Military Law

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the lantern
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Re: Military Law

Postby the lantern » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:32 am

ArkansasFan wrote:I'm tempted to just apply for AFROTC, via cheapo master's degree, or OTS and do something then leave with the GI Bill in hand and go to law school or stay and have fun doing whatever. This comes after reflecting on military JAG and seeing other opportunities.


If you accept a ROTC scholarship (even if you don't complete the program), you forfeit the GI Bill. This happened to me.

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:36 am

the lantern wrote:
ArkansasFan wrote:I'm tempted to just apply for AFROTC, via cheapo master's degree, or OTS and do something then leave with the GI Bill in hand and go to law school or stay and have fun doing whatever. This comes after reflecting on military JAG and seeing other opportunities.


If you accept a ROTC scholarship (even if you don't complete the program), you forfeit the GI Bill. This happened to me.

That only applied to Montgomery GI Bill. With post 9/11 Gi Bill, the only caveat is you can't count mandatory service time from ROTC or service academies as qualifying time for eligibility.
[edit to add...]
So if ROTC is a 5 year commitment (not sure if all are the same), you would have to do 8 years to be eligible for 100% benefit (including Yellow Ribbon). Anything from 90 days up to 3 years gives you fractional benefit (but no YRP). See the thread called "New GI Bill" or visit gibill.va.gov for more info.
Last edited by Rotor on Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

the lantern
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Re: Military Law

Postby the lantern » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:40 am

Well it is certainly nice to know that if I went into the military three years later I could have had a free education instead of paying back the DOD $50k...

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:45 am

the lantern wrote:Well it is certainly nice to know that if I went into the military three years later I could have had a free education instead of paying back the DOD $50k...

Post 9/11 is based on when you served, not when you joined. Did you serve any time beyond your commitment post 9/11?

the lantern
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Re: Military Law

Postby the lantern » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:50 am

Rotor wrote:
the lantern wrote:Well it is certainly nice to know that if I went into the military three years later I could have had a free education instead of paying back the DOD $50k...

Post 9/11 is Based on when you served, not when you joined. Did you serve any time beyond your commitment post 9/11?

I enlisted in July 2002. I signed up for the GI Bill and paid into it. I got released from active duty to accept a full ROTC scholarship. I had serious medical problems that I had to quit ROTC because of. The DOD sends me a bill for $33k+ a few months later... still trying to pay that thing off. Called the VA education person at my school and they said I am not eligible for the GI Bill. I don't know anything about the Yellow Ribbon Program, but I assumed I did not qualify for it. Are you saying I might qualify?

btw sorry for being off topic!

CyLaw
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Re: Military Law

Postby CyLaw » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:55 am

the lantern wrote:I enlisted in July 2002. I signed up for the GI Bill and paid into it. I got released from active duty to accept a full ROTC scholarship. I had serious medical problems that I had to quit ROTC because of. The DOD sends me a bill for $33k+ a few months later... still trying to pay that thing off. Called the VA education person at my school and they said I am not eligible for the GI Bill. I don't know anything about the Yellow Ribbon Program, but I assumed I did not qualify for it. Are you saying I might qualify?

btw sorry for being off topic!


With all the changes to the new GI Bill, your VA person at your school may not have the answers you need. I suggest calling the VA directly. They have been pretty good so far fielding my questions about the new gi bill.

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:53 am

CyLaw wrote:
the lantern wrote:I enlisted in July 2002. I signed up for the GI Bill and paid into it. I got released from active duty to accept a full ROTC scholarship. I had serious medical problems that I had to quit ROTC because of. The DOD sends me a bill for $33k+ a few months later... still trying to pay that thing off. Called the VA education person at my school and they said I am not eligible for the GI Bill. I don't know anything about the Yellow Ribbon Program, but I assumed I did not qualify for it. Are you saying I might qualify?

btw sorry for being off topic!


With all the changes to the new GI Bill, your VA person at your school may not have the answers you need. I suggest calling the VA directly. They have been pretty good so far fielding my questions about the new gi bill.

Making a couple of assumptions about your situation a) that you were enlisted for at least 90 days and b) you didn't have any mandatory service as a result of your ROTC time (otherwise you wouldn't have been given a bill to pay back. In this case you would be eligible to pay for future school with post 9/11 GI Bill at some percentage. You won't be able to retroactively pay that past bill though. ^ is correct, though. Go direct to the VA (or a service group you may be affiliated with like AmVets, VFW, AF Mutual Aid etc. before trusting what your school counsellor might say. Good luck.

jjleague
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Re: Military Law

Postby jjleague » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:56 pm

I would definitely recommend calling the VA. I have found them very pleasent and knowledgable about the VA Education info, the number is 1-888-GI-BILL-1 (1-888-442-4551).

