Military Law

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:04 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:If in the event I don't get an opportunity with JAG during this gap year do you guys suggest just doing work under my local city attorney instead? The folks at MacDill base said even though my resume looks great preference is always given to students already enrolled law school. I don't know if the same goes for SoComm but I have seen some other forums on the web that say the general rule of thumb is to get involved with law in the public sector if you can't get anything directly with the military. Any substance to this? Would it set up nicely to get a potential internship after 1L especially if the folks at MacDill have some sort of familiarity with my resume?


Sorry to hear that things did not shake out for you at the base.

USSOUTHCOM would be an interesting experience. They are one of the unified combatant commands, so you would get a much different experience and breadth of exposure - they are also obviously joint, which is a great way to see the similarities and differences between the serviecs. Also, make sure you are sticking with the official designations (USSOUTHCOM or SOUTHCOM vice SoComm). SoComm might get confused with USSOCOM (US Special Operations Command) at MacDill. We always like it when you can speak military.

MacDill is also a great base. You would likely be at base legal for the 6 AMW, supporting the KC-135 refueler mission. There is a ton of brass and other important commands at MacDill as well: United States Central Command (USCENTCOM), United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM), United States Special Operations Command Central (SOCCENT), United States Marine Forces Central Command (MARCENT), among others.

As noted above, you can also touch base with the ADC at MacDill to see if she would want to take you on.

If the JAG angle does not work out, absolutely pursue the city attorney's office and reengage with JAG as a 1L.

I think if USSOUTHCOM doesn't pan out I'll probably just work under my city attorney for 4-6 months and continue to save money to put towards law school by working a little job on the side. MacDill would be great but I just don't have the resources to move up there by myself and support myself while working for free. It's not like I have the luxury of borrowing from the federal government with a reasonable interest rate or funding from a scholarship at this point in time and even if I did get some sort of job up there I'd rather put the $$ towards LS. I have family in the area near SOUTHCOM so I wouldn't have to worry about living expenses but I am still waiting to hear back from SOUTHCOM. I'll try contacting them again if I don't hear back in about a week or two. I really feel like I have done all I can do at this point and it's really in God's hands now. If there are any other suggestions you guys have for me I'd love to hear them. At least I have time on my side right now as I am still over a year away to beginning law school so all is not lost for now.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:18 pm

Just got shot down by USCG. According to my recruiter (you go through enlisted recruiters for CG) the Coast Guard will not be applying for any waivers at this time. They'll call back if that changes.

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:54 pm

spleenworship wrote:Just got shot down by USCG. According to my recruiter (you go through enlisted recruiters for CG) the Coast Guard will not be applying for any waivers at this time. They'll call back if that changes.

Sorry to hear that Spleen. Are you going to try any of the other branches?

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:59 pm

CG takes so few - super difficult to get in and they have one of the least user friendly applications. They do some really cool stuff and even bounce between legal and non legal jobs. CG Article 32 Officer that I had was coming off an XO tour of a ship.

MSUlaw49
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Re: Military Law

Postby MSUlaw49 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:07 am

I got an interview with only the army JAG. I know very little about it, is it worth it to drive 3 hours for the interview?

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:16 am

MSUlaw49 wrote:I got an interview with only the army JAG. I know very little about it, is it worth it to drive 3 hours for the interview?


The interview is only the first step in a process. You need it to submit your application packet, but is that really the closest FSO to your area? Seems a bit far.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:50 am

ALeal90 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Just got shot down by USCG. According to my recruiter (you go through enlisted recruiters for CG) the Coast Guard will not be applying for any waivers at this time. They'll call back if that changes.

Sorry to hear that Spleen. Are you going to try any of the other branches?


Yes. Army and Navy.


In an interesting update, just got a call from a very businesslike CPO who said they would appy for a waiver for me. Game back on!

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:53 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:CG takes so few - super difficult to get in and they have one of the least user friendly applications. They do some really cool stuff and even bounce between legal and non legal jobs. CG Article 32 Officer that I had was coming off an XO tour of a ship.


Yeah. Start at O-3 and after your first 4 years you can apply for billets on cutters and air stations and such doing logistics or XO or all kinds of cool jobs for a few years at a time. I realize I only have like a 3% chance of selection... But, wow would it be cool if I was selected.

Omerta
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Re: Military Law

Postby Omerta » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:40 pm

Is a federal clerkship a big plus for JAG applications?

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:33 pm

Omerta wrote:Is a federal clerkship a big plus for JAG applications?

It seems that the consensus is any position law related in the public sector will always give you a leg up over someone coming from the private sector. However, be advised that selection rates for JAG are between 4%-7% depending on the branch you're looking at.

