Military Law

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:04 pm

Puttanesca wrote:How common is it to PT with the office on the day of your interview w/AF JAG? I am going to be doing this. I work out a lot so I am not too worried about it, but I am pretty surprised because I didn't know this was an option.

I have heard of some odd interview approaches, but never that before. Was that something the SJA prompted? I know our SJA would do that in a heartbeat if that applicant asked. A lot of the time, that wouldn't be too practical for an applicant. Many applicants come from several hours away. It sounds like it could be a really good thing for applicants who can interact with other humans.

harocutter
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Re: Military Law

Postby harocutter » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:14 pm

Can anyone please describe what the day to day life of a JAG officer is? Particularly Airforce, thank you.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:17 pm

Puttanesca wrote:How common is it to PT with the office on the day of your interview w/AF JAG? I am going to be doing this. I work out a lot so I am not too worried about it, but I am pretty surprised because I didn't know this was an option.


Over five years in and I have never heard of this.

The whole interview process can vary quite a bit based on the SJA. I know some offices where it is a very straight forward 45 minute sit down with the SJA and nothing more. Others have been 3-4 hour interviews. Others have involved sit downs with all the captain level types or a lunch with a number of the folks from the office.

I'll be very curious to see how this plays out. Keep us posted.

Puttanesca
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Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:31 am

howell wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:How common is it to PT with the office on the day of your interview w/AF JAG? I am going to be doing this. I work out a lot so I am not too worried about it, but I am pretty surprised because I didn't know this was an option.

I have heard of some odd interview approaches, but never that before. Was that something the SJA prompted? I know our SJA would do that in a heartbeat if that applicant asked. A lot of the time, that wouldn't be too practical for an applicant. Many applicants come from several hours away. It sounds like it could be a really good thing for applicants who can interact with other humans.


The captain in charge of scheduling the SJA interview prompted the PT. I did not ask. I live more than 2 hours away from the base and have to be there at 0730 for the PT, so it is impractical, but I will do it because I think it will be a good opportunity to meet everyone in the office. I just hope I'm not too out of it after my long drive. I've never attempted to work out directly after a long drive.

edited to add: The captain said the PT was "optional."
Last edited by Puttanesca on Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:45 am

Puttanesca wrote:
howell wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:How common is it to PT with the office on the day of your interview w/AF JAG? I am going to be doing this. I work out a lot so I am not too worried about it, but I am pretty surprised because I didn't know this was an option.

I have heard of some odd interview approaches, but never that before. Was that something the SJA prompted? I know our SJA would do that in a heartbeat if that applicant asked. A lot of the time, that wouldn't be too practical for an applicant. Many applicants come from several hours away. It sounds like it could be a really good thing for applicants who can interact with other humans.


The captain in charge of scheduling the SJA interview prompted the PT. I did not ask. I live more than 2 hours away from the base and have to be there at 0730 for the PT, so it is impractical, but I will do it because I think it will be a good opportunity to meet everyone in the office. I just hope I'm not too out of it after my long drive. I've never attempted to work out directly after a long drive.


I'm very curious if this is a gung-ho SJA or the recruiting OIC with a small amount of authority that has gone to their head. I was the recruiting OIC at two bases and this was never a thing. That said, I like it as an idea - PT will come up in the interview anyway and what better way to say you can meet fitness standards than observing it first hand.

Don't worry about performing at PT if you are already in shape. You may surprised at the fitness levels you see out there.

Puttanesca
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Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:53 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
I'm very curious if this is a gung-ho SJA or the recruiting OIC with a small amount of authority that has gone to their head. I was the recruiting OIC at two bases and this was never a thing. That said, I like it as an idea - PT will come up in the interview anyway and what better way to say you can meet fitness standards than observing it first hand.

Don't worry about performing at PT if you are already in shape. You may surprised at the fitness levels you see out there.


The OIC told me that the SJA was very into physical fitness, so probably a gung-ho SJA.

Anonnymous
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Postby Anonnymous » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:40 pm

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Last edited by Anonnymous on Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:51 pm

Anonnymous wrote:I wanted to ask how one can obtain trial experience in JAG. I know that many JAGs do legal assistance at first, but I was wondering how one could be trial counsel as soon as possible. The answer might vary among the branches, and I'm happy to get perspectives from everyone.

