Military Law

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:01 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:Hey all. So I know that the JAG selection rate hovers around 8% or so. Is there a consensus on what the selection rate is for people with prior service, assuming they had a good record of service?

I assume that a fair amount of applicants without any military experience get knocked off right in the beginning because they're medically unqualified, don't look like they can pass a PT test, can't get a security clearance, or just don't seem like they'll adjust well to the military.

I'm an Army Reserve (but with several years of active duty time)) captain with a deployment to Iraq under my belt, and while I'm not doing any ironmans, I can comfortably pass a PT test and have a TS//SCI clearance. I assume this would give me something of an inside track for JAG, but does anyone have any idea how much of a boost this is? Is it still an ultra long shot?

Other people might have better info, but this is what I've gathered based on seeing who gets selected and hearing stories from people close to or part of selection boards.

Prior military service can cut both ways. It's good in that it shows you can do what you need to do - stay in shape, acclimate to military life, be okay with deploying, lead others, etc.

Some problems can come up with it, though. Be sure to be able to sell why you want to change and/or why you left/are leaving the Army and/or your job there. A problem a lot of JAGs with prior service run into (at least in the AF - I assume it's similar in other branches, but I could be wrong) is that by the time you're a senior captain or a major, you are thrust into leadership positions. It's difficult getting much experience doing the job before you're actually having to run an office. A lot of captains with prior experience seem to be rushing to get in different experiences/training before they promote to major and/or have to start running a legal office. I don't know at what point a captain is too senior to switch over or if that's different for each branch.

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:31 am

Just got off the phone with the 42nd fighter wing legal office at the homestead AF base. Looks like I'll be volunteering on a part time basis starting in a few weeks. Should help a lot when I start applying for the internship, GLP, OYCP right?

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:42 pm

ALeal90 wrote:Just got off the phone with the 42nd fighter wing legal office at the homestead AF base. Looks like I'll be volunteering on a part time basis starting in a few weeks. Should help a lot when I start applying for the internship, GLP, OYCP right?


Yes. It'll be a great part of your application as long as you do well and show them you'd make a great JAG. If you can interview with the SJA you're interning with and he/she likes you and your work product, it'll go a long way.

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:35 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:Just got off the phone with the 42nd fighter wing legal office at the homestead AF base. Looks like I'll be volunteering on a part time basis starting in a few weeks. Should help a lot when I start applying for the internship, GLP, OYCP right?


Yes. It'll be a great part of your application as long as you do well and show them you'd make a great JAG. If you can interview with the SJA you're interning with and he/she likes you and your work product, it'll go a long way.

Great to hear. I turned down a position to intern with my local government mayor and resigned as secretary of my advisory board to pursue this. Should know exactly what the deal is in the next few days

erik_1717
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Re: Military Law

Postby erik_1717 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:25 pm

hncsarge34 wrote:
erik_1717 wrote:No luck for me as well! First time applying and it will be the last time with Navy. Marine OCS this summer!!!!!


You should log on during your first libo weekend and tell us how it's going.



Hello All. Disappointing Marine OCS update. During week 4 I injured my left shoulder. I toughed it out for about five days before I had to go to medical. Four days and an MRI later and to my shock, I tore my labrum. I tried to tough it out for two more days but it wasn't happening and I was NPQ'd (not physically qualified). The good news is that I have been given the chance to reapply, but as a 2L, I likely will have to wait until after the Bar to go back, frustratingly. Onto my OCS thoughts though.

Week one (In Processing)
This was by far the longest part of OCS for me. This is where you are first introduced to "Hurry up and wait" ideology. You are rushed everywhere you go, only to stand/sit around for hours waiting on things. You are beginning to be given tasks to do in a short amount of time, but it's nothing like what you're going to be exposed to once training begins. You go through medical, get all of your supplies and gear, run your initial PFT, and go to different classes (more like lectures because they aren't testing you on anything in them). The best advice I can give to someone in this phase is to begin to get in the mindset to get tasks done as quickly as possible. If you can get this mindset down, you will get more sleep later when you really are given tons of stuff to do.

