Military Law

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:01 pm

shir9650 wrote:Air Force select here. I am looking to adjust my assignment preference sheet, can anyone offer advice on quality first assignment bases with substantial MJ opportunities? I am open to any location, just hoping to get good trial experience and eventually become an ADC. Thank you in advance.


No clue here. But...... (here comes nosy "want to be in your shoes" questions)

Which board were you selected for AF JAG? When do you start? Mind sharing any other details?

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CoolJustice13

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Re: Military Law

Postby CoolJustice13 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:56 am

shir9650 wrote:Air Force select here. I am looking to adjust my assignment preference sheet, can anyone offer advice on quality first assignment bases with substantial MJ opportunities? I am open to any location, just hoping to get good trial experience and eventually become an ADC. Thank you in advance.



Hello, here's a link to the Air Force Docket. Maybe this could help you with your choices.

http://www.afjag.af.mil/docket/index.asp

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:19 am

shir9650 wrote:Air Force select here. I am looking to adjust my assignment preference sheet, can anyone offer advice on quality first assignment bases with substantial MJ opportunities? I am open to any location, just hoping to get good trial experience and eventually become an ADC. Thank you in advance.


I'm 95% certain I have posted on this topic somewhere. Might be worth trying to find it.

You will want bases with active operational missions - active flight lines or missiles. These bases will fall under Air Combat Command, Air Mobility Command, AF Global Strike Command, and AF Special Operations Command. A quick bit of Wiki or other research will let you learn about what each base does and what MAJCOM they fall under.

You will want to avoid AF Material Command (procurement, R&D, acquisitions missions). AF Training & Education command can be a mixed bag - bases like Lackland, Keesler, & Sheppard with primarily an enlisted training mission are usually busy but officer training locations are usually slow (Maxwell). That's no swipe at the enlisted corps - just my experience; most folks getting into the knuckle headed trouble that make up most of our Special Courts-Martial are in that E-1 to E-4 range.

If I had to pick some usually strong justice bases (and not bothering to research it against the current MJ stats), in no particular order:
Ramstein AB, Germany
Lackland AFB, TX
Nellis AFB, NV
Travis AFB, CA
Osan AB, ROK (Korea is usually not an option for a first assignment)
Kadena AB, Japan
Yokota AB, Japan
Keesler AFB, MS
Charleston AFB, SC
Hurlburt Field, FL
Randolph AFB, TX

MJ always seems to run in feast or famine cycles. You will go months without a court and then somehow have six courts being tried in four weeks. I just finished with a court at Osan AB - they have been absolutely slammed this year where as last year, they only had something like five courts. I recall a recent email that stated Malmstrom AFB, MT was leading the AF in courts lately.

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bouakedojo

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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:10 am

I actually have the stats for CM activity for the first half of 2012 and here are the top 10:

1) Lackland
2) Ramstein
3) Nellis
4) Davis-Monthan
5) Eglin
6) Dyess
7) Malmstrom
8) Keesler
9) Hickam
10) Hurlburt

Patrick Bateman wrote: You will want bases with active operational missions - active flight lines or missiles. These bases will fall under Air Combat Command, Air Mobility Command, AF Global Strike Command, and AF Special Operations Command.


I would also emphasize again what Patrick Bateman said here. This is the same advice I received from an ADC when I asked him about choosing bases with a lot of MJ work.

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Re: Military Law

Postby andythefir » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:29 am

shir9650 wrote:Air Force select here. I am looking to adjust my assignment preference sheet, can anyone offer advice on quality first assignment bases with substantial MJ opportunities? I am open to any location, just hoping to get good trial experience and eventually become an ADC. Thank you in advance.


Were you picked up by the October 13 board?

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:32 am

bouakedojo wrote:I actually have the stats for CM activity for the first half of 2012 and here are the top 10:

1) Lackland
2) Ramstein
3) Nellis
4) Davis-Monthan
5) Eglin
6) Dyess
7) Malmstrom
8) Keesler
9) Hickam
10) Hurlburt

Patrick Bateman wrote: You will want bases with active operational missions - active flight lines or missiles. These bases will fall under Air Combat Command, Air Mobility Command, AF Global Strike Command, and AF Special Operations Command.


