Military Law

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 334392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:55 pm

Hey howell, any idea roughly how many selections and applications there have been in the last few windows? Does it seem to be getting any more/less competitive recently?

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:19 pm

howell wrote:If you put California, they will think ANY base in California will make you happy. So make sure you're willing to roll the dice if you put a particular state.


See, e.g.: Edwards Air Force Base.

lawschoolgirl12345

New
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby lawschoolgirl12345 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:06 pm

Thank you so much Howell. This info is very helpful.

lawschoolgirl12345

New
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby lawschoolgirl12345 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:49 pm

Another question - from what I understand we sign up as JAGs for 4 years active duty. Does the 4 years start when we get to our first base assignment or when we start training at TFOT? Or is it when we sign on the dotted line prior to TFOT? I am curious to know. Thank you!

Anonymous User
Posts: 334392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:37 pm

.

User avatar
Quasar

New
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:10 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Quasar » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:45 pm

I had a question regarding base location.

I remember Patrick posting a while back that when selected one submits their "dream sheet" to JAX.

At what point during the accessions process does this occur? And does this have anything thing to do with the preference page submitted with our online JAG application? If the latter, can those preferences be modified?

Also, regarding the murky topic of medical waivers. Does anyone know how much weight is given to the MEPS physician's recommendation on granting a waiver for a potentially disqualifying surgery? Ultimately I know the decision rests with the Surgeon General, but I was just wondering if anyone had some insight on how the process/timeframe typically plays out?

howell wrote:
Quasar wrote:Quick question, is selection contingent on passing the Bar on the first attempt?

There is not a hard rule that you have to pass the bar on the first attempt, but there is no guarantee they will take you either. AFI 51-101 lays out the process for requesting a deferment due to failing the bar or other reasons:

5.5.2. Deferment. Selectees who experience a delay in licensing, such as failing the bar examination, must immediately notify the Chief of Accessions and request a deferment in writing. The request must detail the circumstances surrounding their preparation for the bar exam, list the steps necessary to reattempt legal licensing, and explain their plan for studying for the next bar exam. Selectees who wish to delay entrance onto active duty for other reasons must submit a written request detailing the reason and the date available for active duty. Deferments are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. AF/JAX is the approval authority for all deferment requests.

As always, thank you for the information Howell.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:01 pm

lawschoolgirl12345 wrote:Another question - from what I understand we sign up as JAGs for 4 years active duty. Does the 4 years start when we get to our first base assignment or when we start training at TFOT? Or is it when we sign on the dotted line prior to TFOT? I am curious to know. Thank you!


Your first day of active duty is the day you leave for Maxwell. The clock starts running then.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:06 pm

Quasar wrote:I had a question regarding base location.

I remember Patrick posting a while back that when selected one submits their "dream sheet" to JAX.

At what point during the accessions process does this occur? And does this have anything thing to do with the preference page submitted with our online JAG application? If the latter, can those preferences be modified?



AF folks a little less long in the tooth will have to answer how one updates their dream sheet these days. I was able to send in an updated one from the original one that was part of my application - I'm almost certain I emailed to to the accessions office but that was well before the advent of the online application process.

My updated sheet was dramatically different that the original one. My first dream sheet was the standard nice geographic locations - after thankfully getting the chance to talk to some more experienced JAGs about my desire to do courts, I took their advice and stacked my updated sheet with all military justice heavy bases.

User avatar
howell

Silver
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does the AF have an alternate list, like the Navy?

Not that I'm aware of. I would guess the approach is we'll pick up new rounds of people on each of the 3 boards throughout the year.

User avatar
howell

Silver
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey howell, any idea roughly how many selections and applications there have been in the last few windows? Does it seem to be getting any more/less competitive recently?

I don't have the most recent numbers. I'll check to see what I can find.

If I had to guess, it's probably a little less competitive in general, but we're probably only talking a few percentage points at most. In 2012, it was a 4% selection rate. The recent rates have been at 10% or just over. But if an SJA interviews 10 applicants, they can likely at best get 1-2 selected, but several of the rest of the applicants might also make outstanding JAGs.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:49 am

Is it true accepting SLRP causes you to incur additional service obligation?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:48 am

Which AF bases are military justice heavy?