Pick-up day:
I spent a large part of the night prior to pick up day putting all of my stuff in 10 or 11 ziplock baggies that I then taped so that when all of our stuff was dumped out, my stuff would be easier to pick up. They never dumped our stuff! However, this hurt me in the end, because during pick up day, the Sergeant Instructors would want us to get stuff out and all of my stuff was taped and sealed tight in ziplock baggies haha. Other than that hiccup, pick up day itself honestly isn't so bad. You're being introduced to the miserableness that is OCS, but if you were serious about OCS, you already knew this was coming.

The next three weeks;
You are being introduced to the "routine" that is OCS. The best way I can describe this is that you're going to either wake up and go to chow (breakfast) or PT (workout). After that you usually work on drill or go to classes, then have more chow before you spend your afternoon either in more classes or doing something active. Then you go to evening chow and end up doing something in the evening until lights out. After lights out, in the initial weeks, you are mainly marking gear such as your PT shirts. In the latter weeks, you were still marking gear, but not PT shirts, and you were also studying. Marking gear is always annoying, but PT shirts were the worst because they took the longest, plus after a week or two, you start to learn tricks to make yourself faster.

While that is a rough daily schedule, there are certain days you do bigger events. I would suggest trying to look forward to days like this, as it will help make days go faster. These are things like SULE I, LRC, Obstacle Course, humps, Combat course, and Land Nav just to name a few. Not all of these were fun, but attitude is everything. When you're somewhere like OCS that can really be terrible, a good attitude is really going to help. I don't have a lot of time to expand on each of these events right now, but I can talk more later if I get time or if someone has a question about one.

My OCS advice:
If possible, FIND PRIOR ENLISTED WITHIN YOUR PLATOON. My rackmate was a prior and he was a great guy. Always helping me out, giving me pointers, and answering my questions. Almost every Prior in our platoon was like this. I can't stress enough how important it is to get to know priors. In my time, if you respected their experience and knowledge, they respected your questions (I asked a ton). One of my favorite things about OCS was all of the great men I met in my Platoon. Sure, we had some screw up guys that made me wonder how they even got there, but for the most part, every guy was great. The teamwork you begin to feel is unreal. Everyone is learning to watch the back of those around them and you really start to take pride in your group.

Learn to take advantage of any free time. Free time is invaluable to a candidate. Whether it be 5 minutes or 30, never waste time! This seems obvious, but I can remember candidates who would move slowly during free time and those were the candidates up every night until 1 or 2. Sleep deprivation is inevitable so it's important to try and get as much sleep as possible. Try as hard as possible to stay awake in class. If you get called out for sleeping in class, don't sweat it, more than half the company was probably sleeping too. Before I left, I read on one post to just go to the back of the class and stand up so you are forced to pay attention. While I never did this, it is probably great advice. It leads to the need to study less, thus ultimately sleeping more (critical).

Find little positives in each day and learn to appreciate them. A head call, a drill session where you did well, a class that you were actually able to stay awake and follow along. Any of these work. No one at OCS is there to tell you you're doing a good job. You're going to be surrounded by tons of negative, so it's important to find your own internal successes. I saw too many guys get down on themselves so quickly and that was the death of them. You've got to toughen up! If you put in the necessary physical work before going down, then OCS is about 99% mental.

That's about all I've got for now. I may add more later when I get time. While it all sucked terribly, I really miss being around my platoon and I've wished I was down there every day since I left. I have tons of great and funny memories that I always think about and I have developed a great pride and respect for the USMC. I know I was only there for 4/10 weeks, but I can confidently say that this is the greatest leadership experience that any person can be exposed to. Since my chance to go back to OCS is so far away, I'm not sure if I'll be able to go back again, but I do know that I will never look at the USMC the same again. This may seem obvious, but the amount of respect I have for the Marines is incredible.

