Military Law

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SillySnarf
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:09 am

Re: Military Law

Postby SillySnarf » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:21 pm

I called in this morning to the 1-800-JAG-USAF number and learned that I was not selected. The person I spoke with thought that my name might not have ended up on the mail merge, so that could be why others aren't receiving rejection emails yet as well.

Hopefully I can get some feedback from my interviewer regarding where the Selection Board felt my shortcomings are. Has anyone had success getting that kind of feedback?

Good luck to everyone else!

Rambo152
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Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:34 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Rambo152 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:25 pm

My rejection letter was sent to my G-mail spam folder last night. Didn't notice it until after I called today. That puts me 0 for 4 with the Air Force. My first Navy interview is next week.
Anyone have thoughts on whether I might have a better shot if I pursue a commission before reapplying? I am currently enlisted (E-6) in the AF Reserve and I feel as if there's a bit of a bias against me having not commissioned yet. Every interviewer has asked me why I haven't even applied.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:46 pm

jagnut wrote:Had my interview with an AF SJA for the 1L GLP today. It went well and I was informed he would recommend me, however, he said that typically only 1-3 1L's get selected per year. I had never heard that before- crazy.


Yeah, GLP is pretty low-accession amount. I didn't get it when I applied.

I checked with OYCP (the 2L-program) in 2012, and that program took around 7 selects I believe . DAPers make up the majority of the selects.

Rambo152 wrote:My rejection letter was sent to my G-mail spam folder last night. Didn't notice it until after I called today. That puts me 0 for 4 with the Air Force. My first Navy interview is next week.
Anyone have thoughts on whether I might have a better shot if I pursue a commission before reapplying? I am currently enlisted (E-6) in the AF Reserve and I feel as if there's a bit of a bias against me having not commissioned yet. Every interviewer has asked me why I haven't even applied.


I've been a non-select for the AF 3-times in a row now, even after interning with them during law school & getting a letter of rec. from an AF Col.

I was prof. rec.'ed though by USN this past board. Don't be discouraged!
Last edited by shintopig on Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jjm123
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Re: Military Law

Postby jjm123 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:46 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
jagapplicant2012 wrote:I've been posting little updates about the Army AD process for selectees. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up that Army AD selects from Dec. 2012 just were notified that some (at least 20) are not shipping for OBC until Jan 2015. Pretty tough to hear. They're looking for volunteers to take the later OBC class date. I have no idea what this means for future applicants (perhaps nothing).


:shock:


Does anyone know if the Army still has such a long backlog for AD selects to process?

edja0603
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Re: Military Law

Postby edja0603 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:23 pm

But if you're coming in thinking this is a cushy, gov't, 9-5 job, you're going to be miserable.


I have about the cushiest gov't job you could hope for now. I "work" 25 hours a week, with 10 of those being office hours. I'm paid fairly well, have a pension and excellent benefits. I have had more than one person ask why I would want to leave my position.

I loathe going to teach some of my classes. It's the same subject with the same dead faces semester in and semester out. The law work I have done is more interesting because it's a new problem to solve and address every day. Sure, reading cases can be tedious, but you're looking for that little nugget that's going to let you trump the other guy. The fact that I get to serve my country at the same time is the icing on the cake. I think for a while there was this idea of "oh well at least the military is still hiring, it can't be that bad." And there were a lot of people taking the job that didn't really want to be there. From my first day of law school, this was the job I wanted. I can't wait to get started.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:50 pm

edja0603 wrote:
But if you're coming in thinking this is a cushy, gov't, 9-5 job, you're going to be miserable.


I have about the cushiest gov't job you could hope for now. I "work" 25 hours a week, with 10 of those being office hours. I'm paid fairly well, have a pension and excellent benefits. I have had more than one person ask why I would want to leave my position.

I loathe going to teach some of my classes. It's the same subject with the same dead faces semester in and semester out. The law work I have done is more interesting because it's a new problem to solve and address every day. Sure, reading cases can be tedious, but you're looking for that little nugget that's going to let you trump the other guy. The fact that I get to serve my country at the same time is the icing on the cake. I think for a while there was this idea of "oh well at least the military is still hiring, it can't be that bad." And there were a lot of people taking the job that didn't really want to be there. From my first day of law school, this was the job I wanted. I can't wait to get started.


