Military Law

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womeninblack
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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:21 pm

trayball23 wrote:I was selected Navy JAG and I am looking around for a bar exam to take. Any idea what Bar exam would give the most latitude in regards to reciprocity/ admittance in other states? Just looking to keep my options open and take a bar with as little state law as possible. Thanks.


If you're looking for a bar exam with as little state law as possible, you may want to consider taking the bar exam in a state that uses the uniform bar exam. I think that most states that use the UBE have reciprocity with each other.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:38 pm

Contacted AF ROTC. They've never dealt with someone like me before, but they were happy to give me an old copy of their 101 intro class (they told me to pay attention to uniforms, as they claim COT did not appear to properly instruct their students in this area), and said if I got a physical done at student health I could work out with them. However, they also said their workouts were primarily for morale boosting, and I should run on my own regularly to avoid embarrassing myself at COT.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:40 pm

womeninblack wrote:
trayball23 wrote:I was selected Navy JAG and I am looking around for a bar exam to take. Any idea what Bar exam would give the most latitude in regards to reciprocity/ admittance in other states? Just looking to keep my options open and take a bar with as little state law as possible. Thanks.


If you're looking for a bar exam with as little state law as possible, you may want to consider taking the bar exam in a state that uses the uniform bar exam. I think that most states that use the UBE have reciprocity with each other.


Yeah... Take in one of those 16 states, score high enough... and BAM, able to get barred in those 16.

AFJAG2014
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Re: Military Law

Postby AFJAG2014 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:16 pm

spleenworship wrote:However, they also said their workouts were primarily for morale boosting, and I should run on my own regularly to avoid embarrassing myself at COT.


How bizarre. We take our workouts pretty seriously at our Detachment.

Second_Law
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Re: Military Law

Postby Second_Law » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:21 am

spleenworship wrote:
womeninblack wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Second_Law wrote:Have any Air Force DA selects been able to get in touch with the POC at JAX? I was an October select, and I've left a couple voice mails and emails but haven't heard anything yet. I'm sure he's very busy, and I'm a 3L, so it's not like I could go to COT right away or anything. I just wanted to make sure I haven't missed any deadlines or anything.


A friend of mine is an October select and he just had his interview call. Seems like things are going pretty slow.


I'm a 3L October select, and I'm scheduled to go to MEPS this week.
By interview call, do you mean the initial call to the POC at JAX?


Yes.



Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I was able to speak with the POC. He's still taking care of already licensed attorneys from the October board, so he won't be discussing MEPS and everything with me for a couple weeks. Good luck to everyone still going through the process.

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:42 pm

Does anyone know if Army JAGs have the opportunity to go to the captain career course for a different branch (I.e. go to the CCC for military intelligence)? Because we will promote to captain so quickly, I figured that wouldn't be option but would be a great opportunity if available.

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Decimus
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Re: Military Law

Postby Decimus » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:32 pm

spleenworship wrote:Contacted AF ROTC. They've never dealt with someone like me before, but they were happy to give me an old copy of their 101 intro class (they told me to pay attention to uniforms, as they claim COT did not appear to properly instruct their students in this area), and said if I got a physical done at student health I could work out with them. However, they also said their workouts were primarily for morale boosting, and I should run on my own regularly to avoid embarrassing myself at COT.


Embarrassment at AF PT... is that like the remote slipping out of your hand during Wii Bowling?

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Military Law

Postby UnicornHunter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:41 pm

LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:Does anyone know if Army JAGs have the opportunity to go to the captain career course for a different branch (I.e. go to the CCC for military intelligence)? Because we will promote to captain so quickly, I figured that wouldn't be option but would be a great opportunity if available.


Even if you could do this (and I really, really doubt that you can,) don't. Intel officers out of the CCC are looking at becoming battalion level S2s- you don't want to be that guy with 0 experience in that slot. You'll get devoured by your enlisted and your field-grades. If you want to go do intel/infantry/whatever, get in as an LT and do your time as an AS2/PL/whatever.

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Decimus
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Re: Military Law

Postby Decimus » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:42 pm

AfghanTourist wrote:
LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:Does anyone know if Army JAGs have the opportunity to go to the captain career course for a different branch (I.e. go to the CCC for military intelligence)? Because we will promote to captain so quickly, I figured that wouldn't be option but would be a great opportunity if available.


