Military Law

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LawDaug

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Re: Military Law

Postby LawDaug » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LawDaug wrote:
Legaleagle21 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just got the good news call from my SJA, so it looks like selection notifications for GLP and OYCP have begun. Good luck to everyone in the running!


Same. I got an acceptance GLP call today as well.


Just got the call from my SJA. I’m in as well!!


Fellow GLPers, I'd be interested to hear how it's been interacting with your local ROTC detachment and what your plans are for managing the ROTC course load next year. Also is anyone considering trying to cram in field training this summer?

For me, I'm working out how I can integrate 3 ROTC courses into my law school schedule without dramatically increasing my workload. I figure I can petition the law school to accept those ROTC course credit hours towards my JD graduation requirement.


I highly doubt any law school will count ROTC courses towards a graduate degree. They are bachelor courses at best. To be honest a plan should have been in place well before selection. As someone whose application was denied, I had in place, a schedule that was approved by my law school in coordination with my detachment, well before my application was even submitted.

I hope that you are able to figure out your situation, but this should have been considered well before you applied. I wish you success in your endeavor, but also i hope that you recognize your approval was in the place of many that were extremely prepared. In my case to such an extent that i had to plan my daycare schedule 2 years out. Please do not take your acceptance lightly and recognize that you have been given something that many tried to achieve and were denied. I would kill to be in your position. To see you hoping to petition a university to recognize your extracurricular for credits deminishes the entire program and jds in general.

Sorry if my response comes of as harsh, that is not my intention. Plainly speaking any Bachelor level course should not be considered for a jd. I believe the aba would strictly be against such a program given the content taught in ROTC courses as related to law.

P.s. yes i am dismayed by my denial, i had a lot riding on an acceptance. However, Your immaturity in recognizing the gravity of the program you applied to, surprises me greatly.

Cheers and best of luck


Thank you for the well wishes!

I assure you I am taking this opportunity with all due seriousness. It sounds like we are in very different stations in life, so my approach to the commitments required from the program is different from yours. I don't have to worry about baby sitters and other time-commitments that you do face.

I do not mean to come off as flippant or immature, I am simply in a position where I can afford to be flexible with my schedule. Trust me that the requisite planning has gone into this process. I will doing a whole lot of driving to a "cross-town" ROTC detachment to get my ROTC courses done, I knew going in to this that my selection would mean 3-4 hours in the car each week just commuting to and from ROTC, I'm fully on board with the GLP.

That said, I understand how my post looks ungrateful and immature from your point of view. Please know that I am incredibly honored by my selection, that I did my best and committed a lot of time to separating myself from what I knew to be a highly competitive field of candidates, and that I am well prepared for what lies ahead.

As far as the ROTC course credit goes, I am not totally in agreement that the ABA would not hear out a petition to accept ROTC credit. To serve as JAG officer is a unique and honorable field of practice, and I think the ABA could be persuaded accept ROTC work towards either total JD credit hours or toward the "externship" requirements. I think its unlikely, but there's no reason not to try and get a little creative.

Anyway, please believe me that your spot was not taken by some ungrateful bum who lucked his way into GLP with no planning on forethought. Thank you for your reply, thank you for giving me some perspective on my selection, I truly appreciate it.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Just curious, do they release any data as to how many glp oycp applicants were accepted? Across the board it seems like percent accepted is up through all branches and going off this board there were 5 accepted. That seems very low.

As someone who was denied, congrats on your acceptances you all deserve it. Its clear that many who didnt make the cut are sensitive about it. But I believe the board wouldnt make mistakes.

I would say go ahead and try the petition, but I would not expect much for credit. Even many internships working in law do not count for credit.

Take it as credit towards your career, your time as an officer is near. Your goal should be to absorb all the information you can from the fellow cadets. You are on a shortned track and everything you pickup will go very far come field training. From what I have heard the GLP OYCP candiates get the short end for preparation and are not on the same level as everyone else at the onset.

Also while the rest of us are stressing about building resumes and trying to network you can relax knowing you are set. Not to say you should be complacent or anything, but at least now you dont have to stress about the uncertainty moving forward.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:40 pm

I know last year they offered 16 slots for OYCP (12 accepted) out of 250+ applicants (I don't have the exact number of applicants, that was the closest number I could get from JAX).

As an OYCP cadet I can say that my school denied ROTC courses being accepted for law school, they stated ABA *would* revoke accreditation if they gave law school credit for undergrad courses. However, one of the other OYCP cadets has been able to get their school to give credit for. YMMV.

