Military Law Forum

[Young Marino]

Just got shot down by USCG. According to my recruiter (you go through enlisted recruiters for CG) the Coast Guard will not be applying for any waivers at this time. They'll call back if that changes.

Sorry to hear that Spleen. Are you going to try any of the other branches?

[Fed_Atty]

CG takes so few - super difficult to get in and they have one of the least user friendly applications. They do some really cool stuff and even bounce between legal and non legal jobs. CG Article 32 Officer that I had was coming off an XO tour of a ship.

[MSUlaw49]

I got an interview with only the army JAG. I know very little about it, is it worth it to drive 3 hours for the interview?

[LSATmakesMeNeurotic]

I got an interview with only the army JAG. I know very little about it, is it worth it to drive 3 hours for the interview?

The interview is only the first step in a process. You need it to submit your application packet, but is that really the closest FSO to your area? Seems a bit far.

[spleenworship]

Just got shot down by USCG. According to my recruiter (you go through enlisted recruiters for CG) the Coast Guard will not be applying for any waivers at this time. They'll call back if that changes.

Sorry to hear that Spleen. Are you going to try any of the other branches?

Yes. Army and Navy.


In an interesting update, just got a call from a very businesslike CPO who said they would appy for a waiver for me. Game back on!

[spleenworship]

CG takes so few - super difficult to get in and they have one of the least user friendly applications. They do some really cool stuff and even bounce between legal and non legal jobs. CG Article 32 Officer that I had was coming off an XO tour of a ship.

Yeah. Start at O-3 and after your first 4 years you can apply for billets on cutters and air stations and such doing logistics or XO or all kinds of cool jobs for a few years at a time. I realize I only have like a 3% chance of selection... But, wow would it be cool if I was selected.

[Omerta]

Is a federal clerkship a big plus for JAG applications?

[Young Marino]

Is a federal clerkship a big plus for JAG applications?

It seems that the consensus is any position law related in the public sector will always give you a leg up over someone coming from the private sector. However, be advised that selection rates for JAG are between 4%-7% depending on the branch you're looking at.

[Omerta]

Is a federal clerkship a big plus for JAG applications?

It seems that the consensus is any position law related in the public sector will always give you a leg up over someone coming from the private sector. However, be advised that selection rates for JAG are between 4%-7% depending on the branch you're looking at.

Yeah, I read the last 20 pages or so before posting and knew that rates were low.

My biggest issue is probably leadership demonstration. I've done a bunch of community service and ran/coached several organizations, but it's probably not up to snuff compared to other applicants. On the upside, I'm in good physical shape -- albeit more of a weightlifter than a runner, I wouldn't have any background check issues, and I have solid grades from a solid school.

Unrelated, good luck to everyone still waiting to hear back!

[howell]

A federal clerkship is likely a positive thing, but one problem is that it seems like not a lot of people going the fed clerk route would apply for JAG. ITE, I guess anything's possible, though. A practical reason for this is timing - a clerkship has a certain expiration date, and JAG has an uncertain intake timeline, so you would almost be forced to wait until the end of the clerkship and then apply to give enough of a buffer. Deferrals might be an option, but I highly doubt it.

Of my 60+ JASOC classmates, only a handful had federal clerkship experience, and I believe they were all Reserve/Guard, not Active Duty, and currently federal prosecutors. The JAG intake pipeline might select for people that don't do federal clerkships, so that could skew the numbers. Having worked in the JAG Corps for the limited time that I have, I wouldn't weigh it very heavily in favor of a candidate, at least beyond what a federal clerk's resume would likely already indicate (good grades). It doesn't tell me much about one's ability to try a case or be a good officer.

[Pdk7]

For those of you starting Army Active Duty in 2014,

Just out of curiosity, what are you doing between now the time you start? Particularly any of you who just graduated and are taking the bar and then leaving in January. I've been looking but not that many people seem to be keen on taking on a baby attorney who is only sticking around for 5 or 6 months.

