Military Law

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ShockTop
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Re: Military Law

Postby ShockTop » Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:17 pm

JEB wrote:
S. Goodman wrote:
JEB wrote:I had to be weighed, but don't have to do a prt until I report to ODS after the bar exam as far as I know.



Thanks.

So now that you are through MEPS, at what point does the commissioning happen, the point where you have to officially commit?


Goodman,

I'm still waiting on my final selection letter and commissioning documents. Those have to wait at least on my security clearance investigation being initiated. I don't know how long that will take. I will let you know when I get commissioned to give you an idea of how soon after MEPS clearance it happens.

JAG Hopeful wrote:S. Goodman, this is my secondhand knowledge but it's accurate. First, the PFT Jeb refers to is the Pulmonary Function Test, something related to asthma and not to the Physical Readiness Test. The PRT you'll take for the first time when you report to ODS at Newport. Also, you do indeed have to have your bar passage in hand before going to ODS. As I understand it, if you fail the bar once, it's not good but it does happen to people occasionally. You simply go and take the next test. However, if you fail twice, the Navy will ask you to resign your commission and separate.


Almost correct.

Everyone is expected to take the first bar exam after graduation (assuming you graduate in May, that means the July exam). After you take the bar exam, you are given orders to report to ODS either in August or October. You report to ODS before you have your bar results. After ODS, you return to inactive status until your bar results come in. Once you have your bar membership, then you report to the Basic Lawyer Course at NJS.

If you fail the bar exam twice, you are expected to resign your commission and separate.


Thanks for that info about your experience with the asthma issue. Granted, I haven't even gotten in yet (applied DAP) and was figuring to get things squared away just in case. I even asked my doc about doing a PFT and he didn't seem to think it was necessary unless they asked for one.

JAG Hopeful
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Hopeful » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:53 pm

Thanks Jeb! That's some good extra information; I hadn't heard that about the waiting period, but that makes sense.

Along the medical qualification line, I'm working through being qualified right now too. I saw a doctor regarding the possibility of Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis when I was seven. They determined I didn't have it (as I read the medical records), but it could skunk my chances. Anyone heard of a similar case working out? I'm hopeful that if MEPS comes to a different conclusion, I can get a letter from my doctor certifying that I never had it and don't have it now and that would make a difference.

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JEB
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Re: Military Law

Postby JEB » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:30 pm

JAG Hopeful wrote:Thanks Jeb! That's some good extra information; I hadn't heard that about the waiting period, but that makes sense.

Along the medical qualification line, I'm working through being qualified right now too. I saw a doctor regarding the possibility of Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis when I was seven. They determined I didn't have it (as I read the medical records), but it could skunk my chances. Anyone heard of a similar case working out? I'm hopeful that if MEPS comes to a different conclusion, I can get a letter from my doctor certifying that I never had it and don't have it now and that would make a difference.


The most important thing is to have all the medical records. Have the records from that doctor's visit showing that they determined that you didn't have it. MEPS will want that. If there's anything that isn't covered in the records you have, they'll want tests before they clear you to go to MEPS. Start gathering the stuff now so that if you're selected you already have it together.

JAG Hopeful
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Hopeful » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:47 pm

JEB wrote:
JAG Hopeful wrote:Thanks Jeb! That's some good extra information; I hadn't heard that about the waiting period, but that makes sense.

Along the medical qualification line, I'm working through being qualified right now too. I saw a doctor regarding the possibility of Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis when I was seven. They determined I didn't have it (as I read the medical records), but it could skunk my chances. Anyone heard of a similar case working out? I'm hopeful that if MEPS comes to a different conclusion, I can get a letter from my doctor certifying that I never had it and don't have it now and that would make a difference.


The most important thing is to have all the medical records. Have the records from that doctor's visit showing that they determined that you didn't have it. MEPS will want that. If there's anything that isn't covered in the records you have, they'll want tests before they clear you to go to MEPS. Start gathering the stuff now so that if you're selected you already have it together.


I’ve got that all set, actually. MEPS is looking over my records right now. My problem seems to be that thee doctors used language like “Possibility of JRA, resolved.” So, I didn’t have it, but it’s not as clear as I’d like. I’ve not been professionally recommended yet, but it’ll be very disappointing being DQed.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:09 pm

JAG Hopeful wrote:I’ve got that all set, actually. MEPS is looking over my records right now. My problem seems to be that thee doctors used language like “Possibility of JRA, resolved.” So, I didn’t have it, but it’s not as clear as I’d like. I’ve not been professionally recommended yet, but it’ll be very disappointing being DQed.


