Military Law

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mhylden
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Re: Military Law

Postby mhylden » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:15 am

How many others out there waiting for AF Oct. Board results? This was my first attempt so I am aware it is unlikely but still hopeful.

Top half of class at T3. Supreme Court of State Clerk. US Congressional Clerk. Prosecutor's Office Clerk. Attorney General Office Clerk. Four years in management at fortune 400 firm before law school. Not great undergrad grades.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:29 am

What kinds of classes you take in LS?

Puttanesca
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Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:42 am

Question for current or former active duty (doesn't have to be JAG): what do most people do about driver's license, car registration and stuff like that? I know you don't have to get a new DL or vehicle registration in the state where you're stationed, but I am currently a resident of a state which I will have no ongoing connection to once I leave (other than having passed the bar there). It just seems weird to have my car registered to an address where complete strangers have moved in, and to be paying personal property taxes on my car to a county where I don't live and don't intend to return to. Maybe that's normal though, I don't know.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:54 am

Id just change your address to your new state, frankly, unless the car registration is insanely expensive. Or try to list your permanent address as your parents house so they can forward stuff to you.

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navykev
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Re: Military Law

Postby navykev » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:49 pm

Puttanesca wrote:Question for current or former active duty (doesn't have to be JAG): what do most people do about driver's license, car registration and stuff like that? I know you don't have to get a new DL or vehicle registration in the state where you're stationed, but I am currently a resident of a state which I will have no ongoing connection to once I leave (other than having passed the bar there). It just seems weird to have my car registered to an address where complete strangers have moved in, and to be paying personal property taxes on my car to a county where I don't live and don't intend to return to. Maybe that's normal though, I don't know.


Usually you'll register your car in the state you are currently stationed in once your old registration expires. Some renew their old state's registration - because some states allow military to have an out of state address if their home of record is still that state. People from Texas seem to do this a lot -- more to do with state pride than anything else. Side note: the state I live in now, Virginia, waives the annual personal property tax they charge on vehicles if you are a resident of another state and provide them your military orders - even though I have Virginia plates. Each state has different rules but you want to check because there are many pro military laws that vary from state to state.

As far as your driver's license -- depends on the state -- some states have very liberal driver's license laws for military. For example - I am a resident of Washington State and my expiration date on my driver's license says "Military" -- as long as I have an active duty ID card -- my driver's license doesn't expire and I don't have to renew it. You'll have to check the state your from to see what their exact rules -- they vary as well.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:56 pm

mhylden wrote:How many others out there waiting for AF Oct. Board results? This was my first attempt so I am aware it is unlikely but still hopeful.

Top half of class at T3. Supreme Court of State Clerk. US Congressional Clerk. Prosecutor's Office Clerk. Attorney General Office Clerk. Four years in management at fortune 400 firm before law school. Not great undergrad grades.


Here. Good luck.

Legalmind
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Re: Military Law

Postby Legalmind » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:56 pm

shintopig wrote:
mhylden wrote:How many others out there waiting for AF Oct. Board results? This was my first attempt so I am aware it is unlikely but still hopeful.

Top half of class at T3. Supreme Court of State Clerk. US Congressional Clerk. Prosecutor's Office Clerk. Attorney General Office Clerk. Four years in management at fortune 400 firm before law school. Not great undergrad grades.


Here. Good luck.


I am applying as well.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:18 pm

Wrt the license/registration issues, domicile for state income tax purposes might also sway people to keep or change where they do these things.

Puttanesca
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Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:06 am

Thanks to everyone who replied re: license/registration issues. I think what I do will depend on what state my assignment is in.

coffee282
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Re: Military Law

Postby coffee282 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:44 am

Legalmind wrote:
shintopig wrote:
mhylden wrote:How many others out there waiting for AF Oct. Board results? This was my first attempt so I am aware it is unlikely but still hopeful.

Top half of class at T3. Supreme Court of State Clerk. US Congressional Clerk. Prosecutor's Office Clerk. Attorney General Office Clerk. Four years in management at fortune 400 firm before law school. Not great undergrad grades.


Here. Good luck.


I am applying as well.


same here. good luck to everyone! Really hoping we get those results in before the november 10th deadline! (too much to ask for?)

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maxpayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:49 am

In for AF DAP Board. This is my 5th attempt.

coffee282
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Re: Military Law

Postby coffee282 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:53 am

maxpayne wrote:In for AF DAP Board. This is my 5th attempt.



wow! were you applying since 1L? there's no way they won't let you in after all this time.

