Military Law

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twenty
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Re: Military Law

Postby twenty » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:30 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote: Experience in labor, federal employment, and the like is very marketable. Information litigation (FOIA, Privacy Act, etc) is also extremely marketable and in demand. Ethics sells well, as does anything related to procurement/contracting/acquisitions. Folks with contracting experience will do very well when they get out. Having a TS or TS/SCI clearance is also very helpful, depending on where you want to go.


Hi Patrick, your comments on this thread has been infinitely helpful to someone (myself) looking to do JAG. I very much hope you decide to stick around even after you leave active duty.

Question concerning the above quoted; are those fields (ethics, contracting, etc.) difficult to get experience in within JAG? I can't help but think everyone and their cousin would want to do this kind of work for the exact reasons you articulated in your post.

Thanks.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:41 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:Over the years, there have been a few times the "JAG exit options" question has come up on the thread. I'm now in a position to add my two cents. I'm punching out into the reserves and the warm embrace of Federal civil service at the end of the calendar year. I will be joining the general counsel’s office of a Fed law enforcement agency but am not going to elaborate beyond that, nor my reasons for the decision to leave active duty.

Bottom line - you will be competitive as a JAG with Federal hiring but your options will be directly related to your subject matter expertise. Those getting out need to cast a very wide net and be ready for a long, slow, occasionally arbitrary, and sometimes demoralizing process.

For JAGs with a trial background like me (ADCs, STCs, etc) , the job focus is traditionally at USAO and DOJ. I landed interviews and callbacks with both. There are more divisions and individual offices within DOJ than I ever knew starting out – some are highly specialized where you need experience in capital cases, digital forensic cases, wiretapping warrants, etc. Some folks will be lucky enough to get that experience in the JAG Corps, some will not. I took the offensive with all of my courtroom and appellate time and sold it was “you can’t teach someone to be an effective trial attorney but you can teach someone X in a matter of weeks.” That generally sold well.

Unless you have an unusual background for a JAG that features a Federal clerkship, prior experience at a top law firm, or an elite law school pedigree, do not hold your breath for an AUSA position with any of the major offices (EDVA, SDNY, NDIL, etc). They do hire former ADAs and other folks with real trial experience like JAGs but it can be hit and miss. In that OSI was largely incompetent in my experience and I ended up doing a lot of trial investigations on my own, in addition to running investigations when I ran military justice at a base office, I was able to sell the whole investigations piece of being an AUSA in addition to my trial work. We are sorely lacking when it comes to doing high-level litigation involving anything financial or white collar, which is a very big piece of what the major offices do. A lot can come down to luck. Expect a very, very long process with USAO (a close friend went 4 months after submitting his app before hearing from them about an interview).
This same analysis applies if you are considering going to the white-collar practice division of any of the major law firms. You will have a number of strikes against you going in if you are the average JAG applicant (same reasons listed above – we are not what they traditionally hire) but it is very possible with a great trial background and a firm with an open mind. If you are considering this route, you need to work through a professional recruiter short of having an uncle who is already a partner at the firm. I was competitive with a half dozen impressive firms but had to make the lifestyle decision between a huge paycheck and a better GS lifestyle. Not sure if I made the right call or not.

There are a ton of other Federal positions, usually in general counsel offices. These are offices where exclusively trial experience can be a disadvantage because they don’t really litigate (that is what DOJ and USAO is for). Experience in labor, federal employment, and the like is very marketable. Information litigation (FOIA, Privacy Act, etc) is also extremely marketable and in demand. Ethics sells well, as does anything related to procurement/contracting/acquisitions. Folks with contracting experience will do very well when they get out. Having a TS or TS/SCI clearance is also very helpful, depending on where you want to go.

A big piece that I did not appreciate until I was there was the timing. Six years really appears to be the sweet spot in terms of marketability. Four years is simply too junior – you have not done enough at two base legal offices and maybe a year at ADC. You can sell it, for sure, and you may be fine (folks punch at four all the time). Eight years through ten can make you too senior and experienced for folks to be interested – they don’t want to have to pay you at the level your experience demands when they can get two mid-range people for the price of you. This applies double for law firms – six is the absolute sweet spot where you can still get hired as a senior associate two to three years before a partner decision.

