Military Law

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
NAOBERJU
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:30 am

Re: Military Law

Postby NAOBERJU » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:55 am

Moves like JAGger wrote:
so ambivalent wrote:this is only for people who have been thru the JAG acceptance process before or know people who have.
i got medically disqualified based on seeing pscyh services while in law school and taking medication to deal with anxiety/stress after first semester grades came out (it's not like i was gonna kill myself or anything, i was just super disappointed and couldn't talk to any classmates about it because you don't talk about grades). even though i stopped being as upset as law school wore, on i decided i didn't want to go off medication until i got a job, because the idea of graduating with debt and no job is pretty stressful and i felt like taking medication made that easier. when i got my JAG offer i started going off the medication (which usually takes a month to taper down and get out of the system). so i was totally honest on my medical form about medication being in my system and going off of it and my reasons for taking it. obviously i'm doing the waiver process but the whole thing has kind of turned me off JAG, especially after i had a convo with the recruiting person who seemed uneducated and unpleasant.
my questions for people are:
1) how hard is it to get a waiver? anyone had experience with it before?
2) even if i get through this process what is the rest of it like? like will they ask me even more medical info and how about the background check and stuff involving drugs or international travel? i am worried i will get flagged for the travel thing because my parents were posted overseas alot and so i would go with them and then just travel on my own to reconnect with my friends in those countries. which is absurd since the reason i had exposure to those places was because of my parents' service, but i've heard it can be an issue.
3) how long does all this shit take before i know if there will be some disqualification?
4) i hear it just gets worse and more invasive the further along in the process it goes. i really don't want to hate my job and not be able to get out for 4 years. better to just get out now? did anyone find some other job during this process and accept it and, if so, did you tell people you got JAG and decided not to take it or were medically disqualified?


I can't speak to waivers. But medical screening is a pain in the ass. For the most part, you're on the honor system. You are expected to disclose everything and the AF will determine if what you disclosed is disqualifying. JAGs are screened by the same initial standard as every other service member. When at MEPS, I was with mostly 17 year old kids who signed up to be Marines. What I do know about waivers is that they're highly individualized. Bottom line is that the military can afford to be picky because they're receiving record numbers of applications during a period of downsizing. It is what it is.

Once you get medically qualified, you will have to fill out an SF86 (security clearance application) and this will require you to list everywhere you've lived for the past 10 years, plus references who can verify that everything you said is true. Another major PITA. Takes about 4 hours. I went through training with some people who lived abroad. It should not be a huge issue. Some of them had to speak with an investigator individually about the information they provided in their SF86.

The process of getting in sucks. But once you're in, it's pretty great. The application process is by no means a reflection of the job or the type of people doing it. I've only been in for a few months, but everyone I've encountered in the JAG Corps so far is pretty awesome in his/her own way.

I'd press forward. If you got the offer, you have what it takes.


I had the same waiver problem. I was on anti-anxiety medication for most of my 1L year. It was not really a problem, but I thought I was calmer on the medication. When I realized how prohibitive medication is in terms of the medical process, I spoke to my doctor and stopped taking medication. The bad news: you need to be off medication for TWO years before you can get a waiver. Some things are not waiverable. So, yes, you can get a waiver IF you WERE on medication, but right now they won't even consider a waiver if you were on medication (for psych stuff) within the past two years. When I went through the waiver process with the Navy, I was not aware of this regulation. I went through the waiver process during the first semester of my third year and did not get a waiver because I had only been off medication for one year. While it is theoretically possible for a waiver to be granted as long as you are off medication, based on internal policy, two years is the cut off.

I went through the same process with the Army when I had been off of medication for 2.5 years. I received a waiver.

If you have any specific questions about the waiver process for the Navy or the Army, I have way too much experience with the entire process so feel free to contact me.

Good Luck!

rtb2008x
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:08 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby rtb2008x » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:31 pm

Very general question here - when I go to apply for JAG positions next Fall, is it unwise to apply to literally every branch to improve my chances ? (AF, NAVY, ARMY, CG, USMC)

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:43 pm

rtb2008x wrote:Very general question here - when I go to apply for JAG positions next Fall, is it unwise to apply to literally every branch to improve my chances ? (AF, NAVY, ARMY, CG, USMC)


I applied to 4 of those 5... And was accepted by 1 of those. None of them cared I'd applied broadly, and only one service even asked.

