Military Law

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Anonymous User
Posts: 302715
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:51 pm

stopthepuck22 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If we didn't get the call for army jag at this point, does that mean we weren't professionally recommended for active duty?


Good question. I hope the answer is "no" (I'm still waiting on a call myself), and I'll note three things while I'm here:

1. Army doesn't traditionally call; at least that's what my read of this forum shows.
2. There's only been one non-Anon post about calls, and it was generic ("FYI AF calls coming out today") - no one using their own name has confirmed any call.
3. Even if Army is calling, and they are calling today, there were 179 folks on last years' AD primary selection list (i.e. in addition to alternates) and it may take JARO staff some time to make all of the calls.


I'm also suspicious that any calls for Army have gone out - I have been told in the past that no one outside of the board sees the list before it is published. Also, If it helps, the year I got selected I did not receive a call - further the Army is on holiday schedule this week, so if calls actually are going out, it is hit and miss which recruiters are actually in the office to make the calls.


One of the Army JAG anons today. Not sure why I would lie, it seems like an odd thing to lie about. In terms of being anon, that's just common sense. These results are not yet "official" since the list wasn't published, and I'd rather not have people figure out who I am IRL potentially from the JAG info and from my previous post.

Of course, it is entirely possible that they didn't call everyone who will be on the list tomorrow

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:55 pm

CharlieAvocado wrote:
usfvictor wrote:
stopthepuck22 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If we didn't get the call for army jag at this point, does that mean we weren't professionally recommended for active duty?


Good question. I hope the answer is "no" (I'm still waiting on a call myself), and I'll note three things while I'm here:

1. Army doesn't traditionally call; at least that's what my read of this forum shows.
2. There's only been one non-Anon post about calls, and it was generic ("FYI AF calls coming out today") - no one using their own name has confirmed any call.
3. Even if Army is calling, and they are calling today, there were 179 folks on last years' AD primary selection list (i.e. in addition to alternates) and it may take JARO staff some time to make all of the calls.


I'm also suspicious that any calls for Army have gone out - I have been told in the past that no one outside of the board sees the list before it is published. Also, If it helps, the year I got selected I did not receive a call - further the Army is on holiday schedule this week, so if calls actually are going out, it is hit and miss which recruiters are actually in the office to make the calls.



hhhmmmm well has anyone else gotten an AF or Army call today that isn't anon?


A good classmate and friend of mine got a call today from Army, primary, and I know that probably doesn't help your impressive amount of suspicion any. But it is true.


Non-select for army. Congrats on getting a call. Always next year for the rest of us I guess.

Roclandsfinest23
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Roclandsfinest23 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:04 pm

Got a call and missed it :cry:

Elle.Woods
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Elle.Woods » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:09 pm

usfvictor wrote:
stopthepuck22 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If we didn't get the call for army jag at this point, does that mean we weren't professionally recommended for active duty?


Good question. I hope the answer is "no" (I'm still waiting on a call myself), and I'll note three things while I'm here:

1. Army doesn't traditionally call; at least that's what my read of this forum shows.
2. There's only been one non-Anon post about calls, and it was generic ("FYI AF calls coming out today") - no one using their own name has confirmed any call.
3. Even if Army is calling, and they are calling today, there were 179 folks on last years' AD primary selection list (i.e. in addition to alternates) and it may take JARO staff some time to make all of the calls.


I'm also suspicious that any calls for Army have gone out - I have been told in the past that no one outside of the board sees the list before it is published. Also, If it helps, the year I got selected I did not receive a call - further the Army is on holiday schedule this week, so if calls actually are going out, it is hit and miss which recruiters are actually in the office to make the calls.



hhhmmmm well has anyone else gotten an AF or Army call today that isn't anon?


I got a call from AF this morning confirming that I was selected.

Anonymous User
Posts: 302715
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:23 pm

Elle.Woods wrote:
usfvictor wrote:
stopthepuck22 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If we didn't get the call for army jag at this point, does that mean we weren't professionally recommended for active duty?


