Military Law

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:19 pm

Just got my letter of reject from USAF. It clearly states that I will be reconsidered in December automatically, and I have to affirmatively opt out if I wouldn't like to be reconsidered.

So... If your mail is running slower than mine for whatever reason, now you have even more confirmation of what we've all been hearing.

boarder78
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Re: Military Law

Postby boarder78 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:10 am

If we are still "Under Completeness Review" 3 weeks later, does that mean it'll take longer to get results?
(Army - my 2nd time applying)

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JAG Dog
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Dog » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:51 pm

Anyone know what the deal is with deployment these days for AF JAG? Last I heard ( which was a while ago), it's not as common as it had been, and no longer automatic in the first 4 years. Just how likely is it?

yurishima
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Re: Military Law

Postby yurishima » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:15 pm

Is December the last chance for 3Ls graduating next spring? I know there's an April Board, but that's cutting it so close... We have to undergo training and whatnot, too. Any thoughts?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:17 am

JAG Dog wrote:Anyone know what the deal is with deployment these days for AF JAG? Last I heard ( which was a while ago), it's not as common as it had been, and no longer automatic in the first 4 years. Just how likely is it?


Winding down for sure, especially compared to when I came in, but there are still opportunities out there. I know 6-7 AF JAGs at the Capt level deployed in the right now in the CENTCOM AOR and those are just the folks I am professionally/personally acquainted with. There are also some newer deployments coming available, such as Djibouti (Camp Lemonnier), in addition to the long time classics of Qatar (Al Udied AB) and Guantanamo Bay.

I highly recommend all the newbie JAGs to get a deployment if at all possible. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

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JAG Dog
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Dog » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:26 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
JAG Dog wrote:Anyone know what the deal is with deployment these days for AF JAG? Last I heard ( which was a while ago), it's not as common as it had been, and no longer automatic in the first 4 years. Just how likely is it?


Winding down for sure, especially compared to when I came in, but there are still opportunities out there. I know 6-7 AF JAGs at the Capt level deployed in the right now in the CENTCOM AOR and those are just the folks I am professionally/personally acquainted with. There are also some newer deployments coming available, such as Djibouti (Camp Lemonnier), in addition to the long time classics of Qatar (Al Udied AB) and Guantanamo Bay.

I highly recommend all the newbie JAGs to get a deployment if at all possible. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity.


Clearly you're a fan of deployment, and I'm sure it is quite the experience. I'm a family man, though, and I feel like it could be less than ideal in my situation. Did the 6 or 7 you know put in for deployment? I guess what I'm asking is how likely deployment is for someone who doesn't necessarily want it?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:07 am

JAG Dog wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
JAG Dog wrote:Anyone know what the deal is with deployment these days for AF JAG? Last I heard ( which was a while ago), it's not as common as it had been, and no longer automatic in the first 4 years. Just how likely is it?


Winding down for sure, especially compared to when I came in, but there are still opportunities out there. I know 6-7 AF JAGs at the Capt level deployed in the right now in the CENTCOM AOR and those are just the folks I am professionally/personally acquainted with. There are also some newer deployments coming available, such as Djibouti (Camp Lemonnier), in addition to the long time classics of Qatar (Al Udied AB) and Guantanamo Bay.

I highly recommend all the newbie JAGs to get a deployment if at all possible. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity.


Clearly you're a fan of deployment, and I'm sure it is quite the experience. I'm a family man, though, and I feel like it could be less than ideal in my situation. Did the 6 or 7 you know put in for deployment? I guess what I'm asking is how likely deployment is for someone who doesn't necessarily want it?


My best advice on this is that if you pursue/accept an active duty commission, you and your loved ones are mentally prepared for you deploying. The majority of people I know over there now and in the past had families they left behind. Just like PT testing, PCSing every 2-3 years, and all the other pains that come with military service, deploying is just one of those things that comes with the job. I know JAGs in my year group that have gone their five years with deploying. I also know some that have been deployed twice in that time span. Ultimately if it is determined you are best qualified and are the person tasked, not wanting to go is not an option (no one is going to ask you) and having a family is not going to carry much weight.

Ranger85
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Re: Military Law

Postby Ranger85 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:32 am

boarder78 wrote:If we are still "Under Completeness Review" 3 weeks later, does that mean it'll take longer to get results?
(Army - my 2nd time applying)



Mine says the same thing. Maybe they just aren't concerned with changing it. My interviewer said the board meets for a week to go through all of the applications. So maybe they will meet this week or first week of DEC.

womeninblack
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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:41 am

yurishima wrote:Is December the last chance for 3Ls graduating next spring? I know there's an April Board, but that's cutting it so close... We have to undergo training and whatnot, too. Any thoughts?


April is the last chance to apply during 3L year. I'm not sure what you mean by cutting it close with regard to training . . . Everyone who gets selected for AF JAG during their 3L year (Oct., Dec., or Apr.) is in the same position when it comes to training. We have to take and pass the bar before we actually enter into service and begin training. April is cutting it close to graduation, but not really anything else.

