Military Law

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
kellettp
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby kellettp » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:18 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
kellettp wrote:Got first assignment orders for Barksdale. Anyone have any information they could let me in on for a new JA there? Also, any advice on where to live? Thanks.


Congrats - I think Barksdale is a great first assignment. You'll be with the Bomb Wing (B-52 BUFFs), falling under Global Strike Command. There is a lot of brass at the base as well (it is a bit like Scott AFB in terms of structure) where you will have the 3-Star NAF and the 4-Star Major Command all sharing the same space. I'm pretty sure there are some reserve units there as well with additional B-52 squadrons and an A-10 squadron. Quite a bit going on.

With the flying mission, there will be plenty of courts for you if that is your goal (and maybe even if it isn't).

I've never been stationed there, so I cannot comment on the living situation. You'll get set up with a sponsor in the legal office that can give you the boots on the ground perspective. I would also check out http://www.ahrn.com/ when you can. You may need a .mil email account but once you get your orders, they may let you sign up in advance.


As always, thanks for the insight and great info, Bateman!

allAF
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:39 am

Re: Military Law

Postby allAF » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:52 pm

doolie wrote: I'm curious who told JAG Dog that the interviewing SJA does a rack-n-stack. If that actually happens, it is a new development in the AF JAG application process. Interview packages are usually processed immediately after the interview takes place. A rack-n-stack would be impossible. Getting a strong recommendation from a Colonel or LtCol SJA at a big base is better than a recommendation from an SJA who is a Major or LtCol at a small base. LtCol SJAs at big bases are placed in those assignments because they are well-regarded and likely to make Colonel. Keep in mind that the SJA interview is only one part of the overall record. They are looking for well-rounded individuals who will fit in with the organizational culture. Even the photograph matters because they are looking to see if the candidate is physically fit. If a prospective candidate wants to put forth the best application he/she can, that individual should do some research on military culture and AF JAG culture in particular. In doing that research, he/she may realize being a JAG is his/her calling and be even more committed to the process or that he/she would be better off pursuing something else.


Doolie - we definitely rack and stack. I don't believe this is a "new development" as I am quite sure that happened to my application back when I applied as well. The SJA's job is to compare everyone that came through their office and identify their top candidates for each board. The SJA writes a summary for each candidate, ranks them in order of strongest to weakest, and includes all that in the big batch of packages that are sent up as a group to the board. At my first base (a big AF base in a big metro area), we had tons of great candidates come through, many of whom would no doubt have made fine JAGs. But, the nature of rack-and-stacking is that there can only be one #1.

You are absolutely right that well-respected SJAs and those at bigger bases with more applicants may get more than one applicant "in" at a given board, but that isn't necessarily due to reputation or rank. It is also a numbers game, and it can play either way in a given applicant's favor. Speaking generally, you either want to be #1 at a smaller base (with presumably fewer applicants), or #1-2 or 3 at a larger base (with presumably more applicants). In our case, being a big base with lots of applicants, usually our #s 2 and 3 also got picked up. That wasn't always the case, however. Sometimes people were #1 or #2 and didn't get picked up at all.

Insert here the important reminder that the physical fitness aspect of your application is EXTREMELY important. We had an amazing candidate who did not get picked up, despite being highly ranked by our awesome and very well-respected SJA. The feedback was that the AF was concerned about the potential fitness issue. So, be warned that the photograph documents potential fitness as well as your general professionalism. It isn't necessary to hire a professional photog, but obviously avoid piles of dirty laundry or beer bottles or other weird and inappropriate things. You don't have to be in perfect shape to apply, but you have to be working on it and getting close to where you need to be.

Also insert here the reminder that EVERYONE in the office can provide input on an applicant they meet...even someone who only saw you for a minute.

Finally, it is worth stressing that your interview can break/destroy an otherwise great package. It doesn't matter if you're great on paper. If you come across badly to your SJA, you are done. Believe me, we heard all kinds of stories about crazy things that otherwise amazingly-qualified people said or did. When you have a ton of great applicants with lots of different great aspects, that interview becomes EXTREMELY important. If you think you are just mediocre on paper but have great volunteer/public-interest activities, a great interview, and really impress the SJA and the office, that can push you up to the top.