Good question. I hope the answer is "no" (I'm still waiting on a call myself), and I'll note three things while I'm here:

1. Army doesn't traditionally call; at least that's what my read of this forum shows.
2. There's only been one non-Anon post about calls, and it was generic ("FYI AF calls coming out today") - no one using their own name has confirmed any call.
3. Even if Army is calling, and they are calling today, there were 179 folks on last years' AD primary selection list (i.e. in addition to alternates) and it may take JARO staff some time to make all of the calls.


I'm also suspicious that any calls for Army have gone out - I have been told in the past that no one outside of the board sees the list before it is published. Also, If it helps, the year I got selected I did not receive a call - further the Army is on holiday schedule this week, so if calls actually are going out, it is hit and miss which recruiters are actually in the office to make the calls.



hhhmmmm well has anyone else gotten an AF or Army call today that isn't anon?


I got a call from AF this morning confirming that I was selected.


Was the call from Andrews? First letter of last name? And did they provide to you your assignment?

Elle.Woods
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Elle.Woods » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Elle.Woods wrote:
usfvictor wrote:
stopthepuck22 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If we didn't get the call for army jag at this point, does that mean we weren't professionally recommended for active duty?


Good question. I hope the answer is "no" (I'm still waiting on a call myself), and I'll note three things while I'm here:

1. Army doesn't traditionally call; at least that's what my read of this forum shows.
2. There's only been one non-Anon post about calls, and it was generic ("FYI AF calls coming out today") - no one using their own name has confirmed any call.
3. Even if Army is calling, and they are calling today, there were 179 folks on last years' AD primary selection list (i.e. in addition to alternates) and it may take JARO staff some time to make all of the calls.


I'm also suspicious that any calls for Army have gone out - I have been told in the past that no one outside of the board sees the list before it is published. Also, If it helps, the year I got selected I did not receive a call - further the Army is on holiday schedule this week, so if calls actually are going out, it is hit and miss which recruiters are actually in the office to make the calls.



hhhmmmm well has anyone else gotten an AF or Army call today that isn't anon?


I got a call from AF this morning confirming that I was selected.


Was the call from Andrews? First letter of last name? And did they provide to you your assignment?


The call was from the SJA that interviewed me, and I wasn't given any information other than I will be receiving a package of information. I am a 3L, so I will not be able to go to COT and JASOC until October 2017 at the earliest. Finally, I am not sure whose last name you're referring to.

aussie828
Posts: 13
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Re: Military Law

Postby aussie828 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:45 pm

I just received a call from my Army interviewer. I was selected as an alternate for active duty. I informed her that I was already selected for the Air Force, so I'm not taking anyone else's slot. Still waiting for the MEPS call, though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 302715
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:51 pm

Picked up for reserves. Does anyone have any advice about this?

I heard there are a TON of downsides. 1. You're basically precluded from all private sector hiring because of drill for at least 2 weeks out of the year. 2. Switching to active duty is pretty much impossible. 3. Retirement benefits are on a different timeline. 4. No veteran's preference unless you get a certain number of AD hours.

Is there any reason to commission with the reserves? I'm just hesitant to preclude myself from the entire private sector for a 2 week part time job with no hopes of advancement to AD.

Anonymous User
Posts: 302715
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Picked up for reserves. Does anyone have any advice about this?

I heard there are a TON of downsides. 1. You're basically precluded from all private sector hiring because of drill for at least 2 weeks out of the year. 2. Switching to active duty is pretty much impossible. 3. Retirement benefits are on a different timeline. 4. No veteran's preference unless you get a certain number of AD hours.

Is there any reason to commission with the reserves? I'm just hesitant to preclude myself from the entire private sector for a 2 week part time job with no hopes of advancement to AD.


Did you get a call or is the list posted somewhere?

Also, yeah, a lot of your concerns about reserve life are correct. If your goal is active duty, it's probably not the way to go. Reserves are best for government employees, frankly.

wg6524
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:17 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wg6524 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Picked up for reserves. Does anyone have any advice about this?

I heard there are a TON of downsides. 1. You're basically precluded from all private sector hiring because of drill for at least 2 weeks out of the year. 2. Switching to active duty is pretty much impossible. 3. Retirement benefits are on a different timeline. 4. No veteran's preference unless you get a certain number of AD hours.