Even if you could do this (and I really, really doubt that you can,) don't. Intel officers out of the CCC are looking at becoming battalion level S2s- you don't want to be that guy with 0 experience in that slot. You'll get devoured by your enlisted and your field-grades. If you want to go do intel/infantry/whatever, get in as an LT and do your time as an AS2/PL/whatever.


+1

HEAT3PEAT
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Re: Military Law

Postby HEAT3PEAT » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:43 pm

LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:Does anyone know if Army JAGs have the opportunity to go to the captain career course for a different branch (I.e. go to the CCC for military intelligence)? Because we will promote to captain so quickly, I figured that wouldn't be option but would be a great opportunity if available.


I dont believe that would be an option. MI CCC is usually reserved for the officers that comissioned as a 2LT and went to MI BOLC, which must be completed before attending CCC.

Blackie Toy
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Re: Military Law

Postby Blackie Toy » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:30 pm

For those of you going or interested in Army JAG, there are some great and in depth publications on JAGCNET regarding career assignments and development. You can also take a look on JARO, under the admitted classes, to find some basic Army 101 primers.

Aside from this, are there any JAs that had dependents while going active? I'd love to hear about the experiences.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:08 am

Decimus wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Contacted AF ROTC. They've never dealt with someone like me before, but they were happy to give me an old copy of their 101 intro class (they told me to pay attention to uniforms, as they claim COT did not appear to properly instruct their students in this area), and said if I got a physical done at student health I could work out with them. However, they also said their workouts were primarily for morale boosting, and I should run on my own regularly to avoid embarrassing myself at COT.


Embarrassment at AF PT... is that like the remote slipping out of your hand during Wii Bowling?



I think they've upped things lately. The PT test basically requires 40 push-ups in a minute, 45 sit-ups in a minute, and a 12:00 minute mile and a half. And I'm over 30. It's not hard, but it isn't just a walk in the park either.

jmls1987
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Re: Military Law

Postby jmls1987 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:53 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Decimus wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Contacted AF ROTC. They've never dealt with someone like me before, but they were happy to give me an old copy of their 101 intro class (they told me to pay attention to uniforms, as they claim COT did not appear to properly instruct their students in this area), and said if I got a physical done at student health I could work out with them. However, they also said their workouts were primarily for morale boosting, and I should run on my own regularly to avoid embarrassing myself at COT.


Embarrassment at AF PT... is that like the remote slipping out of your hand during Wii Bowling?



I think they've upped things lately. The PT test basically requires 40 push-ups in a minute, 45 sit-ups in a minute, and a 12:00 minute mile and a half. And I'm over 30. It's not hard, but it isn't just a walk in the park either.


That does sound like they upped their PT Test. I know for the Army...a male 21-26 needs a minimum of 40 push-ups in 2 minutes , 50 situps in 2 min, and a 16:36 2-mile. Keep in mind this is a minimum. As an Officer, you always need to exceed the standard.

AguasAguas!
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Re: Military Law

Postby AguasAguas! » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:45 pm

Hello all -

Awesome thread that has been super helpful already. I was recently selected for the December board (super psyched). I've been unsuccessfully trying to get in touch with POC for the AF as it appears a few other have. Was just curious if anyone else from my board has gotten in touch with them.

On another note, anyone know about the process for getting things waived in the MEPS process?

HEAT3PEAT
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Re: Military Law

Postby HEAT3PEAT » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:42 pm

AguasAguas! wrote:Hello all -

Awesome thread that has been super helpful already. I was recently selected for the December board (super psyched). I've been unsuccessfully trying to get in touch with POC for the AF as it appears a few other have. Was just curious if anyone else from my board has gotten in touch with them.

On another note, anyone know about the process for getting things waived in the MEPS process?


Im thinking of applying AF. Can you share stats or anything else that you think made you a strong candidate? Any summer internships with AF?

womeninblack
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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:23 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Decimus wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Contacted AF ROTC. They've never dealt with someone like me before, but they were happy to give me an old copy of their 101 intro class (they told me to pay attention to uniforms, as they claim COT did not appear to properly instruct their students in this area), and said if I got a physical done at student health I could work out with them. However, they also said their workouts were primarily for morale boosting, and I should run on my own regularly to avoid embarrassing myself at COT.


Embarrassment at AF PT... is that like the remote slipping out of your hand during Wii Bowling?