I hope my comments didn't come off as me calling out new selects because that was not my intent at all and apologies if it did. It was poor wording on my part if it did. I was only wanting to address a potential misconception that some I have come across have expressed. Good luck to you! It's the greatest job ever, IMO. :D

MarkusAlan
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Re: Military Law

Postby MarkusAlan » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:37 pm

Hello friends.

I have my first JAG interview of any kind next week. I'm a 2L and am applying for the Navy's SP program. Any idea what to expect? From what I've read it's a pretty structured interview with "job related" questions. Can anyone explain this to me?

Much appreciated.

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:21 am

jjm123 wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:
jagapplicant2012 wrote:I've been posting little updates about the Army AD process for selectees. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up that Army AD selects from Dec. 2012 just were notified that some (at least 20) are not shipping for OBC until Jan 2015. Pretty tough to hear. They're looking for volunteers to take the later OBC class date. I have no idea what this means for future applicants (perhaps nothing).


:shock:


Does anyone know if the Army still has such a long backlog for AD selects to process?


I believe all or almost all of the people selected Dec. 2013 will have started JAOBC by this April. Last year's class was smaller than previous years so I think they were able to catch up. Still, a year post law school graduation is a long time to wait.

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:31 am

MarkusAlan wrote:Hello friends.

I have my first JAG interview of any kind next week. I'm a 2L and am applying for the Navy's SP program. Any idea what to expect? From what I've read it's a pretty structured interview with "job related" questions. Can anyone explain this to me?

Much appreciated.


Brooo I set up a thread for the Navy SP program, post there! I am also curious about your question.
Last edited by S. Goodman on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JEB
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Re: Military Law

Postby JEB » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:37 am

S. Goodman wrote:
MarkusAlan wrote:Hello friends.

I have my first JAG interview of any kind next week. I'm a 2L and am applying for the Navy's SP program. Any idea what to expect? From what I've read it's a pretty structured interview with "job related" questions. Can anyone explain this to me?

Much appreciated.


Brooo I set up a thread for the Navy SP program, post there! Anyway, I have my first interview ever with Jag next week too! (Navy SP program) I am also curious about your question, I was also told by the person that set up the appointment for the interview that the interview was structured as you said. Honestly I don't really think the interview is that big of a deciding factor in whether you're selected or not. For two reasons, (1) everyone can put on a good front for an interview and put there best foot forward, it is really hard to separate people based solely on that, and (2) you can apply multiple times without doing another interview. Good luck next week!



So, speaking as someone who got picked up my first 2L Board this last fall for the SP, you want to do your best on the interview. From what I was told, the interview score and your LSAT score are weighted and added together to form a composite score. While that score will not get you into JAG, it could keep you from it. If they want to narrow the field of prospective applicants for the selection board to consider, they will choose a composite score number and everyone below it is out. At least that's what I was told by the LCDR who gave me a tour of the RLSO after my interview.

So your interview is important. On that same note, I felt like I completely bombed my interview but I still got PR'd.

As for what to expect, you'll be sitting in a room with 2 officers (I had 3 because there was a LT observing so that he can qualify to do the Structured Interviews). They will alternate asking you a set of questions that will test your ability to respond to crises and be a leader. They will not give you any feedback while you answer the questions. They will not interrupt you or tell you that you can stop answering. They will simply take notes while you ramble on however long you ramble on. When you stop and are clearly finished answering the question, they will ask the next question. The set of questions is the same for everyone, and I believe it remains the same for the whole year (but I don't know when in the year they change them). What I can tell you is that you will not find anyone who will tell you what the questions were. One of the first things you will be told at the SI is that you must not reveal the questions to anyone, because that would give that person an unfair advantage, and the SI is a very important tool for providing a measure of candidate ability that is applied uniformly.

theinvisiblehand
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Re: Military Law

Postby theinvisiblehand » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:28 pm

JEB wrote:
S. Goodman wrote:
MarkusAlan wrote:Hello friends.

I have my first JAG interview of any kind next week. I'm a 2L and am applying for the Navy's SP program. Any idea what to expect? From what I've read it's a pretty structured interview with "job related" questions. Can anyone explain this to me?

Much appreciated.


Brooo I set up a thread for the Navy SP program, post there! Anyway, I have my first interview ever with Jag next week too! (Navy SP program) I am also curious about your question, I was also told by the person that set up the appointment for the interview that the interview was structured as you said. Honestly I don't really think the interview is that big of a deciding factor in whether you're selected or not. For two reasons, (1) everyone can put on a good front for an interview and put there best foot forward, it is really hard to separate people based solely on that, and (2) you can apply multiple times without doing another interview. Good luck next week!