Is there any reason to commission with the reserves? I'm just hesitant to preclude myself from the entire private sector for a 2 week part time job with no hopes of advancement to AD.


Did you get a call or is the list posted somewhere?

Also, yeah, a lot of your concerns about reserve life are correct. If your goal is active duty, it's probably not the way to go. Reserves are best for government employees, frankly.


I agree with #2, 3, & 4. However, I think the "precluded from all private sector hiring" is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Yes, it's tougher to balance the civilian and military careers, but it IS ABSOLUTELY DOABLE if you want it bad enough. You just have to want both and be willing to give up some of the freedom that choosing one or the other would naturally give you (i.e. you don't get to have every weekend off and yes you may be asked to do things in a non-pay status between battle assemblies. Yes it's frustrating. I know first hand. But it can be balanced. Sometimes the Reserves gives and the Civilian employment takes and other times its the other way around. I've been a Battery Commander during Law School and it's not a cake walk. You do something almost every day if not every other day for the Reserves. It's a conscious choice, not a "i'm here for the free beer and Applebees discount" type of reserves these days. Government employers are more understanding than civilian for sure; however, I have run across at least two civilian employers since choosing to go military that have said that they would honor every reserve commitment I had and help me balance it. Annual training can be split up (the two weeks a year) It's not hard. Communication is the key.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:15 pm

Would they call after 5 pm EST?

Anonymous User
Posts: 302715
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:29 pm

wg6524 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Picked up for reserves. Does anyone have any advice about this?

I heard there are a TON of downsides. 1. You're basically precluded from all private sector hiring because of drill for at least 2 weeks out of the year. 2. Switching to active duty is pretty much impossible. 3. Retirement benefits are on a different timeline. 4. No veteran's preference unless you get a certain number of AD hours.

Is there any reason to commission with the reserves? I'm just hesitant to preclude myself from the entire private sector for a 2 week part time job with no hopes of advancement to AD.


Did you get a call or is the list posted somewhere?

Also, yeah, a lot of your concerns about reserve life are correct. If your goal is active duty, it's probably not the way to go. Reserves are best for government employees, frankly.


I agree with #2, 3, & 4. However, I think the "precluded from all private sector hiring" is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Yes, it's tougher to balance the civilian and military careers, but it IS ABSOLUTELY DOABLE if you want it bad enough. You just have to want both and be willing to give up some of the freedom that choosing one or the other would naturally give you (i.e. you don't get to have every weekend off and yes you may be asked to do things in a non-pay status between battle assemblies. Yes it's frustrating. I know first hand. But it can be balanced. Sometimes the Reserves gives and the Civilian employment takes and other times its the other way around. I've been a Battery Commander during Law School and it's not a cake walk. You do something almost every day if not every other day for the Reserves. It's a conscious choice, not a "i'm here for the free beer and Applebees discount" type of reserves these days. Government employers are more understanding than civilian for sure; however, I have run across at least two civilian employers since choosing to go military that have said that they would honor every reserve commitment I had and help me balance it. Annual training can be split up (the two weeks a year) It's not hard. Communication is the key.


How are the exit options down the line as a reservist? Are reservists as competitive as AD JAGs for positions in the DOJ or working with military contractors (like with Boeing)?

Anonymous User
Posts: 302715
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:12 pm

Anyone else get a call for Army AD alternate and planning on riding it out? It looked through this thread and it seems like there were a few people pulled out last year and the year before. Anyone have more info on how it works?

Roclandsfinest23
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Roclandsfinest23 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:30 pm

Got accepted for Army Active Duty!!

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
wg6524 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Picked up for reserves. Does anyone have any advice about this?

I heard there are a TON of downsides. 1. You're basically precluded from all private sector hiring because of drill for at least 2 weeks out of the year. 2. Switching to active duty is pretty much impossible. 3. Retirement benefits are on a different timeline. 4. No veteran's preference unless you get a certain number of AD hours.

Is there any reason to commission with the reserves? I'm just hesitant to preclude myself from the entire private sector for a 2 week part time job with no hopes of advancement to AD.


