Military Law

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w7ldcard
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Re: Military Law

Postby w7ldcard » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:52 pm

livefromannarbor wrote:I may be reading far, far too much into this because I'm anxiously waiting, but I noticed when I logged into my online application account today, it says in the top right corner that I applied for the DAP Board (05 October 2016). Do you think that this means the board met on the 5th? That seems a little early to me (and we can get our results whenever, so it probably doesn't indicate that there will be an early release), but I'm curious what your thoughts are.



Last year I believe it wasn't until Oct 14/15 that they found out the board had met. It was about 2 weeks after that (Starting Oct. 30th --> Nov 7th) that notifications started going out to applicants. Since this year is much sooner (allegedly), hopefully we get notifications the week or two before the 30th.

trustdan
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Re: Military Law

Postby trustdan » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:56 pm

Is it just me or did the dates shift around on the AF application website since the deadline? I submitted timely, and saved a printout of the confirmation, but now my document upload dates are showing the 11th (10th was the deadline). I called JAX about it and left a message, so I'm sure they know about the bug. I'm on Eastern time so it isn't as if that's an issue. After the deadline, the dates at the top (deadline and board meeting dates) changed a few times by a few days, but now they're back to normal - except the uploads. Not too worried because my application submitted successfully and I interviewed and everything, but still.

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livefromannarbor
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Re: Military Law

Postby livefromannarbor » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:Originally the date was 10/1, which was a Sat. My guess is that not too many people apply for the Oct board, so it goes by quickly. The biggest wait now is for TJAG to approve the board's recommendations and JAX to process the list. From previous posts, selectees are usually contacted by their SJAs on a Tues. Probably the 25th if I had to guess. Non-selectees will get either an email or letter sometime after that.


w7ldcard wrote:Last year I believe it wasn't until Oct 14/15 that they found out the board had met. It was about 2 weeks after that (Starting Oct. 30th --> Nov 7th) that notifications started going out to applicants. Since this year is much sooner (allegedly), hopefully we get notifications the week or two before the 30th.


Thanks for the dates. Fingers crossed that you're both right and we hear back before November, or at least before the December board deadline.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just my opinions from a fellow applicant:

1. Use your work history to your advantage in your motivation statement and interview. Criminal litigation is a big part of JAG, and they also practice in different areas and move frequently with PCS.

2. Motivation statement is basically a cover letter. Maybe discuss a portion about your fitness, but you also need to write about your work experience, which sounds like your strongest point as discussed in the first point. Also, your photo and the interviewing SJA will assess your fitness.

3. Letters - get 5 of them no matter what. Since you're only three years out, I'd have at least one prof.


Responding to Anon, 12 Oct 2016, 06:41

This reply is spot on (and thankfully far more succinct than I would have been).

Don't overthink the "help me/hurt me" in respect to your work history. There is no changing the past, so embrace it and sell all the positives from that. You be asked why you made the moves when you did, so be ready with a good answer, but in all I see all of your career stuff as a positive - the DA and PD work in particular will sell well.

Don't burn space on your personal statement about running. It will come up in your SJA interview when they discuss fitness standards - that is your moment to talk all about the marathons. I would also consider conducting your own mock PT test and seeing where you score. That is always something you can bring up in the interview as well.

You 100% have to do the letters. And you really should get all five. Co-workers, immediate supervisors, former judges you appeared before frequently, etc -- get creative.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: My guess is that not too many people apply for the Oct board, so it goes by quickly.


Ultimately neither here nor there, but I doubt this is the case. The October board is the first opportunity for 3Ls to apply - you are going to have your highest concentration of 3Ls at this board due this and the general timing (hiring for most legal positions comes in the fall). Come December and April, offers for other jobs will have gone out and only the die hard 3Ls that were not picked up in Oct will be applying again.

For already licensed attorneys, I don't see any application window being higher or lower with applicants.

usfvictor
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Re: Military Law

Postby usfvictor » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:34 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: My guess is that not too many people apply for the Oct board, so it goes by quickly.


Ultimately neither here nor there, but I doubt this is the case. The October board is the first opportunity for 3Ls to apply - you are going to have your highest concentration of 3Ls at this board due this and the general timing (hiring for most legal positions comes in the fall). Come December and April, offers for other jobs will have gone out and only the die hard 3Ls that were not picked up in Oct will be applying again.