Of course, I'm not looking down on any other type of legal work--I'm happy to serve in any way asked of me. Thanks a lot!

The branches are very different. In the Air Force, you will be trial counsel at your first base, but how many courts you do will depend on what base you get. There will be an attempt to get you to a base with a high(er) justice load in your first two bases. Some bases have 50+ courts per year; others have 2 or fewer.

Also important is how the workload is divided for courts at your base. I have seen SJAs have the chief of military justice work the cases until right before trial, then hand the case over to trial counsel. This is in contrast to my base, where I've been working on a 20 spec GCM since I got here 9 months ago (among other courts). So you could technically do 20 courts a year but not have a clue about motions practice, preferral, or other steps along the way to court-martial.

phorkedprocess
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Re: Military Law

Postby phorkedprocess » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:06 pm

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Last edited by phorkedprocess on Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

harocutter
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Re: Military Law

Postby harocutter » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:03 pm

phorkedprocess wrote:Hi all, been reading along with this thread for about a year. I'm a USAF JAG select, heading to COT in March.

My first assignment will be Scott AFB in Illinois. Wondering if any of the current/former JAGs on here have been stationed there, and if they have any knowledge/advice regarding the base and its legal office?




I'm currently a 2L at Loyola Los Angeles, and I'm very interested in joining the USAF JAG program. I read your post and noticed that you have recently been selected. I was wondering what if you could tell me what they were looking for in the selection process? Also, if you wouldn't mind, what was your background? GPA? Resume? Externships/internships? Etc. Did you participate in an USAF internship? I'm just curious to see what a they are looking for and obviously you were selected so I would really appreciate to know your background. Thank you and Good luck on your deployment.

pat4redick
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Re: Military Law

Postby pat4redick » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:15 pm

Hi all,

Long time lurker of the thread. I'm a 2L and throwing my hat into the ring. I have my Navy interview on Friday and I'm pretty nervous about it. Hopefully it goes well!

phorkedprocess
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Re: Military Law

Postby phorkedprocess » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:22 pm

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Last edited by phorkedprocess on Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

harocutter
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Re: Military Law

Postby harocutter » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:20 am

phorkedprocess wrote:harocutter,

I was selected in April of 2013. I was ranked 30th (12%-ish) at a T-30, competed for the Trial Team, was on a law journal (but not on the editorial board), and worked for a Veterans' clinic. I spent both summers with small, regional firms, so no prior JAG internships or anything. I managed to nab a letter of recommendation from a former (Army) JAG who worked at my school. My brother is in the Army, but other than that I have no military connections.

The interview means EVERYTHING, and mine went well. I think the SJA I interviewed with was mostly taken with my trial experience, and liked that I was a former athlete who was in good shape. Before my interview, I went down to the base and watched a court-martial for two days, making an effort to talk to as many of the JAGs as I could. I found this incredibly helpful in terms of feeling comfortable when I came back to interview; they were all very friendly and supportive. I can see how an internship would also be very beneficial.

If you have any specific questions, just ask!



Any specific advice for the interview? Also, what do you think about my Resume: 2 internship's with 2 different DA offices, currently working at USAO and tried 4 misdemeanor bench trials in federal court, 3.7 GPA, trial team tryouts and moot court competition, but no military connections or military internships.

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BigJH18
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Re: Military Law

Postby BigJH18 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:38 pm

harocutter wrote:
phorkedprocess wrote:Hi all, been reading along with this thread for about a year. I'm a USAF JAG select, heading to COT in March.

My first assignment will be Scott AFB in Illinois. Wondering if any of the current/former JAGs on here have been stationed there, and if they have any knowledge/advice regarding the base and its legal office?




I'm currently a 2L at Loyola Los Angeles, and I'm very interested in joining the USAF JAG program. I read your post and noticed that you have recently been selected. I was wondering what if you could tell me what they were looking for in the selection process? Also, if you wouldn't mind, what was your background? GPA? Resume? Externships/internships? Etc. Did you participate in an USAF internship? I'm just curious to see what a they are looking for and obviously you were selected so I would really appreciate to know your background. Thank you and Good luck on your deployment.


I recommend you take the time to read through the hundreds of posts that have already been made. It will help you get a broader knowledge than just one person's success.

