Military Law

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:45 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
shintopig wrote:And, well I got USN, so both the internship and his letter helped I would definitely say.


Shinto, you mind sharing some of your stats/softs/background, since you got Navy on your first shot? If you're not comfortable posting, maybe you could PM?



Also curious about this.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:28 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
shintopig wrote:And, well I got USN, so both the internship and his letter helped I would definitely say.


Shinto, you mind sharing some of your stats/softs/background, since you got Navy on your first shot? If you're not comfortable posting, maybe you could PM?


Sorry, you contacted me before & I was a dummy & forgot. PMed you. We'll keep in contact for whatever you need me for.

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:16 pm

shintopig wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
shintopig wrote:And, well I got USN, so both the internship and his letter helped I would definitely say.


Shinto, you mind sharing some of your stats/softs/background, since you got Navy on your first shot? If you're not comfortable posting, maybe you could PM?


Sorry, you contacted me before & I was a dummy & forgot. PMed you. We'll keep in contact for whatever you need me for.


I'd also liek to know your stats if you wouldn't mind sharing.

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AT9
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Re: Military Law

Postby AT9 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:36 pm

I apologize if this has been answered, but anyone know about the timeline/selection process for the AF JAG internship (1L here)? The deadline was a few days ago.

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Mozart Lacrimosa
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Re: Military Law

Postby Mozart Lacrimosa » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:24 pm

Great info ITT, thanks for everyone contributing.
1) I was surprised to see JAG keeps record of LSAT scores, is that for FLEP mostly or also DA? Is it as big a factor as law school grades?

2) For guys who have gotten AF or Army commissions, does everyone get that nice signing bonus or is it there a qualification?

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:08 pm

S. Goodman wrote:
shintopig wrote:I'd also liek to know your stats if you wouldn't mind sharing.


PMed you.
Last edited by shintopig on Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

uvandy
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Re: Military Law

Postby uvandy » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:25 pm

Mozart Lacrimosa wrote:Great info ITT, thanks for everyone contributing.
1) I was surprised to see JAG keeps record of LSAT scores, is that for FLEP mostly or also DA? Is it as big a factor as law school grades?
For Air Force, I believe you need at least a 150. Not sure about the others, but I doubt it's a major factor in any of the branches. Your law school accomplishments are much more important.

uvandy
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Re: Military Law

Postby uvandy » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:28 pm

AT9 wrote:I apologize if this has been answered, but anyone know about the timeline/selection process for the AF JAG internship (1L here)? The deadline was a few days ago.
Do you mean the unpaid externship? I didn't see anything about an internship.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:35 pm

uvandy wrote:
Mozart Lacrimosa wrote:Great info ITT, thanks for everyone contributing.
1) I was surprised to see JAG keeps record of LSAT scores, is that for FLEP mostly or also DA? Is it as big a factor as law school grades?
For Air Force, I believe you need at least a 150. Not sure about the others, but I doubt it's a major factor in any of the branches. Your law school accomplishments are much more important.


Apparently Navy considers it. I don't think it's the be all end all, but it does matter to some degree.

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AT9
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Re: Military Law

Postby AT9 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:46 pm

uvandy wrote:
AT9 wrote:I apologize if this has been answered, but anyone know about the timeline/selection process for the AF JAG internship (1L here)? The deadline was a few days ago.
Do you mean the unpaid externship? I didn't see anything about an internship.


Yes, sorry. The externship is what I meant (I think it was a paid internship recently, hence my mistaken use). Hopefully the fact that it isn't paid will drive applications down :lol:

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:50 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
uvandy wrote:
Mozart Lacrimosa wrote:Great info ITT, thanks for everyone contributing.
1) I was surprised to see JAG keeps record of LSAT scores, is that for FLEP mostly or also DA? Is it as big a factor as law school grades?
For Air Force, I believe you need at least a 150. Not sure about the others, but I doubt it's a major factor in any of the branches. Your law school accomplishments are much more important.


Apparently Navy considers it. I don't think it's the be all end all, but it does matter to some degree.


