Military Law

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xfactor9169
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Re: Military Law

Postby xfactor9169 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:03 pm

I was selected for the Army Reserves and received an email today with an official offer of acceptance for an AR-JAG position. They require my official acceptance via email by February 6, 2015.

QUESTION: I am still waiting on Army National Guard JAG results. Does anyone have ANY idea of when these results will be posted? I am hoping they come out sooner than the February 5th Army Reserve offer deadline. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by xfactor9169 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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twenty
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Re: Military Law

Postby twenty » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:16 pm

I'm curious to as why the preference for national guard over army reserves. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post your reasons publicly, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone express an interest in ARNG JAG over AR.

Puttanesca
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Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:44 pm

For anyone who attended Air Force COT - do you think it is helpful to have a printer, or is it not really necessary? I already have a printer. Just thinking about whether or not to bring it to COT.

Also, if driving to COT, are we allowed on the first day to return to our cars if we cannot carry everything we need in one trip? I should be able to take all of my uniforms in one trip, but it is possible I will have to make two depending on what exactly I bring.

Thanks.

xfactor9169
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Re: Military Law

Postby xfactor9169 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:30 pm

twenty wrote:I'm curious to as why the preference for national guard over army reserves. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post your reasons publicly, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone express an interest in ARNG JAG over AR.



For the national guard I could be attached to a combat team unit. The reserves has no combat team unit as far as i know. I always wanted to be an infantry officer so I guess being part of the combat team unit would give me more chances to be around guys who I feel I would get along with. Also, I was informed that a combat team unit would be more likely to deploy and I have a strong desire to deploy. Further, the national guard unit I would be attached to has a brand new facility which was just built and would provide a decent work environment. Additionaly, the national guard COL I met with said he has the funds to send me through specialty schools if I was selected for such opportunities. Also, my state has a special program where they have sent several JAGs to Israel for assignments and that woukd really appeal to me. On a final note, I really like the dual role of the NG and helping out for state issues if necessary.

I am more than happy to accept the Army Reserve position if the NG didn't offer me a spot. I would love to hear reasons why the reserves might be a better career move/more fulfilling military experience.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:48 pm

Puttanesca wrote:For anyone who attended Air Force COT - do you think it is helpful to have a printer, or is it not really necessary? I already have a printer. Just thinking about whether or not to bring it to COT.

Also, if driving to COT, are we allowed on the first day to return to our cars if we cannot carry everything we need in one trip? I should be able to take all of my uniforms in one trip, but it is possible I will have to make two depending on what exactly I bring.

Thanks.

I went to COT 2 years ago, and, yes, a printer was helpful then. They had a printer on the floor, but it wasn't reliably available. They may have improved that. If your printer can scan, that's very helpful too.

My stuff all got in the room in the first day or two, I believe. I think you could make a couple of trips, then sign in in front of the doors, and then proceed to go get yelled at for the next few days and be fine.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:51 am

xfactor9169 wrote:
twenty wrote:I'm curious to as why the preference for national guard over army reserves. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post your reasons publicly, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone express an interest in ARNG JAG over AR.



For the national guard I could be attached to a combat team unit. The reserves has no combat team unit as far as i know. I always wanted to be an infantry officer so I guess being part of the combat team unit would give me more chances to be around guys who I feel I would get along with. Also, I was informed that a combat team unit would be more likely to deploy and I have a strong desire to deploy. Further, the national guard unit I would be attached to has a brand new facility which was just built and would provide a decent work environment. Additionaly, the national guard COL I met with said he has the funds to send me through specialty schools if I was selected for such opportunities. Also, my state has a special program where they have sent several JAGs to Israel for assignments and that woukd really appeal to me. On a final note, I really like the dual role of the NG and helping out for state issues if necessary.

I am more than happy to accept the Army Reserve position if the NG didn't offer me a spot. I would love to hear reasons why the reserves might be a better career move/more fulfilling military experience.


