Military Law

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Ranger85
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Re: Military Law

Postby Ranger85 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:04 am

ajax adonis wrote:Do current Army JAGs ever lose their jobs because they become medically disqualified? Can it happen? Say you qualify, you've been in JAG for 3 years, and then the doctor says you've developed asthma or something like that. Can you essentially lose your job? I want to know because I want to know what job security is like. Thank you.



This is pretty unlikely. Unless the physical development was something so bad you could not perform normal "Army Functions". I know guys who have had asthma and stayed in. As long as its minor and you can still run 2 miles in the right amount of time. The only thing I've seen is guys developing permanent injuries that caused them to medically retire. 9 times out of 10 this was caused by the Army so you are going to get a medical retirement. The 1 out of 10 that you are talking about would be things like epilepsy, sickle cell anemia, heart conditions and other genetic disorders that weren't discovered before but will most likely force you out and will not trigger a med retirement because the Army didn't cause it your genetics did.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:10 am

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Lock74
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Re: Military Law

Postby Lock74 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:32 pm

Hey guys I made a thread earlier that asks if I should get a free MBA or not. Here is a link to it viewtopic.php?f=5&t=207690 . But basically I would like to know from you all how having a MBA would help for selection in JAG for any branch? I know more than likely it will not be anything significant but if it may give me an edge over another candidate then I would definitely have more incentive to stay at my undergrad and get the degree. Let me know what you all think.

Clemson772
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Re: Military Law

Postby Clemson772 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:44 am

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Myself
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Postby Myself » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:59 pm

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:20 pm

Lock74 wrote:Hey guys I made a thread earlier that asks if I should get a free MBA or not. Here is a link to it viewtopic.php?f=5&t=207690 . But basically I would like to know from you all how having a MBA would help for selection in JAG for any branch? I know more than likely it will not be anything significant but if it may give me an edge over another candidate then I would definitely have more incentive to stay at my undergrad and get the degree. Let me know what you all think.


An MBA will not hurt you but I cannot see any situation where it gives you a truly competitive edge. Sure, there could be that moment where you are against another identically ranked applicant and a masters degree is the only differentiating detail, but with the volume and variety of applicants, that probably is not going to come up.

On the other hand, it could lead to this amazing exchange between you and the interviewing SJA:

SJA: I see that you have an MBA - do you have an interest in business?
Lock74: Colonel, I'm in the terrorist killin' business. And if you select me sir, business will be a-boomin!

Image

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Lock74
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Re: Military Law

Postby Lock74 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:52 pm

Haha thanks for the laugh Patrick and to be honest that is what I figured I would hear. I also wanted to thank you for helping keep this thread going. A lot of this information is what helped me decide to work towards a career as a JAG. I know this next question has probably been answered but I cannot seem to find it. I have been looking at the Air Force GLP and I was wondering how competitive it is to be selected? I know direct appointment is getting more and more competitive but at this point in my career, I have settled on being a JAG and I do not see that changing. Knowing this, is the Air Force GLP the way to go? If there has already been a lengthy discussion on this, please show me where it is.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:37 am

ajax adonis wrote:I gotta question for a friend of mine. He's one of the unlucky few Army JAG ADs who got pushed all the way to January 2015. However, he's got an interview with a judge coming up, and the term would be from August 2013 to August 2015. He would love to do this clerkship, especially because he's got nothing else going on until January 2015. Is it possible to push the JAG start date even further to fall 2015? Can anyone speak to this? Do any former JAGs know of people who have done something like this?

He should call/email JARO.

paul554
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Re: Military Law

Postby paul554 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:42 am

Lock74 wrote:Haha thanks for the laugh Patrick and to be honest that is what I figured I would hear. I also wanted to thank you for helping keep this thread going. A lot of this information is what helped me decide to work towards a career as a JAG. I know this next question has probably been answered but I cannot seem to find it. I have been looking at the Air Force GLP and I was wondering how competitive it is to be selected? I know direct appointment is getting more and more competitive but at this point in my career, I have settled on being a JAG and I do not see that changing. Knowing this, is the Air Force GLP the way to go? If there has already been a lengthy discussion on this, please show me where it is.


I talked to a GLP applicant last week to ask that same question. I was told that 4 people total were selected for last fiscal year due to budget concerns and such. It is highly competitive but also a great way to get on board and apply. Worst case you have your packet all ready to apply again next year!

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:14 pm

Lock74 wrote:Haha thanks for the laugh Patrick and to be honest that is what I figured I would hear. I also wanted to thank you for helping keep this thread going. A lot of this information is what helped me decide to work towards a career as a JAG. I know this next question has probably been answered but I cannot seem to find it. I have been looking at the Air Force GLP and I was wondering how competitive it is to be selected? I know direct appointment is getting more and more competitive but at this point in my career, I have settled on being a JAG and I do not see that changing. Knowing this, is the Air Force GLP the way to go? If there has already been a lengthy discussion on this, please show me where it is.


As a general rule, I would say GLP and OYCP are as competitive as DAP. It gets tricky to break down the numbers on this because while there are far less applicants selected for GLP/OYCP (usually single digits), there are also less applicants. There are no stats published so I'm not able to crunch the data where I can say X% are selected for DAP and Y% for GLP/OYCP.

