Military Law

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:51 pm

wvu wrote:Hey all, I've gotten really interested in JAG in the past couple of months (specifically Navy and AF). I'm applying for the internships for my 2L summer now (and trying to weigh my options if I don't get one for the best chance at a permanent position next year).

Assuming I don't get a JAG internship, I currently have a pretty open offer to intern at a county prosecutor, where they've said I should have the chance to do some actual work with a 3L practice certificate. Does that look good/bad/neutral come final application time? Should I look for something more federal? I interned last summer with the federal judiciary in DC.

Also curious about the fitness aspect; I'm definitely not in shape (read: fatty) but have started taking it more seriously since I've been looking into JAG. Would be interested in discussing specifics of that with someone in PM if possible.

Sorry if you feel anything I asked was covered, this is a big thread and I did my best to go through it. Thanks again guys!


The county prosecutor's office would look great on your resume. A number of my JAG friends and peers have a background that involves time at a DA's office (or equivalent) - half of the ADCs in my region right now had time with their District Attorney/State's Attorney/etc as law students or before they went active duty.

Federal also would look great. This is just a gut call but I would pursue the option that would give you the most hands on trial experience opportunities.

I'd be happy to talk fitness with you if you want to shoot me a PM.

womeninblack
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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:57 pm

AguasAguas! wrote:Anybody have experience applying for a waiver? And anyone on the AF December board been able to get in touch with our POC on when we should expect to go through the MEPS process? I've left a couple messages...


I think it depends on whether you're a practicing attorney or a law student. The law students still have plenty of time to go through MEPS (still have to graduate, take the bar, and pass the bar), so we're probably not high on the priority list. I know a few Oct. selects (3Ls) who are still waiting to go through MEPS. I think if you're a practicing attorney, you probably have priority over the law students.

If you're a law student, be patient. You have plenty of time.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:41 am

womeninblack wrote:
AguasAguas! wrote:Anybody have experience applying for a waiver? And anyone on the AF December board been able to get in touch with our POC on when we should expect to go through the MEPS process? I've left a couple messages...


I think it depends on whether you're a practicing attorney or a law student. The law students still have plenty of time to go through MEPS (still have to graduate, take the bar, and pass the bar), so we're probably not high on the priority list. I know a few Oct. selects (3Ls) who are still waiting to go through MEPS. I think if you're a practicing attorney, you probably have priority over the law students.

If you're a law student, be patient. You have plenty of time.


I hear the plenty of time thing, but I have to admit it would be nice to know if I was going to get a waiver or not as I apply to other jobs. Right now I'm pretty conflicted. Do I tel them I might be leaving for 4 or more years (read:20-24 years), or do I not tell them and burn bridges if the waiver goes through an my dreams come true? Ugh.

jagnut
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Re: Military Law

Postby jagnut » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:38 am

A medical waiver? If it's too personal, don't elaborate, but I went through MEPS in 2006 and I came across a lot of people during my enlistment who got waivers no problem for a variety of reasons, ie. surgeries, injuries, etc. As long as you can pass the balance/agility test at MEPS (stand on one leg, squat, duck walk- all in your underpants in a room full of men, so wear clean ones)

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Decimus
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Re: Military Law

Postby Decimus » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:45 am

jagnut wrote:A medical waiver? If it's too personal, don't elaborate, but I went through MEPS in 2006 and I came across a lot of people during my enlistment who got waivers no problem for a variety of reasons, ie. surgeries, injuries, etc. As long as you can pass the balance/agility test at MEPS (stand on one leg, squat, duck walk- all in your underpants in a room full of men, so wear clean ones)


That was 2006. Nowadays, you can't get a waiver for being redheaded.

womeninblack
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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:47 am

spleenworship wrote:
womeninblack wrote:
AguasAguas! wrote:Anybody have experience applying for a waiver? And anyone on the AF December board been able to get in touch with our POC on when we should expect to go through the MEPS process? I've left a couple messages...


I think it depends on whether you're a practicing attorney or a law student. The law students still have plenty of time to go through MEPS (still have to graduate, take the bar, and pass the bar), so we're probably not high on the priority list. I know a few Oct. selects (3Ls) who are still waiting to go through MEPS. I think if you're a practicing attorney, you probably have priority over the law students.

If you're a law student, be patient. You have plenty of time.


I hear the plenty of time thing, but I have to admit it would be nice to know if I was going to get a waiver or not as I apply to other jobs. Right now I'm pretty conflicted. Do I tel them I might be leaving for 4 or more years (read:20-24 years), or do I not tell them and burn bridges if the waiver goes through an my dreams come true? Ugh.


