Military Law

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Military Law

Postby bsktbll28082 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:32 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:Once you receive your commission, it is a lot tougher to walk away. However, prior to that, you can back out pretty easily.


At what point in the process do you 'receive' it? There's still MEPS and other things before you officially start training.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:24 pm

You need to pass MEPS, Security and other incidentals before they will offer you a commission. This usually takes from 6 weeks to a few months after being offered a tentative acceptance (PROREC in Navy talk).

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RaleighStClair
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Re: Military Law

Postby RaleighStClair » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:01 pm

Hey all,

2015 grad here. Passed bar, but I still don't have a job. I'm interested in joining either the Navy or Army Reserve JAG Corps. This is for a number of reasons: to supplement my income of course, but primarily to serve.

I am very ignorant on the process though. I understand there are no "direct appointments" in the Navy Reserve JAG. What does this mean? Does that foreclose me from joining? I have no military history.

Also, how useful are connections when applying for reserve positions? I imagine they are not very relevant, but I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks in advance.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:09 pm

No direct appointment means that you cannot directly join the Navy JAG as a reservist. You have to serve the minimum active duty obligation, typically 4 years, before you can go into the Reserves.

jdco243
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Re: Military Law

Postby jdco243 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:03 pm

So I am in the process of building a USAF JAG Corps application. I attempted to enlist in 2008, but was medically DQ'd before I even went to MEPS. I never went to see my recruiter after that DQ, so I never really saw the paperwork associated with the DQ, in terms of the exact reason they DQ'd me. I have some suspicions, obviously, but nothing 100% clear. And, apparently, a record or archive of that entire process no longer exists. I called the MEPS station that reviewed my paperwork, and they directed me to the recruiter's office. I called the recruiter's office, and apparently they had shut down for three years, and just now reopened, so they don't have an archive of it either. Alas.

Has anybody else tried to enlist, receive a DQ, then successfully make it in JAG via DAP? I spoke with a JAG recruiter, and they more or less said "go through the process and we will see," but I am just looking for more information about this/trying to gauge my success. I mean, either way, I'm going to try until they say "No," but you all know what the hunger for information is like.

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usn26
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Re: Military Law

Postby usn26 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:00 pm

jdco243 wrote:Has anybody else tried to enlist, receive a DQ, then successfully make it in JAG via DAP? I spoke with a JAG recruiter, and they more or less said "go through the process and we will see," but I am just looking for more information about this/trying to gauge my success. I mean, either way, I'm going to try until they say "No," but you all know what the hunger for information is like.


I was DQ'd from enlisting in high school before eventually making it into OCS after college.

There doesn't seem to be a paper trail so you're off the hook there. If so, then you just need to worry about whether you're PQ. If you search around online I'm sure you can find a copy of a MEPS medical pre-screen of some kind. If you just go through that and see what you check "YES" to you'll narrow the list of suspects pretty quickly. I believe the USAF medical standards are published online (the Navy's certainly are), so if you want a sense of whether or not you'd have a shot you could talk to a doctor to see if you have any of the problematic conditions. No way to tell what the services will do, but it'd give you sense of what you're up against.

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skylaws
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Re: Military Law

Postby skylaws » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:45 pm

jdco243 wrote:So I am in the process of building a USAF JAG Corps application. I attempted to enlist in 2008, but was medically DQ'd before I even went to MEPS. I never went to see my recruiter after that DQ, so I never really saw the paperwork associated with the DQ, in terms of the exact reason they DQ'd me. I have some suspicions, obviously, but nothing 100% clear. And, apparently, a record or archive of that entire process no longer exists. I called the MEPS station that reviewed my paperwork, and they directed me to the recruiter's office. I called the recruiter's office, and apparently they had shut down for three years, and just now reopened, so they don't have an archive of it either. Alas.

Has anybody else tried to enlist, receive a DQ, then successfully make it in JAG via DAP? I spoke with a JAG recruiter, and they more or less said "go through the process and we will see," but I am just looking for more information about this/trying to gauge my success. I mean, either way, I'm going to try until they say "No," but you all know what the hunger for information is like.