I was told by my interviewers that the LSAT score is combined with the interview score to form a composite score. They use a cut off composite score to weed applications out before they get sent to the board.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:16 pm

S. Goodman wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
uvandy wrote:
Mozart Lacrimosa wrote:Great info ITT, thanks for everyone contributing.
1) I was surprised to see JAG keeps record of LSAT scores, is that for FLEP mostly or also DA? Is it as big a factor as law school grades?
For Air Force, I believe you need at least a 150. Not sure about the others, but I doubt it's a major factor in any of the branches. Your law school accomplishments are much more important.


Apparently Navy considers it. I don't think it's the be all end all, but it does matter to some degree.


I was told by my interviewers that the LSAT score is combined with the interview score to form a composite score. They use a cut off composite score to weed applications out before they get sent to the board.


I wonder if it's a pass/fail thing or a qualitative thing. I get that the Navy doesn't want to even bother sending the obviously retarded (super shitty LSAT) or the completely socially inept (super shitty interview) to the board. But I wonder if, once you clear that hurdle, the LSAT score matters. For example, I wonder if it's better to have a 180 over a 160, or if it's more like, "160 is good enough to get you to the board, so it no longer matters."

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:54 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:
I wonder if it's a pass/fail thing or a qualitative thing. I get that the Navy doesn't want to even bother sending the obviously retarded (super shitty LSAT) or the completely socially inept (super shitty interview) to the board. But I wonder if, once you clear that hurdle, the LSAT score matters. For example, I wonder if it's better to have a 180 over a 160, or if it's more like, "160 is good enough to get you to the board, so it no longer matters."


No idea.

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Mozart Lacrimosa
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Re: Military Law

Postby Mozart Lacrimosa » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:22 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
S. Goodman wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
uvandy wrote:For Air Force, I believe you need at least a 150. Not sure about the others, but I doubt it's a major factor in any of the branches. Your law school accomplishments are much more important.


Apparently Navy considers it. I don't think it's the be all end all, but it does matter to some degree.


I was told by my interviewers that the LSAT score is combined with the interview score to form a composite score. They use a cut off composite score to weed applications out before they get sent to the board.


I wonder if it's a pass/fail thing or a qualitative thing. I get that the Navy doesn't want to even bother sending the obviously retarded (super shitty LSAT) or the completely socially inept (super shitty interview) to the board. But I wonder if, once you clear that hurdle, the LSAT score matters. For example, I wonder if it's better to have a 180 over a 160, or if it's more like, "160 is good enough to get you to the board, so it no longer matters."


That's what I was curious about. It seems an odd metric considering the LSAT was roughly 4 years prior to board selection. Leads me to believe that it's just a threshold before things like LS gpa and LR/volunteer are considered. just my 2 cents

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JEB
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Re: Military Law

Postby JEB » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:39 pm

It was explained to me that the LSAT score is important because it's uniform, just like the SI score. Everyone is graded on a standardized scoring scheme, so it's a better metric than LS GPA, which is inflated everywhere, but different schools inflate it differently.

It isn't clear whether they consider your LSAT score or SI score at the selection board. If they do, it's probably a relatively small part of what they consider. But if the composite score isn't high enough, the board is never going to see the rest of your app.

uvandy
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Re: Military Law

Postby uvandy » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:22 pm

AT9 wrote:
uvandy wrote:
AT9 wrote:I apologize if this has been answered, but anyone know about the timeline/selection process for the AF JAG internship (1L here)? The deadline was a few days ago.
Do you mean the unpaid externship? I didn't see anything about an internship.


Yes, sorry. The externship is what I meant (I think it was a paid internship recently, hence my mistaken use). Hopefully the fact that it isn't paid will drive applications down :lol:
I was confused about that too. It seems like they had paid internships in the past but not this year. My understanding is that we will find out the results in about a month or two. The externship should be much less competitive than the regular boards for active-duty.

uvandy
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Re: Military Law

Postby uvandy » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:32 pm

Looks like your LSAT score is a significant factor on whether your application makes it to the board with the Navy:

Composite Multiple (CM). The CM is a 1-100 score consisting of an applicant's structured interview (SI) score and Law School Admission Test (LSAT) percentile. To arrive at this "Composite Multiple" score, an applicant's SI score (a maximum of 60 points) is added to their LSAT percentile multiplied by .4 (for a maximum of 40 points) . Only completed applications are considered in determining the CM.