For already licensed attorneys, I don't see any application window being higher or lower with applicants.


That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight.

usfvictor
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Re: Military Law

Postby usfvictor » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:18 am

Since we are waiting, I added to the list that was posted before the last October board. Below are when the results for AF DAP were released.

October 2015 Board: October 30th
October 2014 Board: November 7th
October 2013 Board: November 19th
October 2012 Board: October 24th
October 2011 Board: October 14th

trustdan
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Re: Military Law

Postby trustdan » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:17 pm

usfvictor wrote:Since we are waiting, I added to the list that was posted before the last October board. Below are when the results for AF DAP were released.

October 2015 Board: October 30th
October 2014 Board: November 7th
October 2013 Board: November 19th
October 2012 Board: October 24th
October 2011 Board: October 14th


Any word on the corresponding deadlines for those? 8)

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livefromannarbor
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Re: Military Law

Postby livefromannarbor » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:21 pm

usfvictor wrote:Since we are waiting, I added to the list that was posted before the last October board. Below are when the results for AF DAP were released.

October 2015 Board: October 30th
October 2014 Board: November 7th
October 2013 Board: November 19th
October 2012 Board: October 24th
October 2011 Board: October 14th


Because I was curious, I looked up what days of the week releases have occurred:

October 2015 Board: October 30th - Friday
October 2014 Board: November 7th - Friday
October 2013 Board: November 19th - Tuesday
October 2012 Board: October 24th - Wednesday
October 2011 Board: October 14th - Friday

w7ldcard
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Re: Military Law

Postby w7ldcard » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:59 pm

livefromannarbor wrote:
usfvictor wrote:Since we are waiting, I added to the list that was posted before the last October board. Below are when the results for AF DAP were released.

October 2015 Board: October 30th
October 2014 Board: November 7th
October 2013 Board: November 19th
October 2012 Board: October 24th
October 2011 Board: October 14th


Because I was curious, I looked up what days of the week releases have occurred:

October 2015 Board: October 30th - Friday
October 2014 Board: November 7th - Friday
October 2013 Board: November 19th - Tuesday
October 2012 Board: October 24th - Wednesday
October 2011 Board: October 14th - Friday


So this Friday has a good chance

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livefromannarbor
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Re: Military Law

Postby livefromannarbor » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:05 pm

w7ldcard wrote:
livefromannarbor wrote:
Because I was curious, I looked up what days of the week releases have occurred:

October 2015 Board: October 30th - Friday
October 2014 Board: November 7th - Friday
October 2013 Board: November 19th - Tuesday
October 2012 Board: October 24th - Wednesday
October 2011 Board: October 14th - Friday


So this Friday has a good chance


I'd say I'm not getting my hopes up because we really have no way of knowing, but let's be real: hopes = up.
(Though honestly I refresh this page everyday now, waiting for someone to say the calls have started, like I refreshed status checkers while waiting for law school admissions results, so I'm probably definitely not the best judge of timing.)

Kahlo
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kahlo » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:18 pm

livefromannarbor wrote:
w7ldcard wrote:
livefromannarbor wrote:
Because I was curious, I looked up what days of the week releases have occurred:

October 2015 Board: October 30th - Friday
October 2014 Board: November 7th - Friday
October 2013 Board: November 19th - Tuesday
October 2012 Board: October 24th - Wednesday
October 2011 Board: October 14th - Friday


So this Friday has a good chance


I'd say I'm not getting my hopes up because we really have no way of knowing, but let's be real: hopes = up.
(Though honestly I refresh this page everyday now, waiting for someone to say the calls have started, like I refreshed status checkers while waiting for law school admissions results, so I'm probably definitely not the best judge of timing.)


Same boat over here.

cgorms21
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Re: Military Law

Postby cgorms21 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:23 pm

Also anxiously waiting the Oct results. Just wanted to pick everyone's brain real quick and sorry if this was previously discussed. If we are not selected and reapply for the December board, what are everyones' thoughts about the possibility of interviewing again with the same Lt. Col. I am can see the positives and negatives. I feel it could be good that to show your desire to get JAG but on the downside if not much has changed in your application packet and your interviewer remembers you I feel like it may be tough to sell yourself in an effective manner.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:32 pm

You don't have to redo an interview for the December board. My SJA told me all you have to do is reply yes if you want to get submitted for December but that's it.

