Military Law

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brownshoe
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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:51 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
If memory serves, I submitted a 2 page resume.

I also have no ideas on the personal statement. With the volume of applicants, I seriously doubt they are reading these.


Maybe - but it may depend on the service and/or the particular board. At my interview (Navy), the O-6 read my statement in front of me to make sure it was "good" for the board. He seemed to think it was important - but it's also possible it carried very little weight.

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patrickd139
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Re: Military Law

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:52 pm

GLP interview with the SJA on Tuesday. Any tips/tricks?

cd2045
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Re: Military Law

Postby cd2045 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:14 pm

anyone who applied to the december selection board for air force jag hear back yet??

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:36 pm

cd2045 wrote:anyone who applied to the december selection board for air force jag hear back yet??


The results dropped on Friday. Selects should hear from the SJA this week.

GatorStudent
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Re: Military Law

Postby GatorStudent » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:55 pm

wesleybs wrote:Anyone hear results from Air Force Jag 2L internships?


No, not yet. If I do, I'll let you know.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:50 am

patrickd139 wrote:GLP interview with the SJA on Tuesday. Any tips/tricks?


Be able to answer why JAG as compared to private sector/other Fed Govt positions. Be able to answer why USAF JAG over our sister services. Be able to answer why you want to serve.

These seem basic but can be pretty damn hard to articulate. As someone posted a few pages back, the SJA is trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in turns of people who truly want to become officers and those just looking for employment. He/she will also be trying to access your ability as a leader and someone others would want to work with.

The biggest screw ups I have seen thus far:

Men with earings
Men with out of regs haircuts
Women with nose rings
People who have surprised/non-favorable reactions when the SJA briefs on deployments (honestly speaking, you are going to deploy) and PT (you are also expected to be able to run).


Good luck!

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patrickd139
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Re: Military Law

Postby patrickd139 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:11 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:GLP interview with the SJA on Tuesday. Any tips/tricks?


Be able to answer why JAG as compared to private sector/other Fed Govt positions. Be able to answer why USAF JAG over our sister services. Be able to answer why you want to serve.

These seem basic but can be pretty damn hard to articulate. As someone posted a few pages back, the SJA is trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in turns of people who truly want to become officers and those just looking for employment. He/she will also be trying to access your ability as a leader and someone others would want to work with.

The biggest screw ups I have seen thus far:

Men with earings
Men with out of regs haircuts
Women with nose rings
People who have surprised/non-favorable reactions when the SJA briefs on deployments (honestly speaking, you are going to deploy) and PT (you are also expected to be able to run).


Good luck!


Thanks. Once again, PB is clutch.

Baylan
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Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:01 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:GLP interview with the SJA on Tuesday. Any tips/tricks?


Be able to answer why JAG as compared to private sector/other Fed Govt positions. Be able to answer why USAF JAG over our sister services. Be able to answer why you want to serve.

These seem basic but can be pretty damn hard to articulate. As someone posted a few pages back, the SJA is trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in turns of people who truly want to become officers and those just looking for employment. He/she will also be trying to access your ability as a leader and someone others would want to work with.

The biggest screw ups I have seen thus far:

Men with earings
Men with out of regs haircuts
Women with nose rings
People who have surprised/non-favorable reactions when the SJA briefs on deployments (honestly speaking, you are going to deploy) and PT (you are also expected to be able to run).



Good luck!



Is it just me, or does this seem pretty... intuitive to me? You're literally trying to join one of the MOST conversvative organizations in the world. Why would you do anything that could call into question your ability to fit into that organization?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:45 pm

Baylan wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:GLP interview with the SJA on Tuesday. Any tips/tricks?


Be able to answer why JAG as compared to private sector/other Fed Govt positions. Be able to answer why USAF JAG over our sister services. Be able to answer why you want to serve.

These seem basic but can be pretty damn hard to articulate. As someone posted a few pages back, the SJA is trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in turns of people who truly want to become officers and those just looking for employment. He/she will also be trying to access your ability as a leader and someone others would want to work with.

The biggest screw ups I have seen thus far:

Men with earings
Men with out of regs haircuts
Women with nose rings
People who have surprised/non-favorable reactions when the SJA briefs on deployments (honestly speaking, you are going to deploy) and PT (you are also expected to be able to run).



Good luck!



Is it just me, or does this seem pretty... intuitive to me? You're literally trying to join one of the MOST conversvative organizations in the world. Why would you do anything that could call into question your ability to fit into that organization?


As Voltaire put it, "Common sense is not so common."

cd2045
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Re: Military Law

Postby cd2045 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:14 pm

anyone hear yet? the wait is killing me...

Patrick Bateman wrote:
cd2045 wrote:anyone who applied to the december selection board for air force jag hear back yet??