Also note that there are waivers for medical conditions, so even if you find something on a list online that makes you think you will be disqualified, its still worth applying. Practically everyone I know who was accepted into any branch had to get one for something - the downside of being older and creakier by the time we apply, I guess, as compared to springy 18 year olds.

afangel804
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Re: Military Law

Postby afangel804 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:11 pm

Hello all--I've mostly been a lurker these past couple years. As I get closer to leaving for COT, I want to post about my experience so others going through the Air Force process can have something else to reference.

Biographical info can be found in my previous posts. I am prior service so that altered my timeline a bit because of medical records.

I applied to the GLP in my 1L year and was not selected. I applied for Direct Appointment the fall of my 3L year (October 2014 board, I think) and was selected. Rejection e-mails and selection calls started going out in the morning (I was following this board very closely!) and I hadn't heard anything. I was getting really nervous and then I got a phone call in the afternoon from my interviewing SJA (Friday, November 7, if I am remembering correctly).

As soon as I received my selection packet, I scheduled my phone interview to go over medical paperwork in preparation for MEPS. This is where my process will probably differ from most. Because I am prior service, I had to deal with the VA to get some medical records--a process that would end up taking 9+ months and 2 phone calls from my congressman. Everyone's medical process will be different. The best advice I can give is to follow the liaison's instructions. I graduated in May '15, took the July bar, and received a passing result in September. My timeline would have been a lot quicker, but I was still awaiting my VA medical records. I finally received records and faxed the applicable records to the liaison who sent them to MEPS. It took about a month and a week from me sending my records until getting a MEPS date. I had a paper that said you must go to MEPS within 30 days of sending records, but my appointment was outside of the 30 day window and everything was fine.

I went to MEPS Nov. 5th and was medically cleared. I faxed the medical clearance paperwork to my liaison that day and received the phone call with my assignment offer on November 16. I accepted it (of course) and was told I would be getting a phone call in about a week with follow-up info. I got an e-mail exactly a week later telling me to be on the lookout for a packet from JAX within a couple weeks. Exactly 2 weeks from that e-mail (today) I got another e-mail with my orders and Oath of Office paperwork. Because of the holiday, she did not want to make me wait to receive the papers in the mail. Tomorrow I will go do my Oath of Office and FedEx the paperwork to the liaison. I leave for the January COT class on the 11th.

If anyone has more specific questions about the process, feel free to private message me!

jdco243
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Re: Military Law

Postby jdco243 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:16 pm

usn26 wrote:
jdco243 wrote:Has anybody else tried to enlist, receive a DQ, then successfully make it in JAG via DAP? I spoke with a JAG recruiter, and they more or less said "go through the process and we will see," but I am just looking for more information about this/trying to gauge my success. I mean, either way, I'm going to try until they say "No," but you all know what the hunger for information is like.


I was DQ'd from enlisting in high school before eventually making it into OCS after college.

There doesn't seem to be a paper trail so you're off the hook there. If so, then you just need to worry about whether you're PQ. If you search around online I'm sure you can find a copy of a MEPS medical pre-screen of some kind. If you just go through that and see what you check "YES" to you'll narrow the list of suspects pretty quickly. I believe the USAF medical standards are published online (the Navy's certainly are), so if you want a sense of whether or not you'd have a shot you could talk to a doctor to see if you have any of the problematic conditions. No way to tell what the services will do, but it'd give you sense of what you're up against.


I have a cerebrospinal fluid shunt. In DODI 6130.03 27.p., it lists, as "grounds for rejection for military service," "[c]urrent or history of central nervous system shunts of all kinds," which I guess applies to CSF shunts. However, the only place that I see a specific mention of a CSF shunt is AFI 48-123 6.44.23.6.1.4 , which says that CSF shunts are not waiverable for Flying Classes II and III. When I attempted to enlist previously, I was attempting to enlist as an Aircraft Loadmaster, which is Flying Class III, so that's clearly an unwaiverable condition for that.