Your role as a JAG in an infantry battalion is going to be the same as your role as a JAG in a supply battalion. It's a distinction without a difference. If you wanted to be an infantry officer...you kind of messed up by going JAG in the first place. Also, line officers tend to get annoyed with JAGs/chaplains/medical officers that seem to want to play GI Joe. I'm not saying you would necessarily be that obnoxious guy, but if your dream is to call in artillery support in the Korengal Valley you're going to be disappointed.

FWIW, I was an Army Reservist (not a JAG) who deployed in support of a National Guard brigade, so I have some perspective on both cultures. In general I think the National Guard is best for people who have longstanding ties to a particular state and don't plan on leaving ever. It's possible to transfer states in the Guard, but the culture in most Guard units is built around a bunch of guys from the same state. They all enlisted together and have been in the same unit forever, and a bunch of them likely work together in their civilian lives. The officers almost all went to the local state university where they were in ROTC together. It can get a little incestuous and clique-ish. It's not like anyone is going to be openly shitty to you if you're the new guy from out of town, but you may never be truly in the club. Now, if you're from the state, went to school there, and don't anticipate moving for your civilian career, that can be great. Lots of great local networking and opportunities.

The Reserves are better, in my mind, for people who expect to move around for their civilian jobs. It's a federal system, so it's much easier to do. It's also, in my experience, easier to volunteer for deployments/mobilizations, since you don't have to get the state's permission first.

Just my two cents.

xfactor9169
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Re: Military Law

Postby xfactor9169 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:03 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
xfactor9169 wrote:
twenty wrote:I'm curious to as why the preference for national guard over army reserves. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post your reasons publicly, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone express an interest in ARNG JAG over AR.



For the national guard I could be attached to a combat team unit. The reserves has no combat team unit as far as i know. I always wanted to be an infantry officer so I guess being part of the combat team unit would give me more chances to be around guys who I feel I would get along with. Also, I was informed that a combat team unit would be more likely to deploy and I have a strong desire to deploy. Further, the national guard unit I would be attached to has a brand new facility which was just built and would provide a decent work environment. Additionaly, the national guard COL I met with said he has the funds to send me through specialty schools if I was selected for such opportunities. Also, my state has a special program where they have sent several JAGs to Israel for assignments and that woukd really appeal to me. On a final note, I really like the dual role of the NG and helping out for state issues if necessary.

I am more than happy to accept the Army Reserve position if the NG didn't offer me a spot. I would love to hear reasons why the reserves might be a better career move/more fulfilling military experience.


Your role as a JAG in an infantry battalion is going to be the same as your role as a JAG in a supply battalion. It's a distinction without a difference. If you wanted to be an infantry officer...you kind of messed up by going JAG in the first place. Also, line officers tend to get annoyed with JAGs/chaplains/medical officers that seem to want to play GI Joe. I'm not saying you would necessarily be that obnoxious guy, but if your dream is to call in artillery support in the Korengal Valley you're going to be disappointed.

FWIW, I was an Army Reservist (not a JAG) who deployed in support of a National Guard brigade, so I have some perspective on both cultures. In general I think the National Guard is best for people who have longstanding ties to a particular state and don't plan on leaving ever. It's possible to transfer states in the Guard, but the culture in most Guard units is built around a bunch of guys from the same state. They all enlisted together and have been in the same unit forever, and a bunch of them likely work together in their civilian lives. The officers almost all went to the local state university where they were in ROTC together. It can get a little incestuous and clique-ish. It's not like anyone is going to be openly shitty to you if you're the new guy from out of town, but you may never be truly in the club. Now, if you're from the state, went to school there, and don't anticipate moving for your civilian career, that can be great. Lots of great local networking and opportunities.

The Reserves are better, in my mind, for people who expect to move around for their civilian jobs. It's a federal system, so it's much easier to do. It's also, in my experience, easier to volunteer for deployments/mobilizations, since you don't have to get the state's permission first.

Just my two cents.


