Military Law

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
BHL
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:36 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby BHL » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:50 am

3milesup wrote:Anyone have any advice on what I should have my recommenders put in their letters of recommendations??

Some of them have asked me what they should focus on.

Thanks!

Read the directions for the application or you can read through this thread since others have asked (I suppose because they failed to read the directions too).

BHL
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:36 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby BHL » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:53 am

amorphousbulge wrote:What's that about squatting with your knees touching your butt?

Also, what's the deal with getting exemptions on physical stuff?

I don't know about the exemptions.

The knees to your butt is just part of the MEPS physical. They make you do a bunch of odd movements to ensure your joints work properly (well, I'm speculating that's why they're doing it). It was rather uncomfortable.

amorphousbulge
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:36 am

Re: Military Law

Postby amorphousbulge » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:46 am

Right, what if you cant do that lol

User avatar
AMERICA
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:02 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby AMERICA » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:53 pm

Questions for the posters who are currently in the JAG process-

I haven't been able to find a list of JAG bases (by service branch). Is there a comprehensive list somewhere of the locales an Air Force or Navy JAG, for example, would be choosing from?
How did they pose your base options when you were going through the assignment process?
Are there JAGS on every base- or some places where they are more concentrated (more likely to be stationed)?
Did I read somewhere in this thread that your base assignment comes before you are obligated to serve?

The decision between military branches, for me, would be mainly based on possible locations- then type/variety of work, in that order.

User avatar
Paichka
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Paichka » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:18 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:Questions for the posters who are currently in the JAG process-

I haven't been able to find a list of JAG bases (by service branch). Is there a comprehensive list somewhere of the locales an Air Force or Navy JAG, for example, would be choosing from?
How did they pose your base options when you were going through the assignment process?
Are there JAGS on every base- or some places where they are more concentrated (more likely to be stationed)?
Did I read somewhere in this thread that your base assignment comes before you are obligated to serve?

The decision between military branches, for me, would be mainly based on possible locations- then type/variety of work, in that order.


List of Military Bases by Branch

I can't answer how they pose your base options, because I'm sure the process is different for ROTC. I know that when you enlist, you can make the location you're assigned a part of your contract. I don't know if that's an option for officers. For ROTC, we sent up a list of six requests, and then the Army assigned us based on a big order of merit list. If you weren't happy with your assignment, you could try and switch with someone once you got to the basic course.

There are JAGs on every base. Larger bases will have more JAG officers, particularly those bases with more than one divisional headquarters, like Fort Bragg (which has the 18th Airborne Corps) or Fort Hood (III Corps). Some bases are hard to get because they're very popular (Hawaii or Fort Carson), but if you can make your assignment part of your contract, you wouldn't have that problem.

If you're looking for location, the Navy and the Air Force have the best base locations. Army bases are...hit or miss.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:28 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:Questions for the posters who are currently in the JAG process-

I haven't been able to find a list of JAG bases (by service branch). Is there a comprehensive list somewhere of the locales an Air Force or Navy JAG, for example, would be choosing from?
How did they pose your base options when you were going through the assignment process?
Are there JAGS on every base- or some places where they are more concentrated (more likely to be stationed)?
Did I read somewhere in this thread that your base assignment comes before you are obligated to serve?

The decision between military branches, for me, would be mainly based on possible locations- then type/variety of work, in that order.


For Air Force JAG:

Every single base has a legal office. You can find them here:
http://www.airforce.com/contact-us/base-locator/

If you are accepted you will submit a "Dream Sheet" to JAX in which you list out your preferred bases and regions. They will work with the list when making a decision on your station assignment.

Larger bases have larger legal offices. Some bases might only have 4-5 JAGs, others might have 10+ attorneys on station. Some bases will also have multiple organizational levels on the same base, all with their own legal office. For example, a base might have the Air Base Wing, which the junior JAGs will staff, but then the base may also host that Numbered Air Force, which will have its own legal office as well (staffed with more senior JAGs, generally Majors and some senior Captains).