If you go to airforceots.com, there are a lot of people who have gotten waivers. They elaborate on their waiver experiences, which may be helpful to you. You have to register to read the forums.

harocutter
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Re: Military Law

Postby harocutter » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:51 pm

Good afternoon,

I'm currently a 2L interested in pursuing a career as either a JAG officer in the Navy or Air force. One of the biggest reasons why I want to join JAG is because I want to live in Europe/travel. I understand that as a rookie you don't always get your top choice. However, I was curious on how likely one is to get an assignment to Europe? Also, I'm married and I was wondering when are the times she can't accompany me?(thought this phrasing would be easier than when "can" she accompany me, just assuming every other time she can come with me) Can she live with me in Europe, etc? If I was stationed in the US could she live with me there? Or is it more like I'm on the base 5 days a week and only see here on weekends? Thank you for your time and service.

brownshoe
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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:50 pm

harocutter wrote:Good afternoon,

I'm currently a 2L interested in pursuing a career as either a JAG officer in the Navy or Air force. One of the biggest reasons why I want to join JAG is because I want to live in Europe/travel. I understand that as a rookie you don't always get your top choice. However, I was curious on how likely one is to get an assignment to Europe? Also, I'm married and I was wondering when are the times she can't accompany me?(thought this phrasing would be easier than when "can" she accompany me, just assuming every other time she can come with me) Can she live with me in Europe, etc? If I was stationed in the US could she live with me there? Or is it more like I'm on the base 5 days a week and only see here on weekends? Thank you for your time and service.

Speaking for Navy only, your first tour will be to one of 8 or 9 fleet concentration areas, one of which is Naples. So, very generally, you'll have a 1 in 8 or 9 chance at going there right off the bat. After your first tour, it all depends on what jobs are open when you're due to rotate. Obviously, Europe is pretty popular, so I wouldn't count on it being a sure thing. The best way to get a job over there is take a "hardship" job for your second tour and hope the detailer hooks you up for your third. Regarding your wife, she'll be able to go with you to almost every location. The only unaccompanied job I can think of (outside of operational jobs such as ships and NSW) off the top of my head is Diego Garcia, but I'm sure there are a few more. The plus is, if they send you to Diego, it's only for a year.

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Decimus
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Re: Military Law

Postby Decimus » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:02 pm

brownshoe wrote:
harocutter wrote:Good afternoon,

I'm currently a 2L interested in pursuing a career as either a JAG officer in the Navy or Air force. One of the biggest reasons why I want to join JAG is because I want to live in Europe/travel. I understand that as a rookie you don't always get your top choice. However, I was curious on how likely one is to get an assignment to Europe? Also, I'm married and I was wondering when are the times she can't accompany me?(thought this phrasing would be easier than when "can" she accompany me, just assuming every other time she can come with me) Can she live with me in Europe, etc? If I was stationed in the US could she live with me there? Or is it more like I'm on the base 5 days a week and only see here on weekends? Thank you for your time and service.

Speaking for Navy only, your first tour will be to one of 8 or 9 fleet concentration areas, one of which is Naples. So, very generally, you'll have a 1 in 8 or 9 chance at going there right off the bat. After your first tour, it all depends on what jobs are open when you're due to rotate. Obviously, Europe is pretty popular, so I wouldn't count on it being a sure thing. The best way to get a job over there is take a "hardship" job for your second tour and hope the detailer hooks you up for your third. Regarding your wife, she'll be able to go with you to almost every location. The only unaccompanied job I can think of (outside of operational jobs such as ships and NSW) off the top of my head is Diego Garcia, but I'm sure there are a few more. The plus is, if they send you to Diego, it's only for a year.


Most 5th fleet assignments are unaccompanied. I can't remember if Bahrain is on again or off again. But in terms of travel, you get 2.5 days vacation a month, so it doesn't really have to be limited to tours in Europe. AF might have more left in Europe than Navy (although we're standing up a new DESRON in Spain, so who knows), but the point is that you're choosing a career and you might get one tour in Europe or you might not.

harocutter
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Re: Military Law

Postby harocutter » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:11 pm

Decimus wrote:
brownshoe wrote:
harocutter wrote:Good afternoon,

I'm currently a 2L interested in pursuing a career as either a JAG officer in the Navy or Air force. One of the biggest reasons why I want to join JAG is because I want to live in Europe/travel. I understand that as a rookie you don't always get your top choice. However, I was curious on how likely one is to get an assignment to Europe? Also, I'm married and I was wondering when are the times she can't accompany me?(thought this phrasing would be easier than when "can" she accompany me, just assuming every other time she can come with me) Can she live with me in Europe, etc? If I was stationed in the US could she live with me there? Or is it more like I'm on the base 5 days a week and only see here on weekends? Thank you for your time and service.