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:45 am

Ranger85 wrote:
boarder78 wrote:If we are still "Under Completeness Review" 3 weeks later, does that mean it'll take longer to get results?
(Army - my 2nd time applying)



Mine says the same thing. Maybe they just aren't concerned with changing it. My interviewer said the board meets for a week to go through all of the applications. So maybe they will meet this week or first week of DEC.


Mine just changed to "Pending Board Decision." I submitted my application on October 31, so maybe yours will change shortly. I doubt they'll meet this week with the Thanksgiving holiday.

yurishima
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Re: Military Law

Postby yurishima » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:49 am

womeninblack wrote:April is the last chance to apply during 3L year. I'm not sure what you mean by cutting it close with regard to training . . . Everyone who gets selected for AF JAG during their 3L year (Oct., Dec., or Apr.) is in the same position when it comes to training. We have to take and pass the bar before we actually enter into service and begin training. April is cutting it close to graduation, but not really anything else.


OK! That's encouraging. So I'll just have to make sure my grades are good this semester, take some nice practical classes next semester, hopefully advance to the next round of moot court, and, most importantly, tighten up my interview skills.

And now, in the meantime, it is time to obsess over Army results. I'm a little less optimistic for Army than AF, though, since I kind of put most of my effort into making the application for the latter kickass.

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maxpayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:52 am

spleenworship wrote:Just got my letter of reject from USAF. It clearly states that I will be reconsidered in December automatically, and I have to affirmatively opt out if I wouldn't like to be reconsidered.

So... If your mail is running slower than mine for whatever reason, now you have even more confirmation of what we've all been hearing.


Same here. Also, we have until December 6th to update our application.
LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:
Ranger85 wrote:
boarder78 wrote:If we are still "Under Completeness Review" 3 weeks later, does that mean it'll take longer to get results?
(Army - my 2nd time applying)



Mine says the same thing. Maybe they just aren't concerned with changing it. My interviewer said the board meets for a week to go through all of the applications. So maybe they will meet this week or first week of DEC.


Mine just changed to "Pending Board Decision." I submitted my application on October 31, so maybe yours will change shortly. I doubt they'll meet this week with the Thanksgiving holiday.


I submitted my Army application within the last few days before the Nov. 1st deadline. My status still says "under completeness review."

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JAG Dog
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Dog » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:43 pm

I can't find/track anyone here who went AF DAP as a practicing attorney. Any idea what I can expect in terms of a time table for commission (assuming--and I know this is a big assumption--I don't have any issues with medical)?

armyhooah
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Re: Military Law

Postby armyhooah » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:53 pm

Hey! Sorry for the late response. Licensed non-Army. Been volunteering with JAG since July, and I absolutely love it. Hope it works out for us! :)

Are you a licensed (non-Army) attorney working with JAG Captains? Or are you already in the Army?[/quote]

boarder78
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Re: Military Law

Postby boarder78 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:11 pm

armyhooah wrote:Hey! Sorry for the late response. Licensed non-Army. Been volunteering with JAG since July, and I absolutely love it. Hope it works out for us! :)

Are you a licensed (non-Army) attorney working with JAG Captains? Or are you already in the Army?
[/quote]

Awesome! How are you able to volunteer with JAG? Can you send me a link to apply for that please? I haven't found anything like that...

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JAG Dog
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Dog » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:38 pm

I'm a licensed attorney who just got selected DAP for Air Force. That is interesting, though. Is it part of a formal program? Have you applied for Army JAG?

Also, I got my packet in the mail today. The letter said that the wait time can vary widely but estimated 3 to 6 months.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:06 pm

JAG Dog wrote:Clearly you're a fan of deployment, and I'm sure it is quite the experience. I'm a family man, though, and I feel like it could be less than ideal in my situation. Did the 6 or 7 you know put in for deployment? I guess what I'm asking is how likely deployment is for someone who doesn't necessarily want it?

Why apply for this job at all, then? Deployments are a major part of this career. There are JAGs currently kicking down doors trying to get a deployment. If you or your family can't accept that, then I don't think it's the right line of work for you. And that's OK. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not for everyone. But you should probably think long and hard about what it means to be in the military.

Also, stating you're a family man and as a result, don't want a deployment, implies those of us who do want to deploy aren't family men. I disagree. My whole family played a major role in my decision to take this career path.

Dani2920
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dani2920 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:50 pm

Esquire wrote:
JAG Dog wrote:Clearly you're a fan of deployment, and I'm sure it is quite the experience. I'm a family man, though, and I feel like it could be less than ideal in my situation. Did the 6 or 7 you know put in for deployment? I guess what I'm asking is how likely deployment is for someone who doesn't necessarily want it?