If you know you want to pursue AF JAG, absolutely apply for GLP. That said, GLP will not be any easier of a road than DAP, so be prepared to also submit applications for OYCP and then the internship & DAP if necessary.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:55 pm

paul554 wrote:I talked to a GLP applicant last week to ask that same question. I was told that 4 people total were selected for last fiscal year due to budget concerns and such. It is highly competitive but also a great way to get on board and apply. Worst case you have your packet all ready to apply again next year!


There were actually 3 selected for GLP and 4 selected for OYCP.

An officer I know called JAX and asked how many applicants there were for the OYCP around a year ago and they said 108 for that year.

paul554
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Re: Military Law

Postby paul554 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:03 am

bouakedojo wrote:
paul554 wrote:I talked to a GLP applicant last week to ask that same question. I was told that 4 people total were selected for last fiscal year due to budget concerns and such. It is highly competitive but also a great way to get on board and apply. Worst case you have your packet all ready to apply again next year!


There were actually 3 selected for GLP and 4 selected for OYCP.

An officer I know called JAX and asked how many applicants there were for the OYCP around a year ago and they said 108 for that year.


Why couldn't that read 34 selected instead of 3! That does seem about right though in relation to what I was told. By the way, the non-select I talked to was former army officer, 2 deployments, top 20% of class etc, etc. so it does appear to be VERY competitive!

target
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Re: Military Law

Postby target » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:42 pm

so does any one know how many get selected in the last navy board?

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:34 am

target wrote:so does any one know how many get selected in the last navy board?

USN Report to ABA (LinkRemoved)

Page 25 wrote:The JAG Corps received 803 applications for 54 positions in 2012 (49 SP, 5 DAP, 3 LEP).


Can't find a breakdown of how many selected per SP board (or how many total student applications vs DAP/LEP). Additional information needed:
-How many total SP applicants? (per board? whole year?)
-How many 1st time SP applicants were selected vs. repeat SP applicants?
-How many total DAP/LEP applicants?

For what this number is worth, the aggregate selection rate was 6.7%. I wouldn't read too much into this number.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:23 am

LazinessPerSe wrote:
target wrote:so does any one know how many get selected in the last navy board?

USN Report to ABA (LinkRemoved)

Page 25 wrote:The JAG Corps received 803 applications for 54 positions in 2012 (49 SP, 5 DAP, 3 LEP).


Can't find a breakdown of how many selected per SP board (or how many total student applications vs DAP/LEP). Additional information needed:
-How many total SP applicants? (per board? whole year?)
-How many 1st time SP applicants were selected vs. repeat SP applicants?
-How many total DAP/LEP applicants?

For what this number is worth, the aggregate selection rate was 6.7%. I wouldn't read too much into this number.



You probably won't be able to get the level of detail you are looking for. The JAG corps may not even track repeat v. first time applicants. Additionally, I think there is a bit of correlation v. causation mistake with respect to this fact. I do not think that applying multiple times increases your odds for that particular selection board. Much like if you play the lottery every day your chances of winning that particular lottery are the same as anyone else (provided you each buy one ticket etc). However, if you apply to 6 boards, you may stand a better chance of getting selected than applying to just one board but only because you essentially bought 6 lottery tickets rather than 1. The notion that the board would pass on an otherwise superior applicant simply because it is that applicant's first board is not grounded in reality.

erik_1717
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Re: Military Law

Postby erik_1717 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:47 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:
target wrote:so does any one know how many get selected in the last navy board?

USN Report to ABA (LinkRemoved)

Page 25 wrote:The JAG Corps received 803 applications for 54 positions in 2012 (49 SP, 5 DAP, 3 LEP).


Can't find a breakdown of how many selected per SP board (or how many total student applications vs DAP/LEP). Additional information needed:
-How many total SP applicants? (per board? whole year?)
-How many 1st time SP applicants were selected vs. repeat SP applicants?
-How many total DAP/LEP applicants?

For what this number is worth, the aggregate selection rate was 6.7%. I wouldn't read too much into this number.



You probably won't be able to get the level of detail you are looking for. The JAG corps may not even track repeat v. first time applicants. Additionally, I think there is a bit of correlation v. causation mistake with respect to this fact. I do not think that applying multiple times increases your odds for that particular selection board. Much like if you play the lottery every day your chances of winning that particular lottery are the same as anyone else (provided you each buy one ticket etc). However, if you apply to 6 boards, you may stand a better chance of getting selected than applying to just one board but only because you essentially bought 6 lottery tickets rather than 1. The notion that the board would pass on an otherwise superior applicant simply because it is that applicant's first board is not grounded in reality.


NavyJAG, I like your point and I'm sure it is well taken. I guess my question would be if you think the Board even takes note of an applicant applying multiple times? I had always figured that an applicant may be more attractive to the Board if he is applying multiple times because it shows perseverance. I figured this would be especially true if the applicant were able to improve his/her application each time. Do you think this has much bearing at all?

andythefir
Posts: 398
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Re: Military Law

Postby andythefir » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:12 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:
target wrote:so does any one know how many get selected in the last navy board?