Legalmind
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Re: Military Law

Postby Legalmind » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:48 am

coffee282 wrote:
Legalmind wrote:
shintopig wrote:
mhylden wrote:How many others out there waiting for AF Oct. Board results? This was my first attempt so I am aware it is unlikely but still hopeful.

Top half of class at T3. Supreme Court of State Clerk. US Congressional Clerk. Prosecutor's Office Clerk. Attorney General Office Clerk. Four years in management at fortune 400 firm before law school. Not great undergrad grades.


Here. Good luck.


I am applying as well.


same here. good luck to everyone! Really hoping we get those results in before the november 10th deadline! (too much to ask for?)



I hope so too. But even if we don't, our packets roll-over to the December Board in the even of a non-select.

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maxpayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:02 pm

coffee282 wrote:
maxpayne wrote:In for AF DAP Board. This is my 5th attempt.



wow! were you applying since 1L? there's no way they won't let you in after all this time.


Nope. Started applying in April 2013, which was the end of my 3L year.

brando4545
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Re: Military Law

Postby brando4545 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:56 am

Has anyone heard if applications are down this year? The JAG I interviewed with for the Army said they are significantly down from previous years - although she also said its partly by design as they aren't recruiting as hard as in years past either.

coffee282
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Re: Military Law

Postby coffee282 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:29 am

maxpayne wrote:
coffee282 wrote:
maxpayne wrote:In for AF DAP Board. This is my 5th attempt.



wow! were you applying since 1L? there's no way they won't let you in after all this time.


Nope. Started applying in April 2013, which was the end of my 3L year.



oh so you're already barred? that's awesome. GL! I really hope that this is your ticket in this time.

brando4545 wrote:Has anyone heard if applications are down this year? The JAG I interviewed with for the Army said they are significantly down from previous years - although she also said its partly by design as they aren't recruiting as hard as in years past either.


and I hope that's true for all branches.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:21 pm

Anymore AF acceptance calls?

coffee282
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Re: Military Law

Postby coffee282 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:39 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Anymore AF acceptance calls?


has there been calls going out?

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Military Law

Postby UnicornHunter » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:56 pm

shintopig wrote:
mhylden wrote:How many others out there waiting for AF Oct. Board results? This was my first attempt so I am aware it is unlikely but still hopeful.

Top half of class at T3. Supreme Court of State Clerk. US Congressional Clerk. Prosecutor's Office Clerk. Attorney General Office Clerk. Four years in management at fortune 400 firm before law school. Not great undergrad grades.


Here. Good luck.


Did you get an age waiver 1SG?

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shintopig
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:27 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
shintopig wrote:
mhylden wrote:How many others out there waiting for AF Oct. Board results? This was my first attempt so I am aware it is unlikely but still hopeful.

Top half of class at T3. Supreme Court of State Clerk. US Congressional Clerk. Prosecutor's Office Clerk. Attorney General Office Clerk. Four years in management at fortune 400 firm before law school. Not great undergrad grades.


Here. Good luck.


Did you get an age waiver 1SG?


Ugh. Better to just scrap that 1SG profile pic/avatar. Its too misleading/confusing. Its from a video game; use for a lot of online profiles.

I'm not prior service. Sorry.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:19 pm

coffee282 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:Anymore AF acceptance calls?


has there been calls going out?


My apologies I just realized that I misinterpreted MaxPayne's post as him saying he's been accepted.

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abogadesq
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 1:30 am

Re: Military Law

Postby abogadesq » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:06 am

How competitive are ARNG JAG positions? How about with 2-4 years of practicing experience?

coffee282
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Re: Military Law

Postby coffee282 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:02 am

apparently airforce October board met last week. assuming 30-60 day turnaround period, earliest we'd hear would be the week of Nov 17th, latest being week of Dec 15th. Does anyone know what goes on in those boards? Like do they go through all the applications at one sitting?? (sounds like an impossible task, considering they get over 300 apps per cycle)

UFlaw15
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Re: Military Law

Postby UFlaw15 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:35 am

coffee282 wrote:apparently airforce October board met last week. assuming 30-60 day turnaround period, earliest we'd hear would be the week of Nov 17th, latest being week of Dec 15th. Does anyone know what goes on in those boards? Like do they go through all the applications at one sitting?? (sounds like an impossible task, considering they get over 300 apps per cycle)



Just curious, how do you know they met last week?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:34 am

Over the years, there have been a few times the "JAG exit options" question has come up on the thread. I'm now in a position to add my two cents. I'm punching out into the reserves and the warm embrace of Federal civil service at the end of the calendar year. I will be joining DOJ but am not going to elaborate beyond that, nor my reasons for the decision to leave active duty.

