Military Law

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:27 pm

By the way, Private Messages are now back (along with all my historical messages I thought were lost)!

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't being an attorney for the government even in the military mean that you have to be apolitical and it's to be expected? Even as a lawyer in general practice, you have to sort of be neutral and look at things from an entirely legal perspective. There are lot of internal things that you see at agencies (harassment, ethics issues etc.) as well that people don't agree with, but people stay and hopefully work towards changing things as reasonably possible.

Otherwise why not just work as an attorney for a Senator or Congressperson; or run for political office and you can really have some say in the law/policy. I'm not attacking you at all for your statement, by the way, and I hope it doesn't come off like that. Just intellectual curiosity. :)

Yes, you need to be able to put your politics aside to do your job at times. At other times, it is inevitable - and maybe desirable - that your politics impact what you do for the government. There are many jobs requiring discretion in what you do, so politics will impact your decisions there, but overall, especially in the military, when you're told to do something, you do that thing in your agency's best interest.

I would hope we all have a threshold for what we can justify to ourselves under the umbrella of "just doing my job." A lot of morally reprehensible things can still be lawful orders. Beyond that, there are some things you didn't sign up to do when you chose to become a government/military attorney. If what you're asked to do changes drastically, you might decide to leave that job.

Regarding staying and trying to change an organization, while that sounds admirable, it's not always the best choice for people. Many people determine they can do more good in the world spending their time in a different capacity.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:43 am

howell wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't being an attorney for the government even in the military mean that you have to be apolitical and it's to be expected? Even as a lawyer in general practice, you have to sort of be neutral and look at things from an entirely legal perspective. There are lot of internal things that you see at agencies (harassment, ethics issues etc.) as well that people don't agree with, but people stay and hopefully work towards changing things as reasonably possible.

Otherwise why not just work as an attorney for a Senator or Congressperson; or run for political office and you can really have some say in the law/policy. I'm not attacking you at all for your statement, by the way, and I hope it doesn't come off like that. Just intellectual curiosity. :)

Yes, you need to be able to put your politics aside to do your job at times. At other times, it is inevitable - and maybe desirable - that your politics impact what you do for the government. There are many jobs requiring discretion in what you do, so politics will impact your decisions there, but overall, especially in the military, when you're told to do something, you do that thing in your agency's best interest.

I would hope we all have a threshold for what we can justify to ourselves under the umbrella of "just doing my job." A lot of morally reprehensible things can still be lawful orders. Beyond that, there are some things you didn't sign up to do when you chose to become a government/military attorney. If what you're asked to do changes drastically, you might decide to leave that job.

Regarding staying and trying to change an organization, while that sounds admirable, it's not always the best choice for people. Many people determine they can do more good in the world spending their time in a different capacity.


Agreed. I'm not talking about being an attorney/military lawyer for a dictatorship or some insanely corrupt government, though. If it gets that bad, then yeah it may be time to re-think your decisions.

However, at least in the U.S. administrations come and go every 2 to 4 to 8 years, and for me it's important to remember is that the job is to serve the public. I get the sense that U.S. collectively at least tries to progress in spite of differing political beliefs. The U.S. has always been a social experiment in that you have a relatively young country with people of different races, genders, religions, ethnicities, ages, sexual orientations, capabilities etc. living together and attempting to figure out what laws/policy works best for everyone. It has advanced relatively quickly in the grand scheme of things. No other country in the world is like this one regardless of how you feel about it. But that's just my own opinion. I'll get off my soap box for now. :)

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:36 pm

I’m an OYCP cadet who just finished field training about a week ago. I’m excited to start the next phase of my training as a member of the POC, but I have a couple of questions for anyone who did GLP or OYCP:

1) At what point will my Det inform me of my POC job (I know I’ll be assigned something, but have yet to hear what)?

2) when will I receive my first duty assignment (before graduation, after graduation, after passing the bar)?