I guess what I really want to find are the guidelines for issuance of waivers, which I cannot find.

I mean, I know it's an uphill battle, but I don't think I am being naive if I think there is at least a little wiggle room and an opportunity to convince the USAF to give me a waiver. In 2008, I was only 5 years removed from the surgery involving the shunt, so maybe now that I am 13 years removed with zero issues, they will be more willing to take a look at me.

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SRyder105
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Re: Military Law

Postby SRyder105 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:18 pm

So from my digging on this site (and I could be wrong, since they seemed like approximate timings), these were the relative dates that AF DA December Board Results were delivered:

December 18, 2009
Early-mid January, 2011
December 21, 2011
December 21, 2012
January 2, 2014
January 20, 2015

Anyone wondering if results might be out before Christmas? Since the board started meeting on the 6th?

hennenr
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Re: Military Law

Postby hennenr » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:11 pm

I heard the board met on the 7th and would meet for two days. I would be surprised if we heard before Christmas.

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SRyder105
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Re: Military Law

Postby SRyder105 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:24 am

hennenr wrote:I heard the board met on the 7th and would meet for two days. I would be surprised if we heard before Christmas.


Here's to hoping, at least!

jdco243
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Re: Military Law

Postby jdco243 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:00 pm

Are there any readers here that would agree to read my motivational statement and offer feedback? I would prefer to not post it in the thread, but to e-mail it to somebody for review.

Randomoldguy
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Re: Military Law

Postby Randomoldguy » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:25 pm

Jdco, you have a pm.

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SRyder105
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Re: Military Law

Postby SRyder105 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:55 pm

Could current AF JAG officers or anyone else that would know about AF bases weigh in on this:

There are several bases available to JAG officers and that you can add to your dream sheet. Does anyone know which bases have the largest population of JAG officers? Will that always correspond to the largest physical bases (i.e. Bragg) or are there "random" large pockets of JAG officers in some smaller bases? Is anyone aware of resources that could help to differentiate the bases by type of law most practiced?

Just trying to make informed decisions and, not having military history myself (apart from family members), everything will help. I'm just curious and while weeding through all of the pages of this resource, I didn't see much that answered this.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:13 pm

SRyder105 wrote:Could current AF JAG officers or anyone else that would know about AF bases weigh in on this:

There are several bases available to JAG officers and that you can add to your dream sheet. Does anyone know which bases have the largest population of JAG officers? Will that always correspond to the largest physical bases (i.e. Bragg) or are there "random" large pockets of JAG officers in some smaller bases? Is anyone aware of resources that could help to differentiate the bases by type of law most practiced?

Just trying to make informed decisions and, not having military history myself (apart from family members), everything will help. I'm just curious and while weeding through all of the pages of this resource, I didn't see much that answered this.


Basically every Air Force Base is available to JAGs - there will always be a base legal office and some bases have multiple levels of command that each have their own legal office (NAF, MAJCOM, UCC, etc). Anywhere there is an Air Force commander, there will be a JAG advising him/her. There are some specialty assignments that will not be available to junior JAGs but that is not worth digging into for the purposes of your question.

Generally, the larger the base, the larger the legal office. This can vary - AFMC bases will generally be large but tend to have a higher civilian attorney concentration. Other MAJCOMs will just have a lot of JAGs to varying degrees - ACC, AFSOC, AMC, USAFE, PACAF. There are a lot of previous discussions talking about bases that are the best for those want a lot of trial experience early on - you can search those out.

I'm not sure why you are concerned where there are more JAGs - the most important question is what type of law is most represented at any particular base and what you hope to do in the Air Force. Do you want trials? Environmental? Labor? Some bases will be great for X but not for Y.

Bragg, by the way, is an Army post.

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SRyder105
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Re: Military Law

Postby SRyder105 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:49 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
SRyder105 wrote:Could current AF JAG officers or anyone else that would know about AF bases weigh in on this:

There are several bases available to JAG officers and that you can add to your dream sheet. Does anyone know which bases have the largest population of JAG officers? Will that always correspond to the largest physical bases (i.e. Bragg) or are there "random" large pockets of JAG officers in some smaller bases? Is anyone aware of resources that could help to differentiate the bases by type of law most practiced?

