Military Law

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

I am a current 3L (been browsing this thread for years, but have never needed to ask a new question.) I was selected by the Air Force for Direct Appointment in the November board as of last week, and found out today that I was Professionally Recommended for Navy as well. I never expected to have two offers, and I am wondering if anyone has any advice/opinions (anecdotal or otherwise) on which branch may be the better choice. Thank you all in advance for any help!

Note: I can easily pass the physical fitness requirements for both branches, so that is not an issue.


I’m in the exact same position and also curious to hear some thoughts on this. I interned with the Air Force my 1L summer and was convinced it was my number 1. After getting the packet yesterday confirming that 1) COT is now TFOT, and 2) the earliest class we can get into is January 2020, getting to leave for ODS 10 days after taking the bar with the Navy sounds like a pretty nice option, rather than waiting around for 5 months. That and the awesome base locations are starting to sway me.

Additionally, I’m all about litigation and while the Air Force definitely has a leg up in terms of diversity of practice areas, the FTJA program with the Navy and the possibility of the litigation track is something I think may be a great fit for me personally.

Also waiting on Army Active and Reserve. I’ve got an offer from a top 15 major city’s DA office too and am loosely considering that plus Reserve right out the gate, but still think I’d prefer active duty. Curious what others think.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:41 am

Another day with no AF news. I want to get off this wild ride!

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

I am a current 3L (been browsing this thread for years, but have never needed to ask a new question.) I was selected by the Air Force for Direct Appointment in the November board as of last week, and found out today that I was Professionally Recommended for Navy as well. I never expected to have two offers, and I am wondering if anyone has any advice/opinions (anecdotal or otherwise) on which branch may be the better choice. Thank you all in advance for any help!

Note: I can easily pass the physical fitness requirements for both branches, so that is not an issue.


I’m in the exact same position and also curious to hear some thoughts on this. I interned with the Air Force my 1L summer and was convinced it was my number 1. After getting the packet yesterday confirming that 1) COT is now TFOT, and 2) the earliest class we can get into is January 2020, getting to leave for ODS 10 days after taking the bar with the Navy sounds like a pretty nice option, rather than waiting around for 5 months. That and the awesome base locations are starting to sway me.

Additionally, I’m all about litigation and while the Air Force definitely has a leg up in terms of diversity of practice areas, the FTJA program with the Navy and the possibility of the litigation track is something I think may be a great fit for me personally.

Also waiting on Army Active and Reserve. I’ve got an offer from a top 15 major city’s DA office too and am loosely considering that plus Reserve right out the gate, but still think I’d prefer active duty. Curious what others think.


First off, congrats on multiple offers--that's quite impressive!

Second, I knew a few PRORECs that moved through the commissioning process with multiple branches last year. With the crapshoot that is medical these days, it's not a terrible idea to keep the options open--each branch is different w.r.t. medical qualifications. I get the impression that as long as you are actually working towards a commission with the Navy (even in conjunction with other branches), the Navy's accessions office doesn't really care. You'll of course have to make a decision eventually, and that decision may simply be based off which branch you are able to commission with first.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:55 pm

whiterabbit88 wrote:I got notified last Tuesday (11/20) from the AF SJA that interviewed me that I was selected. 7th or 8th time applying (I stopped keeping track). I got an e-mail yesterday confirming and explaining the next steps.


Congrats! You mentioned that you applied over the course of 8 times. What do you think was different about your application that put you over the top. Do you have recommendations for strengthening an application?

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Dawg57

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Re: Military Law

Postby Dawg57 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Calls rolling out for the Navy Fall SP Board. Selected this morning


Congrats! Mind sharing your background or any stats for those of us who just got dinged and are looking to improve their application?

Thanks!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:44 pm

AF email is out. Good luck to all others waiting for their response.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

I am a current 3L (been browsing this thread for years, but have never needed to ask a new question.) I was selected by the Air Force for Direct Appointment in the November board as of last week, and found out today that I was Professionally Recommended for Navy as well. I never expected to have two offers, and I am wondering if anyone has any advice/opinions (anecdotal or otherwise) on which branch may be the better choice. Thank you all in advance for any help!

Note: I can easily pass the physical fitness requirements for both branches, so that is not an issue.


Congrats on the selections!

