Military Law

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BamaNug
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby BamaNug » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:36 pm

Puttanesca wrote:
BamaNug wrote:Hello all. I'm sure it's an incredibly vague question, but inquiring about the chances as a 27 year old with 2+ years experience at a large law firm. Asking specifically about Navy JAG, but any input on the other branches would be much appreciated.

Some info:
-bottom law school, right around 110-120. I guess the 2nd best in Alabama?
-Top 5%, 3.8, law review and editorial board of the same
-Worked for 2+ years at one of the biggest litigation firms in Alabama (not big law, but big for Alabama I guess?). In court a lot, but no trial experience. Mainly behind a desk
-Former college football player (safety), and still in very good shape. Currently training for half marathon
-Grandfather was in Dday and stormed Normandy

Just interested in any general thoughts on my chances. Will happily clarify anything,


I think Navy is going to be the most difficult. They take only about 5 attorneys through Direct Appointment each year. From my understanding, most of the Navy JAG's are from the Student Program.

You seem like a good candidate for JAG in general though, but selection is such a black box it is difficult to know what your chances are. The college athlete part, your grades, and your litigation related experience will be looked upon very favorably. Do you have any public service or volunteer work?

Thanks for the response. Through minimal research, I've also seen that Navy JAG direct appointment is incredibly selective. I'm not deadset on Navy, but it would likely be my first choice. But like you said, it's really difficult to find and reluable info one way or the other.

Are Air Force and/or Army JAG as difficult?

Unfortunately, very little public service/volunteer work (I guess it's never too late to start, though).

Lastly, is it typical to apply for multiple branches of JAG? As in apply to Air Force/Army/Navy all at the same time? Or is that frowned upon in the admission process? I would imagine with how selective they are that's almost standard practice for applicants.

Puttanesca
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:10 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:08 pm

BamaNug wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:
BamaNug wrote:Hello all. I'm sure it's an incredibly vague question, but inquiring about the chances as a 27 year old with 2+ years experience at a large law firm. Asking specifically about Navy JAG, but any input on the other branches would be much appreciated.

Some info:
-bottom law school, right around 110-120. I guess the 2nd best in Alabama?
-Top 5%, 3.8, law review and editorial board of the same
-Worked for 2+ years at one of the biggest litigation firms in Alabama (not big law, but big for Alabama I guess?). In court a lot, but no trial experience. Mainly behind a desk
-Former college football player (safety), and still in very good shape. Currently training for half marathon
-Grandfather was in Dday and stormed Normandy

Just interested in any general thoughts on my chances. Will happily clarify anything,


I think Navy is going to be the most difficult. They take only about 5 attorneys through Direct Appointment each year. From my understanding, most of the Navy JAG's are from the Student Program.

You seem like a good candidate for JAG in general though, but selection is such a black box it is difficult to know what your chances are. The college athlete part, your grades, and your litigation related experience will be looked upon very favorably. Do you have any public service or volunteer work?

Thanks for the response. Through minimal research, I've also seen that Navy JAG direct appointment is incredibly selective. I'm not deadset on Navy, but it would likely be my first choice. But like you said, it's really difficult to find and reluable info one way or the other.

Are Air Force and/or Army JAG as difficult?

Unfortunately, very little public service/volunteer work (I guess it's never too late to start, though).

Lastly, is it typical to apply for multiple branches of JAG? As in apply to Air Force/Army/Navy all at the same time? Or is that frowned upon in the admission process? I would imagine with how selective they are that's almost standard practice for applicants.


AF and Army are probably not as difficult as Navy for direct appointment, but they are still difficult of course. I've heard that it is more difficult to get in as a practicing attorney than it is as a 3L, but I don't have hard data to back that up and don't know how true it is. FWIW, a bunch of Army JAG's I know practiced law prior to JAG (usually a couple of years at a prosecutor's office). They all got in pre-ITE though, so I don't know what it's like now. If I had to guess, I would say Army is easier than AF, just because Army has more people.

JAG likes public service/volunteer work, so if you can, do pro bono cases or volunteer somewhere in the community.

Apply to all of them. I only applied to AF, but that was risky.

rtb2008x
Posts: 44
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Re: Military Law

Postby rtb2008x » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:40 pm

3L here.. When is the time to apply to JAG?? I think some of the deadlines are approaching… Is there another chance to apply in the spring semester?