PS: I haven't read this over so there may be some typos.

erik_1717
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Re: Military Law

Postby erik_1717 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:28 pm

Oh yeah and one other thing. As I said, I won't be able to do anything with the USMC until post Bar. So until then, I have decided to look back into applying to the other branches. I'm 0/1 Navy, 1/1 Army Summer Internship (Alternate), 0/1 AF Internship, and 1/1 USMC. I'm thinking that I'll apply to all four again during 3L year. My question to any current JAGs or anyone with knowledge, do you think my OCS experience would help my application in any significant way? I don't see it as hurting it, but am curious to how much you think it would help? Thanks.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:39 pm

erik_1717 wrote:Oh yeah and one other thing. As I said, I won't be able to do anything with the USMC until post Bar. So until then, I have decided to look back into applying to the other branches. I'm 0/1 Navy, 1/1 Army Summer Internship (Alternate), 0/1 AF Internship, and 1/1 USMC. I'm thinking that I'll apply to all four again during 3L year. My question to any current JAGs or anyone with knowledge, do you think my OCS experience would help my application in any significant way? I don't see it as hurting it, but am curious to how much you think it would help? Thanks.


I think it will be tough to sell - because you did not complete OCS. Also, not sure how the other branches will treat this medical condition.

erik_1717
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Re: Military Law

Postby erik_1717 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:03 pm

NavyJAG1 wrote:
erik_1717 wrote:Oh yeah and one other thing. As I said, I won't be able to do anything with the USMC until post Bar. So until then, I have decided to look back into applying to the other branches. I'm 0/1 Navy, 1/1 Army Summer Internship (Alternate), 0/1 AF Internship, and 1/1 USMC. I'm thinking that I'll apply to all four again during 3L year. My question to any current JAGs or anyone with knowledge, do you think my OCS experience would help my application in any significant way? I don't see it as hurting it, but am curious to how much you think it would help? Thanks.


I think it will be tough to sell - because you did not complete OCS. Also, not sure how the other branches will treat this medical condition.



Right. I've had the same thoughts. The positive is that I was injured rather than kicked out or quitting on my own terms. I should be going to the doctor in the next week. As bad as any tear is, it seems a torn labrum is actually not as bad as what could happen to a shoulder. The Corpsman who saw me at medical actually thought the labrum was already torn when I came to OCS and that I just tweaked it while I was there. I'm hoping this won't require surgery but even if it does, it seems like the other branches don't ask medical questions until after they've accepted you. By then, I'd assume I could get the waiver needed so I'm thinking that won't be an issue. I was hoping that I could use my going to OCS to show that I am committed to service to my country as well as the fact that I at least have 4 weeks of military experience opposed to the zero I had before going to OCS. It's just hard to think of where I would include that on an application. It's not true prior service in the sense that I never enlisted/commissioned, but it is experience in exposure to military lifestyle.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:12 pm

In the Navy, you don't get accepted. You get a conditional offer of a commission. One of those conditions, is passing a commissioning physical. I am not trying to be a downer, and I really hope it does not disqualify you. The problem is that the military is pretty rigid with its medical standards prior to commissioning. After commissioning it is a lot easier to get waivers.

At the end of the structured interview for the Navy there is an informal question and answer period. You could try to work in your OCS experience at that point and it may get noted on your interview appraisal sheet that will be forwarded to the board.

FastEddy
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Re: Military Law

Postby FastEddy » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:58 pm

I am 0L and in the process of applying to Law School. HOWEVER, I work in military recruiting and directly with the process of recruiting lawyers into the military I see a lot of questions, and I think a lot of misconceptions could be cleared up. I work specially with the USMC when it comes to this and the other branches may do it differently. What I have to say is specifically for the Marine Corps.

Does where I goto law school matter when it comes to being selected for JAG?
Rarely, especially if you are currently in law school. All they care about is whether you meet the criteria in order to join, and you leadership qualities after that. Your physical fitness scores are extremely important and demonstrated leadership during undergraduate and law school. (i.e. athletics, organizations, ROTC) GPA is a factor but not life or death. Minimum LSAT score is a 150 (not terribly difficult in most regards), but that just serves as a backstop. In my personal experience, I have seen a TTT student who was a college football player get selected over a K-JD law student at a
T-25.