Just trying to make informed decisions and, not having military history myself (apart from family members), everything will help. I'm just curious and while weeding through all of the pages of this resource, I didn't see much that answered this.


Basically every Air Force Base is available to JAGs - there will always be a base legal office and some bases have multiple levels of command that each have their own legal office (NAF, MAJCOM, UCC, etc). Anywhere there is an Air Force commander, there will be a JAG advising him/her. There are some specialty assignments that will not be available to junior JAGs but that is not worth digging into for the purposes of your question.

Generally, the larger the base, the larger the legal office. This can vary - AFMC bases will generally be large but tend to have a higher civilian attorney concentration. Other MAJCOMs will just have a lot of JAGs to varying degrees - ACC, AFSOC, AMC, USAFE, PACAF. There are a lot of previous discussions talking about bases that are the best for those want a lot of trial experience early on - you can search those out.

I'm not sure why you are concerned where there are more JAGs - the most important question is what type of law is most represented at any particular base and what you hope to do in the Air Force. Do you want trials? Environmental? Labor? Some bases will be great for X but not for Y.

Bragg, by the way, is an Army post.


Sorry, I was referring to the Pope Army Air Field, not Fort Bragg. I've been doing trials for the last 3 years as a private attorney (and formerly a prosecutor with the DA's office), so continued trial experience would be great? I'm trying to hone in on the best bases for military justice, litigation and operations law. Location is less of a concern compared to the type of work offered. I suppose I was concerned with where there were more JAGs because I had thought that more JAGs at a base = more specialization? (like comparing a large civilian law firm to a solo practitioner firm). I may be misguided there though.

I've been going through each of the pages thoroughly but am only about 50 pages in or so. I also didn't know if base changes have also altered where JAGs could be sent. (I was reading that bases like Mildenhall, among other European bases, being closed).

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:19 pm

SRyder105 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
SRyder105 wrote:Could current AF JAG officers or anyone else that would know about AF bases weigh in on this:

There are several bases available to JAG officers and that you can add to your dream sheet. Does anyone know which bases have the largest population of JAG officers? Will that always correspond to the largest physical bases (i.e. Bragg) or are there "random" large pockets of JAG officers in some smaller bases? Is anyone aware of resources that could help to differentiate the bases by type of law most practiced?

Just trying to make informed decisions and, not having military history myself (apart from family members), everything will help. I'm just curious and while weeding through all of the pages of this resource, I didn't see much that answered this.


Basically every Air Force Base is available to JAGs - there will always be a base legal office and some bases have multiple levels of command that each have their own legal office (NAF, MAJCOM, UCC, etc). Anywhere there is an Air Force commander, there will be a JAG advising him/her. There are some specialty assignments that will not be available to junior JAGs but that is not worth digging into for the purposes of your question.

Generally, the larger the base, the larger the legal office. This can vary - AFMC bases will generally be large but tend to have a higher civilian attorney concentration. Other MAJCOMs will just have a lot of JAGs to varying degrees - ACC, AFSOC, AMC, USAFE, PACAF. There are a lot of previous discussions talking about bases that are the best for those want a lot of trial experience early on - you can search those out.

I'm not sure why you are concerned where there are more JAGs - the most important question is what type of law is most represented at any particular base and what you hope to do in the Air Force. Do you want trials? Environmental? Labor? Some bases will be great for X but not for Y.

Bragg, by the way, is an Army post.


Sorry, I was referring to the Pope Army Air Field, not Fort Bragg. I've been doing trials for the last 3 years as a private attorney (and formerly a prosecutor with the DA's office), so continued trial experience would be great? I'm trying to hone in on the best bases for military justice, litigation and operations law. Location is less of a concern compared to the type of work offered. I suppose I was concerned with where there were more JAGs because I had thought that more JAGs at a base = more specialization? (like comparing a large civilian law firm to a solo practitioner firm). I may be misguided there though.