Anonnymous
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Postby Anonnymous » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:18 pm

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Last edited by Anonnymous on Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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padawanphil
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Re: Military Law

Postby padawanphil » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:46 pm

Any information on the USAF JAG Summer Internship? The Air Force website says the application will be posted on usajobs.com in January, but it's not up yet. It's not due until February 28th, so I'm not sweating it yet. Has anyone participated in this internship? Would participating in it make selection through direct appointment more likely? Apologies if this has been addressed somewhere else ITT. I've been reading through it for a while, but haven't made it all the way through yet.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:26 pm

padawanphil wrote:Any information on the USAF JAG Summer Internship? The Air Force website says the application will be posted on usajobs.com in January, but it's not up yet. It's not due until February 28th, so I'm not sweating it yet. Has anyone participated in this internship? Would participating in it make selection through direct appointment more likely? Apologies if this has been addressed somewhere else ITT. I've been reading through it for a while, but haven't made it all the way through yet.


I highly recommend contacting JAX regarding when the position will drop on USAJOBS.

I was a part of the 2L internship program but that is now almost 7 years ago. There are folks on this board that have done an official or unofficial internship more recently. Without question, a successful internship is one of the best ways out there to improve your odds for active duty selection. Continue pressing through all the pages of posts as the internship has been discussed before - might be some good information in there.

armyhooah
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Re: Military Law

Postby armyhooah » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:47 am

Anonnymous wrote:
howell wrote:
Anonnymous wrote:I wanted to ask how one can obtain trial experience in JAG. I know that many JAGs do legal assistance at first, but I was wondering how one could be trial counsel as soon as possible. The answer might vary among the branches, and I'm happy to get perspectives from everyone.

Of course, I'm not looking down on any other type of legal work--I'm happy to serve in any way asked of me. Thanks a lot!

The branches are very different. In the Air Force, you will be trial counsel at your first base, but how many courts you do will depend on what base you get. There will be an attempt to get you to a base with a high(er) justice load in your first two bases. Some bases have 50+ courts per year; others have 2 or fewer.

Also important is how the workload is divided for courts at your base. I have seen SJAs have the chief of military justice work the cases until right before trial, then hand the case over to trial counsel. This is in contrast to my base, where I've been working on a 20 spec GCM since I got here 9 months ago (among other courts). So you could technically do 20 courts a year but not have a clue about motions practice, preferral, or other steps along the way to court-martial.


Thanks! Any other insights? Perhaps from Army or Navy?


This is Army perspective. I personally haven't seen any trial counsel with less than 2 years of experience. But if it's something you know you want to do, you should make that known early on, and it might be possible to go straight from legal assistance to trial counsel. Probably rare, but it happens. This might be the same across all branches, but TDS (trial defense) are almost always former trial counsel, but I recently met a JAG assigned to TDS who has only been in for 2 years. She said she really wanted to do defense and told everyone that, so they assigned her to TDS instead of trial counsel. I believe all the branches would try to work with you for the most part.

One thing though is to definitely try to be on a big base like Bragg, Hood, Campbell if you want to do trial work and see a broad spectrum of cases. Small bases may have less than a dozen court martials a year, with only a handful contested. Hope this helps somewhat. Best of luck!

pat4redick wrote:Hi all,

Long time lurker of the thread. I'm a 2L and throwing my hat into the ring. I have my Navy interview on Friday and I'm pretty nervous about it. Hopefully it goes well!


Good luck! Don't be nervous! Just be yourself. Being relaxed, honest, put-together, and personable is more than half the battle.

harocutter wrote:
phorkedprocess wrote:harocutter,

I was selected in April of 2013. I was ranked 30th (12%-ish) at a T-30, competed for the Trial Team, was on a law journal (but not on the editorial board), and worked for a Veterans' clinic. I spent both summers with small, regional firms, so no prior JAG internships or anything. I managed to nab a letter of recommendation from a former (Army) JAG who worked at my school. My brother is in the Army, but other than that I have no military connections.

The interview means EVERYTHING, and mine went well. I think the SJA I interviewed with was mostly taken with my trial experience, and liked that I was a former athlete who was in good shape. Before my interview, I went down to the base and watched a court-martial for two days, making an effort to talk to as many of the JAGs as I could. I found this incredibly helpful in terms of feeling comfortable when I came back to interview; they were all very friendly and supportive. I can see how an internship would also be very beneficial.