Whats the process?
The Marine Corps has two programs, PLC (Platoon Leaders Course) for current law students and OCC (Officer Commissioning Course) for graduates. PLC is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH easier to get selected for right now. You can apply for PLC literally when you have an acceptance letter from a ABA-accredited school in-hand. That being said, PLC is much easier than OCC in a sense of comparing difficult to virtually impossible. OCC candidates are seen as high risk because they are generally older, less physically fit and they already have the negative dagger of it seeming like the military was their "last resort".

How does PLC work?
You are selected, attend OCS between 1L and 2L or if you apply during 2L, between 2L and 3L. You are commissioned a 2nd Lt. in the reserves during law school. All you are really responsible is maintaining your military standards (height, weight, appearance and moral) during school.

Is JAG worth considering?
This is the honest truth, in today's legal market, a person would be a fool to not at least look into it. I am currently an enlisted Marine, however, the commissioned officers over me, including their housing allowance make well over six-figures.

If you want to go JAG, how can I build my resume?
LEADERSHIP, PHYSICAL FITNESS, GRADES...in that order...at least for the USMC. The officer standards for physical fitness are no joke. Competitive would be 18-19:00 3 mile-run, 18-20 dead hang pull-ups and 100 sit-ups in 2 minutes. THIS IS A HUGE FACTOR for the selection.

I will look for more questions...but just thought I would chime in.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:03 pm

NavyJAG1 wrote:I am not trying to be a downer, and I really hope it does not disqualify you. The problem is that the military is pretty rigid with its medical standards prior to commissioning. After commissioning it is a lot easier to get waivers.


I would respectfully disagree. I think military medical standards are a black box. I know someone who has two issues that should have required a waiver, but did not. I know others who have had mild issues and got ran through the runner for it. It's kind of the luck of the draw, IMHO.

Ranger85
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Re: Military Law

Postby Ranger85 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:16 pm

I would 100% not mention the OCS experience to any other branches when applying to other branches. I know it sucks but even though you not completing OCS was out of your control, that failure is a huge red flag to everyone. It doesn't matter that it was medical, you will be labeled as a medical risk that they won't want to take a risk on. Trust me just keep it to yourself. The only people you can mention it to are the Marines since they will most likely still be tracking it when you go to reapply anyway.

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:56 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:Just got off the phone with the 42nd fighter wing legal office at the homestead AF base. Looks like I'll be volunteering on a part time basis starting in a few weeks. Should help a lot when I start applying for the internship, GLP, OYCP right?


Yes. It'll be a great part of your application as long as you do well and show them you'd make a great JAG. If you can interview with the SJA you're interning with and he/she likes you and your work product, it'll go a long way.


If you or anybody you know can answer these questions it'd be greatly appreciated: So I spoke to the SJA and she told me that the department that handles volunteers has yet to get back to her. She explained that although she'd love to get me in the office, it all goes through this department first and that there is a possibility that they may deny her request to get me in. Does anybody have an idea as to how this process works? Is there certain things that department will be looking for? Is there anything I can be doing now to increase my chances at getting cleared? It's not like I have a checkered past or anything so should I be worried? I am still working with my city government/mayor and will continue to do so until I know what is going to happen with this for sure.. If anyone has an opinion I'd be happy to hear it.

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tyler.durden
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Re: Military Law

Postby tyler.durden » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:17 pm

FastEddy wrote:I am 0L and in the process of applying to Law School. HOWEVER, I work in military recruiting and directly with the process of recruiting lawyers into the military I see a lot of questions, and I think a lot of misconceptions could be cleared up. I work specially with the USMC when it comes to this and the other branches may do it differently. What I have to say is specifically for the Marine Corps.

Does where I goto law school matter when it comes to being selected for JAG?
Rarely, especially if you are currently in law school. All they care about is whether you meet the criteria in order to join, and you leadership qualities after that. Your physical fitness scores are extremely important and demonstrated leadership during undergraduate and law school. (i.e. athletics, organizations, ROTC) GPA is a factor but not life or death. Minimum LSAT score is a 150 (not terribly difficult in most regards), but that just serves as a backstop. In my personal experience, I have seen a TTT student who was a college football player get selected over a K-JD law student at a
T-25.