Omerta
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Re: Military Law

Postby Omerta » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:57 pm

ALeal90 wrote:
Omerta wrote:Is a federal clerkship a big plus for JAG applications?

It seems that the consensus is any position law related in the public sector will always give you a leg up over someone coming from the private sector. However, be advised that selection rates for JAG are between 4%-7% depending on the branch you're looking at.


Yeah, I read the last 20 pages or so before posting and knew that rates were low.

My biggest issue is probably leadership demonstration. I've done a bunch of community service and ran/coached several organizations, but it's probably not up to snuff compared to other applicants. On the upside, I'm in good physical shape -- albeit more of a weightlifter than a runner, I wouldn't have any background check issues, and I have solid grades from a solid school.

Unrelated, good luck to everyone still waiting to hear back!

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:43 pm

A federal clerkship is likely a positive thing, but one problem is that it seems like not a lot of people going the fed clerk route would apply for JAG. ITE, I guess anything's possible, though. A practical reason for this is timing - a clerkship has a certain expiration date, and JAG has an uncertain intake timeline, so you would almost be forced to wait until the end of the clerkship and then apply to give enough of a buffer. Deferrals might be an option, but I highly doubt it.

Of my 60+ JASOC classmates, only a handful had federal clerkship experience, and I believe they were all Reserve/Guard, not Active Duty, and currently federal prosecutors. The JAG intake pipeline might select for people that don't do federal clerkships, so that could skew the numbers. Having worked in the JAG Corps for the limited time that I have, I wouldn't weigh it very heavily in favor of a candidate, at least beyond what a federal clerk's resume would likely already indicate (good grades). It doesn't tell me much about one's ability to try a case or be a good officer.

Pdk7
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Re: Military Law

Postby Pdk7 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:31 am

For those of you starting Army Active Duty in 2014,

Just out of curiosity, what are you doing between now the time you start? Particularly any of you who just graduated and are taking the bar and then leaving in January. I've been looking but not that many people seem to be keen on taking on a baby attorney who is only sticking around for 5 or 6 months.

votewarrior
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Re: Military Law

Postby votewarrior » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:12 am

Pdk7 wrote:For those of you starting Army Active Duty in 2014,

Just out of curiosity, what are you doing between now the time you start? Particularly any of you who just graduated and are taking the bar and then leaving in January. I've been looking but not that many people seem to be keen on taking on a baby attorney who is only sticking around for 5 or 6 months.


I've had the same impression. I talked to my FSO, and she had said not to worry about looking for legal employment, as long as you are staying out of trouble and not getting hurt the Army doesn' really care what you do in between the bar and reporting.

My current hope/ plan is doing a little traveling and then working part time at a restaurant and some volunteer hours at a local legal aid clinic so I don't feel like I totally wasting the law degree.

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:28 am

For those in USAF when would I take the Air Force Officer Qualifying Exam? Would it make my application for GLP and OYCP more attractive if I take it as a civilian if that's even possible? Or do I have to wait until they tell me I'm in to take it?

Update on legal office volunteering: For those that care to monitor my situation in trying to secure a volunteer opportunity with a JAG legal office, the SJA on the homestead base contacted me. It seems as all hope is not lost. In her email, she stated "The base doesn't have a formal volunteer program which makes it difficult to accommodate. I am exploring different avenues to get you in but be advised that it may take a few months for me to start a program."

I wanted to know what these different "avenues" would be and if there is a decent shot I get put through if anybody has any idea.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:52 pm

Interesting read here. This is a compilation from Jan 2013 to Jun 2013 of all the Court Martials the Navy conducted. Note that when the accused pleads guilty there is likely a pre-trial agreement (PTA) in place that limits the sentence the convening authority will approve. The judge has no idea what the sentence limitation is prior to adjudging sentence. Consequently, one could be adjudged 90 days confinement but actually serve no confinement if the PTA specifies disapproval of all confinement.

http://www.navy.mil/docs/MasterCourtMartialSummariesRegionalized_01-062013.pdf

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:10 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:Interesting read here. This is a compilation from Jan 2013 to Jun 2013 of all the Court Martials the Navy conducted. Note that when the accused pleads guilty there is likely a pre-trial agreement (PTA) in place that limits the sentence the convening authority will approve. The judge has no idea what the sentence limitation is prior to adjudging sentence. Consequently, one could be adjudged 90 days confinement but actually serve no confinement if the PTA specifies disapproval of all confinement.

http://www.navy.mil/docs/MasterCourtMartialSummariesRegionalized_01-062013.pdf

Some of these are screaming for Paul Harvey to do a "rest of the story". Like the E-6 tried for attempted arson, making false official statements, swearing false oaths, hoax designed to cause panic, communicating a threat, and wearing unauthorized awards and qualifications and he gets the Big Chicken Dinner (BCD) for only some of the false statements and wearing unauthorized awards.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:46 pm