I've been going through each of the pages thoroughly but am only about 50 pages in or so. I also didn't know if base changes have also altered where JAGs could be sent. (I was reading that bases like Mildenhall, among other European bases, being closed).


The Air Force keeps trying to close Pope. Gotta free up more dollars for the still not operational F-35. While Bragg is a huge Army installation, Pope is not a likely place for a junior JAG and is also not large from a JA perspective.

If you want to do courts, focus on places that have a lot of planes. Basically any MAJCOM except AFMC, Space, and AETC (though Lackland is a massive legal office that historically has a lot of military justice). Keep digging through the thread and there are a few discussions on the best justice bases. As a general rule of thumb, if there is an active flight line, you should have enough courts to go around.

If you want to really do operations law, AFSOC is really the only game in town. At the junior level, AFSOC means either Hurlburt, which is awesome, or Cannon, which is arguably the single worst location in the entire Air Force. I spent two very long and miserable years at Cannon. I would be careful in pursuing ops law - it sounds really cool but the Air Force does not appreciate/reward ops law as much as other specialties, IMHO. I have known of some senior leadership to consider ops more the province of the Army. Depending on your professional goals, ops law does not really translate well into a civilian job down the line either - trial experience is worth its weight in gold on the outside - ops, not so much. There are opportunities for sure, but it is just a very different legal market and focus than a separating Senior Trial Counsel would have.

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SRyder105
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Re: Military Law

Postby SRyder105 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:56 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
SRyder105 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
SRyder105 wrote:Could current AF JAG officers or anyone else that would know about AF bases weigh in on this:

There are several bases available to JAG officers and that you can add to your dream sheet. Does anyone know which bases have the largest population of JAG officers? Will that always correspond to the largest physical bases (i.e. Bragg) or are there "random" large pockets of JAG officers in some smaller bases? Is anyone aware of resources that could help to differentiate the bases by type of law most practiced?

Just trying to make informed decisions and, not having military history myself (apart from family members), everything will help. I'm just curious and while weeding through all of the pages of this resource, I didn't see much that answered this.


Basically every Air Force Base is available to JAGs - there will always be a base legal office and some bases have multiple levels of command that each have their own legal office (NAF, MAJCOM, UCC, etc). Anywhere there is an Air Force commander, there will be a JAG advising him/her. There are some specialty assignments that will not be available to junior JAGs but that is not worth digging into for the purposes of your question.

Generally, the larger the base, the larger the legal office. This can vary - AFMC bases will generally be large but tend to have a higher civilian attorney concentration. Other MAJCOMs will just have a lot of JAGs to varying degrees - ACC, AFSOC, AMC, USAFE, PACAF. There are a lot of previous discussions talking about bases that are the best for those want a lot of trial experience early on - you can search those out.

I'm not sure why you are concerned where there are more JAGs - the most important question is what type of law is most represented at any particular base and what you hope to do in the Air Force. Do you want trials? Environmental? Labor? Some bases will be great for X but not for Y.

Bragg, by the way, is an Army post.


Sorry, I was referring to the Pope Army Air Field, not Fort Bragg. I've been doing trials for the last 3 years as a private attorney (and formerly a prosecutor with the DA's office), so continued trial experience would be great? I'm trying to hone in on the best bases for military justice, litigation and operations law. Location is less of a concern compared to the type of work offered. I suppose I was concerned with where there were more JAGs because I had thought that more JAGs at a base = more specialization? (like comparing a large civilian law firm to a solo practitioner firm). I may be misguided there though.

I've been going through each of the pages thoroughly but am only about 50 pages in or so. I also didn't know if base changes have also altered where JAGs could be sent. (I was reading that bases like Mildenhall, among other European bases, being closed).


The Air Force keeps trying to close Pope. Gotta free up more dollars for the still not operational F-35. While Bragg is a huge Army installation, Pope is not a likely place for a junior JAG and is also not large from a JA perspective.