Whats the process?
The Marine Corps has two programs, PLC (Platoon Leaders Course) for current law students and OCC (Officer Commissioning Course) for graduates. PLC is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH easier to get selected for right now. You can apply for PLC literally when you have an acceptance letter from a ABA-accredited school in-hand. That being said, PLC is much easier than OCC in a sense of comparing difficult to virtually impossible. OCC candidates are seen as high risk because they are generally older, less physically fit and they already have the negative dagger of it seeming like the military was their "last resort".

How does PLC work?
You are selected, attend OCS between 1L and 2L or if you apply during 2L, between 2L and 3L. You are commissioned a 2nd Lt. in the reserves during law school. All you are really responsible is maintaining your military standards (height, weight, appearance and moral) during school.

Is JAG worth considering?
This is the honest truth, in today's legal market, a person would be a fool to not at least look into it. I am currently an enlisted Marine, however, the commissioned officers over me, including their housing allowance make well over six-figures.

If you want to go JAG, how can I build my resume?
LEADERSHIP, PHYSICAL FITNESS, GRADES...in that order...at least for the USMC. The officer standards for physical fitness are no joke. Competitive would be 18-19:00 3 mile-run, 18-20 dead hang pull-ups and 100 sit-ups in 2 minutes. THIS IS A HUGE FACTOR for the selection.

I will look for more questions...but just thought I would chime in.



What office are you an OSA for?

ETA: excellent and accurate advice btw...

FastEddy
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Re: Military Law

Postby FastEddy » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:49 pm

I work for RS Des Moines but this is a product I have a lot of knowledge on because not only working with it but considering it myself.

FastEddy
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Re: Military Law

Postby FastEddy » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:53 pm

Ranger85 wrote:I would 100% not mention the OCS experience to any other branches when applying to other branches. I know it sucks but even though you not completing OCS was out of your control, that failure is a huge red flag to everyone. It doesn't matter that it was medical, you will be labeled as a medical risk that they won't want to take a risk on. Trust me just keep it to yourself. The only people you can mention it to are the Marines since they will most likely still be tracking it when you go to reapply anyway.



This is foolish advice and would not only hurt your ability to get into the military but could even be questionable for character and fitness for the bar exam. Being an OCS drop is considered a form of DISCHARGE from the military (Entry Level Discharge) and is required to be disclosed on applications for most things. Dishonesty will be discovered and medical information is shared...a road I would not venture down.

My advice...retake, ED UVA...no but really your best bet is to go through the waiver process and roll the dice...

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:57 pm

ALeal90 wrote:If you or anybody you know can answer these questions it'd be greatly appreciated: So I spoke to the SJA and she told me that the department that handles volunteers has yet to get back to her. She explained that although she'd love to get me in the office, it all goes through this department first and that there is a possibility that they may deny her request to get me in. Does anybody have an idea as to how this process works? Is there certain things that department will be looking for? Is there anything I can be doing now to increase my chances at getting cleared? It's not like I have a checkered past or anything so should I be worried? I am still working with my city government/mayor and will continue to do so until I know what is going to happen with this for sure.. If anyone has an opinion I'd be happy to hear it.


Can't say I've had that happened and I've worked 9 months at the local AF base. The closest thing to that I've experienced is that I am currently working at the local ADC and he had to clear it with his bosses for me to intern.

Also, for all TLSers: if you can't swing an unofficial internship with your local AF legal office, try the ADC office. They're overworked and chances are, they'd jump at the help.

dcng1311
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Re: Military Law

Postby dcng1311 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:24 pm

Can anybody offer insight specifically on the Student Program for Navy JAG? Is it as competitive as Direct Appointment, past timelines, qualifications, etc.?