I'm happy to weigh in on the AF experience based on my time in. I can't, however, give you any sort of pro/con or compare/contrast in terms of the Navy as I don't have any experience on that side. Feel free to PM me if you have AF specific questions.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
1) COT is now TFOT


I wouldn't let this influence your decision. It's still 5 weeks and it is still the Air Force. It is not like it went from Salute School to Marine OCS.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:43 pm

Does anyone have any insight into MEPS and the tape testing for the Navy? Pretty sure that I am going to be a couple pounds over the weight, but am fine with the tape test measurements (per my own measurements). Any insight into that for anyone that has gone through that specifically?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Legaleagle21 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:50 am

For AF GLP, does anyone know whether the selection board members look at the normal AF height/weight standards or the ROTC standards when assessing applicants? I’m wondering because there’s an 18 pound difference for my height and I’m currently just under the normal standard.

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:42 pm

Legaleagle21 wrote:For AF GLP, does anyone know whether the selection board members look at the normal AF height/weight standards or the ROTC standards when assessing applicants? I’m wondering because there’s an 18 pound difference for my height and I’m currently just under the normal standard.

For the actual JAG application, we look at the AF height/weight standards. I don't know if the ROTC detachment will look at your height weight when you do your interview with them. Unless someone else here knows, I would contact JAX or possibly the ROTC det you'll be interviewing with.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:07 pm

Legaleagle21 wrote:For AF GLP, does anyone know whether the selection board members look at the normal AF height/weight standards or the ROTC standards when assessing applicants? I’m wondering because there’s an 18 pound difference for my height and I’m currently just under the normal standard.


I was over the ROTC standards when I applied last year. But was within the AF standards. I was selected for OYCP. However, I had to drop down to the ROTC standards before going to FT. Best bet, get down to the ROTC standards (granted, I know there's about a 20lb difference between the two).

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Re: Military Law

Postby girlfromtheprairie » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

I am a current 3L (been browsing this thread for years, but have never needed to ask a new question.) I was selected by the Air Force for Direct Appointment in the November board as of last week, and found out today that I was Professionally Recommended for Navy as well. I never expected to have two offers, and I am wondering if anyone has any advice/opinions (anecdotal or otherwise) on which branch may be the better choice. Thank you all in advance for any help!

Note: I can easily pass the physical fitness requirements for both branches, so that is not an issue.


I’m in the exact same position and also curious to hear some thoughts on this. I interned with the Air Force my 1L summer and was convinced it was my number 1. After getting the packet yesterday confirming that 1) COT is now TFOT, and 2) the earliest class we can get into is January 2020, getting to leave for ODS 10 days after taking the bar with the Navy sounds like a pretty nice option, rather than waiting around for 5 months. That and the awesome base locations are starting to sway me.

Additionally, I’m all about litigation and while the Air Force definitely has a leg up in terms of diversity of practice areas, the FTJA program with the Navy and the possibility of the litigation track is something I think may be a great fit for me personally.

Also waiting on Army Active and Reserve. I’ve got an offer from a top 15 major city’s DA office too and am loosely considering that plus Reserve right out the gate, but still think I’d prefer active duty. Curious what others think.


If you think you want to go active duty, now is the time to do it. The DAs office will always be there. I ultimately went with Air Force over Navy for the diversity of practice and the life balance. If you're choosing a branch based on base locations, you're doing it wrong. Really think about what you want in a career or how you hope your JAG experience will set you up in your civilian career. Then research the kinds of jobs you're able to have in each branch. Do they offer LLMs? What kinds of courts martial do they see more often? Etc etc.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:12 pm

girlfromtheprairie wrote: If you're choosing a branch based on base locations, you're doing it wrong.


Prairie gave a very good list of things to consider when making a decision on differing branches. I bet she'll agree with me that location should be considered, just not as the sole reason for deciding a branch.

When I chose Navy, location was a factor for my decision, but I didn't realize how much of a positive impact it would have on my experience. Specifically, I joined during DADT's repeal, was my command's first openly gay officer, and was married just following DOMA's repeal. San Diego was a godsend for LGBT service members. For example, before same-sex spouses were allowed base access cards, San Diego's fleet and family services held meetings at an LGBT center in the gaybrohood to provide advice and services to military partners. In contrast, I remember chatting with some officers stationed in Norfolk who could not believe how many sailors were openly gay in SD and spoke about the vastly different culture at their commands.

Now, that last sentence brings back the original point--don't chose a service based on location alone. You could hope for California and end up in the rural south in the Navy or in Los Angeles in the Air Force. But I did just want to share my experience (albeit in ~2012-2015, under President Obama), because location ended up having a bigger impact on my service than expected.

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Re: Military Law

Postby wrangler9 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:43 pm

Anyone in 208th JAOBC hear anything about assignments?