Thanks.

Puttanesca
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:10 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:03 pm

rtb2008x wrote:3L here.. When is the time to apply to JAG?? I think some of the deadlines are approaching… Is there another chance to apply in the spring semester?

Thanks.


Check the websites for the most current information. For AF, there is generally a December board (deadline in November) and an April board (deadline in March). I'm pretty sure Army did not have a spring board this past spring. I think Navy had a February deadline earlier this year, but not sure. Things could always change, so if you can make some of the fall deadlines, do so.

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twenty
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Re: Military Law

Postby twenty » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:27 pm

blink wrote:
twenty wrote:Navy doesn't commission JAGs through ROTC, Air Force's GLP/OYCP is almost as competitive as their direct commission option, so your only option left is Army. Army ROTC will take you, but they won't put you directly into JAG, you'd have to transfer over from a different group probably once you hit First Lieutenant.

I can see a benefit to doing it this way being that you could probably go for GFRD/SMP/DEDNG for the full ride scholarship 2L and 3L. The bigger question is, would you be happy being a non-JAG reserve officer for 4 years if that's how things ended up?


Can you elaborate? My opportunity is through Army, currently. Why won't they put me into JAG (if I got picked up)?

If I don't get JAG and become an officer in a different branch of the Army, will I be able to continue to apply to JAG and hope to transfer?


1) I've never heard of a program Army sponsors that allows a law student to complete ROTC while in law school and then commission as a 1LT in the JAG upon graduation. I know sometimes Army will defer undergrad ROTC cadets to allow them to complete law school and then to commission into JAG, but those people are locked into the program out of undergrad.

1.5) Think about it this way (not perfectly accurate, but it will do the job). ROTC will commission you as a 2LT. The lowest level "slot" available for Army JAG is as a 1LT. This is similar to how you can't go directly into Civil Affairs from ROTC.

2) You MAY be able to, but don't count on it. Speaking from my ass, it is probably a lot easier going from AR/NG -> JAG AR/NG than trying to transfer as an active duty officer. Of course, it's easier picking up a JAG spot in Army Reserve regardless, so...

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anon sequitur
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Re: Military Law

Postby anon sequitur » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:21 pm

.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Military Law

Postby MarkfromWI » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:40 pm

rtb2008x wrote:3L here.. When is the time to apply to JAG?? I think some of the deadlines are approaching… Is there another chance to apply in the spring semester?

Thanks.


Army JAG deadline is November 1, and they aren't doing a spring board in 2015.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:26 am

How long do you generally have to wait for your selected base to call and schedule your interview? Or will they email?

Puttanesca
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Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:34 pm

BruceWayne wrote:How long do you generally have to wait for your selected base to call and schedule your interview? Or will they email?


If this is for AF, I called the base. Didn't wait for them to contact me. Just call and tell them you submitted your application and would like to schedule your interview.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:34 pm

Puttanesca wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:How long do you generally have to wait for your selected base to call and schedule your interview? Or will they email?


If this is for AF, I called the base. Didn't wait for them to contact me. Just call and tell them you submitted your application and would like to schedule your interview.


Yea, I would agree with this. Don't be an ass and call all the time, but a lot of JAG officers are just so busy that they forget to return calls. I was persistent with the office here when I called about interning, but just make sure you're being reasonable.

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AT9
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Re: Military Law

Postby AT9 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:14 am

I started 1L last month and think that JAG (preferably AF, Navy second) would be my ideal "choice." As such, I'm trying to find ways to make myself more competitive in law school. Will joining and being active in a veteran' legal aid group/clinic be looked on favorably, or are school clinics relatively unimportant?

I'll keep reading through the thread, but any other tips about what I can do IN law school (aside from getting good grades) would be much appreciated. This thread has already been a huge help.

DEG1989
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby DEG1989 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:21 am

AT9 wrote:I started 1L last month and think that JAG (preferably AF, Navy second) would be my ideal "choice." As such, I'm trying to find ways to make myself more competitive in law school. Will joining and being active in a veteran' legal aid group/clinic be looked on favorably, or are school clinics relatively unimportant?