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is it true accepting SLRP causes you to incur additional service obligation?


Google is your friend.

AFI 51-101, para 12.4.5:

Active Duty Service Commitment. Judge advocates who participate in loan repayment must be serving in their initial AFJAGC active duty service commitment, of at least four years, and must complete their initial active duty service commitment on active duty in the AFJAGC. Participation in loan repayment does not result in an additional active duty service commitment. However, judge advocates who separate prior to completing their initial four years may not be entitled loan repayment. Judge advocates become eligible for loan repayment after completing first, second and third years in the AFJAGC

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:Which AF bases are military justice heavy?


This has already been discussed several times in this thread. Start digging.

User avatar
Quasar

New
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:10 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Quasar » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:Which AF bases are military justice heavy?

I recently searched through the thread and if IIRC the following bases have been mentioned:

Lackland, Ramstein, Davis-Monthan, Travis, Scott, Sheppard, Charleston, Nellis, Hurlburt Field

As PB suggested, search through the thread. It is a treasure trove of information.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:41 am

Quasar wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Which AF bases are military justice heavy?

I recently searched through the thread and if IIRC the following bases have been mentioned:

Lackland, Ramstein, Davis-Monthan, Travis, Scott, Sheppard, Charleston, Nellis, Hurlburt Field

As PB suggested, search through the thread. It is a treasure trove of information.


While not exhaustive, the AF trial docket can be instructive on this as well:

https://legalassistance.law.af.mil/AMJA ... ocket.html

As noted previously, courts often come in feast/famine cycles -- a quiet month can be followed by a drug ring or a few Article 15 turn downs.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:50 pm

Hey Army selectees, does anyone have the current JARO contact person? Is it still SGT Self?

Conster31

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:52 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Conster31 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:54 am

Navy alternate selects: I still have not gotten an email from OS1 [name redacted for privacy]. Even the LT emailed on my behalf. Am I the only person not yet with a recruiter assignment? starting to get a little worried that I am falling behind the curve

ubersaurusrex

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Military Law

Postby ubersaurusrex » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:35 am

Conster31 wrote:Navy alternate selects: I still have not gotten an email from OS1 [name redacted for privacy]. Even the LT emailed on my behalf. Am I the only person not yet with a recruiter assignment? starting to get a little worried that I am falling behind the curve


I was actually emailed directly by my assigned recruiter, not the OS1 referenced in the email. You might try calling the local recruiting office directly to check on the status of their officer recruiter and see if they can help you.

Elle in Combat Boots

New
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:03 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:58 am

ubersaurusrex wrote:
Conster31 wrote:Navy alternate selects: I still have not gotten an email from OS1 [name redacted for privacy]. Even the LT emailed on my behalf. Am I the only person not yet with a recruiter assignment? starting to get a little worried that I am falling behind the curve


I was actually emailed directly by my assigned recruiter, not the OS1 referenced in the email. You might try calling the local recruiting office directly to check on the status of their officer recruiter and see if they can help you.


The accessions officer is back in the office now--not sure which "LT" emailed on your behalf, but I'd reach out to the accessions&recruiting office again. A few folks still don't have recruiter assignments, so it might be a little more waiting. I would not randomly ask the local recruiting office if you are assigned to them.

Conster31

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:52 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Conster31 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:31 am

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
ubersaurusrex wrote:
Conster31 wrote:Navy alternate selects: I still have not gotten an email from OS1 [name redacted for privacy]. Even the LT emailed on my behalf. Am I the only person not yet with a recruiter assignment? starting to get a little worried that I am falling behind the curve


I was actually emailed directly by my assigned recruiter, not the OS1 referenced in the email. You might try calling the local recruiting office directly to check on the status of their officer recruiter and see if they can help you.


The accessions officer is back in the office now--not sure which "LT" emailed on your behalf, but I'd reach out to the accessions&recruiting office again. A few folks still don't have recruiter assignments, so it might be a little more waiting. I would not randomly ask the local recruiting office if you are assigned to them.