Speaking for Navy only, your first tour will be to one of 8 or 9 fleet concentration areas, one of which is Naples. So, very generally, you'll have a 1 in 8 or 9 chance at going there right off the bat. After your first tour, it all depends on what jobs are open when you're due to rotate. Obviously, Europe is pretty popular, so I wouldn't count on it being a sure thing. The best way to get a job over there is take a "hardship" job for your second tour and hope the detailer hooks you up for your third. Regarding your wife, she'll be able to go with you to almost every location. The only unaccompanied job I can think of (outside of operational jobs such as ships and NSW) off the top of my head is Diego Garcia, but I'm sure there are a few more. The plus is, if they send you to Diego, it's only for a year.


Most 5th fleet assignments are unaccompanied. I can't remember if Bahrain is on again or off again. But in terms of travel, you get 2.5 days vacation a month, so it doesn't really have to be limited to tours in Europe. AF might have more left in Europe than Navy (although we're standing up a new DESRON in Spain, so who knows), but the point is that you're choosing a career and you might get one tour in Europe or you might not.



Thank you for the info. I thought Navy you did a 2 & 2 tour set? So I was thinking 2 years in a hardship then I could hopefully get 2 in Europe. Being real for a minute though, how enjoyable is it to be a JAG officer? Am I just romanticizing the idea of working as a military lawyer in Europe?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:18 pm

harocutter wrote:Good afternoon,

I'm currently a 2L interested in pursuing a career as either a JAG officer in the Navy or Air force. One of the biggest reasons why I want to join JAG is because I want to live in Europe/travel. I understand that as a rookie you don't always get your top choice. However, I was curious on how likely one is to get an assignment to Europe? Also, I'm married and I was wondering when are the times she can't accompany me?(thought this phrasing would be easier than when "can" she accompany me, just assuming every other time she can come with me) Can she live with me in Europe, etc? If I was stationed in the US could she live with me there? Or is it more like I'm on the base 5 days a week and only see here on weekends? Thank you for your time and service.


If a primary goal is to see Europe through military service, versus military service itself, you may be disappointed. Europe is obviously great but I would strongly advise against viewing JAG as just some conduit to some paid gig in Germany, England, or Italy.

Not getting your top choice has nothing to do with being a rookie - that is pretty standard for all military service. Sometimes you get very lucky and end up with something on your dream sheet but your default position needs to be is that you will be stationed according to the needs of the Air Force or Navy. I had two years in a pretty miserable location in New Mexico because that is where the chips fell. Sometimes you get the fuzzy end of the lollypop, sometimes you get the good end.

The going rate is that 10%-15% of first assignment AF JAGs end up with an OCONUS assignment. That includes Alaska and Hawaii in addition to Europe and the Pacific.

Your spouse will be traveled with you for just about every assignment out there. All the assignments in Korea (US Forces Korea, 7th Air Force, Osan AB, Kunsan AB) are generally unaccompanied (no spouse) at the O-3 level for a single year. Obviously deployments and other TDYs do not provide for your spouse coming with. Your spouse will live with you (excepting Korea) whether you live off-base or on-base. You'll see her whenever you normally would if you had a non-military job.

theinvisiblehand
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Re: Military Law

Postby theinvisiblehand » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:20 pm

Army JAG internship results are out today! From the facebook page:

"To all Army Intern Applicants:

Final FY14 U.S. Army JAG Corps 2L Summer Intern selections will be published later TODAY. The selection lists will be pushed out via all JARO and Army JAG Corps social media sites at Facebook, Google+ and Twitter, after which they will be hung on our homepage at http://www.jagcnet.army.mil/jaro.

nclwyr
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Re: Military Law

Postby nclwyr » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:07 pm

I just discovered this thread and it's awesome. Thank you so much for all the information and advice. I just submitted my application for the Army Reserve JAG Corps and I meet with the FSO next week. I was wondering if anyone could offer any insight into what that interview is like and how long after the deadline does it take to hear back for Reserves? I was also wondering if anyone knew what the acceptance rate is like for the Reserves?

HEAT3PEAT
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Re: Military Law

Postby HEAT3PEAT » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:29 pm

Interview is pretty straightforward IMO. Ask about your resume, why you want to become JAG, etc. Ask if you have questions for them...which you should definitley have.

Anyone get called about making summer list for Army ??

lawhaze
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Re: Military Law

Postby lawhaze » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:47 pm

HEAT3PEAT wrote:Interview is pretty straightforward IMO. Ask about your resume, why you want to become JAG, etc. Ask if you have questions for them...which you should definitley have.

Anyone get called about making summer list for Army ??