So, speaking as someone who got picked up my first 2L Board this last fall for the SP, you want to do your best on the interview. From what I was told, the interview score and your LSAT score are weighted and added together to form a composite score. While that score will not get you into JAG, it could keep you from it. If they want to narrow the field of prospective applicants for the selection board to consider, they will choose a composite score number and everyone below it is out. At least that's what I was told by the LCDR who gave me a tour of the RLSO after my interview.

So your interview is important. On that same note, I felt like I completely bombed my interview but I still got PR'd.

As for what to expect, you'll be sitting in a room with 2 officers (I had 3 because there was a LT observing so that he can qualify to do the Structured Interviews). They will alternate asking you a set of questions that will test your ability to respond to crises and be a leader. They will not give you any feedback while you answer the questions. They will not interrupt you or tell you that you can stop answering. They will simply take notes while you ramble on however long you ramble on. When you stop and are clearly finished answering the question, they will ask the next question. The set of questions is the same for everyone, and I believe it remains the same for the whole year (but I don't know when in the year they change them). What I can tell you is that you will not find anyone who will tell you what the questions were. One of the first things you will be told at the SI is that you must not reveal the questions to anyone, because that would give that person an unfair advantage, and the SI is a very important tool for providing a measure of candidate ability that is applied uniformly.


Just to add to this, I'm a 3L who also got picked up for the SP this fall. The interview is 60% of your composite score, so it ultimately is the difference between the board even reading your application or not. The JAGs I worked with all told me before the interview that it was the most important part of the application.

edja0603
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Re: Military Law

Postby edja0603 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:47 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
edja0603 wrote:
But if you're coming in thinking this is a cushy, gov't, 9-5 job, you're going to be miserable.


I have about the cushiest gov't job you could hope for now. I "work" 25 hours a week, with 10 of those being office hours. I'm paid fairly well, have a pension and excellent benefits. I have had more than one person ask why I would want to leave my position.

I loathe going to teach some of my classes. It's the same subject with the same dead faces semester in and semester out. The law work I have done is more interesting because it's a new problem to solve and address every day. Sure, reading cases can be tedious, but you're looking for that little nugget that's going to let you trump the other guy. The fact that I get to serve my country at the same time is the icing on the cake. I think for a while there was this idea of "oh well at least the military is still hiring, it can't be that bad." And there were a lot of people taking the job that didn't really want to be there. From my first day of law school, this was the job I wanted. I can't wait to get started.


I hope my comments didn't come off as me calling out new selects because that was not my intent at all and apologies if it did. It was poor wording on my part if it did. I was only wanting to address a potential misconception that some I have come across have expressed. Good luck to you! It's the greatest job ever, IMO. :D


Oh I didn't think you were casting aspersions at all. I just wanted to echo the idea that if you're going to choice to join JAG, you should really want to do the job.

herring3279
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Re: Military Law

Postby herring3279 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:53 pm

Hi everyone,

I recently interviewed for the Air Force JAG Graduate Law Program. Other than feeling out of place in a black suit while everyone else was in uniform, I had an excellent time and think it went really well.

I'm not expecting to be chosen because the acceptance rates for GLP are so low, but I did meet a JAG at the office who was chosen his 1L year for the GLP program so it does happen! Also he had read all of this thread prior to his applying.

Obviously this is my first time applying so now I get to wait to hear from the board for the first time too!

uvandy
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Re: Military Law

Postby uvandy » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:56 pm

Question for those who have applied to several boards with the same branch - Do you use the same/similar motivation statement or draft a new one each time?

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S. Goodman
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Re: Military Law

Postby S. Goodman » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:30 pm

herring3279 wrote:Hi everyone,

I recently interviewed for the Air Force JAG Graduate Law Program. Other than feeling out of place in a black suit while everyone else was in uniform, I had an excellent time and think it went really well.

I'm not expecting to be chosen because the acceptance rates for GLP are so low, but I did meet a JAG at the office who was chosen his 1L year for the GLP program so it does happen! Also he had read all of this thread prior to his applying.

Obviously this is my first time applying so now I get to wait to hear from the board for the first time too!