As someone who is married and has a kid on top of law school and ROTC, I have to say, it is a time commitment that you have to plan for. I had to have my wife redo her work schedule to account for daycare purposes, I have ROTC at 0545 Monday-Thursday, and have to be on campus until 1800 on Thursday. Our daycare is only open from 0630-1700. So you can imagine the logistical issues this caused. But knowing that I want to serve our country I have made it work; I had a plan in place before applying. I do understand that everyone is coming from different situations. This is my advice to all future applicants: 1) do not expect your law school to give you credit for ROTC, it likely won't happen; 2) have a solid plan approved by your Det and law school in place before you apply; and 3) if you are selected, be grateful, remember that your selection means someone else didn't get in.

This advice is not a shot at anyone in this thread. Just my general observations. The last part stems from several of the cadets in my OYCP cohort who are open about only doing the minimum service time just to have JAG on their resume, which irritates me (but thats another point).

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Re: Military Law

Postby Backload » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just curious, do they release any data as to how many glp oycp applicants were accepted? Across the board it seems like percent accepted is up through all branches and going off this board there were 5 accepted. That seems very low.

As someone who was denied, congrats on your acceptances you all deserve it. Its clear that many who didnt make the cut are sensitive about it. But I believe the board wouldnt make mistakes.

I would say go ahead and try the petition, but I would not expect much for credit. Even many internships working in law do not count for credit.

Take it as credit towards your career, your time as an officer is near. Your goal should be to absorb all the information you can from the fellow cadets. You are on a shortned track and everything you pickup will go very far come field training. From what I have heard the GLP OYCP candiates get the short end for preparation and are not on the same level as everyone else at the onset.

Also while the rest of us are stressing about building resumes and trying to network you can relax knowing you are set. Not to say you should be complacent or anything, but at least now you dont have to stress about the uncertainty moving forward.

Backload

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Re: Military Law

Postby Backload » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just curious, do they release any data as to how many glp oycp applicants were accepted? Across the board it seems like percent accepted is up through all branches and going off this board there were 5 accepted. That seems very low.

As someone who was denied, congrats on your acceptances you all deserve it. Its clear that many who didnt make the cut are sensitive about it. But I believe the board wouldnt make mistakes.

I would say go ahead and try the petition, but I would not expect much for credit. Even many internships working in law do not count for credit.

Take it as credit towards your career, your time as an officer is near. Your goal should be to absorb all the information you can from the fellow cadets. You are on a shortned track and everything you pickup will go very far come field training. From what I have heard the GLP OYCP candiates get the short end for preparation and are not on the same level as everyone else at the onset.

Also while the rest of us are stressing about building resumes and trying to network you can relax knowing you are set. Not to say you should be complacent or anything, but at least now you dont have to stress about the uncertainty moving forward.


They post the numbers on a site that can be accessed by JAGs only. The numbers weren’t 5 but were probably around 15 or so. I could look up the exact numbers if you want, but they usually do not post application numbers. You could always ask JAX.

For the credits, I did not do ROTC but I have never heard anyone getting credits. Just like the other poster, you should go in not expecting it.

LawDaug

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Re: Military Law

Postby LawDaug » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:15 pm

To the 3-4 Anonymous posters above, thank you for your input. It gives me a slimmer of hope to hear that an OYCP select in the past has reportedly been able to make some progress in getting credit for the ROTC work. Perhaps I'm not tilting at windmills entirely.

I have not planned on getting any credit accepted and it sure as heck is long shot, but I'd be foolish not to at least try a petition. If I do have any success with this ROTC credit crusade I will follow up here.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:16 pm

They took 17 GLP and 12 OYCP candidates this year. They didn't post the total number of applicants.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:22 pm

When should we be hearing from the Navy DA board? Mid-April?

ubersaurusrex

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Re: Military Law

Postby ubersaurusrex » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:When should we be hearing from the Navy DA board? Mid-April?

Website says within 10 weeks of the application deadline.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
lharle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:MEPS question - I was selected for AF JAG during the November 2018 DAP Board and completed the initial medical interview via phone call where we walked through the medical questionnaire/my medical history and I submitted the completed medical documents in early January. I'm lucky in that all my medical history involves is wisdom teeth removal and a slight prescription for glasses (thanks law school) so there was no need for additional medical documentation beyond the required forms but its coming up to almost two month since I have submitted my information and no news about a time to go to MEPS for the physical. Is this normal? Or as normal as it gets? I reached out to the person I spoke to when completing the forms in early February and they said they were waiting to hear back from the MEPS station I would be going to for the physical but I have heard nothing since then. Is it inappropriate to reach out again?

I know that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that I'm not aware of but I just kinda figured with my limited medical history, getting through the MEPS process would be easier/quicker? I also have no military background so I could be totally off about all of this.

Anyways, for those of you that have gone through the MEPS process for AF JAG, can you provide some insight to the timeline/process? Thanks!



I was an October 2017 DAP, went to MEPS September 2018, no significant medical history either. It’s just the way it goes!



Thanks for your insight but I just got a date to go to MEPS haha fingers crossed everything goes smoothly!


