Military Law

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Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:36 pm

rtb2008x wrote:General question about the JAG timeline:

If I just applied/interviewed for the current spring board with JAG, I know (assuming I'm accepted) I'll go through MEPS, and then officer training around August. At what point am I actually considered enlisted, and what date do I actually begin work? Is it in the Fall, or next Spring??



It depends on the branch you're going into. I believe that with Navy and AF, you receive your commission as soon as you get accepted (i.e., before you go to officer training). Which one are you thinking of?

And when you say "begin work," do you mean begin training? Or actually doing JAG work stuff?

And p.s., when you're an officer, you're not enlisting, you're commissioned. It's not a biggie, just a free tip.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:42 pm

rtb2008x wrote:General question about the JAG timeline:

If I just applied/interviewed for the current spring board with JAG, I know (assuming I'm accepted) I'll go through MEPS, and then officer training around August. At what point am I actually considered enlisted, and what date do I actually begin work? Is it in the Fall, or next Spring??

I'll answer for the Air Force, based on the timing of your question.

If you are not a member of a bar, you will have to get your bar exam results before you can start. So if you got picked up on this board, you would work through MEPs over late spring/early summer and then wait to get your bar exam results. Once you get the results, you will call JAX, and they'll work on getting you an assignment. They'll call back in a few days (maybe a week) with your assignment. If you do not accept it, you are done, and won't come into the Air Force.

If you do accept the assignment, then I think they squeeze the background check in around that time. They will also assign you a COT class date - there are several courses throughout the year, and they'll put you in the next one they can. I think you also have to swear into the bar before you can take the next step, which is taking your commissioning oath. And so a big difference - you will commission as an officer, but you will not enlist. The day you take your commissioning oath is an important date - you become and officer in the Air Force Reserve, and that date will be the date by which your pay is calculated. You will not get actually paid until you start COT, however.

From the time you take your oath until you go to COT, you won't really do anything other than some minor paperwork and maybe pick up an ID card and your uniforms. Once you arrive at COT, that will be your first day of active duty and the day you will start getting paid. You will go through 5 weeks of COT and then either stay at Maxwell for 9 weeks of JASOC or go back to your base for a couple of months first.

For most people that get picked up as 3Ls, they start COT during the January after they graduate from law school, roll straight into JASOC, and then head to their base. If you're in a state with early results or a bar privilege, you might be able to go to COT in late summer or fall.

rtb2008x
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Re: Military Law

Postby rtb2008x » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:53 am

Thanks for the great information! I was asking only because I wanted to know when I would initially be salaried. Need to pay back those law school loans...

I was under the impression that for AF JAG, I'll take the bar exam in July, then immediately after go through COT in the first week in August. Then a month or two later I'll get bar results. So if they salary me during COT, I'll be paid before my bar results?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:23 pm

rtb2008x wrote:Thanks for the great information! I was asking only because I wanted to know when I would initially be salaried. Need to pay back those law school loans...

I was under the impression that for AF JAG, I'll take the bar exam in July, then immediately after go through COT in the first week in August. Then a month or two later I'll get bar results. So if they salary me during COT, I'll be paid before my bar results?


Your impression is not correct. Howell laid it all out for you.

Assuming your are a 3L accepted for Direct Appointment (DAP) - you will sit for the bar in July and you will not be doing anything AF related (other than some preliminary paperwork) until you pass the bar and can submit some verification to JAX. If you get bar results early (Nebraska, Iowa) or are automatically waived in (Wisconsin law schools for the Wisconsin bar), you will likely have enough time to get sworn in along with everything else for COT in October. Most folks will end up in the January COT class though - I sat for Illinois and I went to Jan COT.

The day you leave for COT becomes your first day of active duty service and the first day you start getting paid. It can take a while to get set up by finance, however, and you should not count on a paycheck right away. You'll get backpay but some folks did not get paid until the end of COT.

Folks that come in through the ROTC programs can find themselves at JASOC after having taken the bar but before results come out.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:44 am

For those inquiring about the internship decision timeline, there is a 1-800 number you can call. 1-800-524-8723 and ask for Captain Megan Mallone. She can answer q's. good luck!

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Re: Military Law

Postby middlebear » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:27 pm

Is there any sort of comprehensive comparison for the different branches? I'm particularly focused on AF/Navy, and my impression is that you get to do more varied work and rotations in Navy earlier on (though, if I'm remembering right, are you a line officer in AF but not Navy?) but other than that I'm having a difficult time getting concrete info about the differences.

Apologies if this was discussed 100 pages ago or something--this thread is just massive.

Armylaw101
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Re: Military Law

Postby Armylaw101 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:34 am

For any of those wondering, the Air Force has at least started sending out their tentative job offers for their 1L summer internship program. Not sure if they've sent them all or not.

guitarman86
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Re: Military Law

Postby guitarman86 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:54 pm

Question about the Air Force JAG tentative job offer:

The email states that it is not yet a firm offer and not to make any definite commitments based on it. For those with previous experience, is it highly likely that you'll still be rejected, or are you generally pretty safe at this point? Thanks in advance for the info!

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:21 pm

guitarman86 wrote:Question about the Air Force JAG tentative job offer:

The email states that it is not yet a firm offer and not to make any definite commitments based on it. For those with previous experience, is it highly likely that you'll still be rejected, or are you generally pretty safe at this point? Thanks in advance for the info!