Anyone have any idea of the selection rates for the other branches, and what that is looking like for this board? From what I've gathered from reading here the Air Force sounds like the most selective? Also seems that not a lot of people apply for the Marines, and I have no idea in regard to the Navy and Army. Anyone?

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:14 pm

S. Goodman wrote:Anyone have any idea of the selection rates for the other branches, and what that is looking like for this board? From what I've gathered from reading here the Air Force sounds like the most selective? Also seems that not a lot of people apply for the Marines, and I have no idea in regard to the Navy and Army. Anyone?


I think AR, AF, & CG are still around 9-10% acceptance rate from what I can gather. USN apparently jumped to 24% this past board, I don't expect that stat to hang around long. Their previous boards have been around the same 9-10%

uvandy wrote:Question for those who have applied to several boards with the same branch - Do you use the same/similar motivation statement or draft a new one each time?


I used similar statements, but changed them a good amount. Each branch has its own foci and specialties, and I talked about that. Also, AR & USN give you more space to talk than AF, so I adjusted accordingly.

My motivation for JAG was honestly similar for all 3. But working for AF changed that essay, & having family in AR changed that essay.

MarkusAlan wrote:Hello friends.

I have my first JAG interview of any kind next week. I'm a 2L and am applying for the Navy's SP program. Any idea what to expect? From what I've read it's a pretty structured interview with "job related" questions. Can anyone explain this to me?

Much appreciated.


So JEB and theinvisiblehand definitely explained it well. We were picked up by the same board. I was told after being selected that I interviewed quite well and that pushed me over. (Note: my grades both UG & Law are good, nothing outstanding. This interview can make your selection in my opinion)

In the interview they had set questions, although they'll certainly change for the new board.

This interview was in my opinion the most interesting. I had a LTCDR and a CPT, who had very different personalities. It made for an interesting, albeit tough interview. I really like military interviews; they're always mind-gamey.

I think the best thing you can do is be 100% honest. They will know if you're not being honest. And be personable and stay loose. As a USN JA, you'll be advising high-ranking CDRs, CPTs, and ADMs. You'll have to be quick but efficient to get the information across. A stilted interview won't convey that. They should see you as a good fit. I think people mistakenly think military commanders are robotic or gruff, when really they're just normal people with senses of humor. They'll appreciate your honest personality.

I stay conversational and relaxed (but always respectful of course). It's just my personality. But you should do you.

I had a AF SJA tell me she would rather take an intelligent candidate who can give you 90% of the answer quickly, over a very smart Harvard grad who takes days to give you 100%.
Last edited by shintopig on Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:31 pm

Having spent eight months deployed with the Navy:

O-2: LTJG
O-3: LT
O-4: LCDR
O-5: CDR
O-6: CAPT

All caps. No periods. And not the way any other branch does it (the Army is always 3 letters, all caps).

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=266

For O-3s: Army - CPT, Navy - LT, Marine Corps - Capt., Air Force - Capt

That period between "Capt. Patrick Bateman" (Marines) and "Capt Patrick Bateman" (Air Force) makes a world of difference.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:36 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Having spent eight months deployed with the Navy:

O-2: LTJG
O-3: LT
O-4: LCDR
O-5: CDR
O-6: CAPT

All caps. No periods. And not the way any other branch does it (the Army is always 3 letters, all caps).

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=266

For O-3s: Army - CPT, Navy - LT, Marine Corps - Capt., Air Force - Capt

That period between "Capt. Patrick Bateman" (Marines) and "Capt Patrick Bateman" (Air Force) makes a world of difference.



Thank you, I'll make sure to integrate all this in the future. I'll need to memorize it anyway soon.

I'm all messed up with my acronyms at this point, having extended exposure to AR, then AF, then USN.

And if you don't mind me asking, I always see your icon/profile picture on the front page of this forum. I think your first post (way back in '08) said you're AF JAG correct? And you posted recently I remember having completed your initial 4 years to give some insight. Have you been on a joint AF-USN base or something?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:02 am

shintopig wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Having spent eight months deployed with the Navy:

O-2: LTJG
O-3: LT
O-4: LCDR
O-5: CDR
O-6: CAPT

All caps. No periods. And not the way any other branch does it (the Army is always 3 letters, all caps).

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=266

For O-3s: Army - CPT, Navy - LT, Marine Corps - Capt., Air Force - Capt

That period between "Capt. Patrick Bateman" (Marines) and "Capt Patrick Bateman" (Air Force) makes a world of difference.