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Re: Military Law

Postby csjdoc » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:21 pm

wrangler9 wrote:Anyone in 208th JAOBC hear anything about assignments?


I haven’t heard anything yet except that the assignment officer will call you with your assignment. Hopefully we will hear something soon.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:39 pm

OYCP Selectee here. I just wanted to post a few thoughts as I am completing my first semester of ROTC since there isn't too much about the process after being selected. No one has asked for this information, but I know when I was looking for it last year around this time I couldn't find it. So I figured I'd share.

After being selected for OYCP you should get started training with your Det immediately! I contacted them as soon as I got off the phone with the SJA finding out that I was selected. It took about 2 months for me to get a physical due to my schedule (I wasn't allowed to participate with my Det at all until this was completed). I was only able to attend 2 L. Labs and 1 PT session. This is not sufficient. If you're applying for OYCP I would recommend reaching out to your Det now to see if you can get the sports physical done over Christmas break so you can participate more if you're selected. Make it clear that you're only talking about the sports physical and not the DODMERB (you can't do DODMERB until you're officially selected).

With that said, participation with your Det prior to going to Field Training (FT) in the summer is not required, however, I HIGHLY recommend it. You will be going to FT in Maxwell for about 3 weeks (5 days of FTAP and 13 days of FT). This is unpaid. No matter what you have heard or read online, FT is UNPAID and does not qualify for military leave from government jobs (a few of us tried). FTAP is suppose to teach you the academic curriculum that is covered in the first 2 years of ROTC. Our class also taught us the basics of marching and had us PT. But this is not the norm. In prior years, it was strictly academic with very little marching. Upon being dropped off at FT, it will be expected that you know everything that your peers know. EVERYTHING including the FTM that you will be given and have to memorize word for word, cover to cover. No one will care that you're a lawyer, or a one year cadet with no training. This is why getting in with your Det early is necessary. You will be thrust into it and will be expected to succeed. However, just remember it is all a game. You don't need to be top-third, you don't need to be DG, you just need to graduate. Unlike other cadets, our job is already secured, we're not competing for anything. Just give it your best effort, don't give up, don't have a bad attitude and you will likely pass. (This past summer there were 16 of us selected for OYCP, 12 accepted, all 12 passed FT [most of us were middle third, a few were top third, a few were bottom third]).

After graduating from FT you will go back to your Det as an AS400 (this is the group of individuals who will be commissioning in May). You will get paid $500/month ($250 on the 1st and $250 on the 15th). You will be assigned a random "job" within the Det. Some Dets will ask you for your input as to what you want, others will not. This "job" is for you to develop your leadership skills. Take it seriously, although you've already secured a JAG slot, the Det can still "Det drop" you (ie kick you out). These jobs will vary from training 100 and 200 to running the Det's social media to being in charge of cleaning operations. Just do your best, assign tasks to those under you, and have a positive attitude. All in all, your Det "job" will take 2-5 hours a week depending on what job you're assigned.

Additionally, in the fall and spring semesters of your 3L year, you will be enrolled in 7 ROTC credits a semester. These credits will include AS300 (3 credits) AS400 (3 credits) and L Lab (1 credit). But ROTC will take up more time than that. L Lab is 2 hours a week (not 1 like the 1 credit would imply) and you will be at 2 PT sessions a week (these vary by Det but are between an hour and an hour and a half). The AS classes are not difficult, but they add extra work. You don't have to prep for them like you do a law class, but you do have to read and have assignments to turn in. L Lab varies too much by Det as to what it entails, but basically this is a time for you to practice your leadership skills on underclassmen.

As a note, AS classes do NOT count for law school credit at most schools. The ABA does not allow undergrad courses to count for law school. There was 1 of the 12 of us that was able to get their school to count it for credit, but the rest of us were told the same thing about the ABA. As such, you will be taking 14-16 law school credits plus 7 ROTC credits. This is a lot of work.

As far as PT goes, you will be expected to pass the PT test during FT. If you can not pass it there, you will get one attempt in the fall semester. If you fail then, you will be kicked out. Make sure you know what the standards are and are able to pass. Start training now, don't wait until you find out that you were selected.

If you have any questions feel free to ask. I check this forum about 3 times a week or so just to read this thread. I hope someone finds this post helpful. And as a close, just for reference my stats when selected were as follows:

URM
3.2x Law School GPA
161 LSAT
T20
Prior Court experience

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Re: Military Law

Postby JAOBC208 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:01 pm

csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Anyone in 208th JAOBC hear anything about assignments?


I haven’t heard anything yet except that the assignment officer will call you with your assignment. Hopefully we will hear something soon.


