Military Law

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:AF SJA who conducts interviews here.

...

If there are any criminal, drug, mental health, credit, weight, etc. issues, what have you done to show that's not you anymore? If your interviewer likes you, they will try to explain these things away. Help them. If you got caught for underage drinking in college, maybe volunteer for some kind of designated driver program. Stuff like that. One thing specifically - do not be over your weight limit. That is likely an automatic no.

The more you can find out about what the job entails, the better. An easy example is the initial training we go through. Some students don't know that your first training is COT and JASOC. The applicant who asks specific questions about the training shows me they have put more thought into this. Maybe they ask a question based on a COT blog they read online. Or know what your PT test requirements are versus "I think running is involved." These are little things, but they separate the ones really ready apart from the 3L applying for the first time in April who has "always" wanted to do this.




So on the Army application submitted last month, I gave my honest weight of approx. 205lbs because I think it's not too reasonable at least at this stage in my life to assume I can operate under the expected weight for my height. My "standard" weight has been 210-15. With pushing myself this year in eating right I have dropped to 200-205. But I am 5'9" and even at my peak of fitness playing football in college, I was never under 200. I know I would easily pass the BMI standards right now. But figured there was no logic nor was it a good idea to lie. I considered explaining this in detail in my personal essay but wasn't sure it was the place to burn characters explaining this. My interviewer and my photo submitted can show that I am a fit and active person.

But this above ^^^ makes me concerned that I did not directly address it and just listed my weight as over my threshold. Any thoughts on this being a auto-ding as described above? specifically for the Army and/or Navy? (although I don't recall listing my weight on my Navy app)

wrangler9

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Re: Military Law

Postby wrangler9 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:22 pm

Heading to the January class for Army JAG. Got the email for the course reservations today! Starting to feel real finally! Anyone else get their reservations?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:AF SJA who conducts interviews here.

...

If there are any criminal, drug, mental health, credit, weight, etc. issues, what have you done to show that's not you anymore? If your interviewer likes you, they will try to explain these things away. Help them. If you got caught for underage drinking in college, maybe volunteer for some kind of designated driver program. Stuff like that. One thing specifically - do not be over your weight limit. That is likely an automatic no.

The more you can find out about what the job entails, the better. An easy example is the initial training we go through. Some students don't know that your first training is COT and JASOC. The applicant who asks specific questions about the training shows me they have put more thought into this. Maybe they ask a question based on a COT blog they read online. Or know what your PT test requirements are versus "I think running is involved." These are little things, but they separate the ones really ready apart from the 3L applying for the first time in April who has "always" wanted to do this.




So on the Army application submitted last month, I gave my honest weight of approx. 205lbs because I think it's not too reasonable at least at this stage in my life to assume I can operate under the expected weight for my height. My "standard" weight has been 210-15. With pushing myself this year in eating right I have dropped to 200-205. But I am 5'9" and even at my peak of fitness playing football in college, I was never under 200. I know I would easily pass the BMI standards right now. But figured there was no logic nor was it a good idea to lie. I considered explaining this in detail in my personal essay but wasn't sure it was the place to burn characters explaining this. My interviewer and my photo submitted can show that I am a fit and active person.

But this above ^^^ makes me concerned that I did not directly address it and just listed my weight as over my threshold. Any thoughts on this being a auto-ding as described above? specifically for the Army and/or Navy? (although I don't recall listing my weight on my Navy app)


So I believe you don't have to be exactly at the standard when you apply or are offered a position. However, once selected you have to meet the weight standards (weight or by body fat percentage) otherwise you won't get medically cleared and they can revoke their offer. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this??

I say this with the caveat that if you look obviously overweight then you would hopefully have stellar credentials, perform exceptionally well in the interview, and explain what you are doing to get into shape.

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Re: Military Law

Postby csjdoc » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:24 pm

wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the January class for Army JAG. Got the email for the course reservations today! Starting to feel real finally! Anyone else get their reservations?


I got the email today too. See you in January!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:14 pm

csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the January class for Army JAG. Got the email for the course reservations today! Starting to feel real finally! Anyone else get their reservations?


I got the email today! See you in January!


I got mine today. See you two then!

Though I have to ask, are we supposed to check out any of the links? I lost a trial today, so I'm not quite firing on all cylinders right now.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the January class for Army JAG. Got the email for the course reservations today! Starting to feel real finally! Anyone else get their reservations?


I got the email today! See you in January!


I got mine today. See you two then!

Though I have to ask, are we supposed to check out any of the links? I lost a trial today, so I'm not quite firing on all cylinders right now.


