Military Law

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:05 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:It may be just me getting old and crusty but I feel the quality of the questions on this forum have gone down hill since this anonymous posting has been allowed. At the risk of making this like the sometimes hysterical "read the FAQ!" responses on my favorite Reddit pages, new folks need to read through all the previous posts. Yes, it will take a while. You will also go through years of collective wisdom and experience from a variety of different posters.


^bump

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:34 pm

Could Marines OCS count as officer training for another branch? For example, if a law student did OCS their 2L summer as part of the PLC law program, but declined their commission at the end of OCS, would that training "transfer over" if the applicant wanted to enter another branch of the military upon graduation, such as the Army Reserves?

jagnut
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Re: Military Law

Postby jagnut » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Could Marines OCS count as officer training for another branch? For example, if a law student did OCS their 2L summer as part of the PLC law program, but declined their commission at the end of OCS, would that training "transfer over" if the applicant wanted to enter another branch of the military upon graduation, such as the Army Reserves?


Not a chance

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Could Marines OCS count as officer training for another branch? For example, if a law student did OCS their 2L summer as part of the PLC law program, but declined their commission at the end of OCS, would that training "transfer over" if the applicant wanted to enter another branch of the military upon graduation, such as the Army Reserves?



Gut instinct answer is . . . no. Although, enlisted Marines can enter other branches without re-completing boot camp. But like everything else, the rules are different for officers.

Marine OCS and TBS will not teach how to be an officer in another branch. But maybe you could get lucky, an officer recruiter is probably your best resource.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:25 am

I'm with the others - OCS won't get you out of officer training in another service normally.

The good news is that it would all be downhill from there. Come to Air Force COT, where they make your bed for you. You will face 5 weeks of grueling training learning how to salute and march.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:36 am

I have no idea if this is still the case, but I think the Army used to have a transition course for officers from other services joining the Army. The theory was that you already understand the basic military stuff and are past all the boot-tastic screaming and motivational PT cadences. They basically just run through a gentleman's course where you learn Army-specific things you're probably not familiar with.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:Could Marines OCS count as officer training for another branch? For example, if a law student did OCS their 2L summer as part of the PLC law program, but declined their commission at the end of OCS, would that training "transfer over" if the applicant wanted to enter another branch of the military upon graduation, such as the Army Reserves?


Concur with the gaggle above.

I have had friends that were active officers with several years of experience transitioning into a different services (USAF/ANG into Navy JAGC/USMC) that were required to attend the respective officer candidate schools.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:58 am

Is there any place I can find a comprehensive list of disqualifying medical conditions for the Air Force?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:53 am

For AF JAG there are two entry programs: ROTC via GLP or OYCP and direct appointment. ROTC cadets need to be medically qualified via a DODMERB physical where they fill out a medical history questionnaire and then go to a DoD/DODMERB qualified doc and eye doc for exams. The information included on the DODMERB questionnaire is highly scrutinized against their list of dis-qualifying conditions or history of a condition. Then the doc will also forward the results of their physicals/exams and the DoD medical gods will either DQ, request remedials (additional records or tests), or Qualify.

The medical qualification for the direct appointment route is a physical at MEPS, which is an entirely militarized process consisting of the weirdest physical exam you'll ever have along with eye and hearing exams. I believe there is also a medical history questionnaire that is scrutinized, along with their litany of exams that day.

Even if a condition or history of a condition is on its face disqualifying, there are ways to request waivers where they'll potentially request medical records, request further examinations, and take a second look. People get waivers all the time, but it can be a timely, stressful and an unpredictable process.

Regarding your actual question: the only thing I could find was the list of DODMERB DQ codes with descriptions @ https://dodmerb.tricare.osd.mil/Disqual ... Codes.aspx
It's extremely laborious to sift through, but could be helpful. Be sure to recognize the difference between current condition and history of condition for certain maladies. I imagine that this is the same medical list that MEPS considers, but I don't know that to be a fact.