I was selected for an internship, but never received a call from my FSO. Fortunately good ole Facebook came through for me and gave me the great news! Anyone else have the same experience?

theinvisiblehand
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Re: Military Law

Postby theinvisiblehand » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:09 pm

lawhaze wrote:
HEAT3PEAT wrote:Interview is pretty straightforward IMO. Ask about your resume, why you want to become JAG, etc. Ask if you have questions for them...which you should definitley have.

Anyone get called about making summer list for Army ??


I was selected for an internship, but never received a call from my FSO. Fortunately good ole Facebook came through for me and gave me the great news! Anyone else have the same experience?


Congrats! Same exact thing happened to me! I was staring at my phone the entire day, but I did not find out until I saw it on facebook. Did anyone get a call or have any information on when we have to make a decision?

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:11 pm

theinvisiblehand wrote:
lawhaze wrote:
HEAT3PEAT wrote:Interview is pretty straightforward IMO. Ask about your resume, why you want to become JAG, etc. Ask if you have questions for them...which you should definitley have.

Anyone get called about making summer list for Army ??


I was selected for an internship, but never received a call from my FSO. Fortunately good ole Facebook came through for me and gave me the great news! Anyone else have the same experience?


Congrats! Same exact thing happened to me! I was staring at my phone the entire day, but I did not find out until I saw it on facebook. Did anyone get a call or have any information on when we have to make a decision?


They should send you something in the mail along with instructions on how to choose what locations you would prefer to work at. Last year's timeline was a bit messed up because of the sequester, but I think we had about a month to decide after getting the paperwork?

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wvu
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Re: Military Law

Postby wvu » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:35 am

Couple of location questions for 2L summer internships. For the Navy application, assuming I want to stay in the mid-atlantic(ish) region, the obvious base choice would be Norfolk, but any suggestions for others? I have some friends stationed at Lejeune, is that a possibility for Navy JAG? (I see it listed on the website but can't find much information)

Similar question for the AF's volunteer internship. Any specifics on which bases have been more likely to do the program?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:51 am

wvu wrote: Similar question for the AF's volunteer internship. Any specifics on which bases have been more likely to do the program?


SJAs submit a request to JAX asking for interns around this time each year. It is free labor from a manning perspective, so I'm not sure what SJA would not be asking for an intern - in other words, you should not have any problems asking for a particular base.

In terms of Mid-Atlantic for the AF, there is everything in DC and the National Capital Region and then Joint Base Langley is right in the mix down in Norfolk. Langley has both a legal office for the 633d Air Base Wing and and Air Combat Command HQ (four star Major Command). DC offers the traditional base legal experience at Andrews and Bolling in addition to some intern opportunities in some Air Staff positions.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:49 pm

Recently got news I am in mild kidney failure. :(. So... Things aren't looking good for me on the JA front.

Just in case anyone was wondering why I'm applying for other jobs and considering not even bothering the AF with trying to process waivers for me.

The doc says he doesn't think it's a big deal and he expects me to die of a heart attack first, but I don't think the AF will be on the same page.

Ill come in and let you all know what I decide to do.

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wvu
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Re: Military Law

Postby wvu » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:46 am

Damn spleen, I'm sorry to hear that. That's pretty much my biggest fear, being selected and then something in my medical history coming up to screw me.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:58 am

spleenworship wrote:Recently got news I am in mild kidney failure. :(. So... Things aren't looking good for me on the JA front.

Just in case anyone was wondering why I'm applying for other jobs and considering not even bothering the AF with trying to process waivers for me.

The doc says he doesn't think it's a big deal and he expects me to die of a heart attack first, but I don't think the AF will be on the same page.

Ill come in and let you all know what I decide to do.


I'm sorry to hear that, man.

target
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Re: Military Law

Postby target » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:04 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Recently got news I am in mild kidney failure. :(. So... Things aren't looking good for me on the JA front.

Just in case anyone was wondering why I'm applying for other jobs and considering not even bothering the AF with trying to process waivers for me.

The doc says he doesn't think it's a big deal and he expects me to die of a heart attack first, but I don't think the AF will be on the same page.

Ill come in and let you all know what I decide to do.


I'm sorry to hear that, man.

Puttanesca
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Re: Military Law

Postby Puttanesca » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:49 pm

How common is it to PT with the office on the day of your interview w/AF JAG? I am going to be doing this. I work out a lot so I am not too worried about it, but I am pretty surprised because I didn't know this was an option.

womeninblack
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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:02 pm

Puttanesca wrote:How common is it to PT with the office on the day of your interview w/AF JAG? I am going to be doing this. I work out a lot so I am not too worried about it, but I am pretty surprised because I didn't know this was an option.


I've never heard of this happening. Did you ask to do that or is the SJA just making it a part of the interview?




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