Finally heard, thank you all

Anonymous User
Posts: 334392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:06 pm

Current 3L AF select. I've been looking at uniforms to get an idea of how much I need to set aside to buy them (since I know we only get $400 for "uniform allowance"). I have a couple questions:

1) I've seen there are two different qualities of service dress. The standard DLATS jacket is $180 and there's another one available for $420 (I assume it is Brooks Brothers). Same goes for trousers. Are the more expensive ones worth the additional cost? How frequently do we wear service dress?

2) I have been told by several Army officers that when I buy OCPs, even though the name tapes are velcro, I should still have them sewn on since it "looks better". While I have seen some with it sewn on (and in my opinion it does look better) is it worth the added cost, or should I just stick to the velcro?

3) Do I need to buy mess dress?

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Current 3L AF select. I've been looking at uniforms to get an idea of how much I need to set aside to buy them (since I know we only get $400 for "uniform allowance"). I have a couple questions:

1) I've seen there are two different qualities of service dress. The standard DLATS jacket is $180 and there's another one available for $420 (I assume it is Brooks Brothers). Same goes for trousers. Are the more expensive ones worth the additional cost? How frequently do we wear service dress?

2) I have been told by several Army officers that when I buy OCPs, even though the name tapes are velcro, I should still have them sewn on since it "looks better". While I have seen some with it sewn on (and in my opinion it does look better) is it worth the added cost, or should I just stick to the velcro?

3) Do I need to buy mess dress?


1. Service dress - two considerations if it is worth it: if you can afford it and are you going to try to be in court as a TC, hope to make ADC, etc. If you fancy yourself a litigator, I would invest in the Brooks Brothers service dress. Days in court are too long and courtrooms get too hot to sweat it out wearing the polyester horse blanket that is the standard issue.

I know I mentioned this in response to a similar question but I ended up getting bespoke service dress made when I was in Korea. Almost every ADC, STC, SDC, and Military Judge that rolled through Osan did as well. The comfort and fit was worth every penny because I wore it so much between courts, boards, and the like.

If you aren't going for the military justice "track," it is less important in my mind as you likely will not wear it quite as often. There has also been discussion at the CSAF/CMSAF levels about rebooting the service dress into something that actually looks military -- so it is possible in the next few years, a new service dress design rolls out. Nothing firm announced for that yet however, but something to consider.

2. OCPs: If you are OTS bound, you will want to make sure your uniforms are strictly compliant w/ the reporting instructions. I have no idea if OTS is still in ABUs v. OCPs and what the tape policy might be.

In terms of wearing it at your actual assignment - I just paid to have all of my tapes and rank sewn down and I'm a reservist that is only wearing it part of any given year. It looks dramatically better. I don't think you will lose any points or anything if you stick with the velcro but if you can afford it, I'd strongly consider it - you are wearing the uniform basically every day and you might as well look good doing it.

3. Mess dress: I would. I am not sure how much OTS/JASOC have changed but I wore it a few times while in the initial training stage. I've also worn it as a groomsman in weddings with military folks and in my own wedding. It is also common to wear them at wing level annual award ceremonies and dining ins and dining outs. You likely will not have the ability to rent mess dress at your assignment should you need it later, so you might as well bite the bullet.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:07 pm

Army Reserve selectee checking in. Medical submitted to the Command Surgeon like 7 weeks ago and I haven't heard anything since. (No medical issues, completed OPAT around the same time). I'm ready to submit the rest of my accession paperwork but haven't been told to do so by JARO. Has there been any movement for anyone else? Do the AD selectees go to the front of the line for CS review or something?

Rocky123

New
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:15 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky123 » Wed May 01, 2019 9:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:Army Reserve selectee checking in. Medical submitted to the Command Surgeon like 7 weeks ago and I haven't heard anything since. (No medical issues, completed OPAT around the same time). I'm ready to submit the rest of my accession paperwork but haven't been told to do so by JARO. Has there been any movement for anyone else? Do the AD selectees go to the front of the line for CS review or something?


Army AD Selectee here. I submitted by medicals about 3 weeks ago and haven't heard anything yet either (still early for me). Also, I haven't been told to send in any of the additional accessions paperwork yet. And I can't speak to whether AD selectees are at the front of the line, but it looks like you have met all the requirements on your end so you should have nothing to worry about. I'm not expecting to hear anything for at least 4-6 weeks from CS and potentially longer from JARO regarding that additional paperwork.



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.