The resume and cover letter cannot be overstated in terms of importance. They need to be perfect and that takes just hours upon hours of work. Further, they need to be individually tailored to each job with the right keywords. Kathryn Kraemer Troutman has a number of books available on Amazon that are extremely helpful – read them and also talk to anyone you know already in the Federal system.

Another piece is how good military pay is in terms of the tax benefits and all of the stuff we do not have to pay for (health insurance, etc). You really need to make a lot of money as a civilian to break even – I was absolutely shocked, even coming out as a O-3 with six years in. I was able to negotiate my way to a break-even salary, but it was not something initially expected. Run the numbers if you are toying with getting out.

Hopefully this helps. I have the feeling this will generate quite a few follow questions – I’m extremely busy at work over the next month or so, so I will do what I can, but take this as just a general guideline. I have zero interest in being the Federal hiring guru on this thread as there are just too many variables and I'm not getting paid for this. That said, those wearing the uniform or endeavoring to should feel relatively comfortable that there are solid options on the outside. Good luck.

Fantastic information. I'm debating what to do post JAG. I'd like to echo Bateman's comments about salary being better than you think it is. Further, I'm not sure I want a federal service job. There are a lot of benefits and there are a lot of negatives. I like how your job changes every year or two in the military. There's always a new challenge. I'm not sure I'd get that in every federal service sector.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:27 am

twenty wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote: Experience in labor, federal employment, and the like is very marketable. Information litigation (FOIA, Privacy Act, etc) is also extremely marketable and in demand. Ethics sells well, as does anything related to procurement/contracting/acquisitions. Folks with contracting experience will do very well when they get out. Having a TS or TS/SCI clearance is also very helpful, depending on where you want to go.


Hi Patrick, your comments on this thread has been infinitely helpful to someone (myself) looking to do JAG. I very much hope you decide to stick around even after you leave active duty.

Question concerning the above quoted; are those fields (ethics, contracting, etc.) difficult to get experience in within JAG? I can't help but think everyone and their cousin would want to do this kind of work for the exact reasons you articulated in your post.

Thanks.


The short answer is it is very possible to get experience in these areas but as always, it all depends. As has been discussed throughout the thread, the standard AF JAG model has you at two base legal assignments over four years, amounting to a total of two years in civil and two years in military justice. When working within the civil law divisions, you will get exposed to all that stuff. Fiscal and contracting law have been and remain common assignments for our deployed folks. Once you get out of base legal, you can request to be assigned to the real deal headquarters civil law directorate within AFLOA.

The "everyone and their cousin" conclusion presupposes that the sole motivation for a JAG is to gain marketable civil law experience in order to punch to a Fed general counsel position. This is not the case. A lot of us joined because the AF is the best for trial experience from the onset (in my opinion) and that we do it right competitively selecting our trial defense counsel from experienced trial counsel. I came in to litigate and frankly wanted nothing to do with contracts.

Another assumed value in your analysis (not attacking you or anything, I know you threw this out there as a hypothetical) is that just tons of civil law experience is going to be clincher for marketability. What made me effective as an applicant was that I had been very successful as a trial attorney and I also had some of that civil law experience. I sold all of those skills that made me effective in the courtroom as why they needed me instead of another applicant who arguably had more subject matter expertise. That all said, that approach would never get me in the door for a contracting position with the Fed govt or a defense contractor.

There is no right and wrong when it comes to this -- folks tend to gravitate toward their skill set and comfort zone and all of it can be marketed successfully to civilian employers if done by the right person. Sitting up at the HQ level now, we need civil litigation experts as much as we need criminal appeals experts. All necessary pieces to providing full spectrum legal advice. The AF imposes the "generalist" experience regardless -- civil law weenies will find themselves litigating motions and trial bros will find themselves steeped in the Federal Acquisition Regulation. If you find you have a passion for something, a good leader will encourage that but there is always the omnipresent "needs of the AF" that often takes priority.

dat209
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Re: Military Law

Postby dat209 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:10 pm

Noticed that the Army JAG Reserve application deadline was extended 2 additional weeks and that the Active Duty deadline was extended by a few days. Does anyone know if this has any significance (potentially low volume of applications for reserves, etc?)?
Thanks

hoepner33
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Re: Military Law

Postby hoepner33 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:31 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:Over the years, there have been a few times the "JAG exit options" question has come up on the thread. I'm now in a position to add my two cents. I'm punching out into the reserves and the warm embrace of Federal civil service at the end of the calendar year. I will be joining the general counsel’s office of a Fed law enforcement agency but am not going to elaborate beyond that, nor my reasons for the decision to leave active duty.