Glad to start hearing from some fellow classmates. The email with ATTRS reservation is more of just a way to put you on notice that you are enrolled in a course. I’ve been in the Army for a little over 10 years now and I can say that I have only clicked on the links maybe a handful of times. I think your question specifically is whether you need to log onto the ATTRS website? If so, no you are not required to click on anything. However, you certainly can go on the site to browse around the course information if you are curious. It’s not a necessity though.

csjdoc

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Re: Military Law

Postby csjdoc » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the January class for Army JAG. Got the email for the course reservations today! Starting to feel real finally! Anyone else get their reservations?


I got the email today! See you in January!


I got mine today. See you two then!

Though I have to ask, are we supposed to check out any of the links? I lost a trial today, so I'm not quite firing on all cylinders right now.


I don’t think you missed much. I tried clicking on the links and none of them worked.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:23 pm

Anyone hear back from AF on the October board?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky123 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone hear back from AF on the October board?



Nope! Judging from the timing from the September board earlier this year, I am not expecting to hear anything for another 10 days or so. Also, Thanksgiving might delay things--not sure.

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Re: Military Law

Postby wrangler9 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:45 pm

Heading to the Army January class. Anyone have a general idea of how initial assignments work? I imagine we will be getting slotted pretty soon and was just curious what the chances are that the assignment location will change when we are in school? Thanks

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:06 am

wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the Army January class. Anyone have a general idea of how initial assignments work? I imagine we will be getting slotted pretty soon and was just curious what the chances are that the assignment location will change when we are in school? Thanks


Did you get a list of locations?

wrangler9

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Re: Military Law

Postby wrangler9 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the Army January class. Anyone have a general idea of how initial assignments work? I imagine we will be getting slotted pretty soon and was just curious what the chances are that the assignment location will change when we are in school? Thanks


Did you get a list of locations?



No I haven’t. Has anyone else?

csjdoc

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Re: Military Law

Postby csjdoc » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:13 am

wrangler9 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the Army January class. Anyone have a general idea of how initial assignments work? I imagine we will be getting slotted pretty soon and was just curious what the chances are that the assignment location will change when we are in school? Thanks


Did you get a list of locations?



No I haven’t. Has anyone else?


I haven’t received a list of locations either.

wrangler9

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Re: Military Law

Postby wrangler9 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:28 pm

csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the Army January class. Anyone have a general idea of how initial assignments work? I imagine we will be getting slotted pretty soon and was just curious what the chances are that the assignment location will change when we are in school? Thanks


Did you get a list of locations?



No I haven’t. Has anyone else?


I haven’t received a list of locations either.




Got the list of locations this afternoon!

csjdoc

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Re: Military Law

Postby csjdoc » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:38 pm

wrangler9 wrote:
csjdoc wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
wrangler9 wrote:Heading to the Army January class. Anyone have a general idea of how initial assignments work? I imagine we will be getting slotted pretty soon and was just curious what the chances are that the assignment location will change when we are in school? Thanks


Did you get a list of locations?



No I haven’t. Has anyone else?


I haven’t received a list of locations either.




Got the list of locations this afternoon!


Same here!

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:52 pm

If anyone has/receives any info on the AF October selection results, please keep us posted!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:44 pm

Air Force Officer Training School instructor here. Starting in January, COT and TFOT will combine. On paper, COT will still be a separate entity, but their students will be in the same flights as TFOT students. Starting with Class 20-01, the plan is for COT to no longer exist even on paper, and the new classes will just be called OTS 20-01, 20-02, etc. I am interested to see how this is going to play out, as currently COT students will now be held to the same standard as TFOT students.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Air Force Officer Training School instructor here. Starting in January, COT and TFOT will combine. On paper, COT will still be a separate entity, but their students will be in the same flights as TFOT students. Starting with Class 20-01, the plan is for COT to no longer exist even on paper, and the new classes will just be called OTS 20-01, 20-02, etc. I am interested to see how this is going to play out, as currently COT students will now be held to the same standard as TFOT students.


That is incredible to hear - thanks for posting. I cannot wait to see how this plays out. I think it is the right move and will produce JAGs that are more literate in respect to the officership side of things. Given how selective the DAP boards are, combined with the general Type A mentality of most JAGs out there, I would be surprised if there are any real issues with JAGs in a more rigorous training environment.

In that JAGs are direct commissioned, it will be interesting to see how the rank issue plays out in mixed Flights. JAGs wearing a 1st Lt bar and everyone else with the trainee rank?

Is some sort of separate training going to exist for Medical and Chaplains? Based on my time at COT, I would envision far greater issues with those career fields getting through a BOT type experience.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:46 pm

Can you explain the current differences between the two trainings?