USN Report to ABA (LinkRemoved)

Page 25 wrote:The JAG Corps received 803 applications for 54 positions in 2012 (49 SP, 5 DAP, 3 LEP).


Can't find a breakdown of how many selected per SP board (or how many total student applications vs DAP/LEP). Additional information needed:
-How many total SP applicants? (per board? whole year?)
-How many 1st time SP applicants were selected vs. repeat SP applicants?
-How many total DAP/LEP applicants?

For what this number is worth, the aggregate selection rate was 6.7%. I wouldn't read too much into this number.



You probably won't be able to get the level of detail you are looking for. The JAG corps may not even track repeat v. first time applicants. Additionally, I think there is a bit of correlation v. causation mistake with respect to this fact. I do not think that applying multiple times increases your odds for that particular selection board. Much like if you play the lottery every day your chances of winning that particular lottery are the same as anyone else (provided you each buy one ticket etc). However, if you apply to 6 boards, you may stand a better chance of getting selected than applying to just one board but only because you essentially bought 6 lottery tickets rather than 1. The notion that the board would pass on an otherwise superior applicant simply because it is that applicant's first board is not grounded in reality.


I will defer to someone who has direct experience but the Navy at an informational interview told me the opposite.

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:46 am

andythefir wrote:I will defer to someone who has direct experience but the Navy at an informational interview told me the opposite.


I was told the same thing at my structured interview and by some random JAG contacts. From the looks of it, multiple applications gives/appears to give a tiny bump in an otherwise dead heat between two candidates. Aside from that situation, I don't think it plays a major role in selection. FWIW, JAG Accessions related an anecdote that the numbers for the 3L Spring Board first-time applicants last year was a blood bath comparative to those who had applied multiple times at that point.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:01 am

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:44 am

LazinessPerSe wrote:I was told the same thing at my structured interview and by some random JAG contacts. From the looks of it, multiple applications gives/appears to give a tiny bump in an otherwise dead heat between two candidates. Aside from that situation, I don't think it plays a major role in selection. FWIW, JAG Accessions related an anecdote that the numbers for the 3L Spring Board first-time applicants last year was a blood bath comparative to those who had applied multiple times at that point.


I can confirm that I was told the same thing at my structured interview by a LCDR. However, I don't think he had ever sat on a board.

mlittle5
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Re: Military Law

Postby mlittle5 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:08 pm

Anyone have some insider info on when JARO plans to drop the Select list for Army Reserve Spring Board?

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:34 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:I was told the same thing at my structured interview and by some random JAG contacts. From the looks of it, multiple applications gives/appears to give a tiny bump in an otherwise dead heat between two candidates. Aside from that situation, I don't think it plays a major role in selection. FWIW, JAG Accessions related an anecdote that the numbers for the 3L Spring Board first-time applicants last year was a blood bath comparative to those who had applied multiple times at that point.


I can confirm that I was told the same thing at my structured interview by a LCDR. However, I don't think he had ever sat on a board.

Perhaps it's because applying to another board illustrates your desire to be a JAG. But if an initial application definitively illustrates your desire to join, then maybe the reapplication "bump" is nonexistent.

I'm just spouting off thoughts here. I don't think any of us have definitive knowledge on how the board selects. Especially since the board changes all the time. Anyway, it's always fun to speculate.

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:47 pm

Esquire wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:I was told the same thing at my structured interview and by some random JAG contacts. From the looks of it, multiple applications gives/appears to give a tiny bump in an otherwise dead heat between two candidates. Aside from that situation, I don't think it plays a major role in selection. FWIW, JAG Accessions related an anecdote that the numbers for the 3L Spring Board first-time applicants last year was a blood bath comparative to those who had applied multiple times at that point.


I can confirm that I was told the same thing at my structured interview by a LCDR. However, I don't think he had ever sat on a board.

Perhaps it's because applying to another board illustrates your desire to be a JAG. But if an initial application definitively illustrates your desire to join, then maybe the reapplication "bump" is nonexistent.

I'm just spouting off thoughts here. I don't think any of us have definitive knowledge on how the board selects. Especially since the board changes all the time. Anyway, it's always fun to speculate.


It was only a matter of time before the lawyers/judges in uniform convinced the Navy (+other branches) to give them a totality of the circumstances test for hiring. I miss the days of semi-predictable, formulaic accessions.

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hncsarge34
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Re: Military Law

Postby hncsarge34 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:54 pm

Does anyone have any insight or anecdotes about careers after serving in JAG? Without giving away too much personal information, I am already contracted to become a judge advocate after law school and I could not be happier with that decision. However, I remember at OCS that there were varying opinions on how long to stay in the service and how to best sell the JAG experience if/when it becomes time to re-enter the civilian world. Thoughts on this or any related matter would be very helpful. Thank you.

mlittle5
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Re: Military Law

Postby mlittle5 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:56 am

March Accessions Board for National Guard has posted. Congrats to the lucky 15!

--LinkRemoved--




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