Screening. The PSB precept will establish a screening standard set as a percentile of the CM of all eligible applicants. The precept may direct that completed applications with a CM score equal to or less than the specified percentile of the CM of all eligible applicants will be dropped from consideration without review by the PSB. The precept will specify that completed applications within a certain CM percentile range will be reviewed the PSB. The precept will establish the number or percentage of prescreened applicants that the PSB may select from each Student Program Fiscal Year and, when applicable, Direct Appointment applicant pool for consideration by the next Navy JAGC Accession Selection Board.

p17 of the pdf. Lots of good info there.

http://www.jag.navy.mil/library/instructions/JAG_NLSCINST_1150-1C.pdf

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Mozart Lacrimosa
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Re: Military Law

Postby Mozart Lacrimosa » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:20 pm

uvandy wrote:Looks like your LSAT score is a significant factor on whether your application makes it to the board with the Navy:

Composite Multiple (CM). The CM is a 1-100 score consisting of an applicant's structured interview (SI) score and Law School Admission Test (LSAT) percentile. To arrive at this "Composite Multiple" score, an applicant's SI score (a maximum of 60 points) is added to their LSAT percentile multiplied by .4 (for a maximum of 40 points) . Only completed applications are considered in determining the CM.


Screening. The PSB precept will establish a screening standard set as a percentile of the CM of all eligible applicants. The precept may direct that completed applications with a CM score equal to or less than the specified percentile of the CM of all eligible applicants will be dropped from consideration without review by the PSB. The precept will specify that completed applications within a certain CM percentile range will be reviewed the PSB. The precept will establish the number or percentage of prescreened applicants that the PSB may select from each Student Program Fiscal Year and, when applicable, Direct Appointment applicant pool for consideration by the next Navy JAGC Accession Selection Board.

p17 of the pdf. Lots of good info there.

http://www.jag.navy.mil/library/instructions/JAG_NLSCINST_1150-1C.pdf


That is on the money. Thanks for the answer.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:50 am

There is one caveat, all those with a composite score above a certain number automatically go to the accessions board. However, there is a pre-screening board that reviews all records below a threshold composite score. That board will recommend a certain number of those records proceed to the full accessions board. So, you could call below the multiplier and still get selected.

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:46 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:There is one caveat, all those with a composite score above a certain number automatically go to the accessions board. However, there is a pre-screening board that reviews all records below a threshold composite score. That board will recommend a certain number of those records proceed to the full accessions board. So, you could call below the multiplier and still get selected.



Thanks for this. As someone with a mediocre LSAT I was concerned...

JAG Hopeful
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Hopeful » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:10 pm

I’m a 2L seeking only Navy at this point, because I’d be my family’s 4th generation Naval Officer if I was selected. I’ve been reading this thread a long time but just joined yesterday to post.

Here's my stats for the first (Dec '14) Board:
• Undergrad – small liberal arts college – GPA: 3.96/4.00 and class rank: 8/389
• Middle-ranked law school (that said, we tied top schools for JAG appointments the year I entered) – full-ride scholarship with top 10%.
• LSAT - 161, 83rd percentile
• 1L summer intern with the Navy JAG
• Letters of Rec - 2 Navy JAG LTs, 1 law school prof, 1 pastor, 1 attorney/boss

For the second board, I changed my personal statement and got my O-6 CO to give me a letter of rec. I’m hoping I didn’t screw up my structured interview, because I was sure I’d get in. Just another reminder that this is a long and difficult road. I have my fingers crossed for the next board.

Here’s my questions: First, any advice for next time? Next, for those selected, how much physical fitness evidence did you have on your application? I’m fit, but I never played varsity sports in high school and did rec leagues in college. When they look at my photo, they’ll see I’m 6’2’’ and 175 lbs – good physique. Is this going to be a problem?

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:20 pm

JAG Hopeful wrote: Next, for those selected, how much physical fitness evidence did you have on your application? I’m fit, but I never played varsity sports in high school and did rec leagues in college. When they look at my photo, they’ll see I’m 6’2’’ and 175 lbs – good physique. Is this going to be a problem?