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livefromannarbor
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Re: Military Law

Postby livefromannarbor » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:47 pm

cgorms21 wrote:Also anxiously waiting the Oct results. Just wanted to pick everyone's brain real quick and sorry if this was previously discussed. If we are not selected and reapply for the December board, what are everyones' thoughts about the possibility of interviewing again with the same Lt. Col. I am can see the positives and negatives. I feel it could be good that to show your desire to get JAG but on the downside if not much has changed in your application packet and your interviewer remembers you I feel like it may be tough to sell yourself in an effective manner.


Anonymous User wrote:You don't have to redo an interview for the December board. My SJA told me all you have to do is reply yes if you want to get submitted for December but that's it.


This. I don't see any reason that you'd redo your interview unless your application changed and you wanted your interviewer to highlight something in their interview report. The reapplication itself shows that you're interested.

cgorms21
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Re: Military Law

Postby cgorms21 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:02 am

Awesome, that seems much more efficient

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:04 am

If your interview is less than 6(?) months old, then you can choose to do another interview or use the same one. If you killed the first interview, then just use the same one. If you feel like you bombed it, then you should do another one. If there's a different base nearby, then you can interview with a different SJA.

phorkedprocess
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Re: Military Law

Postby phorkedprocess » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:If your interview is less than 6(?) months old, then you can choose to do another interview or use the same one. If you killed the first interview, then just use the same one. If you feel like you bombed it, then you should do another one. If there's a different base nearby, then you can interview with a different SJA.


AF JAG here. I wanted to echo this. If you only graded average on the interview, you have basically no shot on the second application (or any future applications) - gotta pull down those high marks. The problem is knowing what your score was. If you weren't selected, and aren't 100% sure that you got a MUST SELECT, I strongly recommend reaching out to one of the Captains where you interviewed and seeing if they can check your interview score. If you got the top grade, great, just ride it out and you'll be fine (at my last base we had like 4 MUST SELECTs and all but one got picked up at their first board - the gal who missed out got picked up at her second board). If not, you should strongly consider interviewing at a different base and taking a fresh stab. Every SJA is different.

usfvictor
Posts: 153
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Re: Military Law

Postby usfvictor » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:22 am

phorkedprocess wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If your interview is less than 6(?) months old, then you can choose to do another interview or use the same one. If you killed the first interview, then just use the same one. If you feel like you bombed it, then you should do another one. If there's a different base nearby, then you can interview with a different SJA.


AF JAG here. I wanted to echo this. If you only graded average on the interview, you have basically no shot on the second application (or any future applications) - gotta pull down those high marks. The problem is knowing what your score was. If you weren't selected, and aren't 100% sure that you got a MUST SELECT, I strongly recommend reaching out to one of the Captains where you interviewed and seeing if they can check your interview score. If you got the top grade, great, just ride it out and you'll be fine (at my last base we had like 4 MUST SELECTs and all but one got picked up at their first board - the gal who missed out got picked up at her second board). If not, you should strongly consider interviewing at a different base and taking a fresh stab. Every SJA is different.



That's good to know. I was curious how interviewees were ranked. So its MUST SELECT, SELECT(?), NON SELECT(?) ?

Kahlo
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kahlo » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:44 pm

phorkedprocess wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If your interview is less than 6(?) months old, then you can choose to do another interview or use the same one. If you killed the first interview, then just use the same one. If you feel like you bombed it, then you should do another one. If there's a different base nearby, then you can interview with a different SJA.


AF JAG here. I wanted to echo this. If you only graded average on the interview, you have basically no shot on the second application (or any future applications) - gotta pull down those high marks. The problem is knowing what your score was. If you weren't selected, and aren't 100% sure that you got a MUST SELECT, I strongly recommend reaching out to one of the Captains where you interviewed and seeing if they can check your interview score. If you got the top grade, great, just ride it out and you'll be fine (at my last base we had like 4 MUST SELECTs and all but one got picked up at their first board - the gal who missed out got picked up at her second board). If not, you should strongly consider interviewing at a different base and taking a fresh stab. Every SJA is different.


This sounds a lot like the way the Navy's promotion system works. Thanks for the advice. That's really helpful to know.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:36 am

phorkedprocess wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If your interview is less than 6(?) months old, then you can choose to do another interview or use the same one. If you killed the first interview, then just use the same one. If you feel like you bombed it, then you should do another one. If there's a different base nearby, then you can interview with a different SJA.