I’m anxiously wondering the same thing! Is the assignment officer at JARO or will we be contacted by the selected installation?

csjdoc

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Re: Military Law

Postby csjdoc » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:16 pm

JAOBC208 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Anyone in 208th JAOBC hear anything about assignments?


I haven’t heard anything yet except that the assignment officer will call you with your assignment. Hopefully we will hear something soon.


I’m anxiously wondering the same thing! Is the assignment officer at JARO or will we be contacted by the selected installation?


JARO will contact us. In the past LTC Blackwell made the phone calls but I don’t know if it will be someone else this year.

JAOBC208

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Re: Military Law

Postby JAOBC208 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:19 pm

csjdoc wrote:
JAOBC208 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Anyone in 208th JAOBC hear anything about assignments?


I haven’t heard anything yet except that the assignment officer will call you with your assignment. Hopefully we will hear something soon.


I’m anxiously wondering the same thing! Is the assignment officer at JARO or will we be contacted by the selected installation?


JARO will contact us. In the past LTC Blackwell made the phone calls but I don’t know if it will be someone else this year.



I spoke too soon. Calls are starting to go out. Best of luck to everyone and see you in Jan! :D
Last edited by JAOBC208 on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wrangler9

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Re: Military Law

Postby wrangler9 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:32 pm

JAOBC208 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
JAOBC208 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Anyone in 208th JAOBC hear anything about assignments?


I haven’t heard anything yet except that the assignment officer will call you with your assignment. Hopefully we will hear something soon.


I’m anxiously wondering the same thing! Is the assignment officer at JARO or will we be contacted by the selected installation?


JARO will contact us. In the past LTC Blackwell made the phone calls but I don’t know if it will be someone else this year.



I spoke to soon. Calls are starting to go out. Best of luck to everyone and see you in Jan! :D




How exciting! How long ago did you get the call??

Ajamae

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Re: Military Law

Postby Ajamae » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:05 pm

wrangler9 wrote:
JAOBC208 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
JAOBC208 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Anyone in 208th JAOBC hear anything about assignments?


I haven’t heard anything yet except that the assignment officer will call you with your assignment. Hopefully we will hear something soon.


I’m anxiously wondering the same thing! Is the assignment officer at JARO or will we be contacted by the selected installation?


JARO will contact us. In the past LTC Blackwell made the phone calls but I don’t know if it will be someone else this year.



I spoke to soon. Calls are starting to go out. Best of luck to everyone and see you in Jan! :D




How exciting! How long ago did you get the call??

Ajamae

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Re: Military Law

Postby Ajamae » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:07 pm

Ajamae wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:
JAOBC208 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
JAOBC208 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Anyone in 208th JAOBC hear anything about assignments?


I haven’t heard anything yet except that the assignment officer will call you with your assignment. Hopefully we will hear something soon.


I’m anxiously wondering the same thing! Is the assignment officer at JARO or will we be contacted by the selected installation?


JARO will contact us. In the past LTC Blackwell made the phone calls but I don’t know if it will be someone else this year.



I spoke to soon. Calls are starting to go out. Best of luck to everyone and see you in Jan! :D




How exciting! How long ago did you get the call??



Anyone get a call regarding assignment today.

wrangler9

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Re: Military Law

Postby wrangler9 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:15 pm

Anyone get a call regarding assignment today.[/quote]


I have not gotten a call, but from what I understand they started making the calls yesterday. I will let you know if I get a call today though!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
whiterabbit88 wrote:I got notified last Tuesday (11/20) from the AF SJA that interviewed me that I was selected. 7th or 8th time applying (I stopped keeping track). I got an e-mail yesterday confirming and explaining the next steps.


Congrats! You mentioned that you applied over the course of 8 times. What do you think was different about your application that put you over the top. Do you have recommendations for strengthening an application?


I re-interviewed each time (I carried an interview forward once) and asked for feedback each time. Each of the six SJAs I interviewed with had different feedback. Earlier interviews were big things (more courtroom experience, more leadership, etc.), and got to be smallerr each time I interviewed (have LoRs resigned with a more recent date, list this first, etc.).

I think this last time I just tried to point out in straight forward language in both my interview and my motivational statement that I’ve taken their feedback to become the “whole person” they want me to be (head of a regional legal department, lots of civil courtroom experience, law and non-law extracurriculars), and even with four and a half years of practice in some interesting areas of law, the desire to pursue JAG stayed with me.

I honestly think it was timing and my motivational statement that put me over the top this time. Not much else had changed on my application between this time and the last two times.



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