I think they've upped things lately. The PT test basically requires 40 push-ups in a minute, 45 sit-ups in a minute, and a 12:00 minute mile and a half. And I'm over 30. It's not hard, but it isn't just a walk in the park either.


I believe the PT test for males (assuming you're a male based on the amount you say you have to do) over age 30 is 27 push-ups, 39 sit-ups, and a 14 minute mile and a half run unless things have changed recently.

AguasAguas!
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Re: Military Law

Postby AguasAguas! » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:17 pm

I don't have any stats but this is what I would say:

Do an internship. Show up early, leave late, go beyond what they ask of you (just generally add value to their office). Get a letter of rec. Get as much litigation experience as possible in law school (moot court, clinics, trial prep classes). Try to get on a law review/journal. Demonstrate you have a commitment to public service.


HEAT3PEAT wrote:
AguasAguas! wrote:Hello all -

Awesome thread that has been super helpful already. I was recently selected for the December board (super psyched). I've been unsuccessfully trying to get in touch with POC for the AF as it appears a few other have. Was just curious if anyone else from my board has gotten in touch with them.

On another note, anyone know about the process for getting things waived in the MEPS process?


Im thinking of applying AF. Can you share stats or anything else that you think made you a strong candidate? Any summer internships with AF?

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:17 am

womeninblack wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Decimus wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Contacted AF ROTC. They've never dealt with someone like me before, but they were happy to give me an old copy of their 101 intro class (they told me to pay attention to uniforms, as they claim COT did not appear to properly instruct their students in this area), and said if I got a physical done at student health I could work out with them. However, they also said their workouts were primarily for morale boosting, and I should run on my own regularly to avoid embarrassing myself at COT.


Embarrassment at AF PT... is that like the remote slipping out of your hand during Wii Bowling?



I think they've upped things lately. The PT test basically requires 40 push-ups in a minute, 45 sit-ups in a minute, and a 12:00 minute mile and a half. And I'm over 30. It's not hard, but it isn't just a walk in the park either.


I believe the PT test for males (assuming you're a male based on the amount you say you have to do) over age 30 is 27 push-ups, 39 sit-ups, and a 14 minute mile and a half run unless things have changed recently.


Ill be honest, I kind upped all the numbers above the minimum, as I don't want to be scraping by with the minimum. But I do distinctly recall that after reviewing the chart I needed to get my mile and a half done in like 12:50.

Edit: for further clarification - since you need 75 points overall on the test you can't merely score the minimum in each and pass. You actually need to score above the minimum on all (my goal). Or well above the minimum on one or two, and the minimum on the last two. And since the run is weighted to be most of the points on the test, you really don't want minimum there.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:58 am

jmls1987 wrote:As an Officer, you always need to exceed the standard.


It has been said before but it is worth noting this again. This is not directed at anyone in particular but for both applicants and new accessions, PT is important. It is one of those few things that is 100% within your control. Beyond health benefits and all the "fit to fight" stuff, your fitness is a greater reflection of discipline and work ethic. Passing the test should not even be the question - a 75 with our (AF)standards is not difficult. If you are only just passing, that is a signal to your leadership that the rest of your house is not in order. If you don't look reasonably fit in uniform, you will have some serious credability problems in front of commanders, first sergeants, and courtroom panel, to say nothing of your paralegals and the officers in your office when you are sucking wind during office PT.

A meathead at heart (my letters to my congressman to have pull ups along with a max bench and squat added to the AF PT have gone unanswered) I doubt I'll ever get my run down to where I can hit a 100, but I've always cleared 90 because I devoted the time necessary to be fit enough to clear 90. Everyone battles with their own limitations with PT - be it nutrition, cardio, strength, or some combination thereof. Get educated on how to overcome that and dedicate the time necessary to excel with your PT.

allAF
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Re: Military Law

Postby allAF » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:52 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:If you don't look reasonably fit in uniform, you will have some serious credability problems in front of commanders, first sergeants, and courtroom panel, to say nothing of your paralegals and the officers in your office when you are sucking wind during office PT.


So true. Perception is hugely important in the military. You don't want to be the person who is arguing to discharge someone for PT failures when you yourself are squeezed into your service blues, or have a huge set on to accommodate your girth. Realistically, a 90 should be your minimum goal. Trust me - if I can do it, I just don't see how other people can't. I'm not terribly athletic. I am not a fast runner. I'll probably never get a 100, but I should never even come close to falling below 75.

