Military Law

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:34 pm

AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG One Year College Program (OYCP) as a 2L. PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE ME. I wrote this for a law school student at a local school and I think I deleted all identifying information, but I may have missed stuff. I will be willing to take questions as well on my PM. I apologize for not writing this sooner, maxpayne!


Great job on this. I'm sure this is going to be a huge help for the JAG hopefuls out there. Thanks for taking the time to hammer all this out.

andythefir wrote:I learned the hard way that the paperwork you bring with you to the interview is super important-it's what the SJA will submit to the board. Do every single thing it tells you (bring 2 copies of some forms, provide your entire work history on the back because there's a serious lack of space on the form itself), check and re-check to make sure it's all together. Don't think the paperwork is something you can do on the way or on the morning of your interview-it's not just paperwork, it's a way to see how much attention you have to detail. The acceptance rate may be 5%, but I would guess that >50% of the applications aren't "complete," which means that the applicant never had a shot.

Also, if possible have someone who knows what they're talking about go over it with you. For example, my picture was 1 not against a neutral background and 2 I had my hands in my pockets-both apparently looked upon unfavorably.


This is an excellent point. Attention to detail can be a deal breaker.

Don't underestimate the power of the picture. A great picture may not get you in the door but you can be sure a bad one will keep you out. I've seen some just weird photos in my day from otherwise qualified and talented applicants. Get it professionally done and keep it simple. Well groomed, conservative, court attire, etc.

When I served as the recruiting point of contact at my first assignment, I would review all the application packages before they got to my SJA to try and catch stuff like this early. Most legal offices are going to have someone at the Captain level who is functioning in that role - it would not hurt to ask them if they could give your application a once over.

And yes, hands in pockets are also in the deal breaker category.

erik_1717

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Re: Military Law

Postby erik_1717 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:05 pm

First of all, AFJAG2014, that's a great summary of the important aspects of applying. I think the advice would be very similar for the Navy and Army.

My current issue is the with my Army Active Duty Application. You are only allowed four letters of recommendation. As I wrote on this board a few months ago, I was accepted to Marine JAG, but injured my shoulder (torn labrum) and was medically released in week 5 of 10 week OCS. Due to that happening, I wanted to make sure I had at least one letter from a representative of the Marine Corps to attest to my leadership qualities. I have actually gotten lucky and have a letter written by a Major and a Captain. I've also got a letter from a Captain (JAG) in the Army National Guard that I work with in our County's Prosecutor's Office. The other two letters I have come from my college baseball coach and a law school professor.

That's five letters, all of which I feel are very good. I'm thinking I want to cover all bases so I should take one from the Marine Corps, one from the Army National Guard, one from the coach, and one from the professor. As I just read and as I've realized throughout the process of applying to become a JAG, letters of recommendation are not the most important part of the process, but I think its vital that I have representation from the Marine Corps attesting to my abilities. This is the only thing that is making me wonder if I should make room for both the Marine Corps' letters on the application. Also, if it would look better, I have one from a Judge I clerked for the summer prior. I'm just trying to think of the best combination since the Army really limits us with only four LoRs. Thoughts anyone?

Fed_Atty

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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:02 pm

For the Navy, doing well at an internship can be huge. Most commands will rank their interns, if you can grab that top spot and get a good recommendation from a Captain (O-6), you are likely to be selected.

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:50 am

Well, today might be the day for the AF DAP results! Or at least sometime this week. Please post here ASAP if anyone gets a call or if anyone (Captain Bateman) knows the selectee list has dropped. Thanks!!

Pdk7

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Re: Military Law

Postby Pdk7 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:05 am

Anybody here starting with the Army 193rd JAOBC in January? I'm thinking about starting a FB group. Maybe we can help each other get ready.

eas1423

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Re: Military Law

Postby eas1423 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:12 am

AF JAG attorney friend of mine has been checking on the status for me -- now she says we'll see AF DAP results in mid-Nov. More affected by the shut-down than they let on? Unclear. At least it means that not hearing so far doesn't mean a rejection!