Advice: I would never suggest one lie on the medical questionnaire... don't lie. That being said, I've heard that what they don't know won't disqualify you, so be thoughtful when deciding to disclose some weird thing that happened one time when you were a youth. I've seen dumb things crush dreams, while others slipped through the cracks, completely healthy albeit, but perhaps a little more discretionary with disclosure of past medical issues. If it no longer ails you and is otherwise undetectable, perhaps consider your options... But tell the truth.

Thank you for providing this distraction during my tax law class.

mkephart
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Re: Military Law

Postby mkephart » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For AF JAG there are two entry programs: ROTC via GLP or OYCP and direct appointment. ROTC cadets need to be medically qualified via a DODMERB physical where they fill out a medical history questionnaire and then go to a DoD/DODMERB qualified doc and eye doc for exams. The information included on the DODMERB questionnaire is highly scrutinized against their list of dis-qualifying conditions or history of a condition. Then the doc will also forward the results of their physicals/exams and the DoD medical gods will either DQ, request remedials (additional records or tests), or Qualify.

The medical qualification for the direct appointment route is a physical at MEPS, which is an entirely militarized process consisting of the weirdest physical exam you'll ever have along with eye and hearing exams. I believe there is also a medical history questionnaire that is scrutinized, along with their litany of exams that day.

Even if a condition or history of a condition is on its face disqualifying, there are ways to request waivers where they'll potentially request medical records, request further examinations, and take a second look. People get waivers all the time, but it can be a timely, stressful and an unpredictable process.

Regarding your actual question: the only thing I could find was the list of DODMERB DQ codes with descriptions @ https://dodmerb.tricare.osd.mil/Disqual ... Codes.aspx
It's extremely laborious to sift through, but could be helpful. Be sure to recognize the difference between current condition and history of condition for certain maladies. I imagine that this is the same medical list that MEPS considers, but I don't know that to be a fact.

Advice: I would never suggest one lie on the medical questionnaire... don't lie. That being said, I've heard that what they don't know won't disqualify you, so be thoughtful when deciding to disclose some weird thing that happened one time when you were a youth. I've seen dumb things crush dreams, while others slipped through the cracks, completely healthy albeit, but perhaps a little more discretionary with disclosure of past medical issues. If it no longer ails you and is otherwise undetectable, perhaps consider your options... But tell the truth.

Thank you for providing this distraction during my tax law class.



Awesome! I will definitely go through all of that. I would just be heartbroken to get accepted for GLP/OYCP/DAP only to get medically disqualified for something random in my medical history.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:23 am

Are you screwed if you're a cancer survivor? Did not find much info on JAG, but for regular enlistment, it seems like you'd be facing an uphill battle on all fronts. I asked a recruiter and he says he does not really know because this kind of stuff does not come up often for JAG applicants. He mentioned getting medical records for a waiver since I am pretty healthy nowadays.

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:Are you screwed if you're a cancer survivor? Did not find much info on JAG, but for regular enlistment, it seems like you'd be facing an uphill battle on all fronts. I asked a recruiter and he says he does not really know because this kind of stuff does not come up often for JAG applicants. He mentioned getting medical records for a waiver since I am pretty healthy nowadays.



There is a PDF form attached on either this thread or the other military thread regarding what is waivable and what is not at MEPS. Just go back a few pages until you see it. Within the last few months. I remember asking when I was getting ready for MEPS.

Without reading the regulation, my gut reaction is that it is going to be tough for you medically if you get selected. MEPS gives people a hard time for having taken an antidepressant ten years ago. I would imagine cancer being much more serious, even despite the fact that you're over it. Even if it is waivable get ready for the waiver process, which will require a litany of records and reports. So cautious optimism I suppose until you peruse the regulation.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:55 am

To the above poster, thanks. Do you think a good PFT score will help my case a lot or no (on the medical sense)? My recruiter suggested I do a prelim PFT soon. I max out on the pull-ups and crunches and have a pretty good 3 mile running time.