While it is probably true that higher ranked SJA's get more for their recommendations than a more junior SJA, JagDog's strategy totally made sense based on our practices. The advice he apparently got (and followed) is exactly what I usually recommend.

User avatar
Esquire
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:45 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:46 am

If you interview, you are ranked against other applicants.

armyhooah
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Military Law

Postby armyhooah » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:45 am

Made it as an Army AD select. I am beyond grateful. It could have been anyone here and probably most who applied. Thank you all for your contributions. I'll try to give back to the thread as much as it's given to me, but I honestly think if future applicants take the time to read through the already 200+ pages, it's pretty much all been covered. The rest is up to chance and stars aligning. Hope you all are enjoying the holidays and Happy New Year!

theinvisiblehand
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:16 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby theinvisiblehand » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:47 pm

Because of the delay in releasing Army JAG internship results, I decided to accept another offer that was about to expire. Does anyone know if it is expected that I contact JARO to withdraw my application, or should I just wait for the results to come out? I know the chances of actually getting the internship are very low, but I do not want to waste anyone's time or be disrespectful to the other applicants in consideration. Thanks.

doolie
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:02 am

Re: Military Law

Postby doolie » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:06 pm

allAF wrote:
doolie wrote: I'm curious who told JAG Dog that the interviewing SJA does a rack-n-stack. If that actually happens, it is a new development in the AF JAG application process. Interview packages are usually processed immediately after the interview takes place. A rack-n-stack would be impossible. Getting a strong recommendation from a Colonel or LtCol SJA at a big base is better than a recommendation from an SJA who is a Major or LtCol at a small base. LtCol SJAs at big bases are placed in those assignments because they are well-regarded and likely to make Colonel. Keep in mind that the SJA interview is only one part of the overall record. They are looking for well-rounded individuals who will fit in with the organizational culture. Even the photograph matters because they are looking to see if the candidate is physically fit. If a prospective candidate wants to put forth the best application he/she can, that individual should do some research on military culture and AF JAG culture in particular. In doing that research, he/she may realize being a JAG is his/her calling and be even more committed to the process or that he/she would be better off pursuing something else.


Doolie - we definitely rack and stack. I don't believe this is a "new development" as I am quite sure that happened to my application back when I applied as well. The SJA's job is to compare everyone that came through their office and identify their top candidates for each board. The SJA writes a summary for each candidate, ranks them in order of strongest to weakest, and includes all that in the big batch of packages that are sent up as a group to the board. At my first base (a big AF base in a big metro area), we had tons of great candidates come through, many of whom would no doubt have made fine JAGs. But, the nature of rack-and-stacking is that there can only be one #1.

You are absolutely right that well-respected SJAs and those at bigger bases with more applicants may get more than one applicant "in" at a given board, but that isn't necessarily due to reputation or rank. It is also a numbers game, and it can play either way in a given applicant's favor. Speaking generally, you either want to be #1 at a smaller base (with presumably fewer applicants), or #1-2 or 3 at a larger base (with presumably more applicants). In our case, being a big base with lots of applicants, usually our #s 2 and 3 also got picked up. That wasn't always the case, however. Sometimes people were #1 or #2 and didn't get picked up at all.

Insert here the important reminder that the physical fitness aspect of your application is EXTREMELY important. We had an amazing candidate who did not get picked up, despite being highly ranked by our awesome and very well-respected SJA. The feedback was that the AF was concerned about the potential fitness issue. So, be warned that the photograph documents potential fitness as well as your general professionalism. It isn't necessary to hire a professional photog, but obviously avoid piles of dirty laundry or beer bottles or other weird and inappropriate things. You don't have to be in perfect shape to apply, but you have to be working on it and getting close to where you need to be.

Also insert here the reminder that EVERYONE in the office can provide input on an applicant they meet...even someone who only saw you for a minute.