Did you get a call or is the list posted somewhere?

Also, yeah, a lot of your concerns about reserve life are correct. If your goal is active duty, it's probably not the way to go. Reserves are best for government employees, frankly.


I agree with #2, 3, & 4. However, I think the "precluded from all private sector hiring" is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Yes, it's tougher to balance the civilian and military careers, but it IS ABSOLUTELY DOABLE if you want it bad enough. You just have to want both and be willing to give up some of the freedom that choosing one or the other would naturally give you (i.e. you don't get to have every weekend off and yes you may be asked to do things in a non-pay status between battle assemblies. Yes it's frustrating. I know first hand. But it can be balanced. Sometimes the Reserves gives and the Civilian employment takes and other times its the other way around. I've been a Battery Commander during Law School and it's not a cake walk. You do something almost every day if not every other day for the Reserves. It's a conscious choice, not a "i'm here for the free beer and Applebees discount" type of reserves these days. Government employers are more understanding than civilian for sure; however, I have run across at least two civilian employers since choosing to go military that have said that they would honor every reserve commitment I had and help me balance it. Annual training can be split up (the two weeks a year) It's not hard. Communication is the key.


How are the exit options down the line as a reservist? Are reservists as competitive as AD JAGs for positions in the DOJ or working with military contractors (like with Boeing)?


Exit options are 100% based on the skill set you can bring to the table for a potential employer. JAGs are not marketable simply because they put on a uniform - sometimes it can help indirectly (former military might prefer hiring military, all other things being equal). There is no real hiring preference for 99% of the Fed attorney jobs (which are excepted service, not competitive service, so the points are essentially meaningless).

The JAGs that get hired to DOJ/USAO do so because they have significant experience doing (relatively) complex cases in front of a jury equivalent and often in a first chair capacity. As I have posted on previously, trial experience is a real commodity and it is what makes JAG military justice practitioners appealing for Feds and some white collar practices.

I have to believe the same would be for the Big 4 contractors - the former JAGs getting these jobs are usually highly experienced in military contracting, acquisitions, and procurement. It's not being a JAG that gets them the job, its the fact that serving as a JAG gave them the experience they needed to be marketable.

It usually takes JAGs on AD 6-10 years to develop a sufficient skill set to be effective at marketing themselves in these specialties (at least when it comes to military justice, IMHO). Unless you end up on extended orders, it is doubtful you will get this depth of experience as a reservist.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:03 pm

Second all of that. (Not a JAG, but have been on both reserve and active duty.) You can get a lot of useful, marketable experience as a reservist, but usually only when you're actually mobilized for an extended period of time. If all you ever do as a reservist is your standard two weeks a year, one weekend a month, it's probably not going to open many doors.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:03 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
wg6524 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Picked up for reserves. Does anyone have any advice about this?

I heard there are a TON of downsides. 1. You're basically precluded from all private sector hiring because of drill for at least 2 weeks out of the year. 2. Switching to active duty is pretty much impossible. 3. Retirement benefits are on a different timeline. 4. No veteran's preference unless you get a certain number of AD hours.

Is there any reason to commission with the reserves? I'm just hesitant to preclude myself from the entire private sector for a 2 week part time job with no hopes of advancement to AD.


Did you get a call or is the list posted somewhere?

Also, yeah, a lot of your concerns about reserve life are correct. If your goal is active duty, it's probably not the way to go. Reserves are best for government employees, frankly.


I agree with #2, 3, & 4. However, I think the "precluded from all private sector hiring" is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Yes, it's tougher to balance the civilian and military careers, but it IS ABSOLUTELY DOABLE if you want it bad enough. You just have to want both and be willing to give up some of the freedom that choosing one or the other would naturally give you (i.e. you don't get to have every weekend off and yes you may be asked to do things in a non-pay status between battle assemblies. Yes it's frustrating. I know first hand. But it can be balanced. Sometimes the Reserves gives and the Civilian employment takes and other times its the other way around. I've been a Battery Commander during Law School and it's not a cake walk. You do something almost every day if not every other day for the Reserves. It's a conscious choice, not a "i'm here for the free beer and Applebees discount" type of reserves these days. Government employers are more understanding than civilian for sure; however, I have run across at least two civilian employers since choosing to go military that have said that they would honor every reserve commitment I had and help me balance it. Annual training can be split up (the two weeks a year) It's not hard. Communication is the key.