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:22 am

eas1423 wrote:AF JAG attorney friend of mine has been checking on the status for me -- now she says we'll see AF DAP results in mid-Nov. More affected by the shut-down than they let on? Unclear. At least it means that not hearing so far doesn't mean a rejection!


Really? Wow. That is unfortunate. But, all we can do is wait. The only negative thing for me is that this is my second AF board with my first application being reconsidered for this October Board. So, I will have to re-interview and etc before the November 15th deadline, meaning I might be interviewing for the December Board with results from the October Board still pending. Oh well - part of the process. Good luck to all.

womeninblack

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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:13 pm

maxpayne wrote:
eas1423 wrote:AF JAG attorney friend of mine has been checking on the status for me -- now she says we'll see AF DAP results in mid-Nov. More affected by the shut-down than they let on? Unclear. At least it means that not hearing so far doesn't mean a rejection!


From my understanding, no one knows when the board meets or when results are going to be posted. Is that not correct? Does your friend know when the board meets (or met hopefully!)?

Fed_Atty

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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:58 pm

womeninblack wrote:
maxpayne wrote:
eas1423 wrote:AF JAG attorney friend of mine has been checking on the status for me -- now she says we'll see AF DAP results in mid-Nov. More affected by the shut-down than they let on? Unclear. At least it means that not hearing so far doesn't mean a rejection!


From my understanding, no one knows when the board meets or when results are going to be posted. Is that not correct? Does your friend know when the board meets (or met hopefully!)?


I don't know why the AF would keep it secret, we don't keep it secret.

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spleenworship

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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:16 pm

Can you actually apply for the December board without having October results? And if so, how?

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Re: Military Law

Postby ganja » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:29 pm

AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG


This is a very informative post. A very good friend of mine, who I grew up with as brothers is very committed to becoming a JAG so I will ask this question on his behalf if you guys don't mind: He is looking to get into the Graduate Law Program as a 1L next year as he took a year off to do a few internships. He is currently unofficially interning at an air force base legal office and looks to have at least 5 months of volunteering and around 500 hours of unofficially interning on his resume when he finishes. He interned under the local mayor in our town for 7 months and got a very solid letter of recommendation from her so he does have some sort of public interest background. He also graduated top 10% with honors in poli sci from a small public college, in pretty good physical shape and was captain of most of our sports teams growing up. With 2 LORs from undergraduate professors, 1 LOR from our mayor, 1 LOR from a former employer and 1 LOR from one of the JAGs he works with, do you guys think he has a good shot at getting in with the GLP given his credentials above? I'll definitely tell him about this thread ASAP as I'm sure he'll get a lot of info from it. Thanks for any insight you guys may have!

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:43 pm

Just talked with a past AF SJA - Results will be out next week. The October DAP Board is not meeting until tomorrow and the General will confirm the selectees later this week. Expect results next week.

I am going to go ahead and contact a local SJA to set up an interview and proceed forward with the December Board. If I don't get selected, then I will have momentum going into the Dec Board. If so, great! I will just cancel my interview and go from there.

womeninblack

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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:51 pm

spleenworship wrote:Can you actually apply for the December board without having October results? And if so, how?


I'm pretty sure you'd just interview before the November 15th deadline. If you find out you were selected in the October board, call the SJA and tell him or her that you were selected in the October board. They usually don't send your application packet to JAX as soon as you interview anyway, so likely they will just toss the new application packet if that happens. Maybe just mention at the interview that you are still waiting on October results, but you wanted to be prepared just in case you weren't selected in that board.

If October is your first board, you don't have to worry about reapplying (unless your interview didn't go so well the first time). You can just tell JAX that you wish to submit the same application for reconsideration. I believe they have the instructions for how to do that in the non-select letter.

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spleenworship

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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:14 pm

maxpayne wrote:Just talked with a past AF SJA - Results will be out next week. The October DAP Board is not meeting until tomorrow and the General will confirm the selectees later this week. Expect results next week.