PMed you (finally). But didn't answer these.

For the AR, AF, & USN your height & weight is included. Also, like you said your photo will show more. Your interview of course allows them to see your physique in person. Then, your extracurriculars/activities'll mention sports and what not.

I know AR is of course big on fitness; nothing new (I got asked about sports and my fitness in the interview). The AF includes your waist measurement as part of your fitness requirements (only after you're in though). I only included additional details about my fitness regimen to USN only after the board prof. rec'ed. me. You're expected to be in shape before you get to ODS training of course.

For USMC you'll do a PFT test to submit with the app. Although their app & processes are a whole different monster.

The CG I don't know about.

I've never done varsity or club anything. I just stay in shape on my own (weights & running). So it's not a deal breaker (at least for the USN). AR & USMC I'd be less sure about though.

JAG Hopeful
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Hopeful » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:28 pm

No problem, Shinto! I'll write a reply later tonight, but thank you in advance!

That all sounds good, although I don't believe there's any portion on the Navy's application where you enter your height/weight; they do see you for the interview, as well as your picture though. Like I said, I'm fit, I just focused on different projects than sports in high school. I did fence for three years in college, but that's really the only organized thing. I just know they look at that as important. Hopefully between the fencing and looking in shape, that won't be too big an obstacle.

lawhaze
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Re: Military Law

Postby lawhaze » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:12 am

MarkfromWI wrote:
rtb2008x wrote:3L here. Anyone familiar with applying to Marine Corps JAG?? I've found applications for all other branches, but Marine Corps doesn't have any listed application on their website.

Any help?


Basically there isn't just an application on the internet that you can start filling out. You need to get in touch with an Officer Selection Officer. Just google "USMC OSO + [your location]" or something like that and you should be able to track them down. Anyway, the OSO's are Marine officers who are responsible for evaluating/screening potential applicants within a certain geographic region. I'm not really sure how individualized the process is from district to district or if they all follow roughly the same procedure but this is what I experienced over the last few months. With my OSO I had to do an interview before they would even allow me to fill out what they call a "rough application." Once you do the rough app then you'll run the PFT sometime shortly after (within a week or two). Unlike all the other branches your PFT score is actually part of your application package and it's weighted pretty heavily from what I can tell. If you end up being selected to attend Officer Candidate Course at Officer Candidate School you will go during one of your LS summers --- sorry, just saw you're a 3L, you could go to the next available session after you graduate. OCC is a 10 week course. I could go into more detail but Wikipedia does a better job http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officer_Candidates_School_(United_States_Marine_Corps)

Just a forewarning, the USMC currently does not have any law contracts available for OCS and won't until at least the start of FY16 in September (if they decide to offer them in '16). The Marines are very adamant about every officer being a line officer and "Every Marine a Rifleman," so if you go in front of an OSO asking about law contracts, expect to be asked (somewhat hypothetically) if you would be willing to go to OCS on a ground contract if you were selected and a law contract was unavailable. If you say no, that may just end your candidacy right on the spot. If you say yes, don't be surprised to have them say, "well just go to OCS and once you get to The Basic School there's usually a law slot or two that opens up so don't worry about it."

Best of luck to you. I ended up withdrawing my application after finding out I was selected for the Army 2L internship because while I believe I would have enjoyed being a Marine JA, I wasn't ready to do it without a law contract.


As MarkfromWI mentioned, no current law contracts are being offered. Regardless, though, here's some info that might be helpful: http://officer.marines.com/docs/oso/law/law1.pdf and http://officer.marines.com/docs/oso/law/law2.pdf.

travellingboarder
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Re: Military Law

Postby travellingboarder » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:50 am

I was accepted in the Army Reserves. I just finished my physical. Dodmets sent my paperwork to Dodmerb on 2/4. I'm wondering how long Dodmerb takes (estimate) and how long it will take after I send over my labs (estimate).

After that, I need to find my station (which I believe I've already found since I interviewed at one and when I was accepted, they said (welcome to the *&^th LOD.")

Can any reservists let me know how long this process takes? The process after Dodmerb gets the physical until I start with my unit.

Thanks!




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