The results dropped on Friday. Selects should hear from the SJA this week.

ArmyVet07
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Re: Military Law

Postby ArmyVet07 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:34 pm

Baylan wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:GLP interview with the SJA on Tuesday. Any tips/tricks?


Be able to answer why JAG as compared to private sector/other Fed Govt positions. Be able to answer why USAF JAG over our sister services. Be able to answer why you want to serve.

These seem basic but can be pretty damn hard to articulate. As someone posted a few pages back, the SJA is trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in turns of people who truly want to become officers and those just looking for employment. He/she will also be trying to access your ability as a leader and someone others would want to work with.

The biggest screw ups I have seen thus far:

Men with earings
Men with out of regs haircuts
Women with nose rings
People who have surprised/non-favorable reactions when the SJA briefs on deployments (honestly speaking, you are going to deploy) and PT (you are also expected to be able to run).



Good luck!



Is it just me, or does this seem pretty... intuitive to me? You're literally trying to join one of the MOST conversvative organizations in the world. Why would you do anything that could call into question your ability to fit into that organization?


I don't know whether you're referring to the US military in general or to USAF JAG specifically. I cannot speak to USAF JAG, but if you are characterizing the US military as "one of the MOST conservative organizations in the world," you fail to realize that the military is a very pluralistic organization with members who represent a wide range of beliefs. That is one of its strengths.

brownshoe
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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:32 pm

ArmyVet07 wrote:
I don't know whether you're referring to the US military in general or to USAF JAG specifically. I cannot speak to USAF JAG, but if you are characterizing the US military as "one of the MOST conservative organizations in the world," you fail to realize that the military is a very pluralistic organization with members who represent a wide range of beliefs. That is one of its strengths.


I wouldn't interpret that as political conservatism - you are correct that there are many different beliefs represented. I think he might be referring to behavioral/appearance, in which case, it'd be hard to argue against that point.

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Mroberts3
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Re: Military Law

Postby Mroberts3 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:39 am

Thanks to all those JAGs/people applying for all the info. I've learned a lot about the program and the application process.

One thing I haven't seen much of (or forgot in the process of reading all 30 pages) is what your day to day life is like as an Air Force officer. Is there a "normal" day? Maybe just walk us through the major points of your last week...

How much personal freedom are you allowed during they? Do you have something they are making you do all day, or is it relatively 9-5 with free time after work. I don't ask this because I expect being in the military to be a 9-5 job, but I have a hard time conceiving what a given day is like for a JAG.

Side point, are you allowed to have a dog live with you? (I would assume not in the barracks, but I think someone said officers live in private housing/off base).

Thanks!

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jchuguley
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Re: Military Law

Postby jchuguley » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:00 am

Mroberts3 wrote:Thanks to all those JAGs/people applying for all the info. I've learned a lot about the program and the application process.

One thing I haven't seen much of (or forgot in the process of reading all 30 pages) is what your day to day life is like as an Air Force officer. Is there a "normal" day? Maybe just walk us through the major points of your last week...

How much personal freedom are you allowed during they? Do you have something they are making you do all day, or is it relatively 9-5 with free time after work. I don't ask this because I expect being in the military to be a 9-5 job, but I have a hard time conceiving what a given day is like for a JAG.

Side point, are you allowed to have a dog live with you? (I would assume not in the barracks, but I think someone said officers live in private housing/off base).


Thanks!


I'm pretty sure [in most, but not all cases] you receive a housing allowance; where you live is entirely up to you - you can choose to live on base, thereby forfeiting your housing allowance, or you can take said allowance and get a place of your own/pool with other officers on a combined living space. This allowance is usually pretty reasonable, and I'm pretty sure it's based roughly on rank, marital status and the local COL.
To answer your question, then, as long as your assignment lands you in a position to take a housing allowance and get your own place, you should be fine. I'm not certain that in every assignment, that's possible, but it's usually the case, provided you're not stationed abroad. Can anyone credit this? I grew up as an AF brat, but I'm not 100% sure that all of the above is legit info.

bahama
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Re: Military Law

Postby bahama » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:21 am

The only issue I see with having a dog depends is what are you going to do with it when you deploy/travel? There may be circumstances where you have to pick up and go somewhere for a couple of weeks with very short notice and obviously that gets to be a much bigger pain if you are trying to find a kennel or friends to watch your dog etc. Also, there is a good chance you are going to do a deployment overseas at some point (3-15 months).

Baylan
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Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:13 am

ArmyVet07 wrote:
Baylan wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:GLP interview with the SJA on Tuesday. Any tips/tricks?


Be able to answer why JAG as compared to private sector/other Fed Govt positions. Be able to answer why USAF JAG over our sister services. Be able to answer why you want to serve.