Apologies if I'm missing something, but you do the medical clearance stuff before you get professionally recommended? That seems odd...like a lot of wasted resources if you don't get picked up.

Also, any prior service guys go through this process? I've heard you have to go through MEPs again, but is it easier/streamlined at all since in theory you've already been found medically fit for military service once?

JAG Hopeful
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Hopeful » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:46 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
JAG Hopeful wrote:I’ve got that all set, actually. MEPS is looking over my records right now. My problem seems to be that thee doctors used language like “Possibility of JRA, resolved.” So, I didn’t have it, but it’s not as clear as I’d like. I’ve not been professionally recommended yet, but it’ll be very disappointing being DQed.


Apologies if I'm missing something, but you do the medical clearance stuff before you get professionally recommended? That seems odd...like a lot of wasted resources if you don't get picked up.

Also, any prior service guys go through this process? I've heard you have to go through MEPs again, but is it easier/streamlined at all since in theory you've already been found medically fit for military service once?


I’m going backwards through the process. I had an internship last summer and knew that the JRA visit might be problematic. So, I was advised to contact the officer recruiter for my area and explain my situation. He decided to have me go through the medical certification. That way, we wouldn’t waste any more of the Navy’s or my time with repeated Acessions Board applications and another summer internship if I wasn’t going to be qualified in the end. It took longer than anticipated, and I was offered another internship and eventually rejected it so as not to put all my eggs in a basket job-connection-wise and spend another $7k without any job assurance.

Either way it pans out, I think it’ll be helpful. If I’m medically DQed, it will be devastating. But, nothing I can do will change it, so it’ll be better knowing it in my 2L year than late in 3L. Second, if I am qualified, that’s just one step closer and I’ll be able to commission faster if/when I’m professionally recommended. I’m just biting my nails waiting and hoping it pans out as the latter rather than the former.

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:22 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Also, any prior service guys go through this process? I've heard you have to go through MEPs again, but is it easier/streamlined at all since in theory you've already been found medically fit for military service once?



Curious about this as well. You'd think it would depend on how long you have been off active duty, but I don't know. I bet they make you do everything from zip again.

elle21
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Re: Military Law

Postby elle21 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:26 pm

hi- 2L seeking advice regarding navy jag internship. I was notified that I'm an alternate for this summer, has anyone been alternate who has gotten in? Or does anyone know the selection process regarding how they evaluate alternates? Possible time frame you were notified?

Thanks in advance.

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twenty
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Re: Military Law

Postby twenty » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:02 pm

I'm an alternate too, curious to see how this will pan out.

Dani2920
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dani2920 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:45 pm

S. Goodman wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Also, any prior service guys go through this process? I've heard you have to go through MEPs again, but is it easier/streamlined at all since in theory you've already been found medically fit for military service once?



Curious about this as well. You'd think it would depend on how long you have been off active duty, but I don't know. I bet they make you do everything from zip again.


I can't speak for all prior service, but I did have to repeat MEPS. I was actively serving in the National Guard when I was PR'ed by the Navy. I was surprised I had to go back through MEPS at all but I did. From scratch! It was actually much more difficult for me this time around than when I went through 6 years ago. I assume with the drawdown in troops, they are not as lenient as they once were.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:17 pm

twenty wrote:I'm an alternate too, curious to see how this will pan out.


For the Navy or the Army? (Thought you mentioned that you had joined the Army Reserves at some point)

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twenty
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Re: Military Law

Postby twenty » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:39 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
twenty wrote:I'm an alternate too, curious to see how this will pan out.


For the Navy or the Army? (Thought you mentioned that you had joined the Army Reserves at some point)


Navy - I decided to not take the AR commission due to law school, which looking back, was a huge mistake on my part. I thought 1L was going to be a lot harder.

shay2171
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Re: Military Law

Postby shay2171 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:45 pm

I know this has been asked and answered before, and that JAG likes well rounded individuals, but I need some help for getting a good rapport with a faculty member at the University I want to attend and I am not quite sure what "area" I should look into. I would figure trial advocacy and litigation would be the most important? Then civl and crim procedure? Thank you all for your time and effort that is going into these boards. This thread has been really an amazing help.

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skylaws
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Re: Military Law

Postby skylaws » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:46 pm

Selected for Air Force OYCP! Still hyperventilating. Can't believe the call came today, since the last two years they went out on Friday.

Good luck all, hope we get lots of TLS selects this board!