Bottom line - you will be competitive as a JAG with Federal hiring but your options will be directly related to your subject matter expertise. Those getting out need to cast a very wide net and be ready for a long, slow, occasionally arbitrary, and sometimes demoralizing process.

For JAGs with a trial background like me (ADCs, STCs, etc) , the job focus is traditionally at USAO and DOJ. I landed interviews and callbacks with both. There are more divisions and individual offices within DOJ than I ever knew starting out – some are highly specialized where you need experience in capital cases, digital forensic cases, wiretapping warrants, etc. Some folks will be lucky enough to get that experience in the JAG Corps, some will not. I took the offensive with all of my courtroom and appellate time and sold it was “you can’t teach someone to be an effective trial attorney but you can teach someone X in a matter of weeks.” That generally sold well.

Unless you have an unusual background for a JAG that features a Federal clerkship, prior experience at a top law firm, or an elite law school pedigree, do not hold your breath for an AUSA position with any of the major offices (EDVA, SDNY, NDIL, etc). They do hire former ADAs and other folks with real trial experience like JAGs but it can be hit and miss. In that OSI was largely incompetent in my experience and I ended up doing a lot of trial investigations on my own, in addition to running investigations when I ran military justice at a base office, I was able to sell the whole investigations piece of being an AUSA in addition to my trial work. We are sorely lacking when it comes to doing high-level litigation involving anything financial or white collar, which is a very big piece of what the major offices do. A lot can come down to luck. Expect a very, very long process with USAO (a close friend went 4 months after submitting his app before hearing from them about an interview).

For those very interested in working as an AUSA: USAO for D.C. has a unique structure with a huge amount of AUSAs that do ADA type work for 4 years (in that the District is all Fed, the AUSAs do all the normal prosecutions in Superior court) - still super competitive but they hire JAGs and it is more accessible than EDVA just down the street. The drawback is that you are not necessarily doing "real" AUSA level prosecutions but a foot in the door/courtroom is nothing to be overlooked. I have several friends who landed AUSA positions in more regional markets/less competitive districts as well. Those smaller offices really can come down to timing as they are only hiring now and again.

This same analysis applies if you are considering going to the white-collar practice division of any of the major law firms. You will have a number of strikes against you going in if you are the average JAG applicant (same reasons listed above – we are not what they traditionally hire) but it is very possible with a great trial background and a firm with an open mind. If you are considering this route, you need to work through a professional recruiter short of having an uncle who is already a partner at the firm. I was competitive with a half dozen impressive firms but had to make the lifestyle decision between a huge paycheck and a better GS lifestyle. Not sure if I made the right call or not.

There are a ton of other Federal positions, usually in general counsel offices. These are offices where exclusively trial experience can be a disadvantage because they don’t really litigate (that is what DOJ and USAO is for). Experience in labor, federal employment, and the like is very marketable. Information litigation (FOIA, Privacy Act, etc) is also extremely marketable and in demand. Ethics sells well, as does anything related to procurement/contracting/acquisitions. Folks with contracting experience will do very well when they get out. Having a TS or TS/SCI clearance is also very helpful, depending on where you want to go.

A big piece that I did not appreciate until I was there was the timing. Six years really appears to be the sweet spot in terms of marketability. Four years is simply too junior – you have not done enough at two base legal offices and maybe a year at ADC. You can sell it, for sure, and you may be fine (folks punch at four all the time). Eight years through ten can make you too senior and experienced for folks to be interested – they don’t want to have to pay you at the level your experience demands when they can get two mid-range people for the price of you. This applies double for law firms – six is the absolute sweet spot where you can still get hired as a senior associate two to three years before a partner decision.

The resume and cover letter cannot be overstated in terms of importance. They need to be perfect and that takes just hours upon hours of work. Further, they need to be individually tailored to each job with the right keywords. Kathryn Kraemer Troutman has a number of books available on Amazon that are extremely helpful – read them and also talk to anyone you know already in the Federal system.