Finally, it is worth stressing that your interview can break/destroy an otherwise great package. It doesn't matter if you're great on paper. If you come across badly to your SJA, you are done. Believe me, we heard all kinds of stories about crazy things that otherwise amazingly-qualified people said or did. When you have a ton of great applicants with lots of different great aspects, that interview becomes EXTREMELY important. If you think you are just mediocre on paper but have great volunteer/public-interest activities, a great interview, and really impress the SJA and the office, that can push you up to the top.

While it is probably true that higher ranked SJA's get more for their recommendations than a more junior SJA, JagDog's strategy totally made sense based on our practices. The advice he apparently got (and followed) is exactly what I usually recommend.



You can't rack-n-stack against candidates you haven't interviewed yet. The SJA would have to hold on to all of the applications until just before the deadline and rate them all at once otherwise the ranking is meaningless. I know for a fact that is not what happened a few years ago and I know what those files looked like. The board does the real rack-n-stack based on how they score the packages and I completely agree that if the SJA tubes the application, the individual won't make it. What I'm debating is whether a positive recommendation from a lower ranking SJA at a small base carries more weight than a positive recommendation from a higher ranking SJA at a big base. Maybe JAX has changed the process and wants the SJAs to hold on to the applications until they are done interviewing so they can rack-n-stack, but I know that was definitely not the process a few years ago. I'm not saying that a candidate can't get picked up because they interview at a small base. What I'm disputing is this notion that it's somehow better to interview at a small base than a large one based on the premise that SJAs rack-n-stack the people they interview.

FeuerFrei
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby FeuerFrei » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:15 pm

doolie wrote:
allAF wrote:
doolie wrote: I'm curious who told JAG Dog that the interviewing SJA does a rack-n-stack. If that actually happens, it is a new development in the AF JAG application process. Interview packages are usually processed immediately after the interview takes place. A rack-n-stack would be impossible. Getting a strong recommendation from a Colonel or LtCol SJA at a big base is better than a recommendation from an SJA who is a Major or LtCol at a small base. LtCol SJAs at big bases are placed in those assignments because they are well-regarded and likely to make Colonel. Keep in mind that the SJA interview is only one part of the overall record. They are looking for well-rounded individuals who will fit in with the organizational culture. Even the photograph matters because they are looking to see if the candidate is physically fit. If a prospective candidate wants to put forth the best application he/she can, that individual should do some research on military culture and AF JAG culture in particular. In doing that research, he/she may realize being a JAG is his/her calling and be even more committed to the process or that he/she would be better off pursuing something else.


Doolie - we definitely rack and stack. I don't believe this is a "new development" as I am quite sure that happened to my application back when I applied as well. The SJA's job is to compare everyone that came through their office and identify their top candidates for each board. The SJA writes a summary for each candidate, ranks them in order of strongest to weakest, and includes all that in the big batch of packages that are sent up as a group to the board. At my first base (a big AF base in a big metro area), we had tons of great candidates come through, many of whom would no doubt have made fine JAGs. But, the nature of rack-and-stacking is that there can only be one #1.

You are absolutely right that well-respected SJAs and those at bigger bases with more applicants may get more than one applicant "in" at a given board, but that isn't necessarily due to reputation or rank. It is also a numbers game, and it can play either way in a given applicant's favor. Speaking generally, you either want to be #1 at a smaller base (with presumably fewer applicants), or #1-2 or 3 at a larger base (with presumably more applicants). In our case, being a big base with lots of applicants, usually our #s 2 and 3 also got picked up. That wasn't always the case, however. Sometimes people were #1 or #2 and didn't get picked up at all.

Insert here the important reminder that the physical fitness aspect of your application is EXTREMELY important. We had an amazing candidate who did not get picked up, despite being highly ranked by our awesome and very well-respected SJA. The feedback was that the AF was concerned about the potential fitness issue. So, be warned that the photograph documents potential fitness as well as your general professionalism. It isn't necessary to hire a professional photog, but obviously avoid piles of dirty laundry or beer bottles or other weird and inappropriate things. You don't have to be in perfect shape to apply, but you have to be working on it and getting close to where you need to be.