Did they email you or call you with your date to go to MEPS?


Sorry about the delayed response but it was a phone call and my MEPS date was less than a week later so be prepared to make travels plans pretty quickly!

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Re: Military Law

Postby MacSauce » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:42 pm

LawDaug wrote:To the 3-4 Anonymous posters above, thank you for your input. It gives me a slimmer of hope to hear that an OYCP select in the past has reportedly been able to make some progress in getting credit for the ROTC work. Perhaps I'm not tilting at windmills entirely.

I have not planned on getting any credit accepted and it sure as heck is long shot, but I'd be foolish not to at least try a petition. If I do have any success with this ROTC credit crusade I will follow up here.


PM’d you my experience. Good luck. Some of us have had it happen so give it a shot.

I included this is my PM but for the board as well, you’ll want to devote just as much energy to getting all your medical paperwork in order. Getting contracted (sworn into the reserve training component) should be a top priority and doesn’t happen til you’ve finished medical and taken an official PT test. Get to know the NCOs at your Det and be respectful in all your interactions with them. The ROTC JAG paperwork and process is a whole different ballgame than they are used to so just roll with it.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:14 pm

I know in the AF, JAs are technically "line officers", but a special type: LAF-J. With that said, I've been looking at some educational development opportunities (specifically CSAF Prestigious Ph.D. Program). Programs like this say they're open to "line officers". As a JA, would I qualify?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:44 pm

Anyone been selected as a NAVY JAG alternate have information on how long it takes to find out if you have been moved up and how that is done (ranking system??)?

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone been selected as a NAVY JAG alternate have information on how long it takes to find out if you have been moved up and how that is done (ranking system??)?


I have heard in the past that chances are higher to come off the alt list if you get thru the medical process faster. Not sure if that is still the case. I've not heard of alternates being ranked.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:25 pm

I got a call today saying I was selected as an alternate for the most recent Navy JAG Direct Appointment board. Let the waiting continue. I'm going to need medical waivers, so I'm not optimistic.

ubersaurusrex

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Re: Military Law

Postby ubersaurusrex » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:45 pm

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone been selected as a NAVY JAG alternate have information on how long it takes to find out if you have been moved up and how that is done (ranking system??)?


I have heard in the past that chances are higher to come off the alt list if you get thru the medical process faster. Not sure if that is still the case. I've not heard of alternates being ranked.


So is it literally whoever gets cleared first goes to the top of the list? Also, any sense as to how many alternates end up getting selected?

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I know in the AF, JAs are technically "line officers", but a special type: LAF-J. With that said, I've been looking at some educational development opportunities (specifically CSAF Prestigious Ph.D. Program). Programs like this say they're open to "line officers". As a JA, would I qualify?

This is a good question I don't know the answer to. The PhD options aren't listed on JAX's site for education options, so that means probably not. I checked the eligibility on myPers, and there might be a couple of hurdles. You have to:

1) Be released from your career field. Not sure if they would do that.
2) Have a master's that meets school requirements. Not sure a JD would count for that purpose, so you'd probably need a separate master's.

Also, myPers uses the "LAF" language, and, like you said, we're "LAF-J." It's hard to tell if they're being that artful in their usage of LAF.

One would probably need to just call JAX. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

A lot of the other options like the White House fellowships and SAAS are available, though.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Rocky123 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For Amry, no one can log into dodmets/dodmerb yet right?


I can't either


I'm RC. Logged in, filled out the form, and set up appointments yesterday.

I got an e-mail from Concorde, Inc. w/ instructions on how to log into DODMETS. Dunno if that makes a difference.


I've seen a lot of mentions of MEPS. Is that the same as the DODMERB processing? I completed that and did not know what to expect next as far as the medical process for Army JAG.

So I've seen the 70 year old contract doctor, and had the eye and hearing tests done. Is MEPS next? Is that the medical processing at boot camp?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Conster31 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Rocky123 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For Amry, no one can log into dodmets/dodmerb yet right?


I can't either


I'm RC. Logged in, filled out the form, and set up appointments yesterday.

I got an e-mail from Concorde, Inc. w/ instructions on how to log into DODMETS. Dunno if that makes a difference.


I've seen a lot of mentions of MEPS. Is that the same as the DODMERB processing? I completed that and did not know what to expect next as far as the medical process for Army JAG.

So I've seen the 70 year old contract doctor, and had the eye and hearing tests done. Is MEPS next? Is that the medical processing at boot camp?



No. You will not do MEPS for Army JAG. All the other services use it though

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:01 pm

Are any of the other OYCPs/GLPs that are going to field training this summer getting any guidance on preparing for field training? I'm going this summer and my detachment is going to provide me with a field training manual but, other than that, I won't have any preparation on their end for field training. Is the extra week before field training (in combination with having the manual) designed to get us sufficiently up to speed for field training, or are other people's detachments more involved in the preparation process? I am really focusing on getting in shape right now for field training, but based on what I've read, I'm worried that showing up to the extended field training without any preparation for drilling, etc. is not right.