(Yes, I'm only talking about USMC)

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the above poster, thanks. Do you think a good PFT score will help my case a lot or no (on the medical sense)? My recruiter suggested I do a prelim PFT soon. I max out on the pull-ups and crunches and have a pretty good 3 mile running time.

(Yes, I'm only talking about USMC)



The medical standards of all the services are generally the same at MEPS. Although perhaps a high PFT score could help in the waiver process. Usually though if you're DQ'd you're DQ'd, being able to do 100 pull ups won't change that.

The Marines won't even deal with you unless you are in good shape. That is why your recruiter is pushing you to do a PFT, he doesn't want to waste any time on you unless he is sure you can pass the PFT. Just an FYI, I was in the Marines before law school. Get used to them pretty much only caring about your PFT, to Marines that is the most important thing. So long as you can do 20 dead hang pull ups, and a under 20 minute 3 mile you should be good. Also be prepared for poor promotion and retention. All of your peers in the other branches will likely be one to two ranks ahead of you your entire career.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:31 pm

The Air Force COT date is January 11th, and the third department NY does not swear in until January 21st. I really don't want to be waiting tables until March so I'm going to try and see if the bar will admit me early.

I phoned admissions and they told me to submit a cover letter explaining my situation along with a letter from a CO with my bar application and the department might take it under consideration. Any New York bar takers have any experience with this?

edja0603
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Re: Military Law

Postby edja0603 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:09 pm

Hey everyone,
I’m a December 2014 DAP selectee for the Air Force, and I thought I would create this post to share my experience working through the selection process. I found this message board to be an invaluable source of information, so I thought I would contribute and maybe synergize a lot of what’s been already posted into one message. With that said, as has been stated repeatedly, reading through all the posts is really very informative.
First, a giant disclaimer. My experience is fairly unique, as is my background. I’m older than a lot of other applicants, and have been working full-time outside of the legal profession for a while. I’ll discuss a little of my credentials, as that is important when you are applying, but because I am sure that I am a fairly atypical candidate, take any of this with a grain of salt.

Application:

I started working on the application for the October board, but quickly realized that it would be too difficult to squeeze in an interview before the board, so I decided to apply to the December board. It takes a while, and you want to make sure that you put down everything you can to make a good first impression. In my interview, my application was discussed with the JAG officer I interviewed with. As has been emphasized repeatedly, the AF takes a “total person” approach to looking at applicants, so even if you think that your Merit Badge for knot tying isn’t important, I would put it on the application, and say that the badge shows I know how to stick with an activity. But I’ll talk a little about my application.
I was a part-time student, taking three classes in the evening a semester, including summers. I applied after I had just finishing 60 credits. I did an externship in the summer with a medium-sized commercial litigation firm because I needed to work around my full-time job, and couldn’t do the times offered for any federal internships. I knew from the beginning of law school I wanted to join the Air Force, so I did every extra-curricular I could fit into my schedule. I got to know professors and worked with them outside of class so that they would have something to talk about if I needed a letter of recommendation. I joined Law Review as soon as I could, and also had just gotten on the Moot Court Board. I also had a very good GPA and booked a few classes. However, my undergrad GPA wasn’t great, and my law school would be ranked well at the bottom of the fourth tier if they ranked tier four schools. But, for whatever dings I had, I also had good reasons/lessons/spins for them. Not great UGPA? Tough major, and it taught me that I need to work much harder. Look at graduate degrees and law school GPA. Why the law school I went to? Great scholarship and I could continue working full-time. The point is, everything you put on your application needs to be something that you learned from or something that you could use to show why you should be chosen for JAG.
Also, you have to send in a picture and a motivation statement, and you can send in letters of recommendation. I would send in as many letters as you can (I sent five), and for the picture, make sure you look like someone who the board could see serving in the military. A crisp suit, a haircut and shave can go a long way when the board is narrowing down candidates.
As for the letters of recommendation, this is the place where you can really shine. In my interview, the Colonel and I discussed an example that one of the professors had shared in his letter. The professor wrote about a board we were on and when I stood up to voice my opinion and take a stance that was contrary to that of the school. The Colonel and I were able to discuss this event in more detail and I think it played a big role in the Colonel’s overall impression of me. So see if you can’t get letters from professors who actually know you and have something useful to say about you. I’m not saying suck up to professors or be “that guy,” but if you want to stand out from the thousands of other applicants, you need to do something to stand out from the hundreds of other law students your professors know as well.