Also insert here the reminder that EVERYONE in the office can provide input on an applicant they meet...even someone who only saw you for a minute.

Finally, it is worth stressing that your interview can break/destroy an otherwise great package. It doesn't matter if you're great on paper. If you come across badly to your SJA, you are done. Believe me, we heard all kinds of stories about crazy things that otherwise amazingly-qualified people said or did. When you have a ton of great applicants with lots of different great aspects, that interview becomes EXTREMELY important. If you think you are just mediocre on paper but have great volunteer/public-interest activities, a great interview, and really impress the SJA and the office, that can push you up to the top.

While it is probably true that higher ranked SJA's get more for their recommendations than a more junior SJA, JagDog's strategy totally made sense based on our practices. The advice he apparently got (and followed) is exactly what I usually recommend.



You can't rack-n-stack against candidates you haven't interviewed yet. The SJA would have to hold on to all of the applications until just before the deadline and rate them all at once otherwise the ranking is meaningless. I know for a fact that is not what happened a few years ago and I know what those files looked like. The board does the real rack-n-stack based on how they score the packages and I completely agree that if the SJA tubes the application, the individual won't make it. What I'm debating is whether a positive recommendation from a lower ranking SJA at a small base carries more weight than a positive recommendation from a higher ranking SJA at a big base. Maybe JAX has changed the process and wants the SJAs to hold on to the applications until they are done interviewing so they can rack-n-stack, but I know that was definitely not the process a few years ago. I'm not saying that a candidate can't get picked up because they interview at a small base. What I'm disputing is this notion that it's somehow better to interview at a small base than a large one based on the premise that SJAs rack-n-stack the people they interview.


I interviewed in 2011 and my SJA held all of the applications until the day before the deadline and shipped them to JAX all at once. There was a rack and stack.

User avatar
Moves like JAGger
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:18 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Moves like JAGger » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:09 am

FWIW, I was picked up by the April board and my SJA interviewer told me directly that he racks and stacks the applicants. That was the actual term he used.

I interviewed at a small base.

User avatar
Black Hat
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Black Hat » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:35 am

armyhooah wrote:Made it as an Army AD select. I am beyond grateful. It could have been anyone here and probably most who applied. Thank you all for your contributions. I'll try to give back to the thread as much as it's given to me, but I honestly think if future applicants take the time to read through the already 200+ pages, it's pretty much all been covered. The rest is up to chance and stars aligning. Hope you all are enjoying the holidays and Happy New Year!


What are your stats like? If you don't mind me asking.

I know the whole thing is competitive. I am prior military. I just cant imagine them turning prior military away.

armyhooah
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Military Law

Postby armyhooah » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:13 am

Black Hat wrote:
armyhooah wrote:Made it as an Army AD select. I am beyond grateful. It could have been anyone here and probably most who applied. Thank you all for your contributions. I'll try to give back to the thread as much as it's given to me, but I honestly think if future applicants take the time to read through the already 200+ pages, it's pretty much all been covered. The rest is up to chance and stars aligning. Hope you all are enjoying the holidays and Happy New Year!


What are your stats like? If you don't mind me asking.

I know the whole thing is competitive. I am prior military. I just cant imagine them turning prior military away.


I don't mind. I was already licensed. Graduated in 2012. I was not at the top of the class. On journal and and won awards in moot court. Not prior military. I had very personal reasons for wanting to join and conveyed that in my application. Also interned for JAG and had strong recommendations from that experience.

I think prior military will really help in that you won't have to convince anyone you can keep up physically and that you'll fit into the lifestyle. I was asked repeatedly about this, and you won't have that hurdle at least.

Best of luck!

User avatar
Black Hat
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Black Hat » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:19 am

armyhooah wrote:
Black Hat wrote:
armyhooah wrote:Made it as an Army AD select. I am beyond grateful. It could have been anyone here and probably most who applied. Thank you all for your contributions. I'll try to give back to the thread as much as it's given to me, but I honestly think if future applicants take the time to read through the already 200+ pages, it's pretty much all been covered. The rest is up to chance and stars aligning. Hope you all are enjoying the holidays and Happy New Year!