Another piece is how good military pay is in terms of the tax benefits and all of the stuff we do not have to pay for (health insurance, etc). You really need to make a lot of money as a civilian to break even – I was absolutely shocked, even coming out as a O-3 with six years in. I was able to negotiate my way to a break-even salary, but it was not something initially expected. Run the numbers if you are toying with getting out.

Hopefully this helps. I have the feeling this will generate quite a few follow questions – I’m extremely busy at work over the next month or so, so I will do what I can, but take this as just a general guideline. I have zero interest in being the Federal hiring guru on this thread as there are just too many variables. That said, those wearing the uniform or endeavoring to should feel relatively comfortable that there are solid options on the outside. Good luck.

*Edits for clarity and more on the AUSA section.


Three questions:

1) How does the timing work? Do you decide to ETS and then start looking for a job, or does the government hire far enough out that you can already have a job lined up when you decide to ETS?

2) How geographically limited are the AUSA positions? Are people basically only applying in the district where their base is located, or are they applying all over the place (with the exception of the "competitive" districts)?

3) You mentioned it is often demoralizing in the job search. Can you go into any more details on this?

Appreciate the help.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:27 pm

dat209 wrote:Noticed that the Army JAG Reserve application deadline was extended 2 additional weeks and that the Active Duty deadline was extended by a few days. Does anyone know if this has any significance (potentially low volume of applications for reserves, etc?)?
Thanks


Still submitting mine by Nov 1st. Unknown why they extended it to the 4th.

All the documentation, several places on the app website & their Facebook still say Nov 1st.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:04 pm

hoepner33 wrote:
Three questions:

1) How does the timing work? Do you decide to ETS and then start looking for a job, or does the government hire far enough out that you can already have a job lined up when you decide to ETS?

2) How geographically limited are the AUSA positions? Are people basically only applying in the district where their base is located, or are they applying all over the place (with the exception of the "competitive" districts)?

3) You mentioned it is often demoralizing in the job search. Can you go into any more details on this?

Appreciate the help.


Timing: It all depends but generally, you are stuck going all in and letting the assignments folks know you intend to separate before it would be realistic to have a Federal job offer in your pocket. This is very variable intensive depending on when your date of separation is and when you are required to notify the assignments directorate of your intent to separate. Another issue is when you would be required to start with your new agency - some might be willing to wait several months for you (the larger the agency, the more likely this is) but if you are interviewing in November 2014 and will not have a DOS until July 2015, most offices are not going to be interested in a vacancy for that long. Sometimes you have security clearance investigations and other things that push out your start date, so it can work for you, but that is case by case. I recommend to all to have saved up as much leave as possible when you go into this process - it is a huge help to have 75 days to work with in terms of terminal leave and where you can start ahead of your date of separation if that is what the agency needs (banking a double paycheck in the process) or having that leave to sell back after your DOS (resulting in a nice check as well).

AUSA: You need to live in the district in which you would work, so most people are applying where they live or would be willing to move. DC is unique in that you have EDVA, DC, and MD all within a very small area. You generally need to demonstrate having ties to the area for the offices to take your seriously - they want someone that will be with them for the long haul.

Job search:

USAJOBs is not an ideal system - you will not get past the first review by HR if your resume and cover letter do not possess the right keywords, which means a very labor intensive retooling your resume and cover letter for each different job. I applied to over 40 jobs - I cannot even calculate how long I spent working on application related materials. Some agencies are great with updating USAJOBs to let you know where you are in the process - others never bother, so you don't know anything. The agency that ended up hiring me still has not changed my status in USAJOBs to acknowledge my application was received. Other agencies have "referred" me, meaning I should have been called for an interview, but I never heard from them.

It also just can take a while - people in Federal jobs explained it to me but I did not really understand it starting out. It can take 6-10 weeks for your resume to get reviewed and calls for an interview to go out. That is a long time to just be hoping you are doing it right, especially when you have a set date of separation looming. Those first six weeks were rough for me in terms of wondering if I was actually going to be marketable -- then things came together quite quickly around the six week mark and I ended up with maybe half a dozen interview calls in a two week window. It just took that long to move through the system.

mhylden
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Re: Military Law

Postby mhylden » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:19 pm

Any rumors (or even better non-rumors) out there about Air Force Oct. DAP Board?

The silence is killing me.....

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Military Law

Postby MarkfromWI » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:50 pm

mhylden wrote:Any rumors (or even better non-rumors) out there about Air Force Oct. DAP Board?