I guess more succinctly, is this week designed to take us from close to zero preparation (other than the manual and being physically prepared, of course) to being at least minimally prepared for field training? Thanks in advance for any advice or experiences others can share. With the summer quickly approaching, I just want to make sure I'm doing what I need to do in order to be successful at field training.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:Are any of the other OYCPs/GLPs that are going to field training this summer getting any guidance on preparing for field training? I'm going this summer and my detachment is going to provide me with a field training manual but, other than that, I won't have any preparation on their end for field training. Is the extra week before field training (in combination with having the manual) designed to get us sufficiently up to speed for field training, or are other people's detachments more involved in the preparation process? I am really focusing on getting in shape right now for field training, but based on what I've read, I'm worried that showing up to the extended field training without any preparation for drilling, etc. is not right.

I guess more succinctly, is this week designed to take us from close to zero preparation (other than the manual and being physically prepared, of course) to being at least minimally prepared for field training? Thanks in advance for any advice or experiences others can share. With the summer quickly approaching, I just want to make sure I'm doing what I need to do in order to be successful at field training.


I am a current OYCP Cadet. I will be commissioning in May. So not the cohort that you are looking for. However, I can provide some insights based on what we experienced last year.

Of the 12 of us that accepted the selection, 8 received at least a minimal amount of training at their Det prior to attending FTAP (the week of training prior to Field Training). The amount of training these 8 individuals received greatly varied. One individual spent the whole semester working with her Det, even prior to being accepted. Whereas two others only did things with their Det for two weeks prior. Four of the individuals who went did not have any training with their Det prior to going. So the amount of training varies.

If you go talk to your Det, and offer to get a physical at your own expense, they may be willing to allow you to come to PT and LLAB. You will want to ask Cadre if it would be possible to have a POC work with you during LLAB to learn the basics of marching and uniform wear. Since you're not currently contracted, you are not required to do anything, but if you ask them, they may be willing to help you out.

In terms of FTAP getting you ready: it will. You will not be an expert. And you likely will not be a top performer. But it will give you the bare minimum necessary to pass FT. All 12 of us who went down last summer passed. One individual was in the top third of their flight, 6-8 (can't recall the exact number) were in the middle third, the rest were in the bottom third. But here's the thing: it doesn't matter. Unlike our undergrad peers, we're not competing for anything. We already have our job assigned. We will be JAGs. All we have to do is pass. Undergrads are competing for their jobs. They have no guarantees.

As an added note: FTAP changes every year. Last year we had marching, uniform wear, and dorm maintenance lessons in addition to the required academics. The year prior, they only received the academic lessons. I believe that the way they did it with us is what they will do with you this summer. However, that is not a guarantee. I highly advise talking to the Cadre at your Det and seeing if they will allow you to come to LLAB and PT. Ask specifically to have a POC work with you on DNC during LLAB. Just my two cents.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:52 pm

Does anyone know whether you can be moved off the alternate list for the Navy before completing medicals and background/security checks? Life in alternate-land sure is frustrating.

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know whether you can be moved off the alternate list for the Navy before completing medicals and background/security checks? Life in alternate-land sure is frustrating.


I've heard that people will ONLY come off the alt list if a) they have completed everything [except raising their right hand], AND b) there are actually primary spots available.

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Re: Military Law

Postby sierralawrence » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:59 pm

This summer I have an internship at Schofield Barracks. I am looking for housing in near the area. Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:06 pm

Just a fun update on the medical appeals process: I was selected as an Army RC JAG in the 2017 bracket. Did all my medicals on time. The eye doctor diagnosed me with Strabismus Estropia at that point and I received my initial denial in the July 2018 area. I then immediately requested the eye doctor (who was prior-service[Navy]) to write me a letter basically saying that while i had the condition I could serve. She was kind enough to do so by the end of August 2018. I submitted all my documentation and what-not the first week of September 2018.

Apparently what was supposed to take a few weeks to a month to make a reconsideration on, has extended into now the end of March 2019 [at time of writing] (due to: 1) a new CS coming into the position when I submitted my documents, and 2) since the process had taken so long for them it now went into a new selection class and all requests for reconsideration have been put to the back of the line over the new selectees medicals). So I am still over here waiting to hear on what will be the determination on my reconsideration almost a year and a half after initial selection.

I say this all in part to vent about how frustrating things can be but also to give insight on how drawn out and tedious the medical process can be (even for something relatively minor) to give you realistic timelines if you happen to be given an initial denial. This may just be the rather unique intersection of factors outside my control that caused it or it may just be how it is. Hope it helps.



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