If you want to do courts, focus on places that have a lot of planes. Basically any MAJCOM except AFMC, Space, and AETC (though Lackland is a massive legal office that historically has a lot of military justice). Keep digging through the thread and there are a few discussions on the best justice bases. As a general rule of thumb, if there is an active flight line, you should have enough courts to go around.

If you want to really do operations law, AFSOC is really the only game in town. At the junior level, AFSOC means either Hurlburt, which is awesome, or Cannon, which is arguably the single worst location in the entire Air Force. I spent two very long and miserable years at Cannon. I would be careful in pursuing ops law - it sounds really cool but the Air Force does not appreciate/reward ops law as much as other specialties, IMHO. I have known of some senior leadership to consider ops more the province of the Army. Depending on your professional goals, ops law does not really translate well into a civilian job down the line either - trial experience is worth its weight in gold on the outside - ops, not so much. There are opportunities for sure, but it is just a very different legal market and focus than a separating Senior Trial Counsel would have.


Master Bateman- as always, your breadth of knowledge on these subjects is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your quick response and advice on these matters. I'll continue taking the time to read through the remaining pages of this forum!

I indicated military justice and litigation in priority on the dream sheet when I submitted my application, but ops law was #3 or #4. I'm not sure how popular a pick it is among other aspiring JAGS, but it had originally appealed to me. If accepted, I'd love to be at the service of the AF as long as they'll have me, so separating and going back to civilian work is less of a concern when it comes to work. The grass is no greener on the other side. I've already done the BigLaw experience, small firms, civilian government and owned my own firm. My best experience is definitely the 2L internship I had with the Navy (even though I'd much prefer to go AF), with the work not inhibited by meeting the bottom line of finances and bills. That said, with reshaping and etc, who knows if positions will always be available. My brother-in-law was a captain with the AF JAG before the reshaping and 2 weeks after POSing to Japan, he claims that he was discharged without warning. I recognize that this job isn't for safety and comfort, even though the AF really takes care of you and your family.

At this point, I'm just chomping at the bit and waiting for results. With this only being the first round of applications, I understand it can take a while (and perhaps several rounds of applications), but taking into account how the interview went and what my SJA has disclosed thus far, I'm really crossing my fingers.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:00 pm

So I am having a bit of a conundrum. I'm at somewhat of a crossroads, and I am not sure which direction to go. Maybe someone here may have a perspective that I have not already considered.

Here is the situation. I was selected for Jag as a 2L, I won't say which branch for anonymity. I went through MEPS, and I accepted a commission. I'm currently a 3L. Another job opportunity has come up, through a family connection. It is with in house counsel of a national insurance company. Starting salary for the first year is approximately $100,000 with benefits, including relocation expenses, and some loan repayment. After the first year the pay rises to approximately 180,000. The most senior attorney in the office makes around $500,000 a year. So the pay ceiling is substantial.

Under normal circumstances I would not consider leaving Jag. But the pay with this job is so much it is hard not to consider pursuing it. The cons of the job are that the location is not optimal, it is in a colder less desirable part of the country. Also the job is in insurance law, and I am told there will be little courtroom exposure for some time. It is mostly research and assuring compliance with insurance regulation.

The primary pro is certainly the money. I'm not exactly in love with the idea of being a trial lawyer, so research doesn't scare me. The rise in pay offsets the loans that I could possibly get paid under PSLF. My student loans are substantial, around $160,000.

This decision will majorly effect not only my future, but my families. The ramifications could be enormous and I am not sure what to do. I've wanted Jag since I started law school. I love the military, although I was already in active service before law school. So I've done my time so to speak. I wouldn't feel bad about not doing more time.


Questions:

(1) can I even get out of Jag at this point? I'm a 3L. What would that process look like?


(2) What would you do? What things in this equation would you consider?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I am having a bit of a conundrum. I'm at somewhat of a crossroads, and I am not sure which direction to go. Maybe someone here may have a perspective that I have not already considered.