What are your stats like? If you don't mind me asking.

I know the whole thing is competitive. I am prior military. I just cant imagine them turning prior military away.


I don't mind. I was already licensed. Graduated in 2012. I was not at the top of the class. On journal and and won awards in moot court. Not prior military. I had very personal reasons for wanting to join and conveyed that in my application. Also interned for JAG and had strong recommendations from that experience.

I think prior military will really help in that you won't have to convince anyone you can keep up physically and that you'll fit into the lifestyle. I was asked repeatedly about this, and you won't have that hurdle at least.

Best of luck!


Thanks!

trayball23
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:34 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby trayball23 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:05 pm

Was accepted Navy JAG last year and was wondering if anyone had any information on duty stations. I am interested in doing operational law and was wondering if certain locations lend themselves more to getting that type of billet than others. thanks

31415926
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 31415926 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:51 pm

Does anyone have any experience with reapplying later if you've already been selected? I've been picked up for all three services but, due to life reasons, may have to decline in favor of another job offer I have on the table at the moment. I very much want to serve as a JAG, but it simply isn't looking feasible at the moment. Would I be barring myself from ever being selected again if I decline now?

User avatar
Black Hat
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Black Hat » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:34 pm

31415926 wrote:Does anyone have any experience with reapplying later if you've already been selected? I've been picked up for all three services but, due to life reasons, may have to decline in favor of another job offer I have on the table at the moment. I very much want to serve as a JAG, but it simply isn't looking feasible at the moment. Would I be barring myself from ever being selected again if I decline now?



What are your stats like if you don't mind me asking?

I don't have an answer to your question that would be based on any tangible reputable source. I am prior military and life stuff happens all the time. Intuition tells me it wouldn't hurt if you applied again later. But I just cant say with any degree of certainty.

JAGGER
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:12 am

Re: Military Law

Postby JAGGER » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:48 pm

trayball23 wrote:Was accepted Navy JAG last year and was wondering if anyone had any information on duty stations. I am interested in doing operational law and was wondering if certain locations lend themselves more to getting that type of billet than others. thanks


Current Navy JAG. As a first-tour judge advocate, you will not get to do much operational law regardless of which base you are assigned to because you are required to complete Military Justice (prosecution/defense) and general legal assistance (wills, family law, consumer law) as part of a program that has been implemented for new JAGs in an effort to provide them with general expertise before throwing them into military tribunals.

However, from what I gather, for your later tours you would be advised to go overseas to a base in Japan, Italy, or the Horn of Africa if you would like to practice operational law. Obviously being at sea will also enable you to practice operational law. (DC, Norfolk, and/or San Diego might also apply, but I could be wrong.) The bottom line is that you will want to make the case to your detailer that your education, experience, and passion would make you well-suited to a base that would allow you to practice operational law.

Best of luck.

User avatar
Bassett16
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:59 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Bassett16 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:32 pm

Any idea on what the best preparation for JAG service may be? Looking for both courses and internships...

Possible internships: Federal Defenders, District Attorney, USAO, Public Defender, NLRB, EEOC
Possible elective classes: Labor/employment law, military law, any flavor of criminal law, admin law, environmental law, tax law, Fed Courts?

Our internships with the DA/PD allow you to sit second chair, however its going to be state law focused and military practice will not involve much state law. USAO/Fed Defenders will deal with federal law, which while probably substantively more applicable to be immersed in, will likely be a more "indirect" experience in terms of trying cases.

NLRB/EEOC and/or environmental classes and internships would be to get some exposure to the administrative law that the military deals with so much.

I'm on an active-duty JAG program so no need for a "JAG" internship (I'll do those over the summer)--just looking for the best education/experience base possible to make up for my three years spent in law school and out of the fleet--basically just looking for what's going to enable me to hit the ground running as a baby lawyer but relatively seasoned military officer.

Any advice appreciated, particularly from current and/or past Judge Advocates!

User avatar
howell
Posts: 502
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:52 pm

Bassett, what service - Navy? It will change a bit depending on where you're going to end up, because each JAG corps is run a bit differently.