Of note - the mandatory minimums for each category have changed a bit. There are also suggested minimums for each category so you can ensure you make a 75. If you are just starting out, work to hit those. The run time gets you the most bang for your buck in terms of improving your score, so focus your efforts there unless you know you quickly improve in strength gain. Plus, better run times generally also equal smaller waists...

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Decimus
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Re: Military Law

Postby Decimus » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:30 am

allAF wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:If you don't look reasonably fit in uniform, you will have some serious credability problems in front of commanders, first sergeants, and courtroom panel, to say nothing of your paralegals and the officers in your office when you are sucking wind during office PT.


So true. Perception is hugely important in the military. You don't want to be the person who is arguing to discharge someone for PT failures when you yourself are squeezed into your service blues, or have a huge set on to accommodate your girth.


I'll add to this train of thought. Here's the skinny on PT: don't scrape by, put some effort in. But don't let it worry you too much. No one is going to be looking at your scores to decide whether to promote you or not. But if you're some fat slob who looks like a soup sandwich in uniform, fix yourself. Be able to go out and PT with your people. The infantry mentality of "I've got to beat all my people in order to hold respect" will not be true, with the possible exceptionof any of you who might be becoming USMC JAGs. In the Corps, being a rifleman will always come first so better just roger up to that right away.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:50 pm

allAF wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:If you don't look reasonably fit in uniform, you will have some serious credability problems in front of commanders, first sergeants, and courtroom panel, to say nothing of your paralegals and the officers in your office when you are sucking wind during office PT.


So true. Perception is hugely important in the military. You don't want to be the person who is arguing to discharge someone for PT failures when you yourself are squeezed into your service blues, or have a huge set on to accommodate your girth. Realistically, a 90 should be your minimum goal. Trust me - if I can do it, I just don't see how other people can't. I'm not terribly athletic. I am not a fast runner. I'll probably never get a 100, but I should never even come close to falling below 75.

Of note - the mandatory minimums for each category have changed a bit. There are also suggested minimums for each category so you can ensure you make a 75. If you are just starting out, work to hit those. The run time gets you the most bang for your buck in terms of improving your score, so focus your efforts there unless you know you quickly improve in strength gain. Plus, better run times generally also equal smaller waists...


See, I can put on strength gain like mad... It's my cardio that challenges me. If I make it theough medical to COT Ill probably be getting 9-10 points in push-ups and 8-9 points in sit-ups. That's why I'm running my ass off right now. I've already gone from a 15:45 mile and a half to a 15:02 mile in a half in the past two weeks, an I expect to be at about 14:00 for the mile and a half by the middle of next month. At least I already have the full 20 points for my waist, and the running should keep me getting that.

Alctually, the way I pack on strength is a problem in another way: I tend to add heavy muscle. I'm only like 7 pounds away from the max for my height. Hopefully the running will get me down a little more to make up for any muscle I put on.

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wvu
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Re: Military Law

Postby wvu » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:32 pm

Hey all, I've gotten really interested in JAG in the past couple of months (specifically Navy and AF). I'm applying for the internships for my 2L summer now (and trying to weigh my options if I don't get one for the best chance at a permanent position next year).

Assuming I don't get a JAG internship, I currently have a pretty open offer to intern at a county prosecutor, where they've said I should have the chance to do some actual work with a 3L practice certificate. Does that look good/bad/neutral come final application time? Should I look for something more federal? I interned last summer with the federal judiciary in DC.

Also curious about the fitness aspect; I'm definitely not in shape (read: fatty) but have started taking it more seriously since I've been looking into JAG. Would be interested in discussing specifics of that with someone in PM if possible.

Sorry if you feel anything I asked was covered, this is a big thread and I did my best to go through it. Thanks again guys!

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:37 pm

I think that my clinical/externship experiences in which I got to practice were viewed pretty favorably by the SJA who interviewed me for AF. That said, I'm not privy to the discussions held by the board. My personal opinion would be that county prosecutor would look pretty good though, if you actually got some experience.

AguasAguas!
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Re: Military Law

Postby AguasAguas! » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:46 pm

Anybody have experience applying for a waiver? And anyone on the AF December board been able to get in touch with our POC on when we should expect to go through the MEPS process? I've left a couple messages...




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