If you have any specific questions, just ask!



Any specific advice for the interview? Also, what do you think about my Resume: 2 internship's with 2 different DA offices, currently working at USAO and tried 4 misdemeanor bench trials in federal court, 3.7 GPA, trial team tryouts and moot court competition, but no military connections or military internships.


It sounds like you have a great background. Your resume, provided that it is well put-together, will speak for itself. Don't worry about the lack of military background. Lots of people don't have this and make it. I assume you are applying for a JAG internship since you're a 2L? Your interviewer will have read your application and resume. During the interview, try not to laundry list all your accomplishments and really think about the interviewer's questions and answer them honestly. I paused quite a bit during my interview because I was really thinking about my answers. Have an idea in your head of some key points you really want to get out during the interview (specific examples of leadership, meaningful experience, related skills, etc.), but as for the rest, don't rehearse it. Every interview's somewhat unique, and you just have to let the interviewer take the driver's seat. Good luck!!

Patrick Bateman wrote:
padawanphil wrote:Any information on the USAF JAG Summer Internship? The Air Force website says the application will be posted on usajobs.com in January, but it's not up yet. It's not due until February 28th, so I'm not sweating it yet. Has anyone participated in this internship? Would participating in it make selection through direct appointment more likely? Apologies if this has been addressed somewhere else ITT. I've been reading through it for a while, but haven't made it all the way through yet.


I highly recommend contacting JAX regarding when the position will drop on USAJOBS.

I was a part of the 2L internship program but that is now almost 7 years ago. There are folks on this board that have done an official or unofficial internship more recently. Without question, a successful internship is one of the best ways out there to improve your odds for active duty selection. Continue pressing through all the pages of posts as the internship has been discussed before - might be some good information in there.


Though obviously not an end-all, be-all, getting a JAG internship, doing well, making an impression, and getting a recommendation from that experience is a huge, huge factor in active duty selection. Definitely contact JAX to find out when it will be posted, and make your best effort to send forward the strongest application possible. Best of luck!

Just a note to anyone else who may have missed an internship deadline or are 3L's and can no longer do an internship, I would recommend volunteering on a military base if you're near one, or with Legal Aid if you're not near one. There are many, many ways to help out and to make an impression, outside of the official JAG internship process.

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padawanphil
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Re: Military Law

Postby padawanphil » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:44 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:I highly recommend contacting JAX regarding when the position will drop on USAJOBS.

I was a part of the 2L internship program but that is now almost 7 years ago. There are folks on this board that have done an official or unofficial internship more recently. Without question, a successful internship is one of the best ways out there to improve your odds for active duty selection. Continue pressing through all the pages of posts as the internship has been discussed before - might be some good information in there.



armyhooah wrote:Though obviously not an end-all, be-all, getting a JAG internship, doing well, making an impression, and getting a recommendation from that experience is a huge, huge factor in active duty selection. Definitely contact JAX to find out when it will be posted, and make your best effort to send forward the strongest application possible. Best of luck!

Just a note to anyone else who may have missed an internship deadline or are 3L's and can no longer do an internship, I would recommend volunteering on a military base if you're near one, or with Legal Aid if you're not near one. There are many, many ways to help out and to make an impression, outside of the official JAG internship process.


Thank you very much! The people ITT really are a great resource for TLS. Quick question, what/who is JAX?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:00 pm

padawanphil wrote:Thank you very much! The people ITT really are a great resource for TLS. Quick question, what/who is JAX?


JAX is the Air Force JAG Recruiting/Assessions Directorate. The folks officially responsible for all the internship, active duty, and reserve programs.

--LinkRemoved--

http://www.airforce.com/jag/

pat4redick
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Re: Military Law

Postby pat4redick » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:32 am

Thanks for the advice, armyhooah!

armyhooah wrote:Just a note to anyone else who may have missed an internship deadline or are 3L's and can no longer do an internship, I would recommend volunteering on a military base if you're near one, or with Legal Aid if you're not near one. There are many, many ways to help out and to make an impression, outside of the official JAG internship process.