The Inteview

Bar none, the most import part of the application process is the interview. You will go to an Air Force base and sit down with a colonel or lieutenant colonel and make your pitch for why you should be selected. This is the job interview right here, so prepare for it like a job interview. Know something about the base and what they do in the JAG office. Know the Air Force principles and work them into your answers. Essentially, however you would prepare for a job interview in the civilian world, you should do it for JAG as well. For my interview, I wore my best suit, arrived early (but not too early) and made small talk with the people in the office. I was shown around by a captain first, and I tried to ask questions and get his take on his experience in the Air Force so far. Personally, I think the Colonel asked the Captain about his impressions of me, so I would recommend treating the office tour as an important part of the interview.
When I met with the Colonel, we discussed why I wanted to join, how would I command airmen who had more experience than me, what my goals were, and then we discussed my letters and application. Every question he would ask I would point to my application or background as demonstrating whatever idea I was trying to convey. Honestly, if you understand that they are looking for people who will work hard, stick around, and be part of an organization, then it’s not hard to come up with good responses. And if you aren’t willing to do the preceding things, then JAG is probably a really bad choice for you.

The Wait

After the interview, there’s nothing else to do but wait. For the Air Force, I found out the board met through the Air Force JAG Recruiting facebook group. About 6 – 8 weeks after that, you will find out if you were selected. If you are selected, you get a phone call from the person who interviewed you. They will ask if you are still interested in joining, and then let you know a packet will be coming soon.

JAX

About two weeks after the phone call (I had moved so the mail had to be forwarded) you will get a large envelope in the mail with instructions of what to do next. The first thing you do is set up a time to call JAX and start filling out the paperwork to go to MEPS. JAX will walk you through the medical questionnaire, and be as honest as humanely possible with JAX. They are in your corner and want you to make it through MEPS, so hiding something from them won’t help your case. Personally, I knew I was going to have a hard go through with MEPS because I had a bad car accident in high school and have the scars to prove it. But my contact at MEPS was always honest with me, and never gave me false hope.

Waivers

If you have red flags on your questionnaire, then JAX will ask for your medical records. I overnighted everything I had dealing with my car accident, and then you wait again. The first waiver JAX is seeking is for you to even go to MEPS. That is, is your problem so bad that there’s no chance you can get a waiver. As my contact told me, I was definitely going to be DQ’d but hopefully the waiver would work out. Make sure you are a patient person. I was told in January I was selected, go in touch with JAX in February, sent my medical records up in February, and was informed I got a waiver to go to MEPS in May. Literally, the call was “can you go to MEPS in two days?” So there’s definitely some waiting ahead.

MEPS

At five in the morning I was waiting for MEPS to open, surrounded by a bunch of recent high school graduates. I was the only person commissioning that day, but there were plenty of young faces, and even some kids getting ready to ship out for boot camp. Honestly, being at least ten years older than the majority of the room is kind of annoying, because the people at MEPS have to deal with these kids all day, and thus are a strict bunch. I had to tell one kid to quit trying to talk to me every time someone wasn’t looking. At MEPS, you will go through more paperwork (another health questionnaire) and then pee in a cup, take a vision test, hearing test, flexibility test, and interview. Again, honesty is the best policy here. I knew I was playing for a waiver, so I was as courteous and polite to everyone in MEPS as I could be. The doctors at MEPS again generally deal with a bunch of kids, but if you treat the doctors well, they will look out for you.
The interview with the doctor is the big moment for your waiver. He will ask about the conditions, check you out, and get some background. It’s awkward because you are in your underwear, but it definitely helps to be kind. I was done by 2, and after that it’s the waiting game again.
Now no one can tell you how likely you are to get a waiver. Not me, not JAX, the doctor at MEPS, your military buddy, no one. It is entirely up to a board, and Lord knows how that will go. So if you need a medical waiver, you have my sympathy. It can be a long wait. I went to MEPS in June, and did not find out about my waiver until the end of August. My waiver was granted (thank God), but the wait was difficult. Now, I am waiting for bar exam results to post so I can accept my commission and prepare to go to COT.
I hope this little outline is helpful, and would be happy to answer any questions anyone might have.
Good luck.