These seem basic but can be pretty damn hard to articulate. As someone posted a few pages back, the SJA is trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in turns of people who truly want to become officers and those just looking for employment. He/she will also be trying to access your ability as a leader and someone others would want to work with.

The biggest screw ups I have seen thus far:

Men with earings
Men with out of regs haircuts
Women with nose rings
People who have surprised/non-favorable reactions when the SJA briefs on deployments (honestly speaking, you are going to deploy) and PT (you are also expected to be able to run).



Good luck!



Is it just me, or does this seem pretty... intuitive to me? You're literally trying to join one of the MOST conversvative organizations in the world. Why would you do anything that could call into question your ability to fit into that organization?


I don't know whether you're referring to the US military in general or to USAF JAG specifically. I cannot speak to USAF JAG, but if you are characterizing the US military as "one of the MOST conservative organizations in the world," you fail to realize that the military is a very pluralistic organization with members who represent a wide range of beliefs. That is one of its strengths.


I did not mean it in the sense of the organization being politically conservative, just conservative in the sense that the legal profession, as a whole, is very conservative in terms of decorum and traditionalism (conservative dress, traditionalism within the courtroom, that type of thing). The U.S. military seems to overemphasize that point. Military dress, groomig requirements, and the standard of rank and heirarchy seems to dictate being a fairly "conservative" organization not in a political sense, but in the senes of an organization that does not take kindly to "rebels."

GeesesAintTeethes
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Re: Military Law

Postby GeesesAintTeethes » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:43 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Wellsfargowagon wrote:
kilgoretrout wrote:A big concern for yall is duty location. Army and Air Force have a high chance of getting sent to some godawful base in the middle of nowhere (i have a good friend that was stuck in ND). Navy followed by Marines have best duty locations. You have a great chance of getting Hawaii, Jacksonville Florida, or San Diego(god's gift to single people everywhere). If you get a bad duty location you might get stuck in virginia beach. Poor you.
Marines you have about a 50 percent chance of swinging San Diego, but theres a 30 percent chance you get sent to Jacksonville, NC, which sucks pretty hard.


But keep in mind that unlike other services, Air Force is the only branch whose JAG recruits know their initial base assignment before incurring a service obligation. This means that if you absolutely could not stand the location of the base to which they want to assign you, you can withdraw your application and forgo commissioning altogether. Bolling and Andrews AFB are both large DC area bases which, I'm assuming, have their fair share of JAGs, so going AF doesn't mean bad single life. AF's deployments are also far, far shorter than those of other branches.


TITCR.
Not much time to enjoy San Diego during one's 16 month deployment to Basra.

Air Force can be as great as Charleston, SC or Colorado Springs and as miserable as Enid, Oklahoma. I think lousy duty stations come with each branch, even if that comes in the form of a 6 month ship tour with two thousand other guys on a carrier.

I also have to obviously disagree that lay prestige favors the other branches over Air Force. Obviously Marines have a total hold on being the toughest, but many also consider them a bunch of high-and-tight knuckle draggers. The Air Force may be the Chair Force, but it also the most cutting edge in terms of technology and is neck and neck with the Navy in terms of being the most intellectual.

Obviously there is no talking anyone with prior service or active duty out of their belief that their branch is the best, but I think it is totally baseless to say that lay prestige is far and away in any specific camp.


Thanks for posting. Great information. I'm interested in military law. Veteran of the USMC. Air Force is Corporate America wearing a uniform and I wouldn't mind joining after law school. :) PT won't be a problem. Deploying will not be a problem.

amped
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Re: Military Law

Postby amped » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:16 am

Anyone heard anything about the Army JAG Summer Intern program and when they are going to release the results?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:42 am

GeesesAintTeethes wrote: Thanks for posting. Great information. I'm interested in military law. Veteran of the USMC. Air Force is Corporate America wearing a uniform and I wouldn't mind joining after law school. :) PT won't be a problem. Deploying will not be a problem.


One of my good friends in my office that I went through OTS and JASOC with is a prior Devil Dog as well. He never misses a chance to bring it up!

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:00 am

Mroberts3 wrote:Thanks to all those JAGs/people applying for all the info. I've learned a lot about the program and the application process.

One thing I haven't seen much of (or forgot in the process of reading all 30 pages) is what your day to day life is like as an Air Force officer. Is there a "normal" day? Maybe just walk us through the major points of your last week...

How much personal freedom are you allowed during they? Do you have something they are making you do all day, or is it relatively 9-5 with free time after work. I don't ask this because I expect being in the military to be a 9-5 job, but I have a hard time conceiving what a given day is like for a JAG.

Side point, are you allowed to have a dog live with you? (I would assume not in the barracks, but I think someone said officers live in private housing/off base).