From the AF JAG Facebook page (from 29-Oct):
"We expect to release the results in November. If the results are not released by November 10, all non-select applications will be automatically reconsidered."

clg411
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Re: Military Law

Postby clg411 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:20 pm

mhylden wrote:Any rumors (or even better non-rumors) out there about Air Force Oct. DAP Board?

The silence is killing me.....


My husband called and they told him on Monday they expected results to be out yesterday, I'm guessing that didn't happen. Hopefully soon though, the silence is killing us too!

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maxpayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Just received a letter via email stating that I was not selected for the Oct. AF DAP Board. On to board #6.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:07 pm

Same. Just rejected via email with a PDF letter. This was my second attempt.

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BigJH18
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Re: Military Law

Postby BigJH18 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:27 pm

I just received a rejection PDF in an email as well. On to board #3 now. Congrats to anyone who was accepted

eas123
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Re: Military Law

Postby eas123 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:41 pm

Also rejected for AF JAG, 5th time.

You know...I've tried to do everything for the past 7 years with a focus on JAG. 3.8/T5 undergrad, 3.6/T14 law school, AF JAG internship & 2 USDOJ crim internships in DC, Vets Clinic director, Vets Law Society Board, vets alumni group co-founder, Chief Articles Editor journal experience, helped establish new veterans clinical course at the law school, prior DC military policy work, now legal fellow at a non-profit assisting homeless disabled vets. Long-distance runner, athlete, lots of fundraising for veterans causes. Every interview has been great, officers I've met have been very supportive, my current AF friends say it's all good to go. BUT THE COMMITMENT JUST DON'T MATTAH! #frustration #whining #herewegoagain

Rambo152
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rambo152 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:42 pm

Rejected from the October Board as well. On to December.

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shintopig
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AF Nov 2014 Board

Postby shintopig » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:44 pm

Nonselect as well. 2nd time. Blarg. Disappointing.

Lets roll it to the next one. C'mon board.

I can't select the next board on the online app. Anyone have any luck with this?
Last edited by shintopig on Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:47 pm

eas123 wrote:Also rejected for AF JAG, 5th time.

You know...I've tried to do everything for the past 7 years with a focus on JAG. 3.8/T5 undergrad, 3.6/T14 law school, AF JAG internship & 2 USDOJ crim internships in DC, Vets Clinic director, Vets Law Society Board, vets alumni group co-founder, Chief Articles Editor journal experience, helped establish new veterans clinical course at the law school, prior DC military policy work, now legal fellow at a non-profit assisting homeless disabled vets. Long-distance runner, athlete, lots of fundraising for veterans causes. Every interview has been great, officers I've met have been very supportive, my current AF friends say it's all good to go. BUT THE COMMITMENT JUST DON'T MATTAH! #frustration #whining #herewegoagain


I hope this post is a joke. If not the selection process basically is random unless your internship didn't go well.

eas123
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Re: Military Law

Postby eas123 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:38 pm

Not a joke. AF internship was awesome -- the SJA there has been a reference since '09. My suspicion: history of depression. I saw a college counselor as a first-year 7-8 years ago and then a therapist a handful of times about 5 years ago, and took a low-level med. (REALLY THREATENING STUFF.) Stupidly, I told every branch about it because I wanted to be honest -- dumb dumb dumb. I'm also in Navy medical processing limbo (I was chosen as an alternate in May) for that very reason. Navy is a different frustrating story entirely.

Does anyone also have any insight on whether being chosen as an alternate for Navy would have been a mark against me for AF...? Or maybe it really is all because of this scaaaary, scary mental health history. I don't know. So easy to say no to any of us these days.

Sincere congratulations to anyone accepted because I know how frustrating this process is, and how awesome it must be to hear "yes"!

Legalmind
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Re: Military Law

Postby Legalmind » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:57 pm

AF Non-select. On to second DAP board, but third board overall.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:36 pm

eas123 wrote:Not a joke. AF internship was awesome -- the SJA there has been a reference since '09. My suspicion: history of depression. I saw a college counselor as a first-year 7-8 years ago and then a therapist a handful of times about 5 years ago, and took a low-level med. (REALLY THREATENING STUFF.) Stupidly, I told every branch about it because I wanted to be honest -- dumb dumb dumb. I'm also in Navy medical processing limbo (I was chosen as an alternate in May) for that very reason. Navy is a different frustrating story entirely.