[votewarrior]

For those of you starting Army Active Duty in 2014,

Just out of curiosity, what are you doing between now the time you start? Particularly any of you who just graduated and are taking the bar and then leaving in January. I've been looking but not that many people seem to be keen on taking on a baby attorney who is only sticking around for 5 or 6 months.

I've had the same impression. I talked to my FSO, and she had said not to worry about looking for legal employment, as long as you are staying out of trouble and not getting hurt the Army doesn' really care what you do in between the bar and reporting.

My current hope/ plan is doing a little traveling and then working part time at a restaurant and some volunteer hours at a local legal aid clinic so I don't feel like I totally wasting the law degree.

[Young Marino]

For those in USAF when would I take the Air Force Officer Qualifying Exam? Would it make my application for GLP and OYCP more attractive if I take it as a civilian if that's even possible? Or do I have to wait until they tell me I'm in to take it?

Update on legal office volunteering: For those that care to monitor my situation in trying to secure a volunteer opportunity with a JAG legal office, the SJA on the homestead base contacted me. It seems as all hope is not lost. In her email, she stated "The base doesn't have a formal volunteer program which makes it difficult to accommodate. I am exploring different avenues to get you in but be advised that it may take a few months for me to start a program."

I wanted to know what these different "avenues" would be and if there is a decent shot I get put through if anybody has any idea.

[Fed_Atty]

Interesting read here. This is a compilation from Jan 2013 to Jun 2013 of all the Court Martials the Navy conducted. Note that when the accused pleads guilty there is likely a pre-trial agreement (PTA) in place that limits the sentence the convening authority will approve. The judge has no idea what the sentence limitation is prior to adjudging sentence. Consequently, one could be adjudged 90 days confinement but actually serve no confinement if the PTA specifies disapproval of all confinement.

http://www.navy.mil/docs/MasterCourtMar ... 062013.pdf

[Rotor]

Interesting read here. This is a compilation from Jan 2013 to Jun 2013 of all the Court Martials the Navy conducted. Note that when the accused pleads guilty there is likely a pre-trial agreement (PTA) in place that limits the sentence the convening authority will approve. The judge has no idea what the sentence limitation is prior to adjudging sentence. Consequently, one could be adjudged 90 days confinement but actually serve no confinement if the PTA specifies disapproval of all confinement.

http://www.navy.mil/docs/MasterCourtMar ... 062013.pdf

Some of these are screaming for Paul Harvey to do a "rest of the story". Like the E-6 tried for attempted arson, making false official statements, swearing false oaths, hoax designed to cause panic, communicating a threat, and wearing unauthorized awards and qualifications and he gets the Big Chicken Dinner (BCD) for only some of the false statements and wearing unauthorized awards.

[Fed_Atty]

Interesting read here. This is a compilation from Jan 2013 to Jun 2013 of all the Court Martials the Navy conducted. Note that when the accused pleads guilty there is likely a pre-trial agreement (PTA) in place that limits the sentence the convening authority will approve. The judge has no idea what the sentence limitation is prior to adjudging sentence. Consequently, one could be adjudged 90 days confinement but actually serve no confinement if the PTA specifies disapproval of all confinement.

http://www.navy.mil/docs/MasterCourtMar ... 062013.pdf

Some of these are screaming for Paul Harvey to do a "rest of the story". Like the E-6 tried for attempted arson, making false official statements, swearing false oaths, hoax designed to cause panic, communicating a threat, and wearing unauthorized awards and qualifications and he gets the Big Chicken Dinner (BCD) for only some of the false statements and wearing unauthorized awards.

.

[JuneLSATFail]

T-30, top 1/3, Secondary Journal. Some leadership positions, but nothing outstanding (President of a few clubs in UG). Very good physical shape. Can do 20+ pull ups, 100 situps in two minutes, and 3 miles in about 19:30 (6:30 minute/per mile pace). Chances for JAG?