BTW, CG process is the most difficult. Just warning so you can prepare yourself.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:29 pm

legalbeagletls wrote:Does anyone know how competitive it is to become a

Paralegal Specialist (27D)

MOS 4421 -- Legal Services Specialist

or

Navy Legalman ?

Would any of these jobs give an upper hand in future JAG recruiting?

Or it more important to have served in more of a combat focused role?

How is military experience evaluated for the purposes or JAG recruiting?


Active duty or are you still looking at the Guard/Reserves?

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:02 am

Also, a friendly note from a non-JAG military officer to all the new 2LTs:

Please, please, please try to avoid giving in to the period of intense motivation/teenage enthusiasm/flexing of nuts that generally occurs when you first join the military. I'm not saying you shouldn't like your job and try to do it well, but please don't take countless pictures of yourself in uniform or posing at the rifle range. Do not get a high and tight and do not wear your dress uniform at the mall. Do not post motivational quotes all over Facebook. Don't mislead people into thinking you've deployed if you haven't. Basically, don't replace your entire personality with "RAH MILITARY HARDCORE KILL BODIES RAH" overnight. You'll cringe in a few years when you look back and realize what a tool you were/how ill-advised that high and tight was.

When in doubt, consult Terminal Lance: http://terminallance.com/2011/01/31/terminal-lance-101-the-facebook-poseur/

/rant

Fed_Atty
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:01 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:21 pm

Question for the Army JAGs:

I am a big fan of your publications, available from the TJAG webpage. Particularly, "Practicing Military Justice" and the "Criminal Law Deskbook". Do you get hardcopies of these publications, or are they only available electronically?

User avatar
Moves like JAGger
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:18 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Moves like JAGger » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:16 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Also, a friendly note from a non-JAG military officer to all the new 2LTs:

Please, please, please try to avoid giving in to the period of intense motivation/teenage enthusiasm/flexing of nuts that generally occurs when you first join the military. I'm not saying you shouldn't like your job and try to do it well, but please don't take countless pictures of yourself in uniform or posing at the rifle range. Do not get a high and tight and do not wear your dress uniform at the mall. Do not post motivational quotes all over Facebook. Don't mislead people into thinking you've deployed if you haven't. Basically, don't replace your entire personality with "RAH MILITARY HARDCORE KILL BODIES RAH" overnight. You'll cringe in a few years when you look back and realize what a tool you were/how ill-advised that high and tight was.

When in doubt, consult Terminal Lance: http://terminallance.com/2011/01/31/terminal-lance-101-the-facebook-poseur/

/rant


they let JAGs go to the rifle range?

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:41 pm

Moves like JAGger wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Also, a friendly note from a non-JAG military officer to all the new 2LTs:

Please, please, please try to avoid giving in to the period of intense motivation/teenage enthusiasm/flexing of nuts that generally occurs when you first join the military. I'm not saying you shouldn't like your job and try to do it well, but please don't take countless pictures of yourself in uniform or posing at the rifle range. Do not get a high and tight and do not wear your dress uniform at the mall. Do not post motivational quotes all over Facebook. Don't mislead people into thinking you've deployed if you haven't. Basically, don't replace your entire personality with "RAH MILITARY HARDCORE KILL BODIES RAH" overnight. You'll cringe in a few years when you look back and realize what a tool you were/how ill-advised that high and tight was.

When in doubt, consult Terminal Lance: http://terminallance.com/2011/01/31/terminal-lance-101-the-facebook-poseur/

/rant


they let JAGs go to the rifle range?


I think this fellow is a Marine.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:36 am

There's a particular 2LT running around here somewhere who prompted that. Good kid and he means well, but he's just so full of naive motivation.

And yeah, Terminal Lance is indeed from the enlisted Marine perspective.

User avatar
Esquire
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:45 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:51 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:Question for the Army JAGs:

I am a big fan of your publications, available from the TJAG webpage. Particularly, "Practicing Military Justice" and the "Criminal Law Deskbook". Do you get hardcopies of these publications, or are they only available electronically?

They used to but I'm not sure if they still do, considering the current fiscal environment.

Moves like JAGger wrote:they let JAGs go to the rifle range?

I can't speak for the USAF but the Army requires JAs to qualify on rifles. So yes.

Catchman
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Catchman » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:06 pm

First time post, long time reader.