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Military Law

Postby bsktbll28082 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:45 am

Is the initial officer training phase for the Army a shock if you have no military experience? I see an above poster said Air Force COT was easy.

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:47 pm

bsktbll28082 wrote:Is the initial officer training phase for the Army a shock if you have no military experience? I see an above poster said Air Force COT was easy.



Navy is allegedly pretty easy too from what I've heard. Perhaps this is a trend?

SBlaw2013
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Re: Military Law

Postby SBlaw2013 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:02 pm

I've been stalking this thread since my first year of law school and it's an amazing resource! I'm applying for Army AD right now and I noticed that the online application indicates a November 1st board and "1 March for Active Duty (full time) Accessions and 1L Summer Intern Program" - is this just a forgotten leftover from when the Army was doing two boards per year or does anyone know if the Army is in fact going back to 2 boards per year? Thanks everyone! Good luck to you all in the application process!

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Military Law

Postby bsktbll28082 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:28 pm

SBlaw2013 wrote: I noticed that the online application indicates a November 1st board and "1 March for Active Duty (full time) Accessions and 1L Summer Intern Program"


I don't see that? My page does say the Board is 7/13/2015 and there's no way to change it.

EDIT: Wait, I see it now on the instructions page. Not sure what it means.
Last edited by bsktbll28082 on Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:30 am

Any other applicants for the Air Force October 2015 active duty board? I believe the Board is meeting today to make decisions. Anyone have any idea when those getting an offer will hear back? A week or two?

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:Any other applicants for the Air Force October 2015 active duty board? I believe the Board is meeting today to make decisions. Anyone have any idea when those getting an offer will hear back? A week or two?

Even if the board meets on a certain day, it could be a few days to several weeks before those getting an offer are notified. After the board meets, the selectees are sent up to TJAG who approves the list. This could go very quickly or very slowly. The last few boards seem to have moved quickly, but there's no way to predict it for those of us not working in that office.

As soon as the list is approved, selects should be called within a day or two by the SJA who interviewed them.

SBlaw2013
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Re: Military Law

Postby SBlaw2013 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:15 pm

bsktbll28082 wrote:
SBlaw2013 wrote: I noticed that the online application indicates a November 1st board and "1 March for Active Duty (full time) Accessions and 1L Summer Intern Program"


I don't see that? My page does say the Board is 7/13/2015 and there's no way to change it.

EDIT: Wait, I see it now on the instructions page. Not sure what it means.



Any current Army JAGs here that could tell us if they've gone back to two boards per year? I know that they're taking more JAGs this year so I'm curious.

harp2458
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Re: Military Law

Postby harp2458 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:45 pm

It is now October 10th and there is no answer from the Air Force October Board. I called and found out that the board has not met as of Wednesday October 7th. Hopefully we hear an answer next week. I doubt that though.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:18 pm

harp2458 wrote:It is now October 10th and there is no answer from the Air Force October Board. I called and found out that the board has not met as of Wednesday October 7th. Hopefully we hear an answer next week. I doubt that though.


Did you read Howell's response that was the second most recent post when you posted this? Or the dozens of previous Air Force DAP board posts over the years?

It is not the October 1st board - it is the October board. The timing varies and there are multiple levels of review.

You are applying to be in the military, get used to "hurry up and wait."




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