If both trainings are for officers, I don’t see why they are separate programs in the first place?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:19 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Air Force Officer Training School instructor here. Starting in January, COT and TFOT will combine. On paper, COT will still be a separate entity, but their students will be in the same flights as TFOT students. Starting with Class 20-01, the plan is for COT to no longer exist even on paper, and the new classes will just be called OTS 20-01, 20-02, etc. I am interested to see how this is going to play out, as currently COT students will now be held to the same standard as TFOT students.


That is incredible to hear - thanks for posting. I cannot wait to see how this plays out. I think it is the right move and will produce JAGs that are more literate in respect to the officership side of things. Given how selective the DAP boards are, combined with the general Type A mentality of most JAGs out there, I would be surprised if there are any real issues with JAGs in a more rigorous training environment.

In that JAGs are direct commissioned, it will be interesting to see how the rank issue plays out in mixed Flights. JAGs wearing a 1st Lt bar and everyone else with the trainee rank?

Is some sort of separate training going to exist for Medical and Chaplains? Based on my time at COT, I would envision far greater issues with those career fields getting through a BOT type experience.


I have heard two proposals regarding the rank issues. The first, and I think the most likely, is that commissioned officers will be instructed to turn up with no rank on. They will all be called trainees as opposed to cadets. The other option, is that the commissioned officers will put cadet rank over their actual rank, which I think looks ridiculous. The COT students will still graduate at the 5 week mark and the TFOT students will stay on for the full 8 weeks. The plan is to transition everyone over to the 8 week curriculum starting with OTS 20-01.

Medical and Chaplains will be going through the new program as well. It was actually the Air Force Surgeon General who put the wheels in motion for eliminating COT.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can you explain the current differences between the two trainings?

If both trainings are for officers, I don’t see why they are separate programs in the first place?


Since I came in a decade ago and well before then, there has been Commissioned Officer Training (COT) and Basic Officer Training (BOT).

COT was a shorter and typically easier training program limited to direct commission professionals: JAGs, Medical, and Chaplains. I'm sure our Anon poster could add some interesting insight on the split but I've typically heard the reasons be partly economic (get the professional officers into the field, doing what they were hired to do, faster), partly as a carrot (we need doctors and nurses and they may not put up with the ass pain that is a training environment).

Direct commission officers are unique in that they enter training with their rank and status as an officer - normal folks attending OTS earn their 2d Lt bar upon graduation. That distinction probably helped justify the split as well.

Over the years I have heard reports that COT has been trending to being more rigorous in the BOT style. It was tedious when I went through but not like a program where people would wash out. Way back in the day, it was very a much a "salute school" and far from rigorous.

As I noted, I think having everyone together is a good thing though I am sure there is going to be still some level of a "us versus them" given the rank issue and the early graduation.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can you explain the current differences between the two trainings?

If both trainings are for officers, I don’t see why they are separate programs in the first place?


I think the biggest difference is the level of intensity of the training. While not nearly as bad as before, there is a perception that COT students are coddled compared to TFOT students which causes a non-insignificant amount of COT grads to view themselves as doctors, chaplains, lawyers, nurses, etc. before Air Force officers. Currently, MTI's have little interaction with COT students compared to TFOT students. Now, COT students will get a more hands on approach from both MTI's as well as their Flt/CC's.

I also think the discussions in flight rooms will be better with the combination. A given TFOT class is made up of approximately 60-70% of prior-enlisted students. I think COT students will gain valuable insight into the operational Air Force from these cadets which will also help them understand how they support the wider Air Force mission. Likewise, I think TFOT students will be forced to think on a deeper level as people with MD's, JD's, etc. tend to be critical, independent thinkers.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Air Force Officer Training School instructor here. Starting in January, COT and TFOT will combine. On paper, COT will still be a separate entity, but their students will be in the same flights as TFOT students. Starting with Class 20-01, the plan is for COT to no longer exist even on paper, and the new classes will just be called OTS 20-01, 20-02, etc. I am interested to see how this is going to play out, as currently COT students will now be held to the same standard as TFOT students.


So my biggest worry (whether founded or completely asinine) has always been having to do the gas chamber exposure exercise. Then again, I've never actually been clear on who exactly goes through that training. (I'm fairly certain COT students don't do it (at present), but do TFOT students?) I can't remember where I heard about the exercise, but seeds of dread have been in me ever since. Do you think lawyers / chaplains / doctors will take part in that exposure training once the classes get combined? While I'm at it: any other major differences between the daily PT training or other physical exercises at TFOT vs. COT?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If anyone has/receives any info on the AF October selection results, please keep us posted!


Just wanted to let you know that I got a phone call from the SJA I interviewed with for the November 1st DAP Board earlier today telling me I was selected for AF JAG so results are coming out!

Best of luck to you if you applied!!

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:54 pm

Is there an announcement of the COT/TFOT changes anywhere?



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