pm

enigmaingr wrote:Just curious to know how CLE works as a JAG. Do any of the services allow (or encourage) stateside JAGs to attend local CLE training/conferences. Are JAGs allowed/encouraged to become involved in the local legal community?


I asked Air Force what the policy was on pro bono work. I was told you are not allowed to represent clients outside the military. (Opinion: I think that the military services have a blanket prohibition in their ethical rules.) You can actually take a second job, provided it has NOTHING to do with practicing law--go be a Walmart greeter or something.

Not sure about the CLEs apart from that your JAG training should take care of any state requirements.

enigmaingr
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Re: Military Law

Postby enigmaingr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:19 pm

Undead_Ed wrote:I asked Air Force what the policy was on pro bono work. I was told you are not allowed to represent clients outside the military. (Opinion: I think that the military services have a blanket prohibition in their ethical rules.) You can actually take a second job, provided it has NOTHING to do with practicing law--go be a Walmart greeter or something.


That makes sense, actually. JAGs can't even advise service members on purely civil matters (i.e. divorce) so I'd imagine they would want to maintain that separation by prohibiting pro bono work. While in the military, you are practicing military law and nothing more.

I'm not sure about the other services but I know that the Army technically allows for active duty members to take second jobs. However, permission must be obtained from the commander. The only time I've heard of a commander approving something like this was for one of our officers to teach a class through the Ed Center on post...something very limited in hours.

I'm still hoping that someone can state whether JAGs can attend/participate in local bar events and activities...mainly for networking purposes.

I'm also a bit curious to know if JAGs are subjected to the same sort of officer politics that line officers are like mandatory evening events/dinners/ect.

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Rocky Estoppel
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:29 pm

For Navy Jag:

I know that you have to finish your first year to apply. My question is, how early can I submit my application? I want to avoid any delay, can I schedule an interview in June or July for the August board and have my stuff done by July?

If I can, I want to slowly get my paperwork together this semester and get things done as early as possible. Navy and Air Force both appeal to me but my wife is pushing for Navy. She likes the possible places you can be stationed more than the other services. And really she knows what military culture is like and that I could be stationed anywhere, but there is more likelihood of being somewhere she'd enjoy in the Navy for her. If I'm going to do this, I have to have her full support so whatever makes her the most comfortable is very important to me.

Also, I heard somewhere that the Navy contracts some of their legal work out? If this is true, does this mean less opportunity for a variety of legal work?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:03 pm

To answer the original question: We can attend CLE. The bulk of our JAG training (JASOC and the courses beyond) qualifies for CLE hours and most states exempt active duty from CLE requirements.

Part of the legal community: Yes but there are limitations to anything that can be considered political. I help out with local PAD Pre-Law Chapter and several of us help judge moot court/trial team competitions at the local law school.

Ed is correct regarding a bar on representation of clients in any form of civilian practice.

I might be reading this wrong but we can, and often do, advise servicemembers/retirees/dependants on civil issues such as divorce in our legal assistance capacity. We cannot go to court for them or anything, but I am constantly reviewing paperwork, explaining the relevant law, etc.

enigmaingr
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Re: Military Law

Postby enigmaingr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:29 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:

I might be reading this wrong but we can, and often do, advise servicemembers/retirees/dependants on civil issues such as divorce in our legal assistance capacity. We cannot go to court for them or anything, but I am constantly reviewing paperwork, explaining the relevant law, etc.


Thanks for this info. It is a subtle, but important distinction. I knew that JAGs can't actually represent service members in civil actions but I wasn't aware that you can advise.

I'm curious about how that typically works with JAGs most likely not being licensed in the particular state they are stationed in. For instance, would a JAG licensed in Michigan be able to advise service members on Kentucky civil law while stationed there? And what about attorney/client privilege in these cases?

crallen
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Re: Military Law

Postby crallen » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:34 pm

PB, I am sure you have been asked this somewhere in this thread, but I know that the JAG Corps for all branches is selective. What grades would you say typically makes you competitive? (Yes, I know this is AF and I am Army but I am just looking for ball park info)

BTW, I PMed you Undead_Ed.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:31 pm

enigmaingr wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:

I might be reading this wrong but we can, and often do, advise servicemembers/retirees/dependants on civil issues such as divorce in our legal assistance capacity. We cannot go to court for them or anything, but I am constantly reviewing paperwork, explaining the relevant law, etc.


Thanks for this info. It is a subtle, but important distinction. I knew that JAGs can't actually represent service members in civil actions but I wasn't aware that you can advise.

I'm curious about how that typically works with JAGs most likely not being licensed in the particular state they are stationed in. For instance, would a JAG licensed in Michigan be able to advise service members on Kentucky civil law while stationed there? And what about attorney/client privilege in these cases?


An unforgiveable amount of my week is dedicated to legal assistance issues. Bankruptcy, landlord tenant, divorce, small claims, etc, etc.

It is rare to have JAGs that are barred in the state of their base. I work out West with a Midwest law license. We get smart very quickly on the state's laws. That said, I constantly get out of left field questions like Arkansas child custody laws and Maine probate laws. I Google quite a bit.

We form an attorney-client relationship when we take on clients for legal assistance. No different than in a private practice setting.

brownshoe
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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:32 pm

Rocky Estoppel wrote:For Navy Jag:

I know that you have to finish your first year to apply. My question is, how early can I submit my application? I want to avoid any delay, can I schedule an interview in June or July for the August board and have my stuff done by July?