I am going to go ahead and contact a local SJA to set up an interview and proceed forward with the December Board. If I don't get selected, then I will have momentum going into the Dec Board. If so, great! I will just cancel my interview and go from there.



Next week can't come soon enough, lol!

ganja

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Re: Military Law

Postby ganja » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:16 pm

ganja wrote:
AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG


This is a very informative post. A very good friend of mine, who I grew up with as brothers is very committed to becoming a JAG so I will ask this question on his behalf if you guys don't mind: He is looking to get into the Graduate Law Program as a 1L next year as he took a year off to do a few internships. He is currently unofficially interning at an air force base legal office and looks to have at least 5 months of volunteering and around 500 hours of unofficially interning on his resume when he finishes. He interned under the local mayor in our town for 7 months and got a very solid letter of recommendation from her so he does have some sort of public interest background. He also graduated top 10% with honors in poli sci from a small public college, in pretty good physical shape and was captain of most of our sports teams growing up. With 2 LORs from undergraduate professors, 1 LOR from our mayor, 1 LOR from a former employer and 1 LOR from one of the JAGs he works with, do you guys think he has a good shot at getting in with the GLP given his credentials above? I'll definitely tell him about this thread ASAP as I'm sure he'll get a lot of info from it. Thanks for any insight you guys may have!

He also plans to volunteer at a base as a 1L though it would only be one or two days a week. I tried telling him that it may be too much to handle but he really wants to do it. You guys think it'll be too much to do especially during 1L?

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Esquire

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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:03 pm

Kind of old news policy wise but action wise, it's happening presently:

The Army will use a full menu of involuntary separation programs, beginning immediately, to reach an end strength of 490,000 soldiers by the end of fiscal 2015, according to Army personnel chief Lt. Gen. Howard B. Bromberg. The service had planned to reach 490,000 by the end of 2017, but the accelerated strategy is designed to help the service prepare for any additional manpower cuts generated by sequestration and other budgetary matters. The new plan requires the Army to reduce the active force by nearly 42,000 soldiers by Sept. 30, 2015.
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20131021/NEWS/310210008/High-speed-drawdown-Army-ramps-up-force-outs

I think JAs should be OK because the branch did not expand like the other ones did. But at the same time, there are a bunch of O3s, O4s JAs who stayed in because of the economy. Plus, they likely took a bonus to commit a few more years. I suspect the Army won't be kicking those guys out. The easiest solution is to extend fewer offers.

womeninblack

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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:39 pm

ganja wrote:
ganja wrote:
AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG


This is a very informative post. A very good friend of mine, who I grew up with as brothers is very committed to becoming a JAG so I will ask this question on his behalf if you guys don't mind: He is looking to get into the Graduate Law Program as a 1L next year as he took a year off to do a few internships. He is currently unofficially interning at an air force base legal office and looks to have at least 5 months of volunteering and around 500 hours of unofficially interning on his resume when he finishes. He interned under the local mayor in our town for 7 months and got a very solid letter of recommendation from her so he does have some sort of public interest background. He also graduated top 10% with honors in poli sci from a small public college, in pretty good physical shape and was captain of most of our sports teams growing up. With 2 LORs from undergraduate professors, 1 LOR from our mayor, 1 LOR from a former employer and 1 LOR from one of the JAGs he works with, do you guys think he has a good shot at getting in with the GLP given his credentials above? I'll definitely tell him about this thread ASAP as I'm sure he'll get a lot of info from it. Thanks for any insight you guys may have!

He also plans to volunteer at a base as a 1L though it would only be one or two days a week. I tried telling him that it may be too much to handle but he really wants to do it. You guys think it'll be too much to do especially during 1L?