Thanks in advance, and feel free to PM me if you don't wish to share over a forum thread.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:10 pm

You can find timelines for the Student Program on the Navy JAG website. Lately the selection rate has been around 4-7%, so yes it is competitive. Direct Accessions is a strange beast. They are looking for a very specific skill set, in my opinion it is the most difficult route to go to get selected. There is no set formula for selection but it is helpful to be highly ranked, attend a highly ranked school, have a high LSAT (it is weird, but the LSAT still counts for JAG selection). Doing well on the structured interview is a plus - but you really cannot prepare yourself for it.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:48 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:If you or anybody you know can answer these questions it'd be greatly appreciated: So I spoke to the SJA and she told me that the department that handles volunteers has yet to get back to her. She explained that although she'd love to get me in the office, it all goes through this department first and that there is a possibility that they may deny her request to get me in. Does anybody have an idea as to how this process works? Is there certain things that department will be looking for? Is there anything I can be doing now to increase my chances at getting cleared? It's not like I have a checkered past or anything so should I be worried? I am still working with my city government/mayor and will continue to do so until I know what is going to happen with this for sure.. If anyone has an opinion I'd be happy to hear it.


Can't say I've had that happened and I've worked 9 months at the local AF base. The closest thing to that I've experienced is that I am currently working at the local ADC and he had to clear it with his bosses for me to intern.

Also, for all TLSers: if you can't swing an unofficial internship with your local AF legal office, try the ADC office. They're overworked and chances are, they'd jump at the help.


ALeal: It may something the SJA is clearing through our accessions directorate (JAX) or with her higher level command. It may also be a local base issue in terms of getting you cleared to come on base through Security Forces or cleared to get onto the network through Comm. In that you are not an official DOD intern, it can be a pain in the ass to get you access because you do not have the official paperwork. Let it play out - July is an impossibly busy month for the JAG Corps as 50% of us PCS/PCA during this month. That means a lot of manning issues and delays.

I'll second bouakedojo's advice about hitting up the ADC. In my slightly biased opinion, it is the best job in the AF JAG Corps for those at the Captain level. You also stand to gain greater exposure with the ADC as it is such a small office (generally just a ADC and the Defense Paralegal) versus knocking out civil law taskers at base legal. You can also gain some incredibly valuable perspective on the military justice process working with defenders - something that is usually completely absent from the folks at the legal office.

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:38 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:
ALeal90 wrote:If you or anybody you know can answer these questions it'd be greatly appreciated: So I spoke to the SJA and she told me that the department that handles volunteers has yet to get back to her. She explained that although she'd love to get me in the office, it all goes through this department first and that there is a possibility that they may deny her request to get me in. Does anybody have an idea as to how this process works? Is there certain things that department will be looking for? Is there anything I can be doing now to increase my chances at getting cleared? It's not like I have a checkered past or anything so should I be worried? I am still working with my city government/mayor and will continue to do so until I know what is going to happen with this for sure.. If anyone has an opinion I'd be happy to hear it.


Can't say I've had that happened and I've worked 9 months at the local AF base. The closest thing to that I've experienced is that I am currently working at the local ADC and he had to clear it with his bosses for me to intern.

Also, for all TLSers: if you can't swing an unofficial internship with your local AF legal office, try the ADC office. They're overworked and chances are, they'd jump at the help.


ALeal: It may something the SJA is clearing through our accessions directorate (JAX) or with her higher level command. It may also be a local base issue in terms of getting you cleared to come on base through Security Forces or cleared to get onto the network through Comm. In that you are not an official DOD intern, it can be a pain in the ass to get you access because you do not have the official paperwork. Let it play out - July is an impossibly busy month for the JAG Corps as 50% of us PCS/PCA during this month. That means a lot of manning issues and delays.

I'll second bouakedojo's advice about hitting up the ADC. In my slightly biased opinion, it is the best job in the AF JAG Corps for those at the Captain level. You also stand to gain greater exposure with the ADC as it is such a small office (generally just a ADC and the Defense Paralegal) versus knocking out civil law taskers at base legal. You can also gain some incredibly valuable perspective on the military justice process working with defenders - something that is usually completely absent from the folks at the legal office.