Why apply for this job at all, then? Deployments are a major part of this career. There are JAGs currently kicking down doors trying to get a deployment. If you or your family can't accept that, then I don't think it's the right line of work for you. And that's OK. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not for everyone. But you should probably think long and hard about what it means to be in the military.

Also, stating you're a family man and as a result, don't want a deployment, implies those of us who do want to deploy aren't family men. I disagree. My whole family played a major role in my decision to take this career path.


I couldn't agree more. As a National Guard member, there is nothing more irritating than individuals who join-up and try their hardest to avoid deployments. The military is full of benefits and opportunities but you have to be willing to put our country first, above your own interests. To try to reap all of those benefits without sacrifice is shameful to say the least.

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JAG Dog
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Dog » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:53 pm

Dani2920 wrote:I couldn't agree more. As a National Guard member, there is nothing more irritating than individuals who join-up and try their hardest to avoid deployments. The military is full of benefits and opportunities but you have to be willing to put our country first, above your own interests. To try to reap all of those benefits without sacrifice is shameful to say the least.


Well said. I assure you I am not trying to get out of any obligation; I was just trying to gauge the likelihood of a particular sacrifice. Understand that my wife (a civilian who married a civilian) is trying to come to grips with giving up the security of the job I have for the benefits of JAG along with the uncertainty of where/how/with (or without) whom she is going to spend at least the next four years, with some small but growing children. She is behind me 100000%, but it would be nice to give her some frame of reference as to the likelihood of deployment. I would like to think that if you knew me, there would be no need for the above comment.

Dani2920
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dani2920 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:04 pm

JAG Dog wrote:
Dani2920 wrote:I couldn't agree more. As a National Guard member, there is nothing more irritating than individuals who join-up and try their hardest to avoid deployments. The military is full of benefits and opportunities but you have to be willing to put our country first, above your own interests. To try to reap all of those benefits without sacrifice is shameful to say the least.


Well said. I assure you I am not trying to get out of any obligation; I was just trying to gauge the likelihood of a particular sacrifice. Understand that my wife (a civilian who married a civilian) is trying to come to grips with giving up the security of the job I have for the benefits of JAG along with the uncertainty of where/how/with (or without) whom she is going to spend at least the next four years, with some small but growing children. She is behind me 100000%, but it would be nice to give her some frame of reference as to the likelihood of deployment. I would like to think that if you knew me, there would be no need for the above comment.


I do not think anyone should join the military without a desire to deploy at least once in their career. My personal opinion. You are certainly entitled to yours.

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JAG Dog
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Dog » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:17 pm

Well that's just silly. You yourself called it a sacrifice, and if you desire to do it, it's not really a sacrifice, is it? I'm sure there are those out there who would say that if you don't have a desire to go out and die for your country, then you shouldn't be in the military. I personally am willing to do all of the above, but that doesn't mean I'm somehow unpatriotic if I don't want it.

Dani2920
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dani2920 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:23 pm

JAG Dog wrote:Well that's just silly. You yourself called it a sacrifice, and if you desire to do it, it's not really a sacrifice, is it? I'm sure there are those out there who would say that if you don't have a desire to go out and die for your country, then you shouldn't be in the military. I personally am willing to do all of the above, but that doesn't mean I'm somehow unpatriotic if I don't want it.


When I volunteered to go to Afghanistan it was a huge sacrifice that I very much desired to make. I'm sorry if you find this silly. And in no way did I ever call you unpatriotic.

HEAT3PEAT
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Re: Military Law

Postby HEAT3PEAT » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:52 pm

Dani2920 wrote:
JAG Dog wrote:Well that's just silly. You yourself called it a sacrifice, and if you desire to do it, it's not really a sacrifice, is it? I'm sure there are those out there who would say that if you don't have a desire to go out and die for your country, then you shouldn't be in the military. I personally am willing to do all of the above, but that doesn't mean I'm somehow unpatriotic if I don't want it.


When I volunteered to go to Afghanistan it was a huge sacrifice that I very much desired to make. I'm sorry if you find this silly. And in no way did I ever call you unpatriotic.



Getting back to your question....the likelihood of deployment is slim for JAG right now. Even if you do go, its not like your going to be sent outside of the wire along with us infantryman. That being said, dont feel like you HAVE to volunteer for a deployment based on what is being said in this thread. You willingness to go will suffice. A National Guardman usually has to volunteer because their unit deployment cycles are longer than active duty units.

Good luck with your JAG application. Keep asking questions, and dont let these guys act like they know everything. AIRBORNE !

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JAG Dog
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Dog » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:04 pm

First of all, I thank you for your service, and what was undoubtedly a sacrifice. My point was not that your sacrifice was silly or that you were silly for making it; just that the nature of service in the military is such that you follow orders no matter what. Whether you like it or not. And just because I don't want to do what my higher ups are telling me to do, doesn't mean I'm less qualified or less willing to do it.

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JAG Dog
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Re: Military Law

Postby JAG Dog » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:11 pm

Thanks, Heat3Peat!




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