3) Will it be at all possible to go on AD while I wait for bar results? (I know I won’t be able to go to JASOC until I’m sworn in, but I’m excited to start my career)

Thanks in advance.

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heyarnold

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Re: Military Law

Postby heyarnold » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:44 am

^^ To OYCP Cadet above:

1) You'll most likely receive your POC job when you get back to school and the actual term starts. The wing commander and his/her wing staff is in charge of designating positions.

2) You'll receive your first duty assignment after you swear in / take the oath for the Bar where you are licensed in -- so after you receive your bar results.

3) You won't go AD during the two-three months that you're waiting for results. They can't conceivably make you an intel/contract officer for just a couple months and then switch you into the JAG Corps. You'll just have to be patient. ** Maybe you can find a way to extern and shadow a JAG office close to home for a couple months in a civilian role? But I've never heard anything like that ** Another option is to either fail the bar or refuse taking the bar, contract with the AF after you arrive back in your det as a POC, and go for another career field since you're already contracted for at least 4 years. Up to you haha

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Re: Military Law

Postby USMC Hopeful » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:20 pm

Looks like 288 will be my final PFT before boards next week. Out of my hands now. Really hoping to be in Quantico in September. Will find out in about a week.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:47 pm

Patrick, I have a question about prior drug use. Sorry if this has already been asked, but I understand JAG policy has changed a bit in recent years. Does prior pot use still endanger an application? For example, if I smoked pot a handful of times in undergrad ~5 years ago, what exactly would happen if I admit to that on my application forms? What would happen if I didn't and it was later discovered? Just wondering, haven't actually completed anything yet!

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Patrick, I have a question about prior drug use. Sorry if this has already been asked, but I understand JAG policy has changed a bit in recent years. Does prior pot use still endanger an application? For example, if I smoked pot a handful of times in undergrad ~5 years ago, what exactly would happen if I admit to that on my application forms? What would happen if I didn't and it was later discovered? Just wondering, haven't actually completed anything yet!


I addressed this fairly recently - search my posts and you can see where I weighed in on a similar question.

I've been in the reserves now for close to 4 years, so take this with a grain of salt, but I am not aware of any substantive change in policy regarding drug use. Marijuana is still a Schedule I substance as far as the Feds are concerned, regardless of changing views at the state and societal level.

In that you a law student or a lawyer, you can do your own research on the consequences for making a material misrepresentation on an official military form. To borrow from the ski instructor in South Park, you're gonna have a bad time.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:17 pm

For the AF types - dress and appearance reg has been updated with guidance on OCP implementation.

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/produ ... 6-2903.pdf

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Re: Military Law

Postby XOctavianX » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:25 am

Just a brief update, I heard back from JARO last week confirming that they are concurring with the medical DQ (strabismus). Now I am going to make some eye appointments (including tracking down the doctor who did my exam) and see if they would be willing to submit a report that my condition should not affect me for my waiver request. I'll let you all know how it goes.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:11 pm

For Army Reserve hiring, does how early you submit your application after the applications open in August impact how quickly you will hear back (and therefore, whether you will be slated for an earlier or later JAOBC start)? In other words, are applications considered on a rolling basis?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For Army Reserve hiring, does how early you submit your application after the applications open in August impact how quickly you will hear back (and therefore, whether you will be slated for an earlier or later JAOBC start)? In other words, are applications considered on a rolling basis?


Timing doesn't matter so long as it is on time. All applications will be reviewed by the same board in November/December.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:04 pm

Been 4.5 months since I passed MEPS, still no final selection letter.

The waiting is almost worse than studying for the bar.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Been 4.5 months since I passed MEPS, still no final selection letter.

The waiting is almost worse than studying for the bar.


I’m pretty sure you have to pass bar if you are a DAP.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:23 pm

I’ve been under the impression that you could get sent to ODS prior to passing - at which point you would go next to the law training aspect. But it’s possible that’s not the case and my recruiter has been wrong, it would make some sense to to wait.