I received an Army Reserve JAG commission offer in December vis a vis the October Board. This week I received DODMERB clearance. I had been concerned about a leg injury with retained hardware (rod and screws - 5 years ago) and was previously medically denied an Army scholarship in 2004 after revealing I was taking ADD medication. I haven't taken any further medication since 2004 (10 years with no treatment or side effects, never requested special accommodation for academic testing) and my leg injury has not left me with any pain or limit on my range of motion. In fact, I'm more active now than at that time. DODMERB granted my clearance without the need for a waiver. Maybe that will provide some hope for future applicants.

I do have a question for those with experience or knowledge about financial aid/loan repayment/bonuses. Do Army Reserve JAGs qualify for anything? Just trying to budget for my post-grad finances.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:35 am

Moves like JAGger wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Also, a friendly note from a non-JAG military officer to all the new 2LTs:

Please, please, please try to avoid giving in to the period of intense motivation/teenage enthusiasm/flexing of nuts that generally occurs when you first join the military. I'm not saying you shouldn't like your job and try to do it well, but please don't take countless pictures of yourself in uniform or posing at the rifle range. Do not get a high and tight and do not wear your dress uniform at the mall. Do not post motivational quotes all over Facebook. Don't mislead people into thinking you've deployed if you haven't. Basically, don't replace your entire personality with "RAH MILITARY HARDCORE KILL BODIES RAH" overnight. You'll cringe in a few years when you look back and realize what a tool you were/how ill-advised that high and tight was.

When in doubt, consult Terminal Lance: http://terminallance.com/2011/01/31/terminal-lance-101-the-facebook-poseur/

/rant


they let JAGs go to the rifle range?


Sure do. Even this USAF desk pilot is M4/M9 qualified. I'm a stone cold killer when it comes to stationary targets that are a reasonable distance away from me. Pew pew.

User avatar
wvu
Posts: 1565
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:20 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wvu » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:36 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:Also, a friendly note from a non-JAG military officer to all the new 2LTs:

Please, please, please try to avoid giving in to the period of intense motivation/teenage enthusiasm/flexing of nuts that generally occurs when you first join the military. I'm not saying you shouldn't like your job and try to do it well, but please don't take countless pictures of yourself in uniform or posing at the rifle range. Do not get a high and tight and do not wear your dress uniform at the mall. Do not post motivational quotes all over Facebook. Don't mislead people into thinking you've deployed if you haven't. Basically, don't replace your entire personality with "RAH MILITARY HARDCORE KILL BODIES RAH" overnight. You'll cringe in a few years when you look back and realize what a tool you were/how ill-advised that high and tight was.

When in doubt, consult Terminal Lance: http://terminallance.com/2011/01/31/terminal-lance-101-the-facebook-poseur/

/rant

Yeah, my one mortal fear is being that officer. Though the specific things you listed are kind of ridiculous (but judging from my class I can understand them happening).

User avatar
LSATmakesMeNeurotic
Posts: 941
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:17 am

Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:59 pm

wvu wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Also, a friendly note from a non-JAG military officer to all the new 2LTs:

Please, please, please try to avoid giving in to the period of intense motivation/teenage enthusiasm/flexing of nuts that generally occurs when you first join the military. I'm not saying you shouldn't like your job and try to do it well, but please don't take countless pictures of yourself in uniform or posing at the rifle range. Do not get a high and tight and do not wear your dress uniform at the mall. Do not post motivational quotes all over Facebook. Don't mislead people into thinking you've deployed if you haven't. Basically, don't replace your entire personality with "RAH MILITARY HARDCORE KILL BODIES RAH" overnight. You'll cringe in a few years when you look back and realize what a tool you were/how ill-advised that high and tight was.

When in doubt, consult Terminal Lance: http://terminallance.com/2011/01/31/terminal-lance-101-the-facebook-poseur/

/rant

Yeah, my one mortal fear is being that officer. Though the specific things you listed are kind of ridiculous (but judging from my class I can understand them happening).