For any of them, court experience and a focus on criminal law in law school would be helpful, because you will likely be in the courtroom very quickly. Certainly take Evidence, the Crim Pros, and associated classes. Get all of the trial practice courses and extracurriculars you can, because, for most people, you're not going to learn Evidence and other topics until you actually have to use it on your feet. Rather, you will have to use it on your feet, so being able to write a brilliant 30 page essay on the validity of a particular hearsay objection is not as useful as identifying issues on the fly in time to act on them and being able to respond to the judge when necessary. So get on the mock trial team and, of lesser importance, moot court.

Even better than that (for the most part) would be getting a job where you can practice in court. Others may disagree, but I don't think state vs. federal matters much at all. Unless you can get the chance to practice in a military court (which is not outside the realm of possibilities during your summers), there will be a transition to the UCMJ. The skills of being able to follow and apply procedure and evidence rules are what you want to build - what those specific rules are can be adapted to quickly. I would rather see someone have tried a few cases as a 3L than written a few briefs. You have a couple of years to do intern/externships, so you can still mix it up, but get practice in front of a judge if you can.

If you're Navy, then my understanding is that Ops Law would be the next biggest focus (Navy people, correct me if I'm wrong). Thus, classes in Military Law, International Law, and the like would be helpful. If you can get internships related to that, then awesome, but they'll be harder to come by than trial/practice internships. If you're not Navy, then I would just dabble in these subjects to at least get a background in them, because you probably won't be using much in this area your first few years.

If you're not Navy, then legal assistance and civil law-type stuff would be your next focus area (although AD NAVY JAGs may do legal assistance - ?). Take a wills course. You can possibly get some experience working with legal assistance subjects while volunteering. On the civil law side, take both Con Laws and Admin Law. Maybe an Employment/Labor Law if you're feeling nerdy.

If you're going to be spending your summers in JAG offices, then certainly start paying attention to what they're doing there and asking around about what would be helpful to learn. Take into consideration that the office where you intern may have a very different mission than where you start after law school.

User avatar
howell
Posts: 502
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:17 pm

Would anyone here want to be the new OP? My thought is we could then organize the first post to provide a summary, links, updates, etc.

JDdrummer89
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby JDdrummer89 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:19 pm

NavyJAG1 wrote:
JDdrummer89 wrote:Hi all, I'm a 2L who's pretty new to this thread but it seems like a fantastic resource for JAG. I'm 0/1 Navy so far but plan to apply again. Congrats to everyone selected for all branches this round!

I have a question about grades: my 1L grades were all fine, but this semester I really bombed my evidence exam and came out with a C-. I managed to get an A in every other class (so I think my overall GPA will actually go up), but I am really worried that the C- will stick out as a black mark on my transcript. I have already contacted my professor and plan to talk with him about the exam and what I can do to improve. Any advice on how much one C- will hurt my JAG chances?


The selection board will have access to your transcript - evidence is a pretty important subject in our line of work. However, I doubt it will have much, if any, real effect.


Thanks NavyJAG1. Nice to know I'm not out of the running haha. I plan to take as many crim law-oriented classes as possible and I have some other stuff on my application that can offset the C- (moot court, did a Navy internship this past summer, etc.).

User avatar
LSATmakesMeNeurotic
Posts: 941
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:17 am

Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:45 pm

howell wrote:Would anyone here want to be the new OP? My thought is we could then organize the first post to provide a summary, links, updates, etc.


That's a great idea! I might have the time to clean it up if needed.

User avatar
Bassett16
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:59 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Bassett16 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:51 pm

howell wrote:Bassett, what service - Navy? It will change a bit depending on where you're going to end up, because each JAG corps is run a bit differently.

For any of them, court experience and a focus on criminal law in law school would be helpful, because you will likely be in the courtroom very quickly. Certainly take Evidence, the Crim Pros, and associated classes. Get all of the trial practice courses and extracurriculars you can, because, for most people, you're not going to learn Evidence and other topics until you actually have to use it on your feet. Rather, you will have to use it on your feet, so being able to write a brilliant 30 page essay on the validity of a particular hearsay objection is not as useful as identifying issues on the fly in time to act on them and being able to respond to the judge when necessary. So get on the mock trial team and, of lesser importance, moot court.