If you are accepted through the Direct Appointment Program, in which you are automatically commissioned after you pass the bar, you will get two base options before you sign your Oath of Office. Those options may or may not include bases listed on your Dream Sheet. I was given my #3 choice from the Dream Sheet and another base that I did not list.

If you go through GLP/OYCP, I do not believe you have a choice in your first station assignment.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AMERICA
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:02 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby AMERICA » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:06 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:If you are accepted through the Direct Appointment Program, in which you are automatically commissioned after you pass the bar, you will get two base options before you sign your Oath of Office. Those options may or may not include bases listed on your Dream Sheet. I was given my #3 choice from the Dream Sheet and another base that I did not list.

If you go through GLP/OYCP, I do not believe you have a choice in your first station assignment.


So if I want to have some level of control over my location, I should go DAP? Very helpful to know. I was originally considering OYCP just to be sure I'd get an offer.

Thanks to both of you for the info-

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Military Law

Postby 03121202698008 » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:55 am

.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CyLaw
Posts: 1557
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:59 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby CyLaw » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:21 pm

blhoward2 wrote:If you don't want the military though, go Coast Guard. (They fall under Homeland Security and are NOT a military branch).


They are military at all times, they just operate under the guidance of DHS most of the time.

US Code 14,1 wrote:The Coast Guard as established January 28, 1915, shall be a military service and a branch of the armed forces of the United States at all times. The Coast Guard shall be a service in the Department of Homeland Security, except when operating as a service in the Navy.


Edit: Just to clarify, you are correct that they are not a military branch, but they are a military service and therefore Military.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:04 pm

blhoward2 wrote:After ten years in the Air Force I can tell you that you have little control over any of your assignments. You complete a dream sheet, and if a slot if open on one of those bases for your skill level, then you get selected (although other people may have put it down and then its all about how close to the top of the pile you are). While all bases have a JAG, not all bases take new JAGS (they don't have the manpower or ability to train them. My first base wasn't on my dream sheet at all, neither was my second, my third was my #5 choice for overseas, and my fourth was my #1 choice as a follow-on assignment. Getting used to living in weird places and making the best of it is all part of the job.

I've seen two people, equal in rank and skill level, get bases not on their dream sheet, but the base they got was on the other persons dream sheet. I have friends that work in AFPC and half of them don't even understand how it works. The "system" decides you are moving and you move. Obviously, command and high-ranking slots are handled one-on-one.

Edit: I have friends in the Army, Navy, and Marines that all echo the same thing. However, go Air Force. Our quality of life is much better and we put up with much less crap. (I have spent most of my career serving in joint assignments with all the branches so I'm talking from experience here.) If you don't want the military though, go Coast Guard. (They fall under Homeland Security and are NOT a military branch).


I've got a feeling that your 10 years was not in Air Force JAG.

JAG is not under the Air Force Personnel Center and our officers do not compete against the Line Air Force for promotions. JAX handles all of the JAG assignments. It is very hands on and personal, contrasted with AFPC. I can tick off repeated instances when JAX has changed someone's assignment purely out of personal consideration for that officer. That said, the sentiment you convey is correct: Joining the military means losing the ability to control where you live. Sometimes this is awesome. I live in Las Vegas. Other times, not so much. I almost was going to be living in Grand Forks, North Dakota. I will not have any choice in where I end up for my second assignment.

When my JAG School class met with JAX in DC, the process was described as follows: JAG (usually an O-5) working JAG Officer Assignments has a list of bases that have openings for first assignment (or second, etc) JAGs. Then there is the Dream Sheet you submitted. The JAX goes down both lists trying to match one. Part of this is luck. Bases have openings at different times and depending when your assignment is determined, that opening may still exists or may have already been filled.