This is interesting. As a 2L myself, would you recommend contacting local bases (for me it would be Jacksonville, FL) to see if they would take any volunteers? I'm currently interviewing for the Navy but plan to apply to USAF and Army as well.

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padawanphil
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Re: Military Law

Postby padawanphil » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:37 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
padawanphil wrote:Thank you very much! The people ITT really are a great resource for TLS. Quick question, what/who is JAX?


JAX is the Air Force JAG Recruiting/Assessions Directorate. The folks officially responsible for all the internship, active duty, and reserve programs.

--LinkRemoved--

http://www.airforce.com/jag/

Much appreciated. Also, I love your username.

Second_Law
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Re: Military Law

Postby Second_Law » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:14 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
padawanphil wrote:Any information on the USAF JAG Summer Internship? The Air Force website says the application will be posted on usajobs.com in January, but it's not up yet. It's not due until February 28th, so I'm not sweating it yet. Has anyone participated in this internship? Would participating in it make selection through direct appointment more likely? Apologies if this has been addressed somewhere else ITT. I've been reading through it for a while, but haven't made it all the way through yet.


I highly recommend contacting JAX regarding when the position will drop on USAJOBS.

I was a part of the 2L internship program but that is now almost 7 years ago. There are folks on this board that have done an official or unofficial internship more recently. Without question, a successful internship is one of the best ways out there to improve your odds for active duty selection. Continue pressing through all the pages of posts as the internship has been discussed before - might be some good information in there.


As always, Patrick Bateman's response is credited. I interned with AF my 2L summer (selected for the official program through USAJOBS, then went through an unofficial internship when sequestration hit), and I think that was the single biggest factor in getting me selected for both AF and Navy AD (a choice I'm still weighing at the moment). This thread has plenty of great info, and I read it in its entirety prior to my internship, but bottom line: though neither necessary nor sufficient, a JAG internship is a huge boost for applicants for AD JAG. It allows you to learn the language of the military (acronyms and ranks are critical), gives you an excellent sense of the job, gets you to start thinking like a JAG, and may lead to some very helpful letters of recommendation.

Even if none of the branches offer an official, paid internship this summer, I highly recommend interested 1Ls and 2Ls get in touch with their nearest base and look into setting up an unofficial internship, possibly even something that can start or last through the school year, geography permitting. I know my SJA did not mind the free labor, and I'm sure most SJAs would feel similarly.

Short of a JAG internship, I think any kind of criminal law internships, especially ones where you can appear on the record, are viewed very favorably. Most of the JAGs in the office and DAP selects I've spoken to had some kind of experience with moot court/mock trial, criminal/civil trial practice, and the like.

harocutter
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Re: Military Law

Postby harocutter » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:40 pm

This forum is great. I'm curious to know more about JAG deployment. This seems to be the "hardest" part of life as a JAG. How long is deployment? I know it can vary depending on the particular branch. Are you likely to be deployed in the first 4 years of service? For example, if you are an USAF JAG would you likely be sent to Bagram in Afghanistan for 6 monhts? Any information anyone has regarding JAG deployment would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:12 am

harocutter wrote:This forum is great. I'm curious to know more about JAG deployment. This seems to be the "hardest" part of life as a JAG. How long is deployment? I know it can vary depending on the particular branch. Are you likely to be deployed in the first 4 years of service? For example, if you are an USAF JAG would you likely be sent to Bagram in Afghanistan for 6 monhts? Any information anyone has regarding JAG deployment would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


Deployments were discussed a while back:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31543&hilit=deployment&start=4975

Speaking only for the Air Force:

Six month tours are the most common. Those can get extended past the 179 day mark (my six month tour went a month and change long) but that is variable dependent. There are still a handful of 365 day tours at the O-3 level in Afghanistan, some voluntary, some not. Right now it is hard for me to say how many deployment opportunities exist for base legal level JAGs and what any sort of percentile are going down range.

There are a number of positions in Afghanistan - Bagram, Kabul, etc, spread out between a quite a few different Camps, FOBs, Joint Task Forces, and Commands. Way, way less than there were a few years back, however. Several positions in Qatar and Guantanamo Bay. One in Djibouti but scuttlebutt has it that we will likely be plussing up in Africa. The Pacific "pivot" has not yielded any new deployment opportunities yet at the O-3 level that I am aware of.




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