Here is the situation. I was selected for Jag as a 2L, I won't say which branch for anonymity. I went through MEPS, and I accepted a commission. I'm currently a 3L. Another job opportunity has come up, through a family connection. It is with in house counsel of a national insurance company. Starting salary for the first year is approximately $100,000 with benefits, including relocation expenses, and some loan repayment. After the first year the pay rises to approximately 180,000. The most senior attorney in the office makes around $500,000 a year. So the pay ceiling is substantial.

Under normal circumstances I would not consider leaving Jag. But the pay with this job is so much it is hard not to consider pursuing it. The cons of the job are that the location is not optimal, it is in a colder less desirable part of the country. Also the job is in insurance law, and I am told there will be little courtroom exposure for some time. It is mostly research and assuring compliance with insurance regulation.

The primary pro is certainly the money. I'm not exactly in love with the idea of being a trial lawyer, so research doesn't scare me. The rise in pay offsets the loans that I could possibly get paid under PSLF. My student loans are substantial, around $160,000.

This decision will majorly effect not only my future, but my families. The ramifications could be enormous and I am not sure what to do. I've wanted Jag since I started law school. I love the military, although I was already in active service before law school. So I've done my time so to speak. I wouldn't feel bad about not doing more time.


Questions:

(1) can I even get out of Jag at this point? I'm a 3L. What would that process look like?


(2) What would you do? What things in this equation would you consider?


I can't answer the first question - it is also pretty branch specific so I don't think anyone will be able to unless you want to disclose it.

As to the second, the differences between the two paths are so stark that you really need to evaluate what you actually want with your career in life. Prior service is a plus as you at least know what you would be going into if you stick on the officer path.

The money is always tempting. I struggled this in a sense when I went Reserves between a Fed job or at a big DC law firm. That said, with friends making a lot more than me in the BigLaw and BigFinance worlds, there are a lot of ways to be miserable in that life and not enjoy that money. There are also plenty of folks that find some sort of balance and make it work. For me, it was a lot of variables - ability to continue as a reservist, work/life balance, and the type of work I would be doing -- defending greedy/corrupt rich white collar types did not exactly get me excited. At the same time, I have friends that separated and jumped to Vault 100 firms and have been very successful. All depends on what makes you tick and what you decide to prioritize

As you likely already know, military life is not without its issues. You'll be moving, not have as much control over your career path, etc. You will also eventually have to cross the civilian employment bridge at some point, be it at separation or retirement. There have been plenty of discussions on this thread about what comes after JAG - some folks transition seamlessly thanks to their experience and specialization while in uniform. Other people really struggle. Job security is also something to consider. Obviously in the private sector you are at will. That said, at least in the Air Force, the JAG Corps of decades past where if you were more or less set for O-5 if you checked the boxes is gone. The Air Force force shaped tons of JAGs last year only to find they were now (predictably) critically undermanned; they are now inviting reservists and separated folks to come back into active duty in a ridiculous attempt to stem the bleeding.

Create a venn diagram or a pro/con list and see where you come out. When you are making a major purchase like a car, you may have 6 things you really want (new model, brand name, safety, bells/whistles, etc) - for most of us, we will end up having to settle for only getting 3-4 of those. You can get the BMW, but it will have to be an entry level certified pre-owned, or you can get the new Toyota fully loaded. Same sort of deciding what is more important needs to be done with you and your family.

Good luck.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:08 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

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SRyder105
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:39 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby SRyder105 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:43 am

ARMY JAG IS POSTING ITS LIST TOMORROW AFTERNOON (12/18/2015).

From the Army JAG recruiting Facebook page: "We're pleased to announce that the results of the Summer Internship Board and Active Duty Board will be released tomorrow afternoon, December 18th. Both lists (containing primary and alternate selections) will be posted on http://www.jagcnet.army.mil/jaro by late afternoon."

Good luck to all who are awaiting results!

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:35 am

Already received a call I was selected for Army 8)

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bsktbll28082
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:25 am

Re: Military Law

Postby bsktbll28082 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:39 am

Guys, list is up now. Congrats to all selected.




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