I would also emphasize again what Patrick Bateman said here. This is the same advice I received from an ADC when I asked him about choosing bases with a lot of MJ work.


Thanks for getting this together. I'm an idiot for forgetting D-M. I'm surprised at Dyess and Eglin.

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Re: Military Law

Postby shir9650 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:57 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
shir9650 wrote:Air Force select here. I am looking to adjust my assignment preference sheet, can anyone offer advice on quality first assignment bases with substantial MJ opportunities? I am open to any location, just hoping to get good trial experience and eventually become an ADC. Thank you in advance.


I'm 95% certain I have posted on this topic somewhere. Might be worth trying to find it.


Thank you for the detailed information. I'll look back through the thread again to see if I can locate a previous post on the topic.

bouakedojo wrote:I actually have the stats for CM activity for the first half of 2012 and here are the top 10:

1) Lackland
2) Ramstein
3) Nellis
4) Davis-Monthan
5) Eglin
6) Dyess
7) Malmstrom
8) Keesler
9) Hickam
10) Hurlburt



Awesome, thank you for the info.

andythefir wrote:
Were you picked up by the October 13 board?


I was picked up off the April board, but am currently doing a clerkship so I won't go to COT for a bit.

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CoolJustice13

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Re: Military Law

Postby CoolJustice13 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:16 pm

Did you have to get medically cleared right after getting selected or did you have to wait until you passed the bar?

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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:18 pm

CoolJustice13 wrote:Did you have to get medically cleared right after getting selected or did you have to wait until you passed the bar?


I'm pretty sure you go through the MEPS process soon after getting selected even if you are still in school and haven't passed the bar yet.

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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:11 pm

womeninblack wrote:
CoolJustice13 wrote:Did you have to get medically cleared right after getting selected or did you have to wait until you passed the bar?


I'm pretty sure you go through the MEPS process soon after getting selected even if you are still in school and haven't passed the bar yet.



This is basically my understanding as well.

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:44 pm

Yes, with the Air Force, after getting your acceptance call, you get a package in the mail about a week later explaining the MEPS process and that you have 30 days to get medically cleared. The odds of you actually going to MEPS within 30 days are pretty low, so don't stress out about that part - just make sure you get the process started ASAP. If you have not passed the bar yet, they'll wait on that after you're done with MEPS.

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:01 am

spleenworship wrote:
maxpayne wrote:Completed my Army FSO interview yesterday down at Fort Hood in Texas and now trying to round my letters of recommendation. Hope to submit everyting next week. Then it's time to sit and wait.

Currently still waiting on AF Oct DAP results to be released as well.


I'm guessing two weeks for those AF results. Fingers crossed here.


Maybe this time next week, someone on here will be getting a call from their SJA. Countdown continues....

Just to get a tally, how many people on here are waiting to hear from the AF Oct. DAP Board?

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Re: Military Law

Postby CoolJustice13 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:32 am

maxpayne wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
maxpayne wrote:Completed my Army FSO interview yesterday down at Fort Hood in Texas and now trying to round my letters of recommendation. Hope to submit everyting next week. Then it's time to sit and wait.

Currently still waiting on AF Oct DAP results to be released as well.


I'm guessing two weeks for those AF results. Fingers crossed here.


Maybe this time next week, someone on here will be getting a call from their SJA. Countdown continues....

Just to get a tally, how many people on here are waiting to hear from the AF Oct. DAP Board?


I am "patiently" waiting to hear something from the AF Oct. DAP Board. :D

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:43 am

CoolJustice13 wrote:
maxpayne wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
maxpayne wrote:Completed my Army FSO interview yesterday down at Fort Hood in Texas and now trying to round my letters of recommendation. Hope to submit everyting next week. Then it's time to sit and wait.

Currently still waiting on AF Oct DAP results to be released as well.