TheSpanishMain, thank you for your insight and input. I actually agree with what you have stated. All my family is currently located in the the state I wish to serve in. Also, I am licensed to practice law in that state as well. My full time job is located in the state and I do not have any intention of moving states in the next 20 years. I have met many NG members who shared positive experiences for the ARNG in my state and I really liked most of these individuals on a personal and professional level.

I fully understand that my role as a JAG in an infantry battalion will be the same as a supply battalion. I suppose I just am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that the infantry soldiers in my unit would share similar interests as I do and would be a fun group of individuals to be around. I can understand that line officers might become agitated by me wanting to have a bit of GI Joe exposure but so be it. I cant deny that I enjoy many aspects of the infantry but I do understand and accept I will be a JAG and my role is that of a JAG. I can certainly live without having the opportunity to call in artillery support lol..but that would be pretty fun. The possibility for some exposure to infantry people/experiences, even if extremely remote, still is exciting for me.

Army Reserve of Army National Guard... both would be amazing opportunities for me. I am gladly going to accept one or the other. I just figure that if I am lucky enough to have an option between the two that I would go ARNG because of my above mentioned reasons.

FYI for anyone interested: I received a response from the MAJ in charge of releasing the ARNG results. He said he "should release the results soon. We are waiting for a meeting with The Judge Advocate General to certify the results." I was informed that the results will be released early next week.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:21 pm

Yeah, not trying to talk you out of the Guard, just some food for thought. Do you have prior service?

xfactor9169
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Re: Military Law

Postby xfactor9169 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:44 pm

No prior service. Selected my first go around for the reserves. I was working with the marines for a JAG spot last year but they canceled any openings for 2014 right when my packet was ready to be submitted. That was a sad day in my life because I had finally obtained a decent pft score (290 pft @ 205lbs). All the marines cared about was how fast an applicant could run.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:25 pm

navykev wrote:Not a JAG but a retiring Navy Command Master Chief (E9). Worked with Navy JAGs on mostly NJP (Article 15) type stuff -- so I can offer you that perspective.

As far as Navy life -- I can offer you a lot of perspective -- Ive been on small ships, big ships, in aviation squadrons, on staffs and boots on the ground in Iraq. Most JAGs at sea are on carriers or on afloat staffs. If you have any questions about that life -- let me know.


Gonna pm you. I'm in the recruiting phase (MEPS & Security) atm, and I'm just mentally prepping for the Navy life.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:52 pm

xfactor9169 wrote:No prior service. Selected my first go around for the reserves. I was working with the marines for a JAG spot last year but they canceled any openings for 2014 right when my packet was ready to be submitted. That was a sad day in my life because I had finally obtained a decent pft score (290 pft @ 205lbs). All the marines cared about was how fast an applicant could run.


Cool man, good luck.

Just for what it's worth, I'd be careful about how you convey the idea that you "like infantry stuff." I'm not saying that you're this guy or anything, but you have to recognize that there is a stereotype out there that some JAG/medical/Chaplain Corps officers really just have GI Joe fantasies and annoy everyone by trying to talk about things outside of their lane and posing. Just be aware that that stereotype is out there so you don't give the wrong impression. If you go in talking about how "enjoy aspects of the infantry" with infantry officers who have combat patches and Ranger tabs, the response is likely to be, "Uh, what 'aspects of the infantry' have you actually experienced, LT?" Again, just friendly advice. The best attitude to take as a new lieutenant is "I know I don't know anything, but I'm humble and want to learn."

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navykev
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Re: Military Law

Postby navykev » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:55 pm

shintopig wrote:
navykev wrote:Not a JAG but a retiring Navy Command Master Chief (E9). Worked with Navy JAGs on mostly NJP (Article 15) type stuff -- so I can offer you that perspective.

As far as Navy life -- I can offer you a lot of perspective -- Ive been on small ships, big ships, in aviation squadrons, on staffs and boots on the ground in Iraq. Most JAGs at sea are on carriers or on afloat staffs. If you have any questions about that life -- let me know.