[chicubs88]

T-30, top 1/3, Secondary Journal. Some leadership positions, but nothing outstanding (President of a few clubs in UG). Very good physical shape. Can do 20+ pull ups, 100 situps in two minutes, and 3 miles in about 19:30 (6:30 minute/per mile pace). Chances for JAG?

You're basically a carbon copy of me when I got selected for USMC JAG in the spring of 2012. You should be very competitive, but with the cut backs and down economy who knows how many spots will be available and who you will be up against. I know that for the Marines you get selected based upon your region, with each region having a certain number of available contracts. Your numbers make you a good candidate, but all it takes is a few superstars in your region to decide on Marine JAG and your chances take a big hit. Also, having a clean criminal/disciplinary record is a big help, and there is the matter of whether or not you will need any medical waivers.

[JuneLSATFail]

T-30, top 1/3, Secondary Journal. Some leadership positions, but nothing outstanding (President of a few clubs in UG). Very good physical shape. Can do 20+ pull ups, 100 situps in two minutes, and 3 miles in about 19:30 (6:30 minute/per mile pace). Chances for JAG?

You're basically a carbon copy of me when I got selected for USMC JAG in the spring of 2012. You should be very competitive, but with the cut backs and down economy who knows how many spots will be available and who you will be up against. I know that for the Marines you get selected based upon your region, with each region having a certain number of available contracts. Your numbers make you a good candidate, but all it takes is a few superstars in your region to decide on Marine JAG and your chances take a big hit. Also, having a clean criminal/disciplinary record is a big help, and there is the matter of whether or not you will need any medical waivers.

Thanks for the advice. Disciplinary and criminal record is clean. What is a medical waiver? I have no allergies, no prescriptions, no major medical problems ever (constipation a few times). I do wear contacts and have glasses.

[LSATmakesMeNeurotic]

How important are LORs to the selection process? Do letters from high ranking officers actually carry a lot of weight? I always assumed they were similar to LORs for law school: can't hurt, but not really looked at.

[spleenworship]

How important are LORs to the selection process? Do letters from high ranking officers actually carry a lot of weight? I always assumed they were similar to LORs for law school: can't hurt, but not really looked at.

Ok, I'm not a JA obviously, but I did read (I think in this thread) that a good LOR can be really helpful. IIRC somebody wrote that they thought the letter from their Boy Scouts troop leader was what helped put them over the top.

[ScottRiqui]

How important are LORs to the selection process? Do letters from high ranking officers actually carry a lot of weight? I always assumed they were similar to LORs for law school: can't hurt, but not really looked at.

I think it's like anything else - a strong, personalized letter is probably going to be best, no matter who writes it. My current CO is a two-star general, and is willing to write a letter for me, but he doesn't know enough about what I do to craft a strong LOR, and I don't know that I could adequately convey two years' worth of work to him effectively. So I'm going with my O-5 division chief instead - even though he's only one paygrade above me, he knows so much about me and my work that I think it's probably going to be a more-effective LOR.

[spleenworship]

Pics for JAG Apps... Serious, no smiling I assume? I'm getting them taken today.

[Keithustus]

What, no Bradley Manning discussion? I guess there must be another thread for that.

I've been lurking this thread for awhile but don't think it will be of much use to me. You all mostly to be talking about JAGging whereas I have been in the military for some time and absolutely will not go JAG (pay/rank reduction) but am planning on studying homeland/national security law, and then find some cool position for that somewhere. Any way you can persuade me to keep following this thread? If not this should be retired to "JAGs and JAG Applications" or some such rather than "military law".

[ScottRiqui]

What, no Bradley Manning discussion? I guess there must be another thread for that.

I've been lurking this thread for awhile but don't think it will be of much use to me. You all mostly to be talking about JAGging whereas I have been in the military for some time and absolutely will not go JAG (pay/rank reduction) but am planning on studying homeland/national security law, and then find some cool position for that somewhere. Any way you can persuade me to keep following this thread? If not this should be retired to "JAGs and JAG Applications" or some such rather than "military law".

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