Thank you, I'll make sure to integrate all this in the future. I'll need to memorize it anyway soon.

I'm all messed up with my acronyms at this point, having extended exposure to AR, then AF, then USN.

And if you don't mind me asking, I always see your icon/profile picture on the front page of this forum. I think your first post (way back in '08) said you're AF JAG correct? And you posted recently I remember having completed your initial 4 years to give some insight. Have you been on a joint AF-USN base or something?


Image

Just kidding.

I was one of the initial posters way back in '08, when I was procrastinating from studying for 3L finals. I served my first four and then another two before very recently moving into the USAF reserves and a Fed civilian job. I have served at a joint base before but most of my Navy knowledge stems from my deployment that was Navy run. My two immediate bosses were Navy O-6s and operations were overseen by a Navy one-star.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:50 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:I was one of the initial posters way back in '08, when I was procrastinating from studying for 3L finals. I served my first four and then another two before very recently moving into the USAF reserves and a Fed civilian job. I have served at a joint base before but most of my Navy knowledge stems from my deployment that was Navy run. My two immediate bosses were Navy O-6s and operations were overseen by a Navy one-star.


Ahh, I see. Very cool. I'm always sort of amazed that this thread is going on 7 years.

jjm123
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Re: Military Law

Postby jjm123 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:15 pm

LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:
jjm123 wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:
jagapplicant2012 wrote:I've been posting little updates about the Army AD process for selectees. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up that Army AD selects from Dec. 2012 just were notified that some (at least 20) are not shipping for OBC until Jan 2015. Pretty tough to hear. They're looking for volunteers to take the later OBC class date. I have no idea what this means for future applicants (perhaps nothing).


:shock:


Does anyone know if the Army still has such a long backlog for AD selects to process?


I believe all or almost all of the people selected Dec. 2013 will have started JAOBC by this April. Last year's class was smaller than previous years so I think they were able to catch up. Still, a year post law school graduation is a long time to wait.


So if selected for the Dec 2014 board (I'm an alternate and a 3L), whats the time frame for processing now? I thought it was generally late winter/early spring the year following graduation and passing the bar, which in my case would be early 2016--but now Im not so sure. And do the AF and Navy have similar time frames?

drydendirty15
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:39 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby drydendirty15 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:54 pm

I got picked up on the most recent air force direct appointment board. I received an envelope in the mail yesterday (1/24) morning, no phone call or email (I check this thread pretty regularly and saw some others hadn't received any notification).

Stats:
2nd board
3L
median at t14
some mock/moot experience
secondary journal
1L summer state prosecutors office
2L summer interned for a fed circ judge

good luck all

runnergirl1
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Re: Military Law

Postby runnergirl1 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:04 pm

jjm123 wrote: So if selected for the Dec 2014 board (I'm an alternate and a 3L), whats the time frame for processing now? I thought it was generally late winter/early spring the year following graduation and passing the bar, which in my case would be early 2016--but now Im not so sure. And do the AF and Navy have similar time frames?


I was an alternate in the Army Dec 2013 board and will be heading to Fort Benning this April. Originally was set for June but they moved the entire class up. Also FYI I didn't receive an official offer until late summer. Hopefully that helps your time frame- good luck!

herring3279
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Re: Military Law

Postby herring3279 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:41 pm

I just wanted to update anyone waiting for Navy JAG internship results. I got an email today saying I was accepted.

I was planning on sending my app in for the Air Force internship but now I am not sure. Air Force is my top choice but I'm seeking advice on whether all JAG internships are viewed the same or if there would be an advantage of applying and holding out for an Air Force internship.

toster19
Posts: 44
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Re: Military Law

Postby toster19 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:30 pm

herring3279 wrote:I just wanted to update anyone waiting for Navy JAG internship results. I got an email today saying I was accepted.

I was planning on sending my app in for the Air Force internship but now I am not sure. Air Force is my top choice but I'm seeking advice on whether all JAG internships are viewed the same or if there would be an advantage of applying and holding out for an Air Force internship.



As a 1L I wanted Navy JAG. I did the Navy summer internship between 1L and 2L. Over the next few years learning about all the branches I decided AF was most suitable for me. During my AF interview they really seemed to value the stories I was able to tell about my Navy internship. I assume it also didn't hurt to tell them about my research into each branch and decision to ultimately chose AF.




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