I'm guessing two weeks for those AF results. Fingers crossed here.


Maybe this time next week, someone on here will be getting a call from their SJA. Countdown continues....

Just to get a tally, how many people on here are waiting to hear from the AF Oct. DAP Board?


I am "patiently" waiting to hear something from the AF Oct. DAP Board. :D


You mentioned earlier that you served for 8 years in the AF. Did you stop your service to complete law school?

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CoolJustice13

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Re: Military Law

Postby CoolJustice13 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:50 am

I am "patiently" waiting to hear something from the AF Oct. DAP Board. :D[/quote]

You mentioned earlier that you served for 8 years in the AF. Did you stop your service to complete law school?[/quote]

Yes Sir, I separated right before getting accepted into law school.

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:53 am

CoolJustice13 wrote:I am "patiently" waiting to hear something from the AF Oct. DAP Board. :D


You mentioned earlier that you served for 8 years in the AF. Did you stop your service to complete law school?[/quote]

Yes Sir, I separated right before getting accepted into law school.[/quote]

Sweet. Did you consider the FLEP program?

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CoolJustice13

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Re: Military Law

Postby CoolJustice13 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:00 pm

Yes, I interviewed with the ROTC Commander but the ROTC courses conflicted with my 2L schedule and the ROTC detachment was at another University so I decided not to apply and chance it with DAP.

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:11 pm

Well, you have as good or way better chance as anyone on this board with your past military experience. Good luck! And, post ASAP if you hear anything from your SJA.

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Re: Military Law

Postby womeninblack » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:21 pm

[quote="maxpayne

Just to get a tally, how many people on here are waiting to hear from the AF Oct. DAP Board?[/quote]

I am also waiting for the results from the Oct. board to roll in. I'm a first-time applicant so not super high expectations of getting selected this time around, but still crossing my fingers!

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.

Postby Another » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:22 pm

.
Last edited by Another on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bouakedojo

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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:44 pm

hopkins23 wrote:If I worked a few years first, and then joined JAG, would I get paid more than a 3L who went straight to JAG from law school? I'm thinking of doing private practice a few years first before doing JAG.


No, there'd be no bump in pay. You'd still start out at whatever the service pays.

However, a lot of people overlook both the allowances and the tax advantage of serving in the military. Keep that in mind when you do your calculations.

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CoolJustice13

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Re: Military Law

Postby CoolJustice13 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 pm

hopkins23 wrote:If I worked a few years first, and then joined JAG, would I get paid more than a 3L who went straight to JAG from law school? I'm thinking of doing private practice a few years first before doing JAG.


No, you would still get paid as an O-2 with less than 2 years of service. They would only pay you according to your military time.
http://www.airforce.com/jag/benefits/em ... t_benefits

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maxpayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby maxpayne » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:07 pm

AFJAG2014 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Update: USCG called back... And the Chief who told me MEPS after board was wrong. It is the way it was described to us before - MEPS first, interview and board afterwards.


I have applications out to three other services. I'm halfway tempted, since I know I need a waiver, to ask the CG to defer my application for the January board so as to give the other services a chance to finish first. But even that doesn't seem like it would be enough time, and a possible DQ- waiver not recommended would greet any service that accepted me even then. I have heard again and again that waivers are more likely for candidates they really want, and the USCG wouldn't have gotten to know me at all when I'd be asking for one. Anybody got any advice on this? Should I defer my app to the USCG? Drop it entirely? Go now and hope for the best? Am I misinformed on the waiver process or missing any vital facts?


Long-time poster. I have created this username with permission for the purpose of anonymity. I will post my experience soon of getting selected for the AF JAG program.

As far as waiting for MEPS results, military medical decisions are a black box. I have two conditions that require a waiver. I went to get my DODMERB physical and disclosed my conditions, my surgery, and the over-the-counter medicine I take daily. To my surprise, they didn't even make me get one waiver. I passed with no problems. I know others who have had minor conditions that have gotten the run-around, though. So I wouldn't base any decisions on a medical condition, if I were you, spleenworship. Just my two cents.