At my school, they encourage students not to work during 1L year, unless they are part-time students. 1L is hard enough without adding an internship on top of it. It depends on the person, but I would recommend not doing the internship until after 1L year.

ganja

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Re: Military Law

Postby ganja » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:51 pm

womeninblack wrote:
ganja wrote:
ganja wrote:
AFJAG2014 wrote:TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG


This is a very informative post. A very good friend of mine, who I grew up with as brothers is very committed to becoming a JAG so I will ask this question on his behalf if you guys don't mind: He is looking to get into the Graduate Law Program as a 1L next year as he took a year off to do a few internships. He is currently unofficially interning at an air force base legal office and looks to have at least 5 months of volunteering and around 500 hours of unofficially interning on his resume when he finishes. He interned under the local mayor in our town for 7 months and got a very solid letter of recommendation from her so he does have some sort of public interest background. He also graduated top 10% with honors in poli sci from a small public college, in pretty good physical shape and was captain of most of our sports teams growing up. With 2 LORs from undergraduate professors, 1 LOR from our mayor, 1 LOR from a former employer and 1 LOR from one of the JAGs he works with, do you guys think he has a good shot at getting in with the GLP given his credentials above? I'll definitely tell him about this thread ASAP as I'm sure he'll get a lot of info from it. Thanks for any insight you guys may have!

He also plans to volunteer at a base as a 1L though it would only be one or two days a week. I tried telling him that it may be too much to handle but he really wants to do it. You guys think it'll be too much to do especially during 1L?


At my school, they encourage students not to work during 1L year, unless they are part-time students. 1L is hard enough without adding an internship on top of it. It depends on the person, but I would recommend not doing the internship until after 1L year.

Yea that's what I tried telling him. But do you think he has a shot at getting into the GLP or getting the official internship the summer after 1L?

womeninblack

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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:18 pm

Yea that's what I tried telling him. But do you think he has a shot at getting into the GLP or getting the official internship the summer after 1L?[/quote]

Honestly, I don't think anyone can give you a good answer for that one. The board looks at the whole person, so only they can tell you if he has a good shot. From what I can see, he has as good a shot as anyone else, so he should apply.

WanderingPondering

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Re: Military Law

Postby WanderingPondering » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:53 am

Hey guys, USMC OCS applicant checking in here. Just got the application squared away this week. waiting to go to see a doctor next week.

As of now, they aren't taking 1Ls on the December board, but will be taking them in February. I hear there is a chance this changes, but don't know anything further.

Good luck to everyone applying!

ganja

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Re: Military Law

Postby ganja » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:47 pm

womeninblack wrote:Yea that's what I tried telling him. But do you think he has a shot at getting into the GLP or getting the official internship the summer after 1L?


Hey so a quick update on my "brother's" status. Looks like he's going to only be able to unofficially intern for about 8-10 weeks at base legal which is the length of the official internship if I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong). I read on this thread that someone did 9 months worth of unofficially interning so I'm wondering if it will hurt him if he's only doing it for approximately 2 months which is obviously a much shorter time. Granted, he has yet to start law school but are the boards more likely to look at him unfavorably for interning for a shorter amount of time especially since it's an unofficial internship ?

Duke31

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Re: Military Law

Postby Duke31 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:15 am

Any Army Reserve applicants see a change to their online status? Mine still says "Under Completeness Review." Just wondering if I should be concerned at this point.

mlittle5

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Re: Military Law

Postby mlittle5 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:20 pm

Duke31 wrote:Any Army Reserve applicants see a change to their online status? Mine still says "Under Completeness Review." Just wondering if I should be concerned at this point.


Mine still says the same thing. I haven't received any emails from JARO saying I am missing anything, so I assume it's just processing delays.

brando4545

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Re: Military Law

Postby brando4545 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:58 pm

When was the application deadline for Reserve? I'm an AD applicant, and my FSO made it clear to not expect the status to change for up to 3 weeks after the application deadline.

mlittle5

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Re: Military Law

Postby mlittle5 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:02 pm

brando4545 wrote:When was the application deadline for Reserve? I'm an AD applicant, and my FSO made it clear to not expect the status to change for up to 3 weeks after the application deadline.


September 26, IIRC



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