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:11 pm

shay2171 wrote:I know this has been asked and answered before, and that JAG likes well rounded individuals, but I need some help for getting a good rapport with a faculty member at the University I want to attend and I am not quite sure what "area" I should look into. I would figure trial advocacy and litigation would be the most important? Then civl and crim procedure? Thank you all for your time and effort that is going into these boards. This thread has been really an amazing help.


Are you talking about letters of recommendation? There's no particular subject area of professor that will help you more than others in my opinion. None of my crim. pro. I, civ. pro., civ. trial ad., or crim. trial ad. professors wrote me letters; I just took the classes & did fine. In fact, my contracts & constitutional law professors wrote 2 of my letters. I actually took 2 classes with my contracts prof; I thought he knew me best. He helped me get in my door with the JAG Corps. the most.

JAG Officers practice in many different legal areas. There's no hierarchy of subject areas. You should have professors who know you well, know your work (and hopefully you got a good grade from) write your letters. You're right that advocacy is important; but you don't need to force chemistry with practical-subject-area-professors more than with others. The various JAG Corps. like diversity; if you bring something interesting to the table; that helps.

(Although, wherever you intern or extern; those attorneys will make good professional letters of recommendation.)

(But don't skip the advocacy classes, mock trial, moot court etc. though. You should definitely get that experience during your 3 years.)
Last edited by shintopig on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jagnut
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Re: Military Law

Postby jagnut » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:38 pm

Accepted into the GLP today! The SJAG (my interviewer) called me at around 2pm EST. At the end of my interview back in January, he specifically advised not to be optimistic since the odds were so low, so I'm pretty overwhelmed right now. It's my dream job and the main reason I went to law school so it's an immense relief.

Since I didn't actually expect to be picked up before DAP, now I need to figure out how in the hell I'm going to reconcile ROTC with law school for the next 2 years... not trying to complain- I'm excited for the challenge.

I owe a lot to this thread so thank you to those who have participated.

Jules07
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Re: Military Law

Postby Jules07 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:52 pm

jagnut wrote:Accepted into the GLP today! The SJAG (my interviewer) called me at around 2pm EST. At the end of my interview back in January, he specifically advised not to be optimistic since the odds were so low, so I'm pretty overwhelmed right now. It's my dream job and the main reason I went to law school so it's an immense relief.

Since I didn't actually expect to be picked up before DAP, now I need to figure out how in the hell I'm going to reconcile ROTC with law school for the next 2 years... not trying to complain- I'm excited for the challenge.

I owe a lot to this thread so thank you to those who have participated.


Congratulations!! You're on exactly the same track as me, just a year behind…feel free to shoot me a message if you want to talk about the ROTC/law school life!

herring3279
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Re: Military Law

Postby herring3279 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:39 pm

I was also selected for the GLP and received a call today. I was really not expecting to be chosen so I'm still a bit stunned. Air Force JAG was my top choice.

JAG Hopeful
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Hopeful » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:25 pm

So, I’ve basically heard back that I’m permanently disqualified. My recruiter has me doing some last-ditch Hail Mary approaches, but he’s not hopeful, and now I have to be realistic. I’ve been pursuing this since undergrad, so this is rather crushing. But if it’s not in the cards, that’s that.

That said, I still want to serve, and particularly do so in the Navy. Does anyone have any knowledge (other than general from their website) about work in the Office of the General Counsel of the Navy, or working as a civilian in the Navy JAG? I’m hoping it’s not impossible to get hired right out of law school; they do have GS-11 positions open for recent grads. Anyone know about what the work looks like on the day-to-day level?

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:45 pm

JAG Hopeful wrote:So, I’ve basically heard back that I’m permanently disqualified. My recruiter has me doing some last-ditch Hail Mary approaches, but he’s not hopeful, and now I have to be realistic. I’ve been pursuing this since undergrad, so this is rather crushing. But if it’s not in the cards, that’s that.

That said, I still want to serve, and particularly do so in the Navy. Does anyone have any knowledge (other than general from their website) about work in the Office of the General Counsel of the Navy, or working as a civilian in the Navy JAG? I’m hoping it’s not impossible to get hired right out of law school; they do have GS-11 positions open for recent grads. Anyone know about what the work looks like on the day-to-day level?



Interviewed with the office of general council. They do hire new graduates and my understanding of the work is you handle administrative law, and defend the navy when it gets sued etc. no military justce, the military jags handle that.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:58 pm

In my opinion, from working with a number of OGC attorneys, it is much harder to get into OGC as compared to JAG. There are a number of former JAGs that go into OGC, but going straight in is tough. It is tough to sign on with the Feds and initially get your foot in the door.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:48 am

S. Goodman wrote:
JAG Hopeful wrote:So, I’ve basically heard back that I’m permanently disqualified. My recruiter has me doing some last-ditch Hail Mary approaches, but he’s not hopeful, and now I have to be realistic. I’ve been pursuing this since undergrad, so this is rather crushing. But if it’s not in the cards, that’s that.