Thanks!


Days tend to follow general patterns but no day for me is ever the same. My typical week is 0730-1730. I PT M/W/F in the mornings so I am not actually in the office until 0900. I only come in on the weekends when I have a court martial coming up. I do 2-4 hours of legal assistance each week which can vary from wills to landlord tenant issues to divorce to who knows what. Sometimes my week involve lots of little projects, maybe 5-6 one hour tasks in a single day. Other times I will spend the vast majority of a week on a single issue.

Then there are plenty of the fires that come out of no where that need to be put out. Shirts and Commanders call out of the blue needing answers yesterday. I also am usually working 1-3 courts at any given time. Most of that is interviewing witnesses, working with OSI, and working with my leadership on how the case is going to proceed.

My experiences at my base differ quite a bit compared to my friends at other bases. My legal office is comparatively large, so we have each JAG handling one or two sections: Claims, Admin Law, Environmental Law, Aviation/Operations Law, etc. Smaller offices that only have 4 Assistant Staff Judge Advocates might have a single JAG wearing five or six different hats. Some bases are a very high court martial tempo, others might only see 2-3 courts in a single year.

I think a dog is a bad idea unless you are living with a significant other. You will be constantly going TDY at the AF and Army JAG Schools for training. Deployments are also an ever increasing reality for us. As a single male, I would have had a very difficult time caring for a dog.
Air Force Officers do live off base once OTS and JASOC are completed. Our lives are very normal once you get over wearing an ABU to work. We also do not have Barracks - those are the province of the Army and Marine Corps. The Air Force has Dorms.

GeesesAintTeethes
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Re: Military Law

Postby GeesesAintTeethes » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:30 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
GeesesAintTeethes wrote: Thanks for posting. Great information. I'm interested in military law. Veteran of the USMC. Air Force is Corporate America wearing a uniform and I wouldn't mind joining after law school. :) PT won't be a problem. Deploying will not be a problem.


One of my good friends in my office that I went through OTS and JASOC with is a prior Devil Dog as well. He never misses a chance to bring it up!


LOL! Too funny. If I decide to pursue this during law school, I'll only bring up USMC here and there (at least that's what I intend).

Once again, great information and thanks for posting. Air Force is a unique branch and I wouldn't mind being an attorney for the Air Force JAG!

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:43 pm

Congrats Air Force! Way to dominate Houston.

Now: Go Navy! Beat Mizzou!!

EastCoaster
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Re: Military Law

Postby EastCoaster » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:55 pm

Edit: Deleted.
Last edited by EastCoaster on Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:05 pm

EastCoaster wrote:Hey all, quick question that I hope someone here can help me with: If I went to Marine OCS - PLC Juniors (the first half) during undergrad, but did not commission, then is it true that I should answer "no" when asked if I have ever served in the armed forces?

I realize that the contract simply called for a commitment only during the Summer training, but I am curious to clear this up and make sure that I am correct - as I am in the process of filling out the 'dreaded' bar exam application and I don't want to contradict myself by stating "no, I have never served" and then listing it as summer employment within the last five years in another section!

Thank you for your assistance and best of luck.

I'm not familiar with the OCS program you are talking about. But the easiest (and seems to me safest) way to answer that question is by asking this one:

Did you get a DD-214 at the completion of the program? If yes, then you have credited military service. If not, you don't. (Added plus: If someone asks down the line, you can tell them you didn't get a DD-214, they will understand what that means and you will look like you've done more than the average homework on the military.)

lsatbdog
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Re: Military Law

Postby lsatbdog » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:16 pm

EastCoaster wrote:Hey all, quick question that I hope someone here can help me with: If I went to Marine OCS - PLC Juniors (the first half) during undergrad, but did not commission, then is it true that I should answer "no" when asked if I have ever served in the armed forces?

I realize that the contract simply called for a commitment only during the Summer training, but I am curious to clear this up and make sure that I am correct - as I am in the process of filling out the 'dreaded' bar exam application and I don't want to contradict myself by stating "no, I have never served" and then listing it as summer employment within the last five years in another section!

Thank you for your assistance and best of luck.


Call your nearest Marine OSO and ask them this, it won't take more than 10 minutes. An internet messageboard is probably not the best place to get this answer, and it is that officers job to have answers to questions like that. That is too important a question to trust to people on a messageboard, even if they may have the correct answer. That said, because you never commissioned, (or took the oath?) I can't imagine that you are considered to have served in the armed forces; you basically only went to the first of 3 steps of training (OCS, TBS, MOS) so at least in "real" terms you were nowhere close to actually being a Marine officer. Again though, just get in contact with your nearest officer recruiting station, as I'm sure this is a somewhat common question and you are way better off safe than sorry.




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