AF JAG here. I wanted to echo this. If you only graded average on the interview, you have basically no shot on the second application (or any future applications) - gotta pull down those high marks. The problem is knowing what your score was. If you weren't selected, and aren't 100% sure that you got a MUST SELECT, I strongly recommend reaching out to one of the Captains where you interviewed and seeing if they can check your interview score. If you got the top grade, great, just ride it out and you'll be fine (at my last base we had like 4 MUST SELECTs and all but one got picked up at their first board - the gal who missed out got picked up at her second board). If not, you should strongly consider interviewing at a different base and taking a fresh stab. Every SJA is different.

Yes, definitely do what you can to get feedback by starting with the Captains. If there is something you can improve upon before the next interview, do it and go back to interview. Also try to get a feel for whether it might be worth trying your luck with a different interviewer (i.e., interviewing at another base). If the feedback is that you got the best possible recommendation and they're at a loss for why you didn't get picked up, then that's probably when you want to re-apply with the same interview.

One of my SJAs told me from her experience with the board that they grade the SJAs' recommendations on a curve. So if one SJA is giving out the top recommendations like candy, the board will essentially de-value those to an extent. That process could change or not be weighted that much, so ymmv.

usfvictor
Posts: 153
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Re: Military Law

Postby usfvictor » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:57 am

howell wrote:
phorkedprocess wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If your interview is less than 6(?) months old, then you can choose to do another interview or use the same one. If you killed the first interview, then just use the same one. If you feel like you bombed it, then you should do another one. If there's a different base nearby, then you can interview with a different SJA.


AF JAG here. I wanted to echo this. If you only graded average on the interview, you have basically no shot on the second application (or any future applications) - gotta pull down those high marks. The problem is knowing what your score was. If you weren't selected, and aren't 100% sure that you got a MUST SELECT, I strongly recommend reaching out to one of the Captains where you interviewed and seeing if they can check your interview score. If you got the top grade, great, just ride it out and you'll be fine (at my last base we had like 4 MUST SELECTs and all but one got picked up at their first board - the gal who missed out got picked up at her second board). If not, you should strongly consider interviewing at a different base and taking a fresh stab. Every SJA is different.

Yes, definitely do what you can to get feedback by starting with the Captains. If there is something you can improve upon before the next interview, do it and go back to interview. Also try to get a feel for whether it might be worth trying your luck with a different interviewer (i.e., interviewing at another base). If the feedback is that you got the best possible recommendation and they're at a loss for why you didn't get picked up, then that's probably when you want to re-apply with the same interview.

One of my SJAs told me from her experience with the board that they grade the SJAs' recommendations on a curve. So if one SJA is giving out the top recommendations like candy, the board will essentially de-value those to an extent. That process could change or not be weighted that much, so ymmv.



So i can email a Captain and ask? Is that fairly common?

phorkedprocess
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Re: Military Law

Postby phorkedprocess » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:03 am

usfvictor wrote:That's good to know. I was curious how interviewees were ranked. So its MUST SELECT, SELECT(?), NON SELECT(?) ?


I haven't worked in Accessions for a while but from what I remember it's MUST SELECT, SELECT, AVERAGE, BELOW AVERAGE, and NON SELECT or something along those lines. When an SJA has more than one MUST SELECT from a given board cycle they will often write in which is their #1, #2, etc. I've only ever seen our MUST SELECT candidates get picked up - but I've also never seen a MUST SELECT NOT get picked up (at least by their second try).

usfvictor
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Re: Military Law

Postby usfvictor » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

phorkedprocess wrote:
usfvictor wrote:That's good to know. I was curious how interviewees were ranked. So its MUST SELECT, SELECT(?), NON SELECT(?) ?


I haven't worked in Accessions for a while but from what I remember it's MUST SELECT, SELECT, AVERAGE, BELOW AVERAGE, and NON SELECT or something along those lines. When an SJA has more than one MUST SELECT from a given board cycle they will often write in which is their #1, #2, etc. I've only ever seen our MUST SELECT candidates get picked up - but I've also never seen a MUST SELECT NOT get picked up (at least by their second try).


Thanks for the information. Here's hoping I was a MUST SELECT.

usfvictor
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Re: Military Law

Postby usfvictor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:03 am

Here's hoping today is the day for AF DAP.




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