If I can, I want to slowly get my paperwork together this semester and get things done as early as possible. Navy and Air Force both appeal to me but my wife is pushing for Navy. She likes the possible places you can be stationed more than the other services. And really she knows what military culture is like and that I could be stationed anywhere, but there is more likelihood of being somewhere she'd enjoy in the Navy for her. If I'm going to do this, I have to have her full support so whatever makes her the most comfortable is very important to me.

Also, I heard somewhere that the Navy contracts some of their legal work out? If this is true, does this mean less opportunity for a variety of legal work?

You can interview in June and submit your package as soon as it's complete.

We do contract out some work. The big one I'm aware of is claims. Outside of that, I think we do everything else the other services do - correct me if I'm wrong, Patrick. Trust me, there is still an enormous variety of work you will be doing - which I love.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:35 pm

crallen wrote:PB, I am sure you have been asked this somewhere in this thread, but I know that the JAG Corps for all branches is selective. What grades would you say typically makes you competitive? (Yes, I know this is AF and I am Army but I am just looking for ball park info)

BTW, I PMed you Undead_Ed.


There really is no bright-line cut off with grades. The services obviously want sharp people, so a higher GPA is going to greatly improve your chances of selection. That said, there are plenty of JAGs out there without Latin Honors, so grades are just a small piece in the puzzle. If you are in the bottom half of the class, you may have an uphill struggle. All in all, there are no published medians or other way that I can say something constructive like "top 20% and you are fine."

Based on my office composition, I would argue that most, but not all, base level JAGs are came from top 1/3rd or better. I walked and did some diploma checking. Of 12 attorneys with open doors, 10 had Latin Honors.

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Cole S. Law
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Re: Military Law

Postby Cole S. Law » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:01 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
enigmaingr wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:

I might be reading this wrong but we can, and often do, advise servicemembers/retirees/dependants on civil issues such as divorce in our legal assistance capacity. We cannot go to court for them or anything, but I am constantly reviewing paperwork, explaining the relevant law, etc.


Thanks for this info. It is a subtle, but important distinction. I knew that JAGs can't actually represent service members in civil actions but I wasn't aware that you can advise.

I'm curious about how that typically works with JAGs most likely not being licensed in the particular state they are stationed in. For instance, would a JAG licensed in Michigan be able to advise service members on Kentucky civil law while stationed there? And what about attorney/client privilege in these cases?


An unforgiveable amount of my week is dedicated to legal assistance issues. Bankruptcy, landlord tenant, divorce, small claims, etc, etc.

It is rare to have JAGs that are barred in the state of their base. I work out West with a Midwest law license. We get smart very quickly on the state's laws. That said, I constantly get out of left field questions like Arkansas child custody laws and Maine probate laws. I Google quite a bit.

We form an attorney-client relationship when we take on clients for legal assistance. No different than in a private practice setting.


No Lexis Nexis?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:18 pm

Cole S. Law wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
enigmaingr wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:

I might be reading this wrong but we can, and often do, advise servicemembers/retirees/dependants on civil issues such as divorce in our legal assistance capacity. We cannot go to court for them or anything, but I am constantly reviewing paperwork, explaining the relevant law, etc.


Thanks for this info. It is a subtle, but important distinction. I knew that JAGs can't actually represent service members in civil actions but I wasn't aware that you can advise.

I'm curious about how that typically works with JAGs most likely not being licensed in the particular state they are stationed in. For instance, would a JAG licensed in Michigan be able to advise service members on Kentucky civil law while stationed there? And what about attorney/client privilege in these cases?


An unforgiveable amount of my week is dedicated to legal assistance issues. Bankruptcy, landlord tenant, divorce, small claims, etc, etc.

It is rare to have JAGs that are barred in the state of their base. I work out West with a Midwest law license. We get smart very quickly on the state's laws. That said, I constantly get out of left field questions like Arkansas child custody laws and Maine probate laws. I Google quite a bit.

We form an attorney-client relationship when we take on clients for legal assistance. No different than in a private practice setting.


No Lexis Nexis?


We have Westlaw. That's fine for motions research but when you have a client in your office and need an answer in a hurry, never underestimate the power of Google to point you in the right direction.

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Undead_Ed
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Re: Military Law

Postby Undead_Ed » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:10 am

Anyone hear back from February Active Duty Board for Air Force yet?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:04 pm

Undead_Ed wrote:Anyone hear back from February Active Duty Board for Air Force yet?


Results have not dropped on FLITE yet. Keep in mind that Bolling AFB, home of JAX, was shut down for 11 days due to the Snowpocalypse. I would expect at least another week before DAP results come out.

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Cole S. Law
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Re: Military Law

Postby Cole S. Law » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:10 pm

When you get an offer from JAG, how long do you have to accept? I'd prefer to stay in the private sector, but would go back to the service if that isn't an option.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 pm

Cole S. Law wrote:When you get an offer from JAG, how long do you have to accept? I'd prefer to stay in the private sector, but would go back to the service if that isn't an option.


You may get a few days, max, unless there extraordinary circumstances. At least with the Air Force, for every 20 selected by a board, there are roughly another 350 turned away. If you don't jump on the offer, they will just go to that 21st candidate.

AFBRAT
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Re: Military Law

Postby AFBRAT » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:55 pm

Email from JAX

Asking for Fall 09 grades.....interviewed 3 days before Fall grades were posted to official transcripts.

NLT Date 2/18 for grade update for DAP.

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Drew82abndiv
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Re: Military Law

Postby Drew82abndiv » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:16 pm

Recently got accepted to Navy JAG as a 2L. Anyone else hear from Navy? Anyone else joining me in 2011 after graduation? Would love to hear from you if you are!

Drew




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