I'll keep reading through the thread, but any other tips about what I can do IN law school (aside from getting good grades) would be much appreciated. This thread has already been a huge help.


You will find lots of great information throughout this thread. JAG, much more so than other legal employers, legitimately considers the "whole person." With that in mind, consider volunteering as a Big Brother/Big Sister and running some road races or playing some intramural sports in addition to crushing law school.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:21 pm

Army info:

Korea won't be a first assignment anymore. Bad news because it was a near guaranteed way to get to Europe afterward.
SLRP is funded for the next five years, I think. So is JACP.
There are fewer applicants but there are also fewer spots.

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MarkfromWI
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:54 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby MarkfromWI » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:41 pm

DEG1989 wrote:
AT9 wrote:I started 1L last month and think that JAG (preferably AF, Navy second) would be my ideal "choice." As such, I'm trying to find ways to make myself more competitive in law school. Will joining and being active in a veteran' legal aid group/clinic be looked on favorably, or are school clinics relatively unimportant?

I'll keep reading through the thread, but any other tips about what I can do IN law school (aside from getting good grades) would be much appreciated. This thread has already been a huge help.


You will find lots of great information throughout this thread. JAG, much more so than other legal employers, legitimately considers the "whole person." With that in mind, consider volunteering as a Big Brother/Big Sister and running some road races or playing some intramural sports in addition to crushing law school.


I interviewed with an Army FSO last week for the 2L internship and asked him essentially the same question. He said that doing an internship over the summer (whether paid or volunteer) for any of the branches and coming out of it with a solid recommendation is probably the best thing you can do. His words were, essentially, that those with internships have been getting picked up at about a 70% rate. Even if you don't get one of the paid positions, contact a base and figure out a way to do a volunteer internship. They enjoy the free labor and are pretty accommodating (he said he let one of the volunteer interns spend the summer living on his couch).

Besides that, the FSO didn't mention this specifically but I've also heard that trial advocacy team and/or moot court are very helpful and looked highly upon.

ETA: AT9, FWIW I also volunteer with my school's veteran legal aid center. 1L might not be the time for you to start taking on too much extra stuff (you should be worried about getting the best grades possible) but the way I see it is volunteering at the veterans clinic sure can't hurt your chances...

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AT9
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Re: Military Law

Postby AT9 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:19 pm

MarkfromWI wrote:
DEG1989 wrote:
AT9 wrote:I started 1L last month and think that JAG (preferably AF, Navy second) would be my ideal "choice." As such, I'm trying to find ways to make myself more competitive in law school. Will joining and being active in a veteran' legal aid group/clinic be looked on favorably, or are school clinics relatively unimportant?

I'll keep reading through the thread, but any other tips about what I can do IN law school (aside from getting good grades) would be much appreciated. This thread has already been a huge help.


You will find lots of great information throughout this thread. JAG, much more so than other legal employers, legitimately considers the "whole person." With that in mind, consider volunteering as a Big Brother/Big Sister and running some road races or playing some intramural sports in addition to crushing law school.


I interviewed with an Army FSO last week for the 2L internship and asked him essentially the same question. He said that doing an internship over the summer (whether paid or volunteer) for any of the branches and coming out of it with a solid recommendation is probably the best thing you can do. His words were, essentially, that those with internships have been getting picked up at about a 70% rate. Even if you don't get one of the paid positions, contact a base and figure out a way to do a volunteer internship. They enjoy the free labor and are pretty accommodating (he said he let one of the volunteer interns spend the summer living on his couch).

Besides that, the FSO didn't mention this specifically but I've also heard that trial advocacy team and/or moot court are very helpful and looked highly upon.

ETA: AT9, FWIW I also volunteer with my school's veteran legal aid center. 1L might not be the time for you to start taking on too much extra stuff (you should be worried about getting the best grades possible) but the way I see it is volunteering at the veterans clinic sure can't hurt your chances...


Thank you both! I don't plan on getting too involved yet, but I'll still help where I can. I'm going to try my best at getting an internship this summer and/or next.

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:52 pm

Esquire wrote:Army info:

Korea won't be a first assignment anymore. Bad news because it was a near guaranteed way to get to Europe afterward.
SLRP is funded for the next five years, I think. So is JACP.
There are fewer applicants but there are also fewer spots.