Any chance you are going to post your experience of getting selected by the AF JAG?

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Re: Military Law

Postby AFJAG2014 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:23 pm

TLS Members. I wanted to highlight my experience in getting selected for the Air Force JAG One Year College Program (OYCP) as a 2L. PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE ME. I wrote this for a law school student at a local school and I think I deleted all identifying information, but I may have missed stuff. I will be willing to take questions as well on my PM. I apologize for not writing this sooner, maxpayne!

APPLICATION PROCESS:

I was lucky enough to have sat in on a briefing with a Lieutenant Colonel who was talking about the recruiting process and how boards select candidates. He/she was on a board once and discussed how it works. Most of my knowledge comes from him/her, along with some other websites. If you ever have some time, I’d encourage you to read the Top Law Schools thread below. Captain Bateman and others have been incredibly helpful. I honestly don't think I could have gotten into AF JAG (my first choice of career) without their excellent advice. It is very informative, although it’s super long as it is five years of comments. I credit it with helping me craft the best package I could to apply.

Competitiveness: I begin with a section on competitiveness because I think it highlights the necessity of doing everything you possibly can to have the best package possible. For the OYCP program, only four were selected in the whole country in February, 2013. Last year, they selected two. The year before that, they selected seven. For Direct Appointment, the percentages are hovering around 5% selection rate. It is incredibly competitive right now and I am only underlining this point because I believe that every single aspect of your application is important. You need to work towards crafting the most compelling file you can to be selected. I am incredibly lucky to be selected. I have no doubt about that.

Timeline to apply: I started the application process in October of my 2L year. I tried to set up interviews with the detachment and with the SJA at the local base. You want to try to schedule those before the Christmas break if you can. Also, be sure to remember to give your LOR-writers plenty of time to write them. The board then meets in February and you hear back late Feb/early March.

Totality of Circumstances
: In the selection process, there is not one dispositive category they look at. Rather, they look at all of the factors together for a “whole-picture” approach. If your package is not as strong in one area, a stronger part of another section of your package may compensate for it. Having said that, they do weight things more heavily than others.

SJA Interview: The most important part of the process is the Staff Judge Advocate interview. You would go to your local base and interview with the SJA and also one of the Captains in the office. During that time, he/she evaluates you for a write-up he/she sends in with your package. He/she’s going to ask you about leadership, litigation experience, your resume, your motivation for applying. He/she’s going to ask you about your goals, about how you define success. And then he/she’s going to write several paragraphs about you. He/she must also include a recommendation: either to recommend to the board that they select you or not select you. This is incredibly important to getting a spot, and you want to make sure you do everything you can to shine in the interview. Of course, there’s always the admonition to be “clean cut, conservatively dressed, etc.”

Law school grades: The second most important aspect is your law school grades. They look at them somewhat intensely. You don’t have to be law review, but you do need to get good grades to a certain extent. I was not law review. I was actually top 25%, with Dean’s Lists every semester, so I had good grades, but not great grades as in top 10%.

Air Force Internships
: Boards look highly on Air Force internships, official and unofficial, because it shows your interest in joining them. Additionally, you may be able to get a letter of rec from a current JAG who could vouch for you. Make sure you apply for the official internships. Also, you may try to see about setting up something informal over at your local base and commute, if that’s something you’d be able to do. I was able to work in the legal office there and commute several days a week. I believe that that helped me immensely in my application process.

Leadership experience/titles: This is very important because as an AF JAG, you’re going to be an officer in the military. You will be a leader. Just because someone gets good grades in law school doesn’t mean they are leadership material. The Lt Colonel told me that they had a guy with good grades from Harvard but they rejected him because he wasn’t right for the AF, specifically because he didn’t seem to have any leadership ability. Do whatever you can to join clubs and run for positions and get those titles on your resume. I was president/vice-president/co-founder, etc. of several different groups.

Also, you might consider starting up a group at your local law school? Maybe grab some people who are interested and start a military law society? We did that at my school last year. Me and two other people started a Military Law Society and started promoting JAG work at the school. Just a thought.