Rotor wrote:
NavyJAG1 wrote:Interesting read here. This is a compilation from Jan 2013 to Jun 2013 of all the Court Martials the Navy conducted. Note that when the accused pleads guilty there is likely a pre-trial agreement (PTA) in place that limits the sentence the convening authority will approve. The judge has no idea what the sentence limitation is prior to adjudging sentence. Consequently, one could be adjudged 90 days confinement but actually serve no confinement if the PTA specifies disapproval of all confinement.

http://www.navy.mil/docs/MasterCourtMartialSummariesRegionalized_01-062013.pdf

Some of these are screaming for Paul Harvey to do a "rest of the story". Like the E-6 tried for attempted arson, making false official statements, swearing false oaths, hoax designed to cause panic, communicating a threat, and wearing unauthorized awards and qualifications and he gets the Big Chicken Dinner (BCD) for only some of the false statements and wearing unauthorized awards.


.

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JuneLSATFail
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Re: Military Law

Postby JuneLSATFail » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:34 pm

T-30, top 1/3, Secondary Journal. Some leadership positions, but nothing outstanding (President of a few clubs in UG). Very good physical shape. Can do 20+ pull ups, 100 situps in two minutes, and 3 miles in about 19:30 (6:30 minute/per mile pace). Chances for JAG?

chicubs88
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Re: Military Law

Postby chicubs88 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:44 pm

JuneLSATFail wrote:T-30, top 1/3, Secondary Journal. Some leadership positions, but nothing outstanding (President of a few clubs in UG). Very good physical shape. Can do 20+ pull ups, 100 situps in two minutes, and 3 miles in about 19:30 (6:30 minute/per mile pace). Chances for JAG?


You're basically a carbon copy of me when I got selected for USMC JAG in the spring of 2012. You should be very competitive, but with the cut backs and down economy who knows how many spots will be available and who you will be up against. I know that for the Marines you get selected based upon your region, with each region having a certain number of available contracts. Your numbers make you a good candidate, but all it takes is a few superstars in your region to decide on Marine JAG and your chances take a big hit. Also, having a clean criminal/disciplinary record is a big help, and there is the matter of whether or not you will need any medical waivers.

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JuneLSATFail
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Re: Military Law

Postby JuneLSATFail » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:49 pm

chicubs88 wrote:
JuneLSATFail wrote:T-30, top 1/3, Secondary Journal. Some leadership positions, but nothing outstanding (President of a few clubs in UG). Very good physical shape. Can do 20+ pull ups, 100 situps in two minutes, and 3 miles in about 19:30 (6:30 minute/per mile pace). Chances for JAG?


You're basically a carbon copy of me when I got selected for USMC JAG in the spring of 2012. You should be very competitive, but with the cut backs and down economy who knows how many spots will be available and who you will be up against. I know that for the Marines you get selected based upon your region, with each region having a certain number of available contracts. Your numbers make you a good candidate, but all it takes is a few superstars in your region to decide on Marine JAG and your chances take a big hit. Also, having a clean criminal/disciplinary record is a big help, and there is the matter of whether or not you will need any medical waivers.


Thanks for the advice. Disciplinary and criminal record is clean. What is a medical waiver? I have no allergies, no prescriptions, no major medical problems ever (constipation a few times). I do wear contacts and have glasses.

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:53 pm

How important are LORs to the selection process? Do letters from high ranking officers actually carry a lot of weight? I always assumed they were similar to LORs for law school: can't hurt, but not really looked at.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:16 am

LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:How important are LORs to the selection process? Do letters from high ranking officers actually carry a lot of weight? I always assumed they were similar to LORs for law school: can't hurt, but not really looked at.


Ok, I'm not a JA obviously, but I did read (I think in this thread) that a good LOR can be really helpful. IIRC somebody wrote that they thought the letter from their Boy Scouts troop leader was what helped put them over the top.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Military Law

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:19 am

LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:How important are LORs to the selection process? Do letters from high ranking officers actually carry a lot of weight? I always assumed they were similar to LORs for law school: can't hurt, but not really looked at.


I think it's like anything else - a strong, personalized letter is probably going to be best, no matter who writes it. My current CO is a two-star general, and is willing to write a letter for me, but he doesn't know enough about what I do to craft a strong LOR, and I don't know that I could adequately convey two years' worth of work to him effectively. So I'm going with my O-5 division chief instead - even though he's only one paygrade above me, he knows so much about me and my work that I think it's probably going to be a more-effective LOR.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:29 am

Pics for JAG Apps... Serious, no smiling I assume? I'm getting them taken today.




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