Is there any reason for the change re: Korea?

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shintopig
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:21 am

Thought I'd post in here; I've been ghosting this thread since I started law school in 2012. JAG is the choice career for me.

Just finished interviews for Navy, Air Force & Army JAGS. I feel good about the apps, but I have no idea what exact magic the boards use to decide what a "whole person" concept equates to. Fingers crossed.

Definitely enjoyed the Navy's set-standard questions. Army was not bad at all; only one of the branches to send a JA to my law school for the interview. Air Force asked about my tickets; ugh.

Anyone else drop/going to drop applications for these?
Last edited by shintopig on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:16 am, edited 3 times in total.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Military Law

Postby MarkfromWI » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:14 pm

shintopig wrote:Anyone else drop/going to drop applications for these?


In the process of submitting my AF JAG OYCP application and the Army 2L internship app also. Had the interview for Army a little over 2 weeks ago but still need to set up an interview for AF. Also, I do plan on throwing an app at the AF 2L internship when that opens up (but that won't be until around February or so...) since the OYCP only takes ~5 people a year.

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shintopig
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Re: Military Law

Postby shintopig » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:10 pm

MarkfromWI wrote:In the process of submitting my AF JAG OYCP application and the Army 2L internship app also. Had the interview for Army a little over 2 weeks ago but still need to set up an interview for AF. Also, I do plan on throwing an app at the AF 2L internship when that opens up (but that won't be until around February or so...) since the OYCP only takes ~5 people a year.


Yeah its best though to get your name in though to the AF Board while you can. I applied GLP, the AF program for 1Ls, and missed the OYCP Board. I think for GLP they took 2 people my year.

Either way, I think more important than it being a narrow possibility of selection, OYCP or GLP are really good opportunities to get your name in. Every time I talk to JAs from any branch, they say to re-apply if you're a non-select and that it means a lot to re-apply. It shows your dedicated and really want the position.

So even if you don't get it; you're already ahead come DAP time when everyone applies.

All the best!

Karl123456
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Karl123456 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:46 am

How long after boards, on the chance I got in, would I start work?

For the March/April boards would I start before June?

Puttanesca
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Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:09 am

Karl123456 wrote:How long after boards, on the chance I got in, would I start work?

For the March/April boards would I start before June?


Not sure which service you are talking about, but I highly doubt you would start before June. First, you have to wait for the selection results (e.g. for AF in April 2014, selection decisions were not released until mid-May). Second, even if you are already a licensed attorney and don't have to wait for bar results, you still need to be medically cleared, which will take some time. Third, you can't just start anytime: you start when there is an available training class.

Karl123456
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Re: Military Law

Postby Karl123456 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:48 pm

Puttanesca wrote:
Karl123456 wrote:How long after boards, on the chance I got in, would I start work?

For the March/April boards would I start before June?


Not sure which service you are talking about, but I highly doubt you would start before June. First, you have to wait for the selection results (e.g. for AF in April 2014, selection decisions were not released until mid-May). Second, even if you are already a licensed attorney and don't have to wait for bar results, you still need to be medically cleared, which will take some time. Third, you can't just start anytime: you start when there is an available training class.


Thanks. I have a contract that runs out early June, and would like to avoid bailing early if possible.

DEG1989
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby DEG1989 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:05 pm

Hi all, quick question for any Navy JAs. Can I wear contacts at ODS? If not, am I issued a pair of glasses or should I report with a particular kind? Thanks.

Kivan
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:03 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Kivan » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:08 pm

ARNG question:

I submitted my application packet to the OSM.

Got my medical, vision, H&W measurements done.

Got my fingerprints taken care of

Interview, all of it.

My entire packet was complete and sent in back in June.

When should I expect to hear back from the NGB so that I can be sworn in?

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:10 pm

Kivan wrote:When should I expect to hear back from the NGB so that I can be sworn in?


The National Guard takes bureaucracy, inefficiency, and glacial pacing to Soviet levels. I'd just call and check on it, honestly.

shintopig wrote:
Definitely enjoyed the Navy's set-standard questions.


Can you elaborate on this, (First Sergeant?) ?




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