Public service experience
: Volunteer as much as you can for public causes. Help with legal aid work. Donate time to local charities, etc. They also like it if you have public-service type stuff in your background. I’m an old guy and didn’t come straight through from undergrad. Before I came to law school, I lived for several years in a foreign country, doing missionary work and I think that helped me in my application.

Letters of Rec: These don’t matter a whole lot, but they do like to see that you’ve maxed out the number. So try to get five letters of rec if you can.
Litigation/courtroom experience: They love moot court/trial team experience. If you can join one, that really helps your application, because you’re going to be in court a lot as a JAG. Also, take practical courses like trial advocacy and advanced trial advocacy. Also, make sure to take criminal law classes since you will prosecute people for crimes as a JAG.

Undergrad grades
: They look at them, but I don’t think they are that important. They’re definitely at the bottom of the list. My undergrad grades were bad because I worked full-time through school, so I had a very-low GPA, in the very low 3s.

Prior military experience is a bump of course. Frequent drug use, being in trouble with the law, school suspensions, etc. would hurt.

ONCE SELECTED:


Timeline- You will be notified in late February/early March from the SJA you interviewed with. Then it takes a few weeks for the detachment to officially receive word that you have been selected from the AF ROTC HQ. You will then begin preparing to go to a four-week field training in Alabama with the other cadets during the summer. There is a ton of stuff to learn/memorize/understand and little time to do it. Let me just be honest. The month of finals was incredibly stressful not only working on outlining/finals, but also trying to learn so much to do well at field training. It was difficult, but in the end, I knew it would worth it.

The guys at my detachment are incredible, though. They go out of their way to help you prepare and get ready for field training. I’m just amazed at how kind they’ve been to me. Several of them met with me, one-on-one, and have gone through things with me to prepare for this summer. I wrote on my facebook profile that they are the best and the brightest of America and I stand by that statement.

After field training, you return and are a cadet at the detachment for one year. I go in on Wednesday afternoons/evenings for a leadership class. I will also have to take another class self-study. I will be expected to exercise three times a week, but the detachment commander, said I can keep a log. I don’t have to come in and exercise with the whole group at the detachment. So the time commitment during school is not too intense.

The time commitment preparing for field training while doing finals is, however. I can't emphasize this enough. If you always have to be on the sweet side of the curve, then it will be the hardest thing you've ever faced going to AF ROTC Field Training with little time to prepare. I hated it with a passion, but I'm looking the at long view, the big picture.

Following graduation, I will be commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant, Inactive status. I will pass the bar and then be commissioned as a 1st Lieutenant. After 6 months, I’ll be promoted to Captain.

Pay: At field training, I was paid about $800 for the four weeks I’m there. On the recruiting website, it says you will be paid at an E-5 level (much more), but apparently, that is not current. When I return for field training, I will be getting a monthly stipend, which would be around $400 a month. And then when you pass the bar, you will be paid normal 1st Lieutenant pay.

Resources to look at:
1) Facebook JAG Recruiting Page: https://www.facebook.com/USAFJAG?fref=ts
2) Top Law Schools military law webpage: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31543
3) JAG Website: --LinkRemoved--
Last edited by AFJAG2014 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Military Law

Postby andythefir » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:51 pm

I learned the hard way that the paperwork you bring with you to the interview is super important-it's what the SJA will submit to the board. Do every single thing it tells you (bring 2 copies of some forms, provide your entire work history on the back because there's a serious lack of space on the form itself), check and re-check to make sure it's all together. Don't think the paperwork is something you can do on the way or on the morning of your interview-it's not just paperwork, it's a way to see how much attention you have to detail. The acceptance rate may be 5%, but I would guess that >50% of the applications aren't "complete," which means that the applicant never had a shot.

Also, if possible have someone who knows what they're talking about go over it with you. For example, my picture was 1 not against a neutral background and 2 I had my hands in my pockets-both apparently looked upon unfavorably.



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