It’d certainly be nice to get the waiting time off.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I’ve been under the impression that you could get sent to ODS prior to passing - at which point you would go next to the law training aspect. But it’s possible that’s not the case and my recruiter has been wrong, it would make some sense to to wait.

It’d certainly be nice to get the waiting time off.



Depends on the service/what program you were accepted under.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:12 pm

Can anyone shed some light on how long it typically takes to hear back after submitting the AF medical pre-screen/request for exam info? I'm an April board selectee and submitted medical records a little over 7 weeks ago and haven't heard anything. Tried contacting accessions but haven't heard back from them either. I'm guessing the answer is "it depends," but just wondering if I should be concerned with the lag time.

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Re: Military Law

Postby USMC Hopeful » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:23 pm

Heard back from USMC OCC Board. Negative. Apparently was a very competitive Board, only one lawyer chosen from our district, second time applicant, 295+ PFT. Mine was 288, and first-time applicant.

On the positive side, notes for my application said I was "highly encouraged" to apply for OCC-230.

As I've said before, I have a unique application and don't want to out myself, so PM me for details, and please don't quote.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:Been 4.5 months since I passed MEPS, still no final selection letter.

The waiting is almost worse than studying for the bar.


Good luck with the bar exam!!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Labrador911 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone shed some light on how long it typically takes to hear back after submitting the AF medical pre-screen/request for exam info? I'm an April board selectee and submitted medical records a little over 7 weeks ago and haven't heard anything. Tried contacting accessions but haven't heard back from them either. I'm guessing the answer is "it depends," but just wondering if I should be concerned with the lag time.


I'm a Dec. selectee and submitted all my paperwork by January. I only went to MEPS 2 weeks ago. Sounds like you're still within the timeline.

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Esquire

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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:51 am

Can a civilian federal employee that's in the reserves discuss health care? Do you use Tricare or the federal employee health insurance? I'm curious how health care will work if I decide to stay in the reserves.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:30 am

Esquire wrote:Can a civilian federal employee that's in the reserves discuss health care? Do you use Tricare or the federal employee health insurance? I'm curious how health care will work if I decide to stay in the reserves.


Civilian Fed employees are not eligible for the Tricare reserve plan. You have to pick up a Federally offered plan. I've been on the Blue Cross Blue Shield FEP since getting off of AD and have been very happy with it. Thankfully my family and I have been healthy, so I have not had to test the extremes, but for regular and specialized health care it has been just outstanding (ignoring my monthly payments and co-pays, but there is at least a solid Flex Spend program). That said, I am in the DC area where there are obviously going to be way more providers who accept plans like this, so YMMV.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:40 pm

1

dansanity

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Re: Military Law

Postby dansanity » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:43 pm

Hello
Im a rising 2L looking heavily into JAG. I was looking at one of the earlier forums (circa 2011) and at the time it was posted that the competitiveness of JAG went as follows (from most competitive to least)

Coast Guard
AF
Marines
NAVY
Army

Im wondering if this is still the case and if anyone knows the relative competitiveness of each.

Thanks all

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:07 pm

dansanity wrote:Hello
Im a rising 2L looking heavily into JAG. I was looking at one of the earlier forums (circa 2011) and at the time it was posted that the competitiveness of JAG went as follows (from most competitive to least)

Coast Guard
AF
Marines
NAVY
Army

Im wondering if this is still the case and if anyone knows the relative competitiveness of each.

Thanks all


I'm not sure what post you are referencing but the premise is simply incorrect.

The different services hire in different ways, with different priorities, in different quantities. All are highly competitive.

USCG may have the least amount of JAGs hired, but that is because they are the smallest, not because it is somehow harder to get in or more exclusive. USMC places a huge priority on fitness and given the rigors of OCS, which their JAGs attend, it takes a very specific type of applicant to make the cut. The Army, Navy, and AF similarly have very different missions which mean they may be looking for different things in their applicants.



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