Gonna pm you. I'm in the recruiting phase (MEPS & Security) atm, and I'm just mentally prepping for the Navy life.


Standing by!

hoepner33
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Re: Military Law

Postby hoepner33 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:32 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
xfactor9169 wrote:
twenty wrote:I'm curious to as why the preference for national guard over army reserves. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post your reasons publicly, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone express an interest in ARNG JAG over AR.



For the national guard I could be attached to a combat team unit. The reserves has no combat team unit as far as i know. I always wanted to be an infantry officer so I guess being part of the combat team unit would give me more chances to be around guys who I feel I would get along with. Also, I was informed that a combat team unit would be more likely to deploy and I have a strong desire to deploy. Further, the national guard unit I would be attached to has a brand new facility which was just built and would provide a decent work environment. Additionaly, the national guard COL I met with said he has the funds to send me through specialty schools if I was selected for such opportunities. Also, my state has a special program where they have sent several JAGs to Israel for assignments and that woukd really appeal to me. On a final note, I really like the dual role of the NG and helping out for state issues if necessary.

I am more than happy to accept the Army Reserve position if the NG didn't offer me a spot. I would love to hear reasons why the reserves might be a better career move/more fulfilling military experience.


Your role as a JAG in an infantry battalion is going to be the same as your role as a JAG in a supply battalion. It's a distinction without a difference. If you wanted to be an infantry officer...you kind of messed up by going JAG in the first place. Also, line officers tend to get annoyed with JAGs/chaplains/medical officers that seem to want to play GI Joe. I'm not saying you would necessarily be that obnoxious guy, but if your dream is to call in artillery support in the Korengal Valley you're going to be disappointed.

FWIW, I was an Army Reservist (not a JAG) who deployed in support of a National Guard brigade, so I have some perspective on both cultures. In general I think the National Guard is best for people who have longstanding ties to a particular state and don't plan on leaving ever. It's possible to transfer states in the Guard, but the culture in most Guard units is built around a bunch of guys from the same state. They all enlisted together and have been in the same unit forever, and a bunch of them likely work together in their civilian lives. The officers almost all went to the local state university where they were in ROTC together. It can get a little incestuous and clique-ish. It's not like anyone is going to be openly shitty to you if you're the new guy from out of town, but you may never be truly in the club. Now, if you're from the state, went to school there, and don't anticipate moving for your civilian career, that can be great. Lots of great local networking and opportunities.

The Reserves are better, in my mind, for people who expect to move around for their civilian jobs. It's a federal system, so it's much easier to do. It's also, in my experience, easier to volunteer for deployments/mobilizations, since you don't have to get the state's permission first.

Just my two cents.


I only have active experience (non-JAG) so I cannot comment on the Guard/Reserve differential.

But I think there is a difference between being a JAG in a maneuver/support BN in a deployment setting. An infantry BN is likely to be a battle space owner. This means that they are responsible for everything in a geographical zone. Anything legal related you would be involved as the JAG. Support units never really assume this role.

The other thing that I do not see a support unit doing is kinetic targeting which the maneuver BN/BCT might do. (Could be wrong on this...)

I don't know enough about what reservist JAG's do in a garrison environment to comment on that but suspect that Spanishmain is correct that there is no real difference.

I also agree 100% with the Spanishmain about your attitude going into any unit as a JAG. Wanting to be an Airborne Ranger will rub some people the wrong way.

Good luck with everything!

12law
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Re: Military Law

Postby 12law » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:39 am

Any word on when the results from Air Force's December selection board will be released?

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:01 pm

hoepner33 wrote:
I only have active experience (non-JAG) so I cannot comment on the Guard/Reserve differential.

But I think there is a difference between being a JAG in a maneuver/support BN in a deployment setting. An infantry BN is likely to be a battle space owner. This means that they are responsible for everything in a geographical zone. Anything legal related you would be involved as the JAG. Support units never really assume this role.