I have read through some of this and am presently in the Coast Guard. I can't speak for the other services but I plan on having the CG pay for my law degree. I'll be on active duty the entire time receiving my base pay, BAH, etc just like I would at any duty station except I my job will be to get a JD. The CG will pay for my tuition; books, fees and other costs will be my responsibility. I am only obligated for 5 years of service after I recieve my degree. Passing the bar in any state of my choosing is also a requirement. The don't go too much off the link on pricing as I know several lawyers who went to Tulane and the tuition was covered 100%. Once you graduate you then work in multiple disciplines so you get a broad knowledge of law rather than a focused view.

There are other CG programs like Direct Commission where you get your JD on your dime and then join and don't have the 5 year obligated service but you are still on the hook for the school and are not getting paid while in school, thus relieving yourself of the stress of money.

Here is the link for the program or just google USCG Advanced Education Law JD. The link is on the public side of the server so everyone should be able to see it.
http://www.uscg.mil/directives/ci/1000- ... 524_2A.pdf

Of all the two services (Navy and CG) I have been in the CG is the best, particularly if you are older and have a family. The deployments are better.

Let me know if you have other questions or drop me a PM. If I don't know the answer I can find it out pretty easy.

texaslawyer
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Re: Military Law

Postby texaslawyer » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:06 pm

JJLeague Great post ! I worked in the shipyards while I was in UG and I got to know some Coast Guard JAGS. It's not a bad way of life and if you want to be a litigator, they throw you into the briar patch very quickly. I was going to be a Marine aviator/JAG until a massive knee injury derailed these ambitions. Next life. Good luck to you.

the lantern
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Re: Military Law

Postby the lantern » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:29 pm

I'll check things out and let you all know. It might help me pay for my law degree which would be amazing considering how far I am in debt from my UG education. I'm hoping that I may be eligible for JAG but if Marine JAG is at all competitive I imagine I have no chance because even though I had a stellar service record, I disenrolled myself from ROTC. They said I can reenlist but I think that will be a huge black mark towards any sort of officer accession. Oh well. I'll check things out and let you all know how it goes. Thanks for the help.

texaslawyer
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Re: Military Law

Postby texaslawyer » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:58 pm

The Lantern, disenrolling from ROTC might not hurt you as much as you might fear. I will give you this caveat about the Marine JAG program. Marine OCS is no joke. You better want it more than anything in the world. If you aren't committed to the last strand of your DNA you will be out of there so fast it will make you head spin ! I remember when I was in OCS, lo these many years ago our DI was a Recon Marine, the equivalent of a Navy SEAL. Bad ass Marine. He was 5'9", 190 lbs and hated aviation candidates with a passion. He wasn't wild about JAG candidates either. I learned very early on to comply with his every little request and I might be OK. There was a candiate from UC Berkeley who reported with shoulder length hair and a big flowing full beard. I thought this poor guy was toast. I thought he was going to shit a brick when they shaved his head and beard. Anyway, best Marine I ever saw, went Recon, top graduate in OCS and retired as a Major General. He wanted to be a Marine officer more than anything and he was cracker jack. The Marines will probably give you a shot, but be in the best physical shape of your life and develop a very tough skin. Remember the DI's duty is to break your ass and run you off. Don't let them win. It's a game, remember that and you'll do fine.

the lantern
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Re: Military Law

Postby the lantern » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:22 pm

texaslawyer wrote:The Lantern, disenrolling from ROTC might not hurt you as much as you might fear. I will give you this caveat about the Marine JAG program. Marine OCS is no joke. You better want it more than anything in the world. If you aren't committed to the last strand of your DNA you will be out of there so fast it will make you head spin ! I remember when I was in OCS, lo these many years ago our DI was a Recon Marine, the equivalent of a Navy SEAL. Bad ass Marine. He was 5'9", 190 lbs and hated aviation candidates with a passion. He wasn't wild about JAG candidates either. I learned very early on to comply with his every little request and I might be OK. There was a candiate from UC Berkeley who reported with shoulder length hair and a big flowing full beard. I thought this poor guy was toast. I thought he was going to shit a brick when they shaved his head and beard. Anyway, best Marine I ever saw, went Recon, top graduate in OCS and retired as a Major General. He wanted to be a Marine officer more than anything and he was cracker jack. The Marines will probably give you a shot, but be in the best physical shape of your life and develop a very tough skin. Remember the DI's duty is to break your ass and run you off. Don't let them win. It's a game, remember that and you'll do fine.


I was literally like a few weeks from going to OCS... I trained nearly every day for 3 years to do it. I know the 5 paragraph order, all the book knowledge, etc. At my physical peak (which I am not at currently), I would have no problem passing OCS, barring injury. My ROTC unit was not a cakewalk like many others are. I am prior enlisted with certificates of commendation, other awards, etc. I had mental health issues that led me to disenroll from ROTC. I loved being an active duty Marine but I hated doing ROTC, college (pre med at the time), and working part time (all when I was an immature 20-22 year old). I had Marine OCS drilled into my head nearly every day of my undergraduate education, so that is really the least of my worries. I guess the best thing I can do is keep myself in shape throughout law school. I hear a lot of people let themselves deteriorate physically because there is such a heavy workload and so much stress. Also, is there an age limit for JAGs? I will be 29 when I graduate law school.