Thanks for that input Patrick. I actually received disheartening news from the SJA. They are not allowing any volunteers without access to the base to do anything and as of now and will not be granting access to the base for now. However, the SJA did refer me to US Southern Command in Miami where I can work with JAGs from multiple branches including AF and also the AF MacDill base in Tampa where it is quite common place to take volunteers in the legal office because it is such a big base. I spoke to the Army JAG at SoComm yesterday and he took my info down to get a call back from the AF JAG. It's nice to know I have potential options so I'm sure it'll work out. Just gotta make sure I stay on top of it. I'm hoping it gives me a leg up in GLP and OYCP selection

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Young Marino
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Re: Military Law

Postby Young Marino » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:55 pm

If in the event I don't get an opportunity with JAG during this gap year do you guys suggest just doing work under my local city attorney instead? The folks at MacDill base said even though my resume looks great preference is always given to students already enrolled law school. I don't know if the same goes for SoComm but I have seen some other forums on the web that say the general rule of thumb is to get involved with law in the public sector if you can't get anything directly with the military. Any substance to this? Would it set up nicely to get a potential internship after 1L especially if the folks at MacDill have some sort of familiarity with my resume?

TucsonLawVet
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Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby TucsonLawVet » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:58 pm

Hi All,

I'm hoping you can give me some advice. My husband wants to join JAG, but we have some possible hurdles to overcome. He's prior service enlisted Army, medboarded due to an injury in Iraq that is now rehabbed. He'll meet all height/weight standards. He had a TS/SCI when he was in, but that's expired. He's 2 years into his BS in Leadership in the Public Sector. He's 28, so won't be going to law school until 30/31. Our question is, he wanted to join the Navy reserves, to get experience as a legalman, and have a way to pay for law school. Is it better to stay civilian until he's in law school, or join the reserves this fall as planned? Will his age disqualify him from some programs?

TIA

Fed_Atty
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:01 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:06 pm

TucsonLawVet wrote:Hi All,

I'm hoping you can give me some advice. My husband wants to join JAG, but we have some possible hurdles to overcome. He's prior service enlisted Army, medboarded due to an injury in Iraq that is now rehabbed. He'll meet all height/weight standards. He had a TS/SCI when he was in, but that's expired. He's 2 years into his BS in Leadership in the Public Sector. He's 28, so won't be going to law school until 30/31. Our question is, he wanted to join the Navy reserves, to get experience as a legalman, and have a way to pay for law school. Is it better to stay civilian until he's in law school, or join the reserves this fall as planned? Will his age disqualify him from some programs?

TIA


What rank would your husband enter the reserves in? On Active Duty legalmen must be an E-5, you cannot start out in that rate. Does he still have his GI Bill benefits? I was a reservist while in law school, I think it is the way to go. You cannot find too many other jobs where you earn that much in a weekend and only have to do one weekend a month. You must be 35 at the time of commissioning for the Navy. Not sure what the age limits are in the other services, I think Marines is lower.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:37 pm

ALeal90 wrote:If in the event I don't get an opportunity with JAG during this gap year do you guys suggest just doing work under my local city attorney instead? The folks at MacDill base said even though my resume looks great preference is always given to students already enrolled law school. I don't know if the same goes for SoComm but I have seen some other forums on the web that say the general rule of thumb is to get involved with law in the public sector if you can't get anything directly with the military. Any substance to this? Would it set up nicely to get a potential internship after 1L especially if the folks at MacDill have some sort of familiarity with my resume?


Sorry to hear that things did not shake out for you at the base.

USSOUTHCOM would be an interesting experience. They are one of the unified combatant commands, so you would get a much different experience and breadth of exposure - they are also obviously joint, which is a great way to see the similarities and differences between the serviecs. Also, make sure you are sticking with the official designations (USSOUTHCOM or SOUTHCOM vice SoComm). SoComm might get confused with USSOCOM (US Special Operations Command) at MacDill. We always like it when you can speak military.

MacDill is also a great base. You would likely be at base legal for the 6 AMW, supporting the KC-135 refueler mission. There is a ton of brass and other important commands at MacDill as well: United States Central Command (USCENTCOM), United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM), United States Special Operations Command Central (SOCCENT), United States Marine Forces Central Command (MARCENT), among others.

As noted above, you can also touch base with the ADC at MacDill to see if she would want to take you on.

If the JAG angle does not work out, absolutely pursue the city attorney's office and reengage with JAG as a 1L.




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