Bottom line - you will be competitive as a JAG with Federal hiring but your options will be directly related to your subject matter expertise. Those getting out need to cast a very wide net and be ready for a long, slow, occasionally arbitrary, and sometimes demoralizing process.

For JAGs with a trial background like me (ADCs, STCs, etc) , the job focus is traditionally at USAO and DOJ. I landed interviews and callbacks with both. There are more divisions and individual offices within DOJ than I ever knew starting out – some are highly specialized where you need experience in capital cases, digital forensic cases, wiretapping warrants, etc. Some folks will be lucky enough to get that experience in the JAG Corps, some will not. I took the offensive with all of my courtroom and appellate time and sold it was “you can’t teach someone to be an effective trial attorney but you can teach someone X in a matter of weeks.” That generally sold well.

Unless you have an unusual background for a JAG that features a Federal clerkship, prior experience at a top law firm, or an elite law school pedigree, do not hold your breath for an AUSA position with any of the major offices (EDVA, SDNY, NDIL, etc). They do hire former ADAs and other folks with real trial experience like JAGs but it can be hit and miss. I ended up doing a lot of trial investigations on my own, in addition to running investigations when I ran military justice at a base office, I was able to sell the whole investigations piece of being an AUSA in addition to my trial work. We are sorely lacking when it comes to doing high-level litigation involving anything financial or white collar, which is a very big piece of what the major offices do. A lot can come down to luck. Expect a very, very long process with USAO (a close friend went 4 months after submitting his app before hearing from them about an interview).

For those very interested in working as an AUSA: USAO for D.C. has a unique structure with a huge amount of AUSAs that do ADA type work for 4 years (in that the District is all Fed, the AUSAs do all the normal prosecutions in Superior court) - still super competitive but they hire JAGs and it is more accessible than EDVA just down the street. The drawback is that you are not necessarily doing "real" AUSA level prosecutions but a foot in the door/courtroom is nothing to be overlooked. I have several friends who landed AUSA positions in more regional markets/less competitive districts as well. Those smaller offices really can come down to timing as they are only hiring now and again.

This same analysis applies if you are considering going to the white-collar practice division of any of the major law firms. You will have a number of strikes against you going in if you are the average JAG applicant (same reasons listed above – we are not what they traditionally hire) but it is very possible with a great trial background and a firm with an open mind. If you are considering this route, you need to work through a professional recruiter short of having an uncle who is already a partner at the firm. I interviewed, and was competitive with, with a few bigger name firms but had to make the lifestyle decision between BigLaw and BigFed. Not sure if I made the right call or not.

There are a ton of other Federal positions, usually in general counsel offices. These are offices where exclusively trial experience can be a disadvantage because they don’t really litigate (that is what DOJ and USAO is for). Experience in labor, federal employment, and the like is very marketable. Information litigation (FOIA, Privacy Act, etc) is also extremely marketable and in demand. Ethics sells well, as does anything related to procurement/contracting/acquisitions. Folks with contracting experience will do very well when they get out. Having a TS or TS/SCI clearance is also very helpful, depending on where you want to go.

A big piece that I did not appreciate until I was there was the timing. Six years really appears to be the sweet spot in terms of marketability. Four years is simply too junior – you have not done enough at two base legal offices and maybe a year at ADC. You can sell it, for sure, and you may be fine (folks punch at four all the time). Eight years through ten can make you too senior and experienced for folks to be interested – they don’t want to have to pay you at the level your experience demands when they can get two mid-range people for the price of you. This applies double for law firms – six is the absolute sweet spot where you can still get hired as a senior associate two to three years before a partner decision.

The resume and cover letter cannot be overstated in terms of importance. They need to be perfect and that takes just hours upon hours of work. Further, they need to be individually tailored to each job with the right keywords. Kathryn Kraemer Troutman has a number of books available on Amazon that are extremely helpful – read them and also talk to anyone you know already in the Federal system.

Another piece is how good military pay is in terms of the tax benefits and all of the stuff we do not have to pay for (health insurance, etc). You really need to make a lot of money as a civilian to break even – I was absolutely shocked, even coming out as a O-3 with six years in. I was able to land a very solid GS level, but it was not something initially expected. Run the numbers if you are toying with getting out.

Hopefully this helps. I have the feeling this will generate quite a few follow questions – I’m extremely busy at work over the next month or so, so I will do what I can, but take this as just a general guideline. I have zero interest in being the Federal hiring guru on this thread as there are just too many variables. That said, those wearing the uniform or endeavoring to should feel relatively comfortable that there are solid options on the outside. Good luck.

*Edits for clarity and more on the AUSA section.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.




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