Does anyone also have any insight on whether being chosen as an alternate for Navy would have been a mark against me for AF...? Or maybe it really is all because of this scaaaary, scary mental health history. I don't know. So easy to say no to any of us these days.

Sincere congratulations to anyone accepted because I know how frustrating this process is, and how awesome it must be to hear "yes"!

With your stats, oof, that's rough. Sorry to hear. The history of depression might have something to do with it. If you're the USAF, why take applicants with black marks when there are other equally qualified people out there without that history? Plus, it's already really selective and even still, they're cutting current JAGs. It's not easy.

DannyBoy31
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Re: Military Law

Postby DannyBoy31 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:34 pm

I feel for those of you who have now been rejected multiple times despite having very competitive stats. Max especially...I remember reading posts from you back when I started this journey a few years ago. I wanted to share my experience with the hope someone out there has faced similar circumstances (or knows someone who did), and can let me know the end result.

I just recently graduated law school and passed a state bar exam. I was selected by the April 2014 board (on my 3rd attempt, 4th if you include OYCP application), but had already accepted another job offer since AF results did not come out until after graduation. I called my interviewer and sent JAX a detailed explanation of my situation, letting them know there was a good chance I'd reapply in the future after giving the job I had already accepted a shot. Long story short, I already realize I made a mistake in not following my true passion and am now reapplying. My interviewer genuinely seems to want me to succeed and nothing in my application package has really changed.

Although I'm well aware of the single digit acceptance rates, I was hoping that being selected by a previous board might be an indicator that I could get selected again within the next few boards, but returning to this site quickly reminded me just how brutal the process is. I know this situation is probably pretty rare, but I'd appreciate any feedback from people with knowledge on how this will likely play out. Thanks.

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maxpayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:41 am

Thanks for the shoutout DannyBoy.

Did anyone on here get selected? In the last 5 AF DAP boards, at least one person who was selected has posted in this thread or on airforceots.

flyer44
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Re: Military Law

Postby flyer44 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:54 am

I am honored to have received a selection. I received a call last evening after office hours. This is my first time applying. Here was my approach/stats if it's any help for those applying in the future.

High School: Valedictorian, community service, 4 varsity sports and captain
University of Dayton: Civil engineering, 3.7 GPA, club lacrosse
University of Dayton School of Law: 3.3 GPA, criminal law clinic, classes focus on trial and advocacy
Air Force Externship: Fulfilled externship period and then volunteered an additional month.
LOR: Supervisor and a Captain from Externship, Professor (former Army JAG), two elected officials I know personally in my community.
Other: Spent time since bar passage volunteering with a local prosecutor. Volunteer at Goodwill. Arranged coffee meetings with as many former JAGs I could find in the area.

Interview: I interviewed at my externship base so I knew the staff well. Casual interview. Went over my resume and asked basic questions on fitness, etc. One unique question was if I have shot a firearm before and they seemed to like my "yes" answer.

This is just a summary but I wanted to get this info out to the board since its information has helped me tremendously. Good luck.

71723
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Re: Military Law

Postby 71723 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:39 am

eas123 wrote:Not a joke. AF internship was awesome -- the SJA there has been a reference since '09. My suspicion: history of depression. I saw a college counselor as a first-year 7-8 years ago and then a therapist a handful of times about 5 years ago, and took a low-level med. (REALLY THREATENING STUFF.) Stupidly, I told every branch about it because I wanted to be honest -- dumb dumb dumb. I'm also in Navy medical processing limbo (I was chosen as an alternate in May) for that very reason. Navy is a different frustrating story entirely.

Does anyone also have any insight on whether being chosen as an alternate for Navy would have been a mark against me for AF...? Or maybe it really is all because of this scaaaary, scary mental health history. I don't know. So easy to say no to any of us these days.

Sincere congratulations to anyone accepted because I know how frustrating this process is, and how awesome it must be to hear "yes"!


Being completely serious, what prevents someone like you from just applying again and not listing that stuff. Do they keep records on your previous applications? It's absurd for a low-level, non-issue to preclude you from service.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:38 pm

Sorry to hear about all the DAP non-selects. Are you guys only applying AF?




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