That said, I still want to serve, and particularly do so in the Navy. Does anyone have any knowledge (other than general from their website) about work in the Office of the General Counsel of the Navy, or working as a civilian in the Navy JAG? I’m hoping it’s not impossible to get hired right out of law school; they do have GS-11 positions open for recent grads. Anyone know about what the work looks like on the day-to-day level?



Interviewed with the office of general council. They do hire new graduates and my understanding of the work is you handle administrative law, and defend the navy when it gets sued etc. no military justce, the military jags handle that.


Yeah, I remember from my interview when I expressed interests in contracts, they told me unlike the AF or AR, most of the Navy's big contracting & procurement is done through the OGC, not through the JAGC

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:11 am

shintopig wrote:
S. Goodman wrote:
JAG Hopeful wrote:So, I’ve basically heard back that I’m permanently disqualified. My recruiter has me doing some last-ditch Hail Mary approaches, but he’s not hopeful, and now I have to be realistic. I’ve been pursuing this since undergrad, so this is rather crushing. But if it’s not in the cards, that’s that.

That said, I still want to serve, and particularly do so in the Navy. Does anyone have any knowledge (other than general from their website) about work in the Office of the General Counsel of the Navy, or working as a civilian in the Navy JAG? I’m hoping it’s not impossible to get hired right out of law school; they do have GS-11 positions open for recent grads. Anyone know about what the work looks like on the day-to-day level?



Interviewed with the office of general council. They do hire new graduates and my understanding of the work is you handle administrative law, and defend the navy when it gets sued etc. no military justce, the military jags handle that.


Yeah, I remember from my interview when I expressed interests in contracts, they told me unlike the AF or AR, most of the Navy's big contracting & procurement is done through the OGC, not through the JAGC


That's generally correct. In my experience, Navy civilian attorneys are more influential and carry more respect than the GS types in the other services.

Navy OGC lists all their advertised positions here:
http://ogc.navy.mil/careers/ogcvacancylist.aspx

Saw this on USAJOBs the other day -- technically a civilian Air Force billet but for a joint combatant command that appears to be some combination of STRATCOM, CYBERCOM, and the NSA:
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/395225200

JAG Hopeful
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Hopeful » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:40 am

I've been watching the OGC website for a couple weeks, and they've been posting a lot of positions. Perhaps it's simply hiring season, but even in the last week, there's been half a dozen slots posted. The problem is that most of them aren't GS-11 positions, and those that are will also hire up to GS 14. As people have said, it looks like, outside their internship program, it might be tough to get a spot right out of school; it is a little encouraging that they specifically mention that 3Ls can apply.

What about Navy JAGC civilians, or other JAG civilians? At our base for my internship, we had a civilian attorney, but she worked exclusively with Legal Assistance, getting sailors wills, solving personal civil matters, etc. Are there any opportunities for military justice from civilians in the JAGC?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:15 pm

JAG Hopeful wrote:I've been watching the OGC website for a couple weeks, and they've been posting a lot of positions. Perhaps it's simply hiring season, but even in the last week, there's been half a dozen slots posted. The problem is that most of them aren't GS-11 positions, and those that are will also hire up to GS 14. As people have said, it looks like, outside their internship program, it might be tough to get a spot right out of school; it is a little encouraging that they specifically mention that 3Ls can apply.

What about Navy JAGC civilians, or other JAG civilians? At our base for my internship, we had a civilian attorney, but she worked exclusively with Legal Assistance, getting sailors wills, solving personal civil matters, etc. Are there any opportunities for military justice from civilians in the JAGC?


The Air Force perspective:

Not really and no chance for entry level attorneys. Base legal offices, depending on the size and scope of the mission, may have one to a handful of civilian attorneys at the GS 11-14 level that are subject matter specialists. The most common ones I came across were environmental law and labor law. Some bases have hired legal assistance civilians and bases that have a heavy civil law workload may have a civilian in a leadership position overseeing the civil law/general law division in order to ensure continuity -- this is how Wright Patt base legal was structured when I was an intern there years ago.

Lackland is the only base legal office I have interacted with that has a civilian in a military justice position and he was a former military judge and a retired Lieutenant Colonel.




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