The only major bases (hosting a full Wing or more) I am aware of that JAGs cannot pick up as a first assignment are ROK (Osan/Kusan) and Incirlik AB in Turkey. There are obviously some jobs within the JAG Corps that require more experience and seniority to get but just about all the base assignments are fair game.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:49 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:If you are accepted through the Direct Appointment Program, in which you are automatically commissioned after you pass the bar, you will get two base options before you sign your Oath of Office. Those options may or may not include bases listed on your Dream Sheet. I was given my #3 choice from the Dream Sheet and another base that I did not list.

If you go through GLP/OYCP, I do not believe you have a choice in your first station assignment.


So if I want to have some level of control over my location, I should go DAP? Very helpful to know. I was originally considering OYCP just to be sure I'd get an offer.

Thanks to both of you for the info-


You gain SOME element of control by going through DAP. That is, if selected, you get to chose between two bases for your first assignment. Those bases might be Hickam and MacDill. They might also be Minot and Malestrom. Also keep in mind that this is only for your first assignment. Once your first two years are up, you will be moving.

In my opinion, GLP/OYCP is the better route. The selection numbers are far more agreeable in this economy. Further, I think going through ROTC gives you a better perspective of the Air Force in general. COT, in my very personal and unofficial opinion, is a joke. Going through OTS with the Chaplains and Med Group hardly gives you a firm footing of what officership entails. Field Training through ROTC probably is not the most pleasant thing on earth but you will meet a lot of people going into different AFSCs and learn some valuable skills.

User avatar
AMERICA
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:02 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby AMERICA » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:23 pm

I'm less rigid about where I end up stationed than I sound... I just want to take advantage of whatever control is available, even if the situation in general is unpredictable- I'm prepared for that. Grand Forks is the perfect example for this concern, one of my friend's fathers was stationed there as an air traffic controller, spoke about living there almost wrecking his marriage, getting frostbite in a broken down car, etc :)

I'm actually looking forward to field/officer's training, whatever I have in store before starting work. I love that kind of stuff, and unlike some TLS'ers I think it would be a good experience to be shipped somewhere uncomfortable at least once in my life.

I always see the AF quality of life argument- how much does that factor in when you live off base, go in for work every day and keep work/play separate? I've noticed people think the bases are nicer, etc- is there a difference in work or personal treatment?

User avatar
Rotor
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:09 pm

Trout: AF generally does get credit for having the best QOL, but I'd note that all depends on how you measure that quality. No doubt they have the best base facilities, but when some of those bases are Minot and Mountain Home, I don't know if there are enough base services to make up for that. If you think you'll be spending time away from base more, Navy offers more consistent quality locations than the other services. Then there is also the quality of service considerations-- personally, I prefer Navy's way of deploying (with ports of call etc) rather than AF's airborne expeditionary forces who fly into desert location, stay for months, fly out.

In the end there is no wrong answer-- just what's right for you and for me Navy QOL & QOS was perfect for me and AF wouldn't have been so.

3milesup
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:15 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 3milesup » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:33 pm

BHL wrote:
3milesup wrote:Anyone have any advice on what I should have my recommenders put in their letters of recommendations??

Some of them have asked me what they should focus on.

Thanks!

Read the directions for the application or you can read through this thread since others have asked (I suppose because they failed to read the directions too).


I suppose I should have been more clear: Anyone have any advice on what I should have my Army & Navy JAG Corps application recommenders put in their letters of recommendations??

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Military Law

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:12 am

.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AMERICA
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:02 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby AMERICA » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:54 am

Rotor wrote:Trout: AF generally does get credit for having the best QOL, but I'd note that all depends on how you measure that quality. No doubt they have the best base facilities, but when some of those bases are Minot and Mountain Home, I don't know if there are enough base services to make up for that. If you think you'll be spending time away from base more, Navy offers more consistent quality locations than the other services. Then there is also the quality of service considerations-- personally, I prefer Navy's way of deploying (with ports of call etc) rather than AF's airborne expeditionary forces who fly into desert location, stay for months, fly out.