The other thing that I do not see a support unit doing is kinetic targeting which the maneuver BN/BCT might do. (Could be wrong on this...)

I don't know enough about what reservist JAG's do in a garrison environment to comment on that but suspect that Spanishmain is correct that there is no real difference.

I also agree 100% with the Spanishmain about your attitude going into any unit as a JAG. Wanting to be an Airborne Ranger will rub some people the wrong way.

Good luck with everything!



Yeah, I mean the jobs will be the same in that both will be sitting in the TOC doing lawyer shit. You may have different legal questions arise (for example, having female solders like you will in a non-infantry unit usually opens up a whole Pandora's box of issues) but it's not like a JAG officer assigned to an infantry unit is firing mortars just because he's attached to an infantry unit, anymore than a JAG officer assigned to a logistics unit is doing movement planning.

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Military Law

Postby bsktbll28082 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:04 pm

Anyone happen to know where the Air Force externship application is? Looked on main site, looked on USA jobs. I can't see to locate it :roll:

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:59 pm

bsktbll28082 wrote:Anyone happen to know where the Air Force externship application is? Looked on main site, looked on USA jobs. I can't see to locate it :roll:


"We will only consider complete applications submitted in hard copy . . ."

http://www.airforce.com/jag/entry_progr ... w_to_apply

xfactor9169
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Re: Military Law

Postby xfactor9169 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:44 pm

National Guard results have been posted.

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Military Law

Postby bsktbll28082 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:31 pm

shintopig wrote:
bsktbll28082 wrote:Anyone happen to know where the Air Force externship application is? Looked on main site, looked on USA jobs. I can't see to locate it :roll:


"We will only consider complete applications submitted in hard copy . . ."

http://www.airforce.com/jag/entry_progr ... w_to_apply


Right, but is there an actual application? Or do you just submit the requested materials (ie resume)?

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:02 pm

bsktbll28082 wrote:
shintopig wrote:
bsktbll28082 wrote:Anyone happen to know where the Air Force externship application is? Looked on main site, looked on USA jobs. I can't see to locate it :roll:


"We will only consider complete applications submitted in hard copy . . ."

http://www.airforce.com/jag/entry_progr ... w_to_apply


Right, but is there an actual application? Or do you just submit the requested materials (ie resume)?


IIRC there are some forms to print and fill out, they were basically an application. But the bulk of it is like your résumé and stuff.

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Military Law

Postby bsktbll28082 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:19 pm

spleenworship wrote:
bsktbll28082 wrote:
shintopig wrote:
bsktbll28082 wrote:Anyone happen to know where the Air Force externship application is? Looked on main site, looked on USA jobs. I can't see to locate it :roll:


"We will only consider complete applications submitted in hard copy . . ."

http://www.airforce.com/jag/entry_progr ... w_to_apply


Right, but is there an actual application? Or do you just submit the requested materials (ie resume)?


IIRC there are some forms to print and fill out, they were basically an application. But the bulk of it is like your résumé and stuff.


I called. They said it's just what's listed on the website.

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maxpayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:01 pm

Well, it's already Jan. 16th and no AF Dec. DAP Board results yet. This might be the longest wait in recent boards.

Rambo152
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rambo152 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:12 pm

maxpayne wrote:Well, it's already Jan. 16th and no AF Dec. DAP Board results yet. This might be the longest wait in recent boards.


Yeah, no kidding. I have refreshed this page so much in the past few weeks, hoping for some info. This has been the worst wait yet.
I did submit my Navy SP App this week, though.

mhylden
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Re: Military Law

Postby mhylden » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:34 pm

What page are you refreshing Rambo152? I'd like to join you in constantly hitting the F5 button.

mhylden
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Re: Military Law

Postby mhylden » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:35 pm

Ooops, misread that.

In my head I read "their page" not "this page."

I'll continue my refreshing of this page.

Tough wait for sure.




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