One of the things that really drew me to JAG was the fact that they weren't drinking the kool aid that so many other officers do. Maybe I was just lucky enough not to meet someone like that yet but all of the JAGs I have met are super chill.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:21 pm

Yeah, it's not so much a JAG oriented rant as a "new to the military in general" rant. The worst tools are the ones who post a lot of combat pictures from Afghanistan/Iraq and a lot of nut flexing "YUT KILL TERRORISTS!" type crap as though they've ever been anywhere more hardcore than MEPS. Close cousins of the self fellating "I'm fighting for your freedom, everyone!" crowd on Veteran's/Memorial Day.

armyhooah
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Military Law

Postby armyhooah » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:16 pm

Or my personal favorite: "Oh, just protecting America. Hashtag NBD." :roll: :lol:

User avatar
maxpayne
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:04 pm

Here is a random question:

What is the record for number of times applying to JAG (any branch) before either being selected or giving up? Does anyone here think they hold that record or know/heard of someone who does?

I ask because I am already 0/3 for AF and 0/1 for Army - and I foresee myself continuing to apply, year after year until I age out. So, I might be very well on my way to the record....

pat4redick
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby pat4redick » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:02 pm

maxpayne wrote:Here is a random question:

What is the record for number of times applying to JAG (any branch) before either being selected or giving up? Does anyone here think they hold that record or know/heard of someone who does?

I ask because I am already 0/3 for AF and 0/1 for Army - and I foresee myself continuing to apply, year after year until I age out. So, I might be very well on my way to the record....

When talking to a professor about JAG, I was told there was a former student that didn't get commissioned until the 17th attempt. I'm assuming that's the total number to all branches, but still it's a ton.

User avatar
maxpayne
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:01 pm

pat4redick wrote:
maxpayne wrote:Here is a random question:

What is the record for number of times applying to JAG (any branch) before either being selected or giving up? Does anyone here think they hold that record or know/heard of someone who does?

I ask because I am already 0/3 for AF and 0/1 for Army - and I foresee myself continuing to apply, year after year until I age out. So, I might be very well on my way to the record....

When talking to a professor about JAG, I was told there was a former student that didn't get commissioned until the 17th attempt. I'm assuming that's the total number to all branches, but still it's a ton.


Wow. That's a lot. But, I may surpass that number over the next 2 to 3 years. <LOL

pat4redick
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby pat4redick » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:06 pm

maxpayne wrote:
pat4redick wrote:
maxpayne wrote:Here is a random question:

What is the record for number of times applying to JAG (any branch) before either being selected or giving up? Does anyone here think they hold that record or know/heard of someone who does?

I ask because I am already 0/3 for AF and 0/1 for Army - and I foresee myself continuing to apply, year after year until I age out. So, I might be very well on my way to the record....

When talking to a professor about JAG, I was told there was a former student that didn't get commissioned until the 17th attempt. I'm assuming that's the total number to all branches, but still it's a ton.


Wow. That's a lot. But, I may surpass that number over the next 2 to 3 years. <LOL

Haha. Right there with you, my friend.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:05 am

Keep trying guys.

I wish I could tell them to give one of you my AF spot. Shame they don't take recommendations like that.

User avatar
maxpayne
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:11 pm

spleenworship wrote:Keep trying guys.

I wish I could tell them to give one of you my AF spot. Shame they don't take recommendations like that.


Thanks Spleen!

User avatar
maxpayne
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:14 pm

Just a reminder - anyone waiting on AF DAP results for this month's board should head over to airforceots.com. Make an account, post an intro, and then post up in the April thread (you will see it). For anyone who doesn't already know, airforceots.com is a great resource for future AF JAGs.

User avatar
Ex Cearulo
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Ex Cearulo » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:18 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Also, a friendly note from a non-JAG military officer to all the new 2LTs:

Please, please, please try to avoid giving in to the period of intense motivation/teenage enthusiasm/flexing of nuts that generally occurs when you first join the military. I'm not saying you shouldn't like your job and try to do it well, but please don't take countless pictures of yourself in uniform or posing at the rifle range. Do not get a high and tight and do not wear your dress uniform at the mall. Do not post motivational quotes all over Facebook. Don't mislead people into thinking you've deployed if you haven't. Basically, don't replace your entire personality with "RAH MILITARY HARDCORE KILL BODIES RAH" overnight. You'll cringe in a few years when you look back and realize what a tool you were/how ill-advised that high and tight was.

When in doubt, consult Terminal Lance: http://terminallance.com/2011/01/31/terminal-lance-101-the-facebook-poseur/

/rant


This. So much this.

pat4redick
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby pat4redick » Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:24 am

Has anyone ever externed with any of the branches during the school year? I'm curious to see what kind of impact it will have on my applications in the future (after the inevitable rejection coming from the Feb board).




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.