In the end there is no wrong answer-- just what's right for you and for me Navy QOL & QOS was perfect for me and AF wouldn't have been so.


I did consider that Navy seems to have more locations I would be happy living in. At least the odds would be in my favor if assignments are often random.

Thanks for the info everyone. Very very helpful.

User avatar
wolfpack-avvocato
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wolfpack-avvocato » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:27 am

If I were to join Army JAG, after 4 years how long are you stuck in reserves? What are the odds of you getting called up? By website description I am interested in the work you do in Army JAG, and if I can get all that experience in 4 years than bail, that's an ideal situation, I at this point in time have no interest in doing JAG as a career.


Edit: I may as well put all my questions in one post. Would going to a higher ranked law school increase your chances of getting accepted to a summer internship? Or is it more your class ranking that is the determining factor? Or is it like everything else and a mysterious combination of both?

nickc321
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby nickc321 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:56 am

wolfpack-avvocato wrote:If I were to join Army JAG, after 4 years how long are you stuck in reserves? What are the odds of you getting called up? By website description I am interested in the work you do in Army JAG, and if I can get all that experience in 4 years than bail, that's an ideal situation, I at this point in time have no interest in doing JAG as a career.


Edit: I may as well put all my questions in one post. Would going to a higher ranked law school increase your chances of getting accepted to a summer internship? Or is it more your class ranking that is the determining factor? Or is it like everything else and a mysterious combination of both?



4 years inactive. As far as I know, in the AF, no one has ever been called back to active duty. It seems that short of WWIII you are done in 4 years. I would assume the Army is the same.

As far as the internship is concerned, I believe it is the mysterious combination of factors. FWIW I was accepted for an AF internship from a low ranked school with an extremely high class rank.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:02 pm

*
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

typodragon
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:51 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby typodragon » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:58 pm

I know some t14, top 10% people who are seriously applying to jag this year. it's a crazy world.

User avatar
J-Rod
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:27 pm

typodragon wrote:I know some t14, top 10% people who are seriously applying to jag this year. it's a crazy world.


because they're scared of the market? or because they actually want to do JAG? In the last year and a half JAG applications have gone up somewhere in the realm of 600%. Mostly because of the market being the way it is, but it has become much more competitive. They have gone up somewhat because people have become more interested in JAG as well.

I know that 20 people at my T10 school interviewed on grounds for the Army JAG Internship, and only one of us got it.

I don't think school matters a whole lot. The better a school you go to, it certainly won't hurt your application, but if you're lacking in the other qualities that they're looking for in an officer in the JAG Corps, regardless of branch, you're not going to get offered a commission.

FeuerFrei
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby FeuerFrei » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:48 pm

.
Last edited by FeuerFrei on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:26 pm

The unofficial word is that AF JAG will be matching the Army's loan repayment program (up through $65K). The precise terms have not been announced but implimentation has been pushed through by the senior JAG Corps leadership. My understanding is that it is at the CSAF/SECAF level now but we were given a warm fuzzy that it will be approved for fiscal year 2010.

All I have for you now.

3milesup
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:15 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 3milesup » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:09 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:The unofficial word is that AF JAG will be matching the Army's loan repayment program (up through $65K). The precise terms have not been announced but implimentation has been pushed through by the senior JAG Corps leadership. My understanding is that it is at the CSAF/SECAF level now but we were given a warm fuzzy that it will be approved for fiscal year 2010.


Any one know if Navy JAGC is contemplating the same??

nickc321
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby nickc321 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:20 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:The unofficial word is that AF JAG will be matching the Army's loan repayment program (up through $65K). The precise terms have not been announced but implimentation has been pushed through by the senior JAG Corps leadership. My understanding is that it is at the CSAF/SECAF level now but we were given a warm fuzzy that it will be approved for fiscal year 2010.

All I have for you now.



Any idea if this will apply to all active duty JAs or only those who are accepted after a certain date?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.