How are the exit options down the line as a reservist? Are reservists as competitive as AD JAGs for positions in the DOJ or working with military contractors (like with Boeing)?


Exit options are 100% based on the skill set you can bring to the table for a potential employer. JAGs are not marketable simply because they put on a uniform - sometimes it can help indirectly (former military might prefer hiring military, all other things being equal). There is no real hiring preference for 99% of the Fed attorney jobs (which are excepted service, not competitive service, so the points are essentially meaningless).

The JAGs that get hired to DOJ/USAO do so because they have significant experience doing (relatively) complex cases in front of a jury equivalent and often in a first chair capacity. As I have posted on previously, trial experience is a real commodity and it is what makes JAG military justice practitioners appealing for Feds and some white collar practices.

I have to believe the same would be for the Big 4 contractors - the former JAGs getting these jobs are usually highly experienced in military contracting, acquisitions, and procurement. It's not being a JAG that gets them the job, its the fact that serving as a JAG gave them the experience they needed to be marketable.

It usually takes JAGs on AD 6-10 years to develop a sufficient skill set to be effective at marketing themselves in these specialties (at least when it comes to military justice, IMHO). Unless you end up on extended orders, it is doubtful you will get this depth of experience as a reservist.


Wow. The more I hear about JAG reserves, the more I feel like it's a dead-end job (ignoring the whole love of country, oorah, etc.), unless you're underemployed/unemployed, in which case you can volunteer for a ton of stuff and get good experience.

Still want to be an officer though. Should I just try for the Army Quartermaster Corps instead?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:36 pm

Roclandsfinest23 wrote:Got accepted for Army Active Duty!!


CONGRATS!! Do you know Sgt. Deez??

w7ldcard
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby w7ldcard » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:50 am

usfvictor wrote:
w7ldcard wrote:FYI AF calls are coming out today


You get the call? If so, Congrats. I know we were both waiting in Oct board.


I got Oct board. Classmate got Dec board !

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:Wow. The more I hear about JAG reserves, the more I feel like it's a dead-end job (ignoring the whole love of country, oorah, etc.), unless you're underemployed/unemployed, in which case you can volunteer for a ton of stuff and get good experience.

Still want to be an officer though. Should I just try for the Army Quartermaster Corps instead?


This is overstating it, I think. It's not a dead end job, but it's not intended to be your primary gig or means of career advancement. I did a lot of cool things as a reservist (not a JAG) but I was also a federal employee in my civilian life, so I had the flexibility to jump on cool opportunities as they arose. I went to some cool TDY courses, commanded a company in Iraq, and spent a year and a half on the staff of a major command. I had a lot of the same experiences someone who went straight active would have had. But again, I had the flexibility with my civilian gig to do that. I think wg6524 is right that it's possible to make it work with a private sector career, but it's definitely much harder. If you look at the bios of a lot of senior reserve officers, at least in the DC area, a ton of them work in the public sector in their civilian lives.

Also, just an aside, the Army Quartermaster Corps thought is kind of random. Why the QM Corps? Why did you go to law school if being a military officer is more important than being a lawyer? Why not just apply to the next JAG board? Just a thought.

Roclandsfinest23
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Roclandsfinest23 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:07 am

List is up. Congrats everyone

thxrho
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:20 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby thxrho » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:12 am

Got ARMY AD!!


Results are online at JARO. Congrats everyone! 282 primary; 82 alternates
Last edited by thxrho on Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:14 am

Congrats everyone who got in. I only applied to the Reserve board, but likely won't be taking it. But if anyone has questions about the USAR life, feel free to PM me.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:28 am

So I made it on as an alternate... What does that mean??

Standish
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:33 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Standish » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:36 am

Accepted for Army Active Duty! Didn't get a phone call--only saw the list when it was posted this morning.




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