Even better than that (for the most part) would be getting a job where you can practice in court. Others may disagree, but I don't think state vs. federal matters much at all. Unless you can get the chance to practice in a military court (which is not outside the realm of possibilities during your summers), there will be a transition to the UCMJ. The skills of being able to follow and apply procedure and evidence rules are what you want to build - what those specific rules are can be adapted to quickly. I would rather see someone have tried a few cases as a 3L than written a few briefs. You have a couple of years to do intern/externships, so you can still mix it up, but get practice in front of a judge if you can.

If you're Navy, then my understanding is that Ops Law would be the next biggest focus (Navy people, correct me if I'm wrong). Thus, classes in Military Law, International Law, and the like would be helpful. If you can get internships related to that, then awesome, but they'll be harder to come by than trial/practice internships. If you're not Navy, then I would just dabble in these subjects to at least get a background in them, because you probably won't be using much in this area your first few years.

If you're not Navy, then legal assistance and civil law-type stuff would be your next focus area (although AD NAVY JAGs may do legal assistance - ?). Take a wills course. You can possibly get some experience working with legal assistance subjects while volunteering. On the civil law side, take both Con Laws and Admin Law. Maybe an Employment/Labor Law if you're feeling nerdy.

If you're going to be spending your summers in JAG offices, then certainly start paying attention to what they're doing there and asking around about what would be helpful to learn. Take into consideration that the office where you intern may have a very different mission than where you start after law school.


@Howell--Thanks a lot for the insight. I'm going to take your advice into consideration in my degree planning. Much appreciated!!

31415926
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 31415926 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:48 pm

Black Hat wrote:
31415926 wrote:Does anyone have any experience with reapplying later if you've already been selected? I've been picked up for all three services but, due to life reasons, may have to decline in favor of another job offer I have on the table at the moment. I very much want to serve as a JAG, but it simply isn't looking feasible at the moment. Would I be barring myself from ever being selected again if I decline now?



What are your stats like if you don't mind me asking?

I don't have an answer to your question that would be based on any tangible reputable source. I am prior military and life stuff happens all the time. Intuition tells me it wouldn't hurt if you applied again later. But I just cant say with any degree of certainty.


Pm-ed!

Billyp
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Billyp » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:57 pm

Wellsfargowagon wrote:Did you consider the Graduate Law Program or the One-Year College Program?


Do you know how hard it is to get into one of these programs? Do they basically take you if you apply or is it just as competitive as JAG itself?

User avatar
BigJH18
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:07 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby BigJH18 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:22 pm

Billyp wrote:
Wellsfargowagon wrote:Did you consider the Graduate Law Program or the One-Year College Program?


Do you know how hard it is to get into one of these programs? Do they basically take you if you apply or is it just as competitive as JAG itself?


I am currently applying for the OYCP. You should go and read through the forum. I spent a couple hours going through the pages and reading up on people's posts. I can only speak from what I have read and the sentiment is that it is harder because less people are accepted. More people apply through DAP and more get accepted through that route. For OYCP and GLP there are less applicants but the acceptance rate is also lower.

I have been working very hard on my application and doing a lot of research because it is very competitive and I want a perfect application with no minor errors. Everything I've read tells me that attention to detail is very important.

Read through Patrick Bateman, Allaf and AFJAG2014's posts. They have been a tremendous help to me. If you are serious then invest the time in doing the research and you will thank yourself.

ouhkn
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:20 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby ouhkn » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:21 pm

Thanks for the thread, everyone--very informative. I have a question I have not seen answered yet. I'm a current 3L who summered with a biglaw firm last summer and received and accepted their offer. However, for a variety of reasons, I'd really like to apply for the JAG Corps. I'd prefer to keep my firm out of the loop on this for obvious reasons. Does anyone know if recruiters contact your past employers in the application process?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.