Actually, I would love to go to Marine OCS and I would love the basic school even more. I'm anxious to call the VA tomorrow and see what they have to tell me about this yellow ribbon thing.

edit: UGH JAGs probably have to do 10 week OCS huh? :)

movieguru873
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Re: Military Law

Postby movieguru873 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:33 pm

So I've been reading through these posts and I noticed that the acceptance rates for direct appointment into the air force jag is around 7-11%.
The 2 question that I have are thus,
Number 1. what is the acceptance rates into the GLP and OYCP programs? I heard that these were much easier to get into than direct appointmen.
Number 2. Since entry into these programs takes place early in the law school career, what are the determinants in getting accepted? Is it law school grades up until that point?

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J-Rod
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Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:04 am

movieguru873 wrote:So I've been reading through these posts and I noticed that the acceptance rates for direct appointment into the air force jag is around 7-11%.
The 2 question that I have are thus,
Number 1. what is the acceptance rates into the GLP and OYCP programs? I heard that these were much easier to get into than direct appointmen.
Number 2. Since entry into these programs takes place early in the law school career, what are the determinants in getting accepted? Is it law school grades up until that point?


Q1: It is easier, but still very hard. The acceptance rates for the GLP and OYCP are still very low, especially since the # of applications has skyrocketed recently. I wouldn't put it much higher, maybe 15-20% if you're in a small pool of applicants.

Q2: Law school grades, recommendation letters, resume', other soft factors like community service, past work experience, etc.

BHL
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Re: Military Law

Postby BHL » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:59 am

movieguru873 wrote:So I've been reading through these posts and I noticed that the acceptance rates for direct appointment into the air force jag is around 7-11%.
The 2 question that I have are thus,
Number 1. what is the acceptance rates into the GLP and OYCP programs? I heard that these were much easier to get into than direct appointmen.
Number 2. Since entry into these programs takes place early in the law school career, what are the determinants in getting accepted? Is it law school grades up until that point?

1) I was accepted into the OYCP and heard that the AF only selected like 5 people (from the Col. at my school). He never mentioned how many people applied, but I'm guessing that it doesn't matter too much since they accept so few that the percentage probably isn't statistically significant. Additionally, as J-Rod points out, applications are up, so the percentage likely fell to an even lower rate.
2) The interview is the same for OCYP as it is for Direct Appointment. I expect the criteria to be exactly the same except for whether your school has an AF ROTC. However, I imagine a proven track record in which you worked and went to school might help since ROTC on top of law school makes for a tight schedule. Thus, working 20 hours/week during undergrad and making solid grades probably helps more for the GLP and OYCP applications than it does for Direct Appointment. This is just an example, but anything that shows you can handle a heavy workload on top of school probably helps more for these programs than DAP.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:03 am

When do we hear from the Navy?

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J-Rod
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Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:23 am

Esquire wrote:When do we hear from the Navy?



According to their schedule, sometime within the next two weeks I would think . . . here's hoping for good news!

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:20 pm

Results for Navy sent out.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:17 pm

Word around the campfire is that the Oct board for AF JAG Direct Appointment hit 255, with 20 selected.

Hope everyone is doing well.

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J-Rod
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Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:29 pm

First Board for Navy JAG came out a few weeks ago, so congrats if anyone on here got it! Deadline for board #2 is in a few days!

amped
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Re: Military Law

Postby amped » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:13 pm

Anyone else having trouble accessing the Army internship application site?

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Undead_Ed
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Re: Military Law

Postby Undead_Ed » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:57 pm

amped wrote:Anyone else having trouble accessing the Army internship application site?


The Army JAG website is totally bogged down. I was on the site last night just looking for an update. The 3L Active Duty applications are due today along with the summer intern apps. You could hardly get on the site with everyone getting their stuff submitted at the last minute.

I applied for Active Duty a couple weeks ago and the application status has said "Under Completeness Review" ever since. They say you will hear a decision in 45 days. Does anyone know if they actually tell you if your stuff has been accepted and is under consideration? I think I have a pretty solid packet, but I am still really worried b/c of how low the selection rates are. The Field Screening Officer was saying 8% get picked up. He told everybody "When you don't get selected, make sure you apply again."

I am glad to see there is a lot of interest out there, although it seems that the Army is rather unrepresented in this forum. If nothing else, maybe I can post answers for the Army process as I get them.

Cheers,
Ed
Last edited by Undead_Ed on Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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MTal
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Re: Military Law

Postby MTal » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:02 pm

Marine OCS FTW.

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Undead_Ed
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Re: Military Law

Postby Undead_Ed » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:13 pm

amped wrote:Anyone else having trouble accessing the Army internship application site?


Hey amped (or anyone else),
I ran into my friend in the computer lab trying to submit his Army intern application (deadline is today). When he submitted it, there was nothing listed in "recent activity." Is that what yours did?

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patrickd139
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Re: Military Law

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:37 pm

Anyone know the new phone number for the national AF JAG recruiting office? 800-JAG-USAF is out of service when I call it.




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