Without seeing the wording of the email, I cannot say with any real certainty but it is likely "tentative" because it is subject to funding, final approval at some high level, and your passing the background check -- all stuff outside your control and that you should not stress about. When I jumped to the Fed civilian side, my position was a "temporary" appointment that would become permanent upon my passing the security clearance investigation.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Holynorth » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:08 am

Just 1Ls or can any 2Ls report receiving these emails?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:30 am

2L here and have heard nothing regarding paid AF internship. Hoping that a lot of people turn down offers!

Holynorth
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Re: Military Law

Postby Holynorth » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:05 pm

Yeah I'm still sitting at referred with no email, letter, or phone call yet.

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skylaws
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Re: Military Law

Postby skylaws » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:21 pm

middlebear wrote:Is there any sort of comprehensive comparison for the different branches? I'm particularly focused on AF/Navy, and my impression is that you get to do more varied work and rotations in Navy earlier on (though, if I'm remembering right, are you a line officer in AF but not Navy?) but other than that I'm having a difficult time getting concrete info about the differences.

Apologies if this was discussed 100 pages ago or something--this thread is just massive.


At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.
Last edited by skylaws on Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:38 pm

Holynorth wrote:Yeah I'm still sitting at referred with no email, letter, or phone call yet.

Me too :(

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:59 pm

skylaws wrote:
middlebear wrote:Is there any sort of comprehensive comparison for the different branches? I'm particularly focused on AF/Navy, and my impression is that you get to do more varied work and rotations in Navy earlier on (though, if I'm remembering right, are you a line officer in AF but not Navy?) but other than that I'm having a difficult time getting concrete info about the differences.

Apologies if this was discussed 100 pages ago or something--this thread is just massive.


At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

Pretty sure Marine Corps and Coast Guard are the only branches were lawyers are also line officers.


Air Force JAGs are line officers.

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skylaws
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Re: Military Law

Postby skylaws » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:51 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
skylaws wrote:
middlebear wrote:Is there any sort of comprehensive comparison for the different branches? I'm particularly focused on AF/Navy, and my impression is that you get to do more varied work and rotations in Navy earlier on (though, if I'm remembering right, are you a line officer in AF but not Navy?) but other than that I'm having a difficult time getting concrete info about the differences.

Apologies if this was discussed 100 pages ago or something--this thread is just massive.


At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

Pretty sure Marine Corps and Coast Guard are the only branches were lawyers are also line officers.


Air Force JAGs are line officers.


My bad. Good to know though, thanks for the correction!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:33 pm

Based on my experience and talking with others, Army and Navy are the only ones where the attorneys aren't line officers.

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middlebear
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Re: Military Law

Postby middlebear » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:34 pm

skylaws wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
skylaws wrote:At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

Pretty sure Marine Corps and Coast Guard are the only branches were lawyers are also line officers.


Air Force JAGs are line officers.


My bad. Good to know though, thanks for the correction!


Thanks to both of you for this info. (And hey, not doing areas of law I think would be totally boring? Sounds great, Navy.) Does the line officer difference really translate into anything for most people, or is that really only important for those that want to go career and eventually shift outside of JAG?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:23 pm

middlebear wrote:
skylaws wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
skylaws wrote:At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

Pretty sure Marine Corps and Coast Guard are the only branches were lawyers are also line officers.


Air Force JAGs are line officers.


My bad. Good to know though, thanks for the correction!


Thanks to both of you for this info. (And hey, not doing areas of law I think would be totally boring? Sounds great, Navy.) Does the line officer difference really translate into anything for most people, or is that really only important for those that want to go career and eventually shift outside of JAG?


It makes absolutely no difference, from an Air Force perspective, other than having this meaningless trump card to play on the Army and Navy when this question comes up on this board. Air Force JAGs are line, but I have never known of a JAG to actually hold a real squadron or group command. The AFLOA commander is a legitimate, G-Series Orders, commander but that is the only game in town. A generation ago, JAGs could and did command FSS and other non-operational squadrons - unless we get a TJAG that actually wants to bring that back, which has not seemed even a consideration in the three I have served under, this is not anything one should hold their breath for.

Our Line status makes no difference in terms of internal AF promotion, as we have our own promotion category (Line of the Air Force - Judge Advocate; LAF-J). We do have real line officers that sit on our promotion boards which some argue is maybe not the best idea - I don't think I should have any say in respect to which F-15E pilots get promoted as I have no idea what the hell goes into their job but you can bet on some rated folks on your promotion board as a lawyer.

I would be honestly shocked if civilians were even aware of the line/non-line/staff distinction. Line status will not make any difference, at all, for a civilian gig. At least once every two weeks I am asked if I also flew F-16s due to the personalized Thunderbirds lithograph I have in my office.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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middlebear
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Re: Military Law

Postby middlebear » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:34 pm

^again, thank you for the information. I figured it didn't really make a difference, but it's good to know for sure.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:41 pm

Any more updates on the AF paid internship? If someone with a tentative offer could say maybe when you have to accept by? 2L sitting here referred with no new news.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Military Law

Postby MarkfromWI » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:57 pm

Are there any former Army JAG interns on here who spent their summer at Fort Hood? I'm having a hard time finding a place to stay that will do a 2 month lease. If anyone has a recommendation, please shoot me a PM. All help is appreciated. Thanks!

Holynorth
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Re: Military Law

Postby Holynorth » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any more updates on the AF paid internship? If someone with a tentative offer could say maybe when you have to accept by? 2L sitting here referred with no new news.


Looking for the same. Can any 2Ls confirm offers being made? I've received nothing since receiving my referral email.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:07 pm

I e-mailed them regarding the paid internship and they said that invitations will go out this week and next week. :idea:

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:44 pm

I was offered a last minute externship